Official Discussion Thread for "Update 17 Brings Greater Teamwork and Tactics to ESO’s Combat"

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Update 17 Brings Greater Teamwork and Tactics to ESO’s Combat. Update 17 introduces a host of changes to ESO's combat that emphasizes smart teamwork and tactical play. Learn everything you need to know about the changes coming to combat in this latest article.

RebornV3x

It all sounds fantastic and really great espically the synergy stuff. But why do I feel like I have to relearn how to play the game every patch.

Sawzallz

So now I'm going to get full magika pool from 1 heavy attacks

Elsonso

RebornV3x wrote: »

It all sounds fantastic and really great espically the synergy stuff. But why do I feel like I have to relearn how to play the game every patch.

... said the person who's forum handle is "reborn"?

I generally don't feel that I need to relearn every Update, but it is not unusual to have to make changes to adapt.

Alcast

Synergy and AoE Cap Removal changes are very good. Other stuff doesnt make a lot of sense tho, those permablockers in cyrodiil definitely needed a buff

Beardimus

Really good read, this format will help alot of players.

I always check the patch notes, but most guild mates don't. It's too much for alot of more casual console players etc so presenting the changes like this makes an easy read (and share) for all.

Nice job ZOS

Vanthras79

Good job on the removal of AOE caps!!
After reading the article, I guess I am not the only person who uses quotes

Vaoh

Synergy improvements/buffs are absolutely awesome! They’ve been broken for so long now that in most content people ignore the synergy button altogether. Also very nice to see AoE Caps go away which has been complained about by practically everyone since it was implemented.

However, I don’t really agree with the interrupt changes. The counterplay to cast-time skills was to interrupt them. It was gameplay that rewarded skill and paying attention to your opponents every move. When you cast your own interruptabe skills, you had to cast them intelligently and not at times where you could easily be bashed/interrupted. Now a CC-immune target will be able to cast them all they want..... maybe it’ll work out, but atm it sounds like we’re just simplifying combat in a way that no one asked for.

DHale

I do like the synergies and they needed fixing but AOE caps never should have been there anyway so nice of you to give us what we have wanted. The rest just will make good players better and bad players worse which you intended the opposite.

Universe

Cinbri

I hope it wont end like always - removed aoe caps instead of decrease lags will increase it.

Recremen

I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one yourself. You aren't going to get a sudden burst of combat inspiration and AoE coordinated players down on your own with a few lucky impulse spams. You need teamwork.

ArchMikem

At least they're buffing sustain and making synergies easier to use.

Masel

Off-balance is still too short to reliably react to it....

xaraan

Some of the upcoming changes are good, some are not - but it's amusing to watch them try and put a positive spin on every change, even the bad ones lol. That was a good read.

Nifty2g

"Do I cast this high-damage ability, or do I use my Heavy Attack to get a load of resources?"

Yes, stop the speed of the combat, everyone asked for that because Morrowind was such a success in the combat department. Get a grip, Wrobel.

Moloch1514

Recremen wrote: »

I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one

Recremen wrote: »

I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one yourself. You aren't going to get a sudden burst of combat inspiration and AoE coordinated players down on your own with a few lucky impulse spams. You need teamwork.

Just curious what changes they reverted, in terms of PvE?

Recremen

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Just curious what changes they reverted, in terms of PvE?

The thing I specifically remember related to synergy timing. Turns out only getting shards/orbs every 30 seconds was gonna be a bad time.

Zaldan

Reading that this game sounds amazing, until you play it. Would love to see the dev server where all this clever stuff works.

Ankael07

Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?

WatchYourSixx

A heavy attack takes about 2 seconds to complete on a Magicka staff user. If off balance is up for only 5 seconds, our "reaction" at most can give two fully charged heavy attacks for resource return. Assuming you're not 100% paying attention to exactly when off balance is reapplied, you'll most likely only get to cast one heavy attack during this time. How is this supposed to be a good thing for resource return??

Arobain

Ankael07 wrote: »

Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?

you can enable them in the options, they were set as default, as removed, to help with performance in places like cyrodiil, during large battles

Bajatar

"Block More, Block Often", unless you're a tank and rely on blocking as part of your core gameplay. In that case it's the exact opposite.

It's hard to get behind these nerfs which seem to solely cater to the PvP crowd. Especially as tanks are already at a disadvantage in most aspects of the game. I guess they feel there are still too many tanks in the dungeon queue.

Ankael07

Arobain wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?

you can enable them in the options, they were set as default, as removed, to help with performance in places like cyrodiil, during large battles

That option only works outside Cyrodiil

ArchMikem

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

A heavy attack takes about 2 seconds to complete on a Magicka staff user. If off balance is up for only 5 seconds, our "reaction" at most can give two fully charged heavy attacks for resource return. Assuming you're not 100% paying attention to exactly when off balance is reapplied, you'll most likely only get to cast one heavy attack during this time. How is this supposed to be a good thing for resource return??

Shock takes 3ish seconds, and the flame is even longer. I wish it was only 2.

ProfesseurFreder

Block? Who blocks?

I have Asperger's, subtleties are lost on me, especially when I'm freaking out in a fight situation. For me, combat is strictly "beat on them 'til they die." (or I do)

BaronBlake

Greatly appreciated ZoS. I love the tactical combat and teamwork this game offers. It is much fun!
Fixes and tweaks, balances with great challenge is what I like to see! Well done!

-Friend

Azurya

well that reads fantastic at first gloom, BUT
then i read on, and I read on
and saw that much AoE gets buffed, JUST
none Stamina-based AoE!!!! WHY!!!
you just forgot? @ZOS_Wrobel
or just want stamina based gameplay to die forever????
PLS let us know why you hate staminabased gameplay that much???