Templar Repentance fix

chaz

Dear Zenimax,

I like to talk to you today about the Templar skill line that has Restoring Aura and it's morph Repentance. I built a stamina templar and use bow and a lot of stamima skills. However the proble is, and especially in PvP area's what I'm about to say should make sense to you. So, as you overpowered Dragon Knights and Sorcerers with their shield stacking abilities making them immortal and unkillable unless 4, 6, 8, or more players attack the one, (cuz your game is so unfair but thats how YOU like it), it's impossible to keep up with battles sometimes when someone comes by and takes what you earned.

Ok, so I will use a bow and skills like Lethal arrow, Poison injection and Binding Javelin. All stamina. Once I kill an enemy, someone comes along and uses repentance stealing my opportunity to replenish my stamina so I can move on to the next enemy.

So asking you to fix this in anyway you deem fit, so long as I and other stamplars get to use the skill and replenish the stamina lost. I can't tell you just how many times I have to go stealth somewhere and wait for my stam to regen because someone snuck in there that didn't even do battle and use up Repentance to take all the stamina resource.


Thanks.

Cage_Lizardman

Yep. Can't even use repentence on my own corpse after I get rezzed. It's completely useless in pvp and not on my bar.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I would like to say someone on the dev team cares. But it is pretty obvious by now that they don’t. They think it is fun and skillful if you have to fight others of your own class for resources. Well fun and skillful on Templars. For some reason the other classes don’t have this fun and exciting mechanic... it is almost like the know that this mechanic sucks but don’t care enough about Templars to change it. Nah I’m sure that isn’t it.

Jura23

When an ally uses repentance near you he restores your resources as well.

bottleofsyrup

Jura23 wrote: »

When an ally uses repentance near you he restores your resources as well.

Not since Morrowind.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Jura23 wrote: »

When an ally uses repentance near you he restores your resources as well.

Im just going to assume you have been away for awhile...

klowdy1

They need to remove the single drain mechanic. Everyone with the ability should be able to drain every enemy, even if at a reduced amount after the first person does, or don't go over your max stam, draining enemies for no reason. It never made sense if there were 20 dead enemies on the ground, someone needs 1k stam back, but they repent everyone, keeping others from getting anything. I don't even have this on my bars any more, because most of the time, its just a competition on who is faster at it, taking minds away from their job.

Jura23

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

When an ally uses repentance near you he restores your resources as well.

Im just going to assume you have been away for awhile...

I have.

Jura23

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

When an ally uses repentance near you he restores your resources as well.

Not since Morrowind.

Not even in dungeons? Oh well.

Jarryzzt

Err.......is that technically possible?

I mean - a mob dies. The game now generates a corpse (that lasts some time X, but this does not matter).

Having a single instance of draining - meaning, the first templar that drains "wins" - is relatively easy to implement. Drain happens, corpse remaining life set to 0 seconds (or "corpse expires" routine activates - however they actually do it). Done.

But allowing every player in the instance to have a shot at a drain? Now each corpse needs to keep a counter for each player that used the drain on it for the duration of its "life"? Because how else could it know that it isn't being drained twice by the same player? Or does the server have to send separate "corpse expires" signals to each client once a drain is used and maintain each corpse in different states?

Does this not sound like rather too much in terms of resources used?

Now, I do not propose to know exactly how to program a corpse/drain mechanic in a game, having never tried; the above is just my trying to think through the problem from a technical standpoint. However, at first blush it seems that the right question to ask is not "are they willing to do it" but rather "is it technically optimal to do it". Because at the end of the day, until everyone gets quantum computing there is a limit to what can realistically be done in these games feature-wise.

Just a thought.

srnm

The irony is that so many stamplars have dropped repentence that it is quite useful for those who still have it slotted!

Ep1kMalware

Jarryzzt wrote: »

Err.......is that technically possible?

I mean - a mob dies. The game now generates a corpse (that lasts some time X, but this does not matter).

Having a single instance of draining - meaning, the first templar that drains "wins" - is relatively easy to implement. Drain happens, corpse remaining life set to 0 seconds (or "corpse expires" routine activates - however they actually do it). Done.

But allowing every player in the instance to have a shot at a drain? Now each corpse needs to keep a counter for each player that used the drain on it for the duration of its "life"? Because how else could it know that it isn't being drained twice by the same player? Or does the server have to send separate "corpse expires" signals to each client once a drain is used and maintain each corpse in different states?

Does this not sound like rather too much in terms of resources used?

Now, I do not propose to know exactly how to program a corpse/drain mechanic in a game, having never tried; the above is just my trying to think through the problem from a technical standpoint. However, at first blush it seems that the right question to ask is not "are they willing to do it" but rather "is it technically optimal to do it". Because at the end of the day, until everyone gets quantum computing there is a limit to what can realistically be done in these games feature-wise.

Just a thought.

They pretty much have that system with drops. It's not like onlt 1 person gets a drop. It's not that hard to fix.

Ratzkifal

That is something that is bothering me too (templar tank and annoyed about stamplar dps taking my stamina).
There is something called self-synergy. Dragonknights have great self synergy. They amplify all their fire damage. The more DKs you have, the better. Sorcs don't have as much self-synergy as DKs but more of them is still great. magTemplars have self-synergy too as 4 jesus beams execute faster than just one. Warden, amazing self-synergy (last time I checked) just as DK. ..... Stamplar.. negative self-synergy. The more you have, the worse your result. Two skills that become useless if another stamplar has it.

Ep1kMalware

Ratzkifal wrote: »

That is something that is bothering me too (templar tank and annoyed about stamplar dps taking my stamina).
There is something called self-synergy. Dragonknights have great self synergy. They amplify all their fire damage. The more DKs you have, the better. Sorcs don't have as much self-synergy as DKs but more of them is still great. magTemplars have self-synergy too as 4 jesus beams execute faster than just one. Warden, amazing self-synergy (last time I checked) just as DK. ..... Stamplar.. negative self-synergy. The more you have, the worse your result. Two skills that become useless if another stamplar has it.

Agree, it worked fine until morrowind. Now I just kick other templars from my groups, especially tanks. They just run up and spam it uselessly while you're burning trash. THEY DON'T EVEN NEED IT GUH. The most useful skill temptanks have is puncture and lightning wall. Potl even. 2 of those are magica abilities >.> -.-' I'd just remorph it amd take the 30% recovery even but they changed that to some mag skill that doesn't even work.

They really need make this skill more cooperative.

Kolzki

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

FloppyTouch

Dks shield stack???

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Idinuse

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Well if other classes are viable healers, then Templars need to be made viable DPS too and not miles behind in the DPS race. And have move-ability through other means than Mist Form or Speed pots.

Girl_Number8

That's called getting the middle finger....Didn't you know before rolling a tempy that they are not one of the two favorite classes?

Baconlad

Repentance is a staple skill for meta stamplars.

If you don't get to use repentance after every kill kill:
- you're fighting at range, which is not an optimal position for stamplar. Your decision to be at range. Not knocking your playstyle.
- you're playing with another stamplar
- you're playing with too many other friendlies. Spread out, become more small team oriented
- learn to hit repentance faster. On my stamplar I don't remember to hit it. And don't get to use the damn skill cause I'm so focused on the next target.
I love ranged stamplar, it's incredibly fun to bow main damage in PVP, but it's not a meta build and you can't expect it to perform like meta playstyle. Don't change ur playstyle, but understand that the skill is where it's at for a reason. Players were getting too much awesome from it in big groups. I think perhaps they should remove the single corpse, single use aspect of it though. Even if they don't, a stamplar running a meta build without repentance is not doing something right

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Idinuse wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Well if other classes are viable healers, then Templars need to be made viable DPS too and not miles behind in the DPS race. And have move-ability through other means than Mist Form or Speed pots.

Templars are good DPS. They easily get over 35k dps. They are also a stand your ground, protect your house kind of class. Just like dks. Not sure how think temps are not viable dps. But group Stam return with out doing a thing would make them better healers. Full stop.

Kolzki

Ok, fair point that it would once again be useful to healers if there wasn’t a stamplar in the group. I think this is more an issue with there being no source of stamina support in other classes other than orbs.

As a Templar tank player I can’t rely on repentance for stamina regen, particularly if there’s a stamplar in the group. It’s hard to protect my house with an empty stamina bar.

Joy_Division

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Is this a joke?

DK healers inc. You want to nerf anything that makes a class distinctive and worth using in the first place so some other overnerfed class can under-perform in filling a role it's ill suited for. Nice.

Besides, the most efficient "healer" in the vast majority of ESO's content is a DPS sorcerer with Twilight Matriarch. How's that for all of ZoS's "hard work"?

mandricus

*cough*
About 4 months ago, I proposed this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/375219/repentance-change-proposal/

To me, still looks the easiest and most obvious thing to do.

Idinuse

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Well if other classes are viable healers, then Templars need to be made viable DPS too and not miles behind in the DPS race. And have move-ability through other means than Mist Form or Speed pots.

Templars are good DPS. They easily get over 35k dps. They are also a stand your ground, protect your house kind of class. Just like dks. Not sure how think temps are not viable dps. But group Stam return with out doing a thing would make them better healers. Full stop.

And other classes would still be good healing too. See the connection there?

idk

I'd say OP needs to be faster. Early bird gets the worm. Faster Templars get the stam and heal.

OP really seems to be complaining because others react faster. Probably because they came to understand there are others using repentance.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Is this a joke?

DK healers inc. You want to nerf anything that makes a class distinctive and worth using in the first place so some other overnerfed class can under-perform in filling a role it's ill suited for. Nice.

Besides, the most efficient "healer" in the vast majority of ESO's content is a DPS sorcerer with Twilight Matriarch. How's that for all of ZoS's "hard work"?

*triggering intensifies* I DO NOT want to nerf anything, i have been against all the changes that ZOS has done to the temp class, from putting shards on the same cool down as orbs to removing the stun from shards to the nerf after nerf of radiant destruction. i started after they took away blinding flashes but i would love to see that in the game too, so dont be confuse me playing devil's advocate with actually defending the changes ZOS has made. yes it is nice that other classes are getting used as healers more now but it came at the cost of nerfing the crap out of my main class.

that said, i just want to be able to have more then one stam based templar in the group, i have been kicked from a group with another stamplar as my stamplar more time then i think ought to happen, simply because the other stamplar didn't want to share ort simply can't. so the easiest way is to make it so if you both have repentance slotted, you both get stam. simple. does not stop other healer from being useful and makes it okay to have more then one stamplar in the group.

lastly, what does "DK healers inc" mean?

Raideen

No such thing as balance. Its all about the crowns now.

Joy_Division

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

Keep it at one repentance per corpse. Reintroduce the stamina return for allies. Problem solved.

Except for Templar tanks in boss fights without repentable adds. They’re still screwed.

And you would instantly undo all the work zos has done to make all other class worth using as a healer. That one change would make Templar healers miles ahead of other healers, even further then they are.

You have to make it so it only returns Stam to other templars. That is it.

Is this a joke?

DK healers inc. You want to nerf anything that makes a class distinctive and worth using in the first place so some other overnerfed class can under-perform in filling a role it's ill suited for. Nice.

Besides, the most efficient "healer" in the vast majority of ESO's content is a DPS sorcerer with Twilight Matriarch. How's that for all of ZoS's "hard work"?

*triggering intensifies* I DO NOT want to nerf anything, i have been against all the changes that ZOS has done to the temp class, from putting shards on the same cool down as orbs to removing the stun from shards to the nerf after nerf of radiant destruction. i started after they took away blinding flashes but i would love to see that in the game too, so dont be confuse me playing devil's advocate with actually defending the changes ZOS has made. yes it is nice that other classes are getting used as healers more now but it came at the cost of nerfing the crap out of my main class.

that said, i just want to be able to have more then one stam based templar in the group, i have been kicked from a group with another stamplar as my stamplar more time then i think ought to happen, simply because the other stamplar didn't want to share ort simply can't. so the easiest way is to make it so if you both have repentance slotted, you both get stam. simple. does not stop other healer from being useful and makes it okay to have more then one stamplar in the group.

lastly, what does "DK healers inc" mean?

You supported a heavy nerf ZoS implemented. How is that playing Devil's advocate?

You see the result yourself of Zos"s "hard work" - templars in the same group arguing who gets to repent corpses. It is beyond dumb. In no way should that nerf ever been supported, let alone even insinuated as having a beneficial effect on the game, no matter how noble the goal was.

It's not so simple as having the templar get stam simply for having it slotted. ZoS's coding pretty much means a skill has to be on your active bar to count, which means double baring a skill that does nothing or having to waste a global cooldown to use a skill that does nothing if we're going to go the "long buff" route ala Siphoning strikes or Inferno.

And that leaves aside the very real question of what exactly is wrong with having a support skill theat rewards a groups' success? Repentance was one of the best abilities in the game because it gave a class the means to provide a unique reward for a group that defeats their opponents; this is an excellent mechanic that ought to be encouraged and its removal and others like it have turned Cyrodiil into a Zergfest, where numbers rule all.

As far as no other class being able to do this, too bad. Tough. Every class ought to be able to provide something unqiue and desirable otherwise there is zero reason to play such a class unless it's BiS. Your stamplar keeps getting kicked from groups because a stam DK will beat the DPS you provide and since you offer nothing the group can get elsewhere, take a hike.

You make other class healers desirable by providing them with the means to offer something to a group that a templar can't.

SirDopey

Slotting Repentance should give you a buff.

Casting Repentance will consume a corpse and return resources to all allies with x meters that have Repentance buff active.

Problem solved. Only templars get the resource return and it can only happen once.

Ep1kMalware

Lets make equal class changes.

Dks when they use ulti, all other dks get their ult drained as well
Sorcs when dark deal is cast all other sorcs loose life
Warden - bull netch leaches resources from closest teamates.

Engine guardian - drains resources from allies to replenish your own.
Molag kena - gain weapon damage for 5 seconds by stealing strength from closest ally.

Destro staff passive that returns magica on kills restores magicka from the magic pool of players that did not get the kill.

These changes will keep other classes in line with templars.