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Question about my Argonian's name

Kierro
Kierro
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I'm not real sure where to put this, but his name is Spells-In-Shadows. However, I've seen Argonians with "in" in their names lowercased as well "In" Why? I want Spells to be lore friendly but also proper spelling.
  • Ilsabet
    Ilsabet
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    As someone who is not an expert in Argonian nomenclature and has not taken the time to consult the internet, I'd say it's just a matter of balancing proper English grammar rules with what looks good as a name. I named an Argonian alt Tries-Not-to-Die and then decided that capitalizing each word looked better as a proper name. So I remade him and went with Tries-Not-To-Die. If Spells-In-Shadows looks better to you, then I'd say your Argonian's name can be whatever works for him (and you).

    I do note that there is a comparable precedent with Sun-in-Shadow, but I don't know if that's indicative of the rule or if it can still go either way.
    Ilsabet Menard - DC Breton Nightblade archer
    Katarin Auclair - DC Breton Warden healer & ice mage
    Lollygags-Where-She-Likes - EP Argonian Templar healer
    Gurtha gra-Margaz - DC Orc Sorcerer stormflailer
    My characters and their overly elaborate backstories
    Ilsabet's Headcanon
    PC NA
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    As someone who has a good amount of experience in this, specifically with TES, I can tell you that capitalization in this instance is inconsistent within the series and lore. It's mostly just preference or context. For example, I made an Argonian/dragon name, and I didn't even use hyphenation, but it still "fit" because of how dragon language works.

    Names are a tricky thing. There are norms and conventions, but names are, in the end, whatever you want.

    EDIT: I also wanted to note that the TES series treats names in this way too. There are ways that things are generally done, for example the hyphenation in Argonian names, but there are always exceptions to the rule - like if an Argonian were named Steve. The point is that changes from the norm have significance. So if every word were capitalized, it might signify some importance about your Argonian. Again though, capitalization like this is inconsistent within lore, so it's really just your personal preference.
    Edited by Marginis on February 13, 2018 5:03PM
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Well, the names themselves isn't really a problem. Argonian names are pretty easy and not too complex... At least their translated name. Their Jel name is a whole another basket of fish. But in a sense, they're kind of Native American chosen. By what they've seen or done. For my Argonian he's a Shadowscale, and during his training, he preferred staves to swords and daggers, making his first kill with a spell. Thus Spells-In-Shadows (Spells or Shadows for short) was the name he was given on his name day. The thing that bugs me is when I see some Argonians, like Sun-in-Shadows, have a lowercase "in" but then I'll see another I think she's called Wades-In-Muck, with a capitalized "In". So when I see Spells-In-Shadows, I wonder if it's grammar correct, or if should put it as Spells-in-Shadows to be correct. Unless both are. And thanks for replies, Ilsabet and Marginis.
    Edited by Kierro on February 15, 2018 4:44PM
  • Ilsabet
    Ilsabet
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    If you've seen NPCs with both lower-case and capitalized forms, then I think that's all the justification you need to go either way.
    Ilsabet Menard - DC Breton Nightblade archer
    Katarin Auclair - DC Breton Warden healer & ice mage
    Lollygags-Where-She-Likes - EP Argonian Templar healer
    Gurtha gra-Margaz - DC Orc Sorcerer stormflailer
    My characters and their overly elaborate backstories
    Ilsabet's Headcanon
    PC NA
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Kierro wrote: »
    Well, the names themselves isn't really a problem. Argonian names are pretty easy and not too complex... At least their translated name. Their Jel name is a whole another basket of fish. But in a sense, they're kind of Native American chosen. By what they've seen or done. For my Argonian he's a Shadowscale, and during his training, he preferred staves to swords and daggers, making his first kill with a spell. Thus Spells-In-Shadows (Spells or Shadows for short) was the name he was given on his name day. The thing that bugs me is when I see some Argonians, like Sun-in-Shadows, have a lowercase "in" but then I'll see another I think she's called Wades-In-Muck, with a capitalized "In". So when I see Spells-In-Shadows, I wonder if it's grammar correct, or if should put it as Spells-in-Shadows to be correct. Unless both are. And thanks for replies, Ilsabet and Marginis.

    Any time. Naming conventions are one of my secret passions lol. And in case I needed to make it more clear, yes, both "in" and "In" are grammatically correct.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Thanks again!
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Just role play that your Argonian was adopted by Wood Elves and they tried their best to give him a proper name but they only had limited knowledge of Argonian naming conventions.

    Problem solved ...
    biggrin.gif

    PS: One of my mains happens to be a Bosmer with an Argonian name, and i made up a similar background story for her

  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    @SirAndy Thanks, but no thanks. I already have a backstory for Spells, that I'm quite happy with. I even gave him a tribe called the Kota-Eixleel (Black-Scales in Jel, language of the Hist/Argonians. It's my own created tribe) Like real lore tribe called Kota-Vimleel, or Black-Tongues, the Kota-Eixleel are mostly Shadowscales. They've synchronized their breeding and egg laying during the Shadow (every May). Where in other tribes where 3 of 5 eggs hatched will be average Argonians, and the last two are Shadowscales. In the Kota-Eixleel, 3 of 5 are Shadowscale hatchings.

    I had hoped to win the "Immortalize Your Character" contest... Never did find out who won. If I would of won, my character would become an NPC, and if allowed, I'd ask if the Kota-Eixleel would become part of official lore. See if it would been fine to make them and the Kota-Vimleel, sister tribes.

    I don't have a problem with naming my Argonian, because Cyrodilic names are easy, they're words that describe who and what your Argonian is or does. Ex: Reads-and-Drinks, would be an Argonian who... Well... reads and drinks. There's an Argonian in Gold Coast, named something like, Eats-Drinks-Loves. It's what he does-- not in that order either, by his own words. Jel (original non-translated name) names, however, are more tricky. You need to do alot of homework, read Argonian lore books, hear an Argonian talk to understand the context on a word. Then you can create a Jel name. My Argonian is Skyrim, who in solo RP is Spells' descendant, is named Kota-Eix because his scales are darker (Leel means people or tribe, always add it when talking about a group, but remove for individual)

    One cool thing about Jel, is a word can be both singular, plural or mean more than 1 word. Haj means "hide", like the action not the skin. It can also mean: hidden, hides, to hide, be hidden, stay hidden, hide oneself etc. The temble in Northern Shadowfen Xal-Haj-Ei, can translate to "Sacred (Xal) Hidden Place From Prying Eyes (Ei)", or any variation and all will be correct. So long as it has sacred, hide and eye(s), just fill the blanks. Haj-Ei (Hides-His-Eyes) is also an Argonian from Oblivion(?). Jel is very loose. So it's very easy to name an Argonian. However, many words don't have a translation. This is because Argonians don't trust outsiders much, so much of their lore is kept... Xal. Truth is, Bethesda's still working on their lore, so they've created an excuse (I say that with respect) as to why Argonian lore, and by extension Khajiiti lore, is so splotchy.

    AKA... I'm a Khajiit and Argonian nerd scholar. My two favorite races in Elder Scrolls. Sorry for such a huge story book ^^
    Edited by Kierro on February 17, 2018 3:06PM
  • czar
    czar
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    Kierro wrote: »
    Sorry for such a huge story book ^^
    I thought it was an interesting read. I always thought Argonian lore was a bit wacky (i.e. the whole Hist thing) and splotchy (like you said), so I haven't bothered reading much about them.
    stam scrub
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    schip wrote: »
    Kierro wrote: »
    Sorry for such a huge story book ^^
    I thought it was an interesting read. I always thought Argonian lore was a bit wacky (i.e. the whole Hist thing) and splotchy (like you said), so I haven't bothered reading much about them.

    You just need to do a little more deep reading then normal. Every race, except for Khajiit and Argonians, are open about their history. Some more than others. You have to piece together from different books, some of which aren't even Argonian lore books, but Dunmer, Nord and some Altmer or Bosmer lore books. The reason for the protection of culture is mainly due to slavery. The Argonians and Khajiit (slightly less then Argonian) are very protective of their history, because the last time they were open, they got burned. Even during with EP quest, a High Elf general takes advantage of Argonian generosity, claiming to be a legit scholar, and truly curious about Argonian culture. Only to find a way to destroy them from the inside.

    If you want, I can answer what questions I can.
    Edited by Kierro on February 17, 2018 3:17AM
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Kierro wrote: »
    schip wrote: »
    Kierro wrote: »
    Sorry for such a huge story book ^^
    I thought it was an interesting read. I always thought Argonian lore was a bit wacky (i.e. the whole Hist thing) and splotchy (like you said), so I haven't bothered reading much about them.

    You just need to do a little more deep reading than normal. Every race, except for Khajiit and Argonians, are open about their history. Some more than others. You have to piece together from different books, some of which aren't even Argonian lore books, but Dunmer, Nord and some Altmer or Bosmer lore books. The reason for the protection of culture is mainly due to slavery. The Argonians and Khajiit (slightly less then Argonian) are very protective of their history, because the last time they were open, they got burned. Even during with EP quest, a High Elf general takes advantage of Argonian generosity, claiming to be a legit scholar, and truly curious about Argonian culture. Only to find a way to destroy them from the inside.

    If you want, I can answer what questions I can.

    It's also a fun challenge to parse lore into history and myth. It's not as easy in TES as in the real world because magic doesn't automatically mean myth.

    For what it's worth, I'm keeping an eye on this thread and can help with questions too. :D
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Marginis wrote: »
    It's also a fun challenge to parse lore into history and myth. It's not as easy in TES as in the real world because magic doesn't automatically mean myth.

    For what it's worth, I'm keeping an eye on this thread and can help with questions too. :D

    Thanks!
  • Tyralbin
    Tyralbin
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    Not to up with Argonian lore but spelling a name in lower case could signify some fall from grace within their tribe/family.
    Live a little love a lot send all your gold to this Imperials pot.
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Tyralbin wrote: »
    Not to up with Argonian lore but spelling a name in lower case could signify some fall from grace within their tribe/family.

    Interesting theory.
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Tyralbin wrote: »
    Not to up with Argonian lore but spelling a name in lower case could signify some fall from grace within their tribe/family.

    Definitely, just like I said. However, "could" would be your decision RP-wise. There is nothing in lore that states that lower case would signify that.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Or is it Knows-no-Name? Or Knows-No-Name? XD
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Koronach
    Koronach
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    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Right because Telvanni wizard is such a unique and awesome name. Not hatin just sayin.
    Edited by Koronach on March 7, 2018 6:43PM
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Koronach wrote: »
    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Right because Telvanni wizard is such a unique and awesome name. Not hatin just sayin.

    Yeah I completely agree. It's rare to get a name that a ton of other people would try to get, and it's nice too to not see just [insert word here] [insert random string of numbers here] all the time.

    My favorite though is still my character that's simply named "You". Can't get much better than that XP.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    Koronach wrote: »
    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Right because Telvanni wizard is such a unique and awesome name. Not hatin just sayin.

    Woa man, chill out. Was just joking.
  • Koronach
    Koronach
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    Koronach wrote: »
    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Right because Telvanni wizard is such a unique and awesome name. Not hatin just sayin.

    Woa man, chill out. Was just joking.

    Sorry but it's hard to tell when the same handful of people go into every thread involving anything Argonian and spew racist and berating comments constantly, it gets old fast.
  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Marginis wrote: »
    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Or is it Knows-no-Name? Or Knows-No-Name? XD

    Har har ;)

  • Kierro
    Kierro
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    Koronach wrote: »
    Just pick one of those hundreds of funny argonian names and forget about "in" problems and other things... Here, I suggest you: "Knows-no-name".

    Right because Telvanni wizard is such a unique and awesome name. Not hatin just sayin.

    Woa man, chill out. Was just joking.

    RP perspective aside for Spells hatred of the Telvanni magisters, but even "I" knew this was a sarcastic, playfully-monking, joke. Lets keep it relatively friendly, peoples. Plz?
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