Since when was this a thing?
Since when was this a thing?
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Shrouded daggers hits 3 mobs. Rapids only one. Keep in mind that shrouded daggers does not proc the ax bleed and rapid strikes does.
Check this thread for good amount of help, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393319/stam-sorc-help/p1
Right, but in single target fights, which skill provides higher dps? The arguments I've read on Shrouded Dagger seem to only be because it hits multiple targets.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
honestly, as a sorc, prolly just heavy attacking as a spammable and using rending slashs/blood craze will be the best dps. you get 11% more damage after all.
I tried using shrouded daggers instead as a spammable to weave heavy attacks with- it consistently did 3-4k less dps than rapid strikes single target. In any aoe situation id be using steel tornado over shrouded anyways. Shrouded is terrible.
Similar results using blood craze in its place and just heavy attack spamming - ended up being a dps loss in tests. I originally had blood craze in place of beast trap, but beast trap does slightly more damage and gives minor force boosting damage overall.
In situations where it really matters, I could drop expert hunter for crit potions and slot something else, but for most content that will just be an unnecessary waste of money.
Ill give the poison enchant on the bow a shot. Normally I wouldn't run crusher on a mainhand either but right now this character is mostly doing pug daily pledges and I can't count on other tanks to know their job.
Have you tried replacing expert hunter with Rending Slashes?
If you are using dawnbreajer as your ult, smiting is better. The extra damage it does and the knockdown is much better than the passive 5%.
@Lynx7386 Lover Mundus adds spell and weapon penetration. Lady adds resistance.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw could you elaborate on why Rapid Strikes is no longer a good spammable? Does Shrouded Daggers out-perform it even on single target?
Ok guess i was getting the two mixed up, never really used either. I'm not sure that the extra penetration from lover would outweight the 10%+ critical damage shadow is giving me right now though, especially since i'm already stacking a good amount of penetration.
Will do. I'm rank 9 and 9/10ths with fighters guild so dawnbreaker is right around the corner, I just need to suffer through endless PvP grinding to get caltrops. With those I think ill hit an acceptable level for most content.
@Lynx7386 Lover Mundus adds spell and weapon penetration. Lady adds resistance.
@Oreyn_Bearclaw could you elaborate on why Rapid Strikes is no longer a good spammable? Does Shrouded Daggers out-perform it even on single target?
To be quite honest with you, I don't have Caltrops on my StamSorc either, so I'm in the same boat of needing to suffer through the PvP grind for it. I also don't have his Alchemy maxed out, so he doesn't get the full benefit from weapon damage pots. Still parse an average of 32.5k on the skeleton dummy self buffed (without major fracture), though.
I understand that the skill and set ups may have changed since Morrowdind, but so have play styles. As you said, current stam rotations heavy weave, which provides a ton of sustain. I'm able to sustain my rotation (with Rapid Strikes) indefinitely purely because of the heavy-weave heavy (what a sentence!) play style.Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
@Illurian
Honestly, it comes down to rotation and sustain. The old meta was to use DW VMA weapons which give buffs to DOTs after rapid strikes. So rotations became, rapid, DOT, rapid, DOT, etc. A few things have changed since then.
One, sustain is way down causing us to need to heavy attack much more often. If you try to run the pre-morrowind rapid strikes rotation, you will not make it through a 5 minute trial fight without having to need to break the rotation and start heavy attacking. Your DOT downtime suffers, and your damage falls off a cliff at that point. Modern stam rotations build the HAs into the rotation, so you passively sustain pretty much infinitely as long as you dont die.
DKs, who have the most DOTs at their disposal, actually went away from a RS build even before morrowind. Ultimately, they found that more DOTs was better damage than fewer DOTs that were buffed by RS.
I'm not trying to compare Rapid Strikes with vMA dual wield to Shrouded Daggers with a monster set. I'm trying to compare Rapid Strikes with a monster set to Shrouded Daggers with a monster set. The gear set ups are identical. Without vMA dual weapons, you don't need to Rapid Strikes before every DoT. Does Shrouded Daggers out-parse Rapid Strikes as a spammable?Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Second, most people are running 1-2 more DOTS than they used to. Caltrops is now run by everyone instead of one person (used to not stack), and Deadly Cloak is required to survive for most end game trial content. What this means is that if you want to run all the possible DOTs, AND put a rapid strikes in front of all them, your rotation becomes too long and you end up with poor uptimes on your hardest hitting skills.
Modern stamina rotations (save NB) are very circular (8-10 skills and repeat). Typically, 4 back bar Skills, and 4-5 front bar skills. With 2-3 heavy attacks thrown in there (front bar only), you typically end up casting Endless hail (your Strongest DOT) a second or 2 at most after it expires. Throw in 5 rapid strikes on top of that rotation, and now your Hail (and other back bar DOT) uptime is falling off a cliff.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Lastly, lets compare the spammables. One is a single target, channel that most be used in melee range. The other is a ranged insta cast skill that hits 2 additional enemies, providing excellent cleave damage, and gives you weapon damage to boot (not that your really need it). Its a pretty short analysis to realize which is better. With a Daggers build, I dont need to touch my bars for AOE fights. Stam Sorcs with daggers do ungodly AOE damage. With a RS build, I need to make room for steel tornado for trash or add heavy fights.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
Sorry for double post.
You can grind caltrops in a few hours. On a stam sorc, just stack AOE and zerg surf for an evening.
Alchemy can be leveled in about 15 minutes. Just buy a stack each of White Cap and Blue Entoloma (will give a 2 trait potion/poison and are dirt cheap), and about 75 each of the first few tiers of either poison or potion solvent (doesnt matter which). Make potions until you can spend the next skill point in the tree, change your solvent level and repeat. Its the first thing I do on character once I see they have a handful of spare skill points to spend.
Your damage really isnt bad, but caltrops will certainly give you a few K more and better potion uptime is probably another 1-2k as well.
Thanks for your detailed response! I'll try to make my questions on your points more readable:
I understand that the skill and set ups may have changed since Morrowdind, but so have play styles. As you said, current stam rotations heavy weave, which provides a ton of sustain. I'm able to sustain my rotation (with Rapid Strikes) indefinitely purely because of the heavy-weave heavy (what a sentence!) play style.
I'm not trying to compare Rapid Strikes with vMA dual wield to Shrouded Daggers with a monster set. I'm trying to compare Rapid Strikes with a monster set to Shrouded Daggers with a monster set. The gear set ups are identical. Without vMA dual weapons, you don't need to Rapid Strikes before every DoT. Does Shrouded Daggers out-parse Rapid Strikes as a spammable?
See, the only advantage I'm seeing here from Shrouded Daggers is the multi-target hit. Range doesn't matter as you should be in melee range anyway, and the Major Brutality doesn't matter as you will be getting it from another source anyway (weapon damage pots or Critical Surge).
My query was for purely single target fights, does Shrouded Dagger out-parse Rapid Strikes? Same rotation, same gear, same build. Only difference is using each one as the spammable.
Thanks for the tips! I totally agree that I need to get caltrops and alchemy up, but I've just been so lazy.