End Game PVE Progression nonexistent?

rophez_ESO

I was playing the new dungeons last night when I started to remember why I have left this game off and on since beta: Nothing is really new as far as my character's progression goes. I mean the dungeons have nice new art and they're fun to run a few times as you gain the achievements, but achievements don't really make my character any better. The sets in ever new DLC are interesting, but really lateral progression at best compared to old standbys.

In fact, my character hasn't gained in power at all since day 1. If you consider the nerfs that have come in to ulti gen, blocking, etc., he's arguably less powerful than release day, even if you take into account champion points. I think that was one of the reasons for my first departure around the 1 year anniversary - I remember realizing that they were nerfing the hell out of us and giving us the ability to slowly gain back some of our power via grinding champion points. Yes, if you're guessing, my main is a DK, but I have at least 1 of every class maxed out.

I'm not big on the trialss, so I don't do them over and over, but even the people who do, and get all gold trial gear, really can't say they are much more powerful than they were a year or two ago. I mean I don't have much in the way of raid sets and I can parse 40k solo on a dummy. VMA was kind of a fun challenge at first, but it's fairly trivial to me after completing it dozens of times. And, really, only a couple of items out of there are considered "BIS" anymore.

Sorry, I'm just rambling about end game content with regard to character progression, and it just doesn't seem like there is any. The content seems more geared toward adding new places with new stories. That's cool for some people, but really it doesn't compete with single player games with regard to immersion and story. My 4 man blasted through the new content last night, and I can't honestly say what the quests were even about. So if that's your thing, that's cool, but my hook into online RPGs, is character progression, not stories that really CAN'T effect the world, because it's multi player.

I know, I know, champion points - yeah, sorry, I've been at cap a few days after each update, and really, there's nothing exciting between around 300 and 720. Anyway, there's nothing on the market right now, that I'm aware of, to run off to, but I sure wish ZOS would add some new vertical progression for characters to work on.

Some ideas:
*Weapons (artifacts) that can gain levels and abilities
*Actual abilities that are unlocked by climbing certain trees in the champion constellations - maybe even requiring a combo of branches from multiple trees.
*Spell crafting (like was promised to be in development a couple years ago before some key devs got laid off)
*Long quests/groups of quests that unlock new skills/stat boosts
*Passive buffs granted for achievements, like after killing 1000 spiders maybe you get +3% damage vs spiders

Help me out here - give ZOS some ideas for end game vertical progression!

Corrinos

I think a lot of this has to do with ZOS' attempt to appeal to everyone (e.g. One Tamriel, #playyourway, attempting to create a classless game, diverging away from MMO trinity (and failing), etc.), but ultimately shunting away any kind of true differentiation or progression in the name of some kind of ersatz equality. Simply, when you try and appeal to everyone, you really end up appealing to no one.

TESO in a lot of ways was promised to be a sort of spiritual successor to DAoC (especially given that is Matt Firor's roots), but they've completely sh** the bed in terms of the only real form of perpetual endgame; PvP. PvP in its current form is a real joke (and in true ZOS fashion, they've tried to further appeal to everyone with the introduction of Battlegrounds) and anyone who attempts to argue otherwise really doesn't know what they're talking about - or has never been exposed to DAoC.

PvE endgame content is definitely harder to do, because it doesn't have the in-built dynamism that player-centric content does, like PvP, but adding a few dungeons or raids every few months certainly shouldn't be the extent of it.

In terms of character progression, the Veteran rank system was meant to be a stopgap, but ended up being a shoehorn into the Champion system, which is not really the kind of real character progression a game like TESO should have. I think your list is a good place to start and I hope @ZOS_GinaBruno and others take note.

Thanks for the great post!

erickthe

The true end game is outfits and housing.

Corrinos

erickthe wrote: »

The true end game is outfits and housing.

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek, but <cringe> ZOS is about 10+ years behind the curve on that one, too. LotRO had a vastly superior housing system IMHO.

erickthe

Corrinos wrote: »

erickthe wrote: »

The true end game is outfits and housing.

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek, but <cringe> ZOS is about 10+ years behind the curve on that one, too. LotRO had a vastly superior housing system IMHO.

Actually I'm serious. I don't think there's anything wrong with lack of perpetual vertical progression and taking time off from the game sometimes.

I am curious about the LotRO housing though. What's it like?

Corrinos

erickthe wrote: »

Corrinos wrote: »

erickthe wrote: »

The true end game is outfits and housing.

I know you're being tongue-in-cheek, but <cringe> ZOS is about 10+ years behind the curve on that one, too. LotRO had a vastly superior housing system IMHO.

Actually I'm serious. I don't think there's anything wrong with lack of perpetual vertical progression and taking time off from the game sometimes.

I am curious about the LotRO housing though. What's it like?

I agree, housing and cosmetics can be *one* way to progress your character, but before the addition of storage, what was the real incentive to own a house? Dummies and some convenience items already located in world (that generally cost real money to obtain?)

RE: LotRO: Just speaking from the top of my head:

1. Storage chests available from Day 1 (and didn't cost real money, i.e. crowns)
2. Ability to customize music in your house
3. Variety of wallpapers
3. Each house was in a mini zone (think neighborhood) - you could physically visit other people's houses, see their yards, etc. without porting to instances
4. I'm also fairly certain your pets would roam around your house, too - instead of the semi-animated statues that we currently have.

VaranisArano

You wanted character progression, you wanted to play before One Tamriel.

You started out as a level 1 scrub fresh from Mannimarco's knife and grew into a Vet 16 god who could one-shot everything in lower level zones with a light attack. Anything content that gave you trouble was easily solved by leveling up a couple times and then coming back and wrecking everything.

Of course, there were downsides too.
An artificial miss change that kept you from hitting anything 5 levels above you.
Getting zero exp from anything 5 levels above or below you.
Outleveling content that was stuck at a particular level, so you couldn't do the DLC or else you'd outlevel base game content.
Everything was railroaded and had to be completed in a certain order.
Grouping with other people to far from your level messed with exp gain and the content was wildly different in difficulty.

But boy, did we have a sense of progression!

(I don't actually miss pre-One Tamriel ESO all that much. I'm glad I experienced it, but I prefer thecurrent battle-leveled open world to the limited, railroaded zones of early ESO.)

Doctordarkspawn

There basicly is no progression. Once you've done the content, you've done it. There is no mythic.

And part of the problem is the devs consistant inability to please PVE players at a content level. Even if it isn't the content itself, the gameplay itself just rubs people the wrong way. Why? Because it's far more complicated and based on spinning plates, then any other MMO I've ever played.

They just dont know what their doing in a PVE context. The content designer does (The dungeon designer is very good at his job, baring some exeptions. Endgame mazzatun fight? Really?), but the combat design does not give him much to work with.

So until that changes expect the same level of progression.

ccfeeling

Follow the mechanics, no surprises

Didgerion

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I was playing the new dungeons last night when I started to remember why I have left this game off and on since beta: Nothing is really new as far as my character's progression goes. I mean the dungeons have nice new art and they're fun to run a few times as you gain the achievements, but achievements don't really make my character any better. The sets in ever new DLC are interesting, but really lateral progression at best compared to old standbys.

In fact, my character hasn't gained in power at all since day 1. If you consider the nerfs that have come in to ulti gen, blocking, etc., he's arguably less powerful than release day, even if you take into account champion points. I think that was one of the reasons for my first departure around the 1 year anniversary - I remember realizing that they were nerfing the hell out of us and giving us the ability to slowly gain back some of our power via grinding champion points. Yes, if you're guessing, my main is a DK, but I have at least 1 of every class maxed out.

I'm not big on the trialss, so I don't do them over and over, but even the people who do, and get all gold trial gear, really can't say they are much more powerful than they were a year or two ago. I mean I don't have much in the way of raid sets and I can parse 40k solo on a dummy. VMA was kind of a fun challenge at first, but it's fairly trivial to me after completing it dozens of times. And, really, only a couple of items out of there are considered "BIS" anymore.

Sorry, I'm just rambling about end game content with regard to character progression, and it just doesn't seem like there is any. The content seems more geared toward adding new places with new stories. That's cool for some people, but really it doesn't compete with single player games with regard to immersion and story. My 4 man blasted through the new content last night, and I can't honestly say what the quests were even about. So if that's your thing, that's cool, but my hook into online RPGs, is character progression, not stories that really CAN'T effect the world, because it's multi player.

I know, I know, champion points - yeah, sorry, I've been at cap a few days after each update, and really, there's nothing exciting between around 300 and 720. Anyway, there's nothing on the market right now, that I'm aware of, to run off to, but I sure wish ZOS would add some new vertical progression for characters to work on.

Some ideas:
*Weapons (artifacts) that can gain levels and abilities
*Actual abilities that are unlocked by climbing certain trees in the champion constellations - maybe even requiring a combo of branches from multiple trees.
*Spell crafting (like was promised to be in development a couple years ago before some key devs got laid off)
*Long quests/groups of quests that unlock new skills/stat boosts
*Passive buffs granted for achievements, like after killing 1000 spiders maybe you get +3% damage vs spiders

Help me out here - give ZOS some ideas for end game vertical progression!

Looks like you want a linear progression system:
You play 100 hours you have 1000 power
You play 200 hours you have 1500 power
You play 300 hours you have 2000 power
And the form you suggest to implement it being that artifacts or new constellations or whatever else - it does not matter - it will be a boring system - and a grindy one!

The current system is quite good. It is always adjusted - the BIS items are not bis in few months - you look to bypass new nerfs and take advantage of new buffs.
This system is also noob friendlyish too - which helps keeping population up and fresh.

And as you mentioned you left the game for 1 year and you still are able to do the end game content - that's the beauty of it!
Imagine if you come back to the game and have to 1-year grind to be competitive - I don't think you will like that!

Vermintide

Honest question here, I'm not baiting or anything: How long do you expect this "progression" to go on? Do you just want it to be a perpetual treadmill? Because otherwise, you have to reach "the top" sometime, right?

The best I can see, other games that offer more PVE longevity are really just making you do the same thing over and over for artificially padded out rewards. The more new "progression" they add, the more you crave once you reach the end of that too.

Corrinos

Vermintide wrote: »

Honest question here, I'm not baiting or anything: How long do you expect this "progression" to go on? Do you just want it to be a perpetual treadmill? Because otherwise, you have to reach "the top" sometime, right?

The best I can see, other games that offer more PVE longevity are really just making you do the same thing over and over for artificially padded out rewards. The more new "progression" they add, the more you crave once you reach the end of that too.

I think the initial list was a good start. It beats grinding useless achievement points for some useless title and a probably useless dye, amirite?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Honestly if you like feeling like you are getting stronger and progressing. This is not the game for you.

klowdy1

It would be nice to have some sort system beside CP. Something that boosts abilities, or maybe skill lines for only 50s. Something to engage me outside of zone stories.

Tannus15

All MMO's have a point where there is no more "end game progression".

You're literally saying "now that i've done all the things there are no more things".
It's true that this game doesn't artificially deliver "progression" every 12 months with an expansion which raises the level cap, making all your gear obsolete and keeping the "end game" gear list incredibly small, and it's a better game for it.

klowdy1

Tannus15 wrote: »

All MMO's have a point where there is no more "end game progression".

You're literally saying "now that i've done all the things there are no more things".
It's true that this game doesn't artificially deliver "progression" every 12 months with an expansion which raises the level cap, making all your gear obsolete and keeping the "end game" gear list incredibly small, and it's a better game for it.

They add new gear with every DLC, and crafted gear would still be there. I don't see the difference other than not gaining levels. I would love to have some new gear to go after with at least one DLC. What is the point of making all these new sets if they aren't as good as crafted stuff at least some of the time. You don't have to raise the level cap to continue improving your character. A system for upgrading abilities springs to mind.

Runefang

WoW's progression model is just artificial though, you only ever get stronger vs old content but not against the relevant (i.e. latest) content. All MMO's with a similar model have the same approach, if you actually allowed players to gain power vs relevant content everybody would get bored.

Narvuntien

Look I am one of those not really MMO players that just aren't interested in just grinding forever.

I like PVP
I like that trials give me more of a challenge and something to strive for, its great to have goals.

The thing is I have been wearing the same gear and using the same skills for half a year now I cannot improve my dps above 22K (solo buffed on a dummy). So I have no progression, I cannot get past this dps wall.

Just do maelstrom (over and over) or get trials gear.. but I am stuck at 22K dps I can't do that vet content, I don't have enough dps.

I have run into the limits of my skill and cannot progress. .

Karm1cOne

Narvuntien wrote: »

Look I am one of those not really MMO players that just aren't interested in just grinding forever.

I like PVP
I like that trials give me more of a challenge and something to strive for, its great to have goals.

The thing is I have been wearing the same gear and using the same skills for half a year now I cannot improve my dps above 22K (solo buffed on a dummy). So I have no progression, I cannot get past this dps wall.

Just do maelstrom (over and over) or get trials gear.. but I am stuck at 22K dps I can't do that vet content, I don't have enough dps.

I have run into the limits of my skill and cannot progress. .

Honestly, 22k should get you through most content with any competent group, barring a few hardmodes, and maybe vet trials.

Runefang

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Look I am one of those not really MMO players that just aren't interested in just grinding forever.

I like PVP
I like that trials give me more of a challenge and something to strive for, its great to have goals.

The thing is I have been wearing the same gear and using the same skills for half a year now I cannot improve my dps above 22K (solo buffed on a dummy). So I have no progression, I cannot get past this dps wall.

Just do maelstrom (over and over) or get trials gear.. but I am stuck at 22K dps I can't do that vet content, I don't have enough dps.

I have run into the limits of my skill and cannot progress. .

Honestly, 22k should get you through most content with any competent group, barring a few hardmodes, and maybe vet trials.

Pretty much this 22k is still better than average and sufficient for non-dlc vet dungeons. It's low for vet trials though so you'll be carried a little to a lot if you do those.

Anotherone773

I like the concept of One tamriel. Its a great starting point, but it also hinders progression severely. Instead of beating the dead horse of One Tamriel further into oblivion, they need to create a hybrid system. Leave One Tamriel for current content, switch CP back to levels, and all new content needs to be level based. When you enter One Tamriel zones you are leveled down to the max level of One Tamriel. Everywhere else, you are whatever level you are at.

Every game has progression, but this one. They tried to reinvent the wheel and made it oval. The wheel doesnt need reinventing, it just needs to be done right. Horizontal progression gets boring after awhile and achieves just dont cut it for most people. An achieve, in my opinion, is just something to stroke you ego with. Its like running on a treadmill and then patting yourself on the back because you didnt fall off. You expended a lot of energy running, but went no where.

ESO is basically farmville with combat. Its a social, RP game that you occasionally whack something to death in because it was standing on the flowers you want to pick for one of your 874 houses. Give it another 5 years and we can change the name to Extreme Housing Online because thats all there will be in the end game. Bosses will drop furniture because everyone stopped caring about another set of gear that isnt really any different than the set they got on. PVP will be known as the Deco Wars. Instead of fighting, it will be a contest to see who decorate a house properly the fastest. Trials will no longer be about killing mobs and raid style bosses. Instead, it will be a fashion show.Who can design the best spring costume with the trendiest color scheme?

Corrinos

Runefang wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Look I am one of those not really MMO players that just aren't interested in just grinding forever.

I like PVP
I like that trials give me more of a challenge and something to strive for, its great to have goals.

The thing is I have been wearing the same gear and using the same skills for half a year now I cannot improve my dps above 22K (solo buffed on a dummy). So I have no progression, I cannot get past this dps wall.

Just do maelstrom (over and over) or get trials gear.. but I am stuck at 22K dps I can't do that vet content, I don't have enough dps.

I have run into the limits of my skill and cannot progress. .

Honestly, 22k should get you through most content with any competent group, barring a few hardmodes, and maybe vet trials.

Pretty much this 22k is still better than average and sufficient for non-dlc vet dungeons. It's low for vet trials though so you'll be carried a little to a lot if you do those.

Doing non-DLC dungeons repeatedly with sub-par dps isn't progression.

SquareSausage

22k dps at max cp is a L2P issue and nothing really to do with progression tbh.

Narvuntien

SquareSausage wrote: »

22k dps at max cp is a L2P issue and nothing really to do with progression tbh.

But there is no way to learn to play in game that is my point. I crafted and bought a pair of good sets, I use a nice buff drink and I progressed to max cp, at least I was a couple of days ago but the DLC pushed it away again.

If the game had a nice progression curve instead of slamming into a brick wall my dps would increase as I got better instead I am stuck without a way to improve.

There is this gap between the end of the skill you can reach and the skills you need to complete in end game vet content.

barbarian340

this is a huge reason i leave mmos...progression to the endgame is fun, but once u max out, there is no longer the feeling of working toward something, and that rewarding feeling when u get it

SquareSausage

Narvuntien wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

22k dps at max cp is a L2P issue and nothing really to do with progression tbh.

But there is no way to learn to play in game that is my point. I crafted and bought a pair of good sets, I use a nice buff drink and I progressed to max cp, at least I was a couple of days ago but the DLC pushed it away again.

If the game had a nice progression curve instead of slamming into a brick wall my dps would increase as I got better instead I am stuck without a way to improve.

There is this gap between the end of the skill you can reach and the skills you need to complete in end game vet content.

I disagree, probably close to 100% of people learn to imporove their dps on a dummy these days, this is where you can practice your rotation.

If your sets are good, your stats are good, your CP is good and you are debuffing the dummy with major fracture/breach etc then it is a rotation issue, giving everyone more raw stats would just widen the gap between yourself and the top.

You can find builds on youtube that showcase their rotations, thats how you will improve your dps if as you say everything else is in check.

zaria

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I like the concept of One tamriel. Its a great starting point, but it also hinders progression severely. Instead of beating the dead horse of One Tamriel further into oblivion, they need to create a hybrid system. Leave One Tamriel for current content, switch CP back to levels, and all new content needs to be level based. When you enter One Tamriel zones you are leveled down to the max level of One Tamriel. Everywhere else, you are whatever level you are at.

Every game has progression, but this one. They tried to reinvent the wheel and made it oval. The wheel doesnt need reinventing, it just needs to be done right. Horizontal progression gets boring after awhile and achieves just dont cut it for most people. An achieve, in my opinion, is just something to stroke you ego with. Its like running on a treadmill and then patting yourself on the back because you didnt fall off. You expended a lot of energy running, but went no where.

ESO is basically farmville with combat. Its a social, RP game that you occasionally whack something to death in because it was standing on the flowers you want to pick for one of your 874 houses. Give it another 5 years and we can change the name to Extreme Housing Online because thats all there will be in the end game. Bosses will drop furniture because everyone stopped caring about another set of gear that isnt really any different than the set they got on. PVP will be known as the Deco Wars. Instead of fighting, it will be a contest to see who decorate a house properly the fastest. Trials will no longer be about killing mobs and raid style bosses. Instead, it will be a fashion show.Who can design the best spring costume with the trendiest color scheme?

WOW is gear level based, you tend to have one or two relevant sets for class at the gear level you are at.
You can grind dungeons to get raid level gear. At least that was how it was back then I played.
Then they added new tires and then an new expansion.

ESO is set based, dungeons tend to have 3 sets one in each weight and an monster set.
Different sets has different benefits, yes some are bad and some are good but its lots of variation.
I don't see how your idea should work at all.
Yes you could go back to how it was during veteran levels, group content is scaled to leader, from time to time you get an new level who you grinded asap then get mostly the same sets of the new level.
Yes that sounds fun

They could not do the WOW system releasing expansions with new series of dungeons and new sets, ESO is to grapical complex and fully voiced making it way to much work to do this.

Elijah_Crow

There is linear progression for character strength in the game, however it appears you are on the top 1%. The content is being designed for more of the average player to progress.

What % of players can't hit 40K dps on a dummy? I've been playing since launch and I'm still getting better and better on my main, but I still haven't hit that.

Datolite

Corrinos wrote: »

I think a lot of this has to do with ZOS' attempt to appeal to everyone (e.g. One Tamriel, #playyourway, attempting to create a classless game, diverging away from MMO trinity (and failing), etc.)

They never tried to do away with the trinity. They even have roles clearly defined in the group window and armor classes/skills and sets designed for each role.

Facefister

rophez_ESO wrote: »

I was playing the new dungeons last night when I started to remember why I have left this game off and on since beta: Nothing is really new as far as my character's progression goes. I mean the dungeons have nice new art and they're fun to run a few times as you gain the achievements, but achievements don't really make my character any better. The sets in ever new DLC are interesting, but really lateral progression at best compared to old standbys.

In fact, my character hasn't gained in power at all since day 1. If you consider the nerfs that have come in to ulti gen, blocking, etc., he's arguably less powerful than release day, even if you take into account champion points. I think that was one of the reasons for my first departure around the 1 year anniversary - I remember realizing that they were nerfing the hell out of us and giving us the ability to slowly gain back some of our power via grinding champion points. Yes, if you're guessing, my main is a DK, but I have at least 1 of every class maxed out.

I'm not big on the trialss, so I don't do them over and over, but even the people who do, and get all gold trial gear, really can't say they are much more powerful than they were a year or two ago. I mean I don't have much in the way of raid sets and I can parse 40k solo on a dummy. VMA was kind of a fun challenge at first, but it's fairly trivial to me after completing it dozens of times. And, really, only a couple of items out of there are considered "BIS" anymore.

Sorry, I'm just rambling about end game content with regard to character progression, and it just doesn't seem like there is any. The content seems more geared toward adding new places with new stories. That's cool for some people, but really it doesn't compete with single player games with regard to immersion and story. My 4 man blasted through the new content last night, and I can't honestly say what the quests were even about. So if that's your thing, that's cool, but my hook into online RPGs, is character progression, not stories that really CAN'T effect the world, because it's multi player.

I know, I know, champion points - yeah, sorry, I've been at cap a few days after each update, and really, there's nothing exciting between around 300 and 720. Anyway, there's nothing on the market right now, that I'm aware of, to run off to, but I sure wish ZOS would add some new vertical progression for characters to work on.

Some ideas:
*Weapons (artifacts) that can gain levels and abilities
*Actual abilities that are unlocked by climbing certain trees in the champion constellations - maybe even requiring a combo of branches from multiple trees.
*Spell crafting (like was promised to be in development a couple years ago before some key devs got laid off)
*Long quests/groups of quests that unlock new skills/stat boosts
*Passive buffs granted for achievements, like after killing 1000 spiders maybe you get +3% damage vs spiders

Help me out here - give ZOS some ideas for end game vertical progression!

If you want endgame progression, go play WoW, its better there. Personally I enjoy the laid back attitude of ESO: no raid/dungeon IDs, no weekly gear lock, viable overworld and dungeon loot.

Saturn

PvE Endgame isn't non-existent, but, it is a tiny fraction of the game's population, and yes it's mostly about re-running tired content over and over, although there are challenges in obtaining the HM completions (and associated achievements) when new trials come out, which isn't something to scoff at. Though as you say, there is very little that's enticing about doing trials as most of the BiS gear for any given class is usually obtainable without having to even enter them, with a few exceptions.

While I don't wish for a progression system like in BDO, I do also wish there were some way to get stronger, as for example legendary weapons, similar to WoW maybe, but I also wish they would actually spend some time talking to the endgame players and figure out what kind of sets would be good. I don't think it's unfair to bar the best gear behind the hardest content, but for some reason that doesn't seem to be something ZOS concerns themselves with. In fact it's quite obvious they only cater to their main demographic, the casual players.

If they actually cared about making endgame great they would spend more time on the trials, and they would also have added a lot more, as opposed to the 6 that have been added since the release in 2014, which, not to mention, were 3 in 2014, none in 2015, 1 in 2016, and 2 in 2017. Very few dungeons have been added as well, and they are only added 2 at a time. Compare ESO's content additions over the course of nearly four years with other MMOs and you'll see the problem.

When you look at the PvP scene you will see a similar pattern of neglect, or rather, a worse pattern. The bread and butter of ESO are its quests, and the vast majority of content additions have been this kind of content. This wouldn't be so bad if we were talking about a singleplayer game, but for an MMO that's a serious lack of foresight, as this kind of content has little to no replayability.

I like a lot of the things about ESO, like the combat, the visuals and so on, and I think if they actually focused on the endgame, both PvE and PvP, they could actually make this an amazing MMO, instead of if being what it is. Unfortunately ZOS has made themselves a stable income based on casual players, who want everything immediately, and Crown Store whales, who buy enough crown crates to obtain every item available, so they would likely not take the necessary steps to ensure the endgame got any better as it would mean not catering to their main target demographic, and therefore would initially lose them revenue, before they could gather a larger playerbase interested in endgame.

I seriously doubt much will change about the way the game is handled, because I've seen a hundred threads like this since launch, and they still haven't budged.