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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508927/

Official Discussion Thread for "Update 17 Brings Greater Teamwork and Tactics to ESO’s Combat"

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Update 17 Brings Greater Teamwork and Tactics to ESO’s Combat. Update 17 introduces a host of changes to ESO's combat that emphasizes smart teamwork and tactical play. Learn everything you need to know about the changes coming to combat in this latest article.
Gina Bruno
ESO Community Manager
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Staff Post
  • Sawzallz
    Sawzallz
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    So now I'm going to get full magika pool from 1 heavy attacks :D
    Edited by Sawzallz on February 7, 2018 3:48PM
  • Alcast
    Alcast
    Class Representative
    Synergy and AoE Cap Removal changes are very good. Other stuff doesnt make a lot of sense tho, those permablockers in cyrodiil definitely needed a buff :trollface:
    Edited by Alcast on February 7, 2018 4:17PM
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  • Vanthras79
    Vanthras79
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    Good job on the removal of AOE caps!!
    After reading the article, I guess I am not the only person who uses quotes :smile:
    Norion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Resident of Wayrest, and Lord of Tel Galen.

  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Synergy improvements/buffs are absolutely awesome! They’ve been broken for so long now that in most content people ignore the synergy button altogether. Also very nice to see AoE Caps go away which has been complained about by practically everyone since it was implemented.

    However, I don’t really agree with the interrupt changes. The counterplay to cast-time skills was to interrupt them. It was gameplay that rewarded skill and paying attention to your opponents every move. When you cast your own interruptabe skills, you had to cast them intelligently and not at times where you could easily be bashed/interrupted. Now a CC-immune target will be able to cast them all they want..... maybe it’ll work out, but atm it sounds like we’re just simplifying combat in a way that no one asked for.
  • DHale
    DHale
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    I do like the synergies and they needed fixing but AOE caps never should have been there anyway so nice of you to give us what we have wanted. The rest just will make good players better and bad players worse which you intended the opposite.
    Sorcerna, proud beta sorc.
    RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases.
    Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Beacuse a 6 k shield is f ing useless.
    Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew.
    16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 1444 plus 16 level 50 toons.
    NA, PC, Kaal
    #SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.
  • Universe
    Universe
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    Maddie%2BEye%2Bof%2Bthe%2BStorm.JPG
    I Soloed Saint Llothis the Pious(Trial Boss)
    My Youtube channel: Universe ESO
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    Universe - AD magicka sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, The Trial Bosses Solo Slayer
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    ESO player since beta & early access
    PC EU server
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    Guild Master of "The Champions" - AD AvA & Dueling guild
  • Cinbri
    Cinbri
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    I hope it wont end like always - removed aoe caps instead of decrease lags will increase it.
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

    The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

    We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one yourself. You aren't going to get a sudden burst of combat inspiration and AoE coordinated players down on your own with a few lucky impulse spams. You need teamwork.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    At least they're buffing sustain and making synergies easier to use.
    CP1,100+ Master Explorer - AvA Prefect - Console Peasant

    The constant state of Cyrodiil PvP:
    https://i.imgur.com/CHyI36F.png
  • Moloch1514
    Moloch1514
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    Recremen wrote: »
    I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

    The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

    We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one
    Recremen wrote: »
    I can't comment too extensively on the combat changes since that's not my specialty, but I'm really happy with how much back-and-forth there seemed to be between testers and the development team this PTS cycle. Nothing combat-related felt off limits for feedback and it looked like there were some real and substantive changes based on the analysis of some of our combat gurus in the game. Thanks to everyone who helped on that!

    The only thing I can really comment on is the AoE caps and how that's going to affect PvP. I think this is a good change, but I think we're reaching, or have already reached, the upper limit on how much people are really going to be spreading out. We already don't have the "ball groups" in the style of yesteryear. Nobody is stacking tight all on the same point in space. At this point, casting even a large AoE like Caltrops into a group isn't likely to hit more than 10 people at once, and that's in the best-case scenario where people are literally stacking in a flag room. Now that's still an important change, since as I recall there was a damage dropoff after six players hit, but I don't think it's going to be the gamechanger that people were looking for.

    We are still going to have huge numbers of people showing up to the same keep. We are still going to have coordinated guilds schooling the less-organized and the less-experienced. We're not going to all suddenly pair off into dueling circles at every fight and single-target each other down. I just hope that, with the long-awaited removal of AoE caps, people will finally realize that if you want to fight coordinated groups you need to be in one yourself. You aren't going to get a sudden burst of combat inspiration and AoE coordinated players down on your own with a few lucky impulse spams. You need teamwork.

    Just curious what changes they reverted, in terms of PvE?
    PC-NA
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    Moloch1514 wrote: »

    Just curious what changes they reverted, in terms of PvE?

    The thing I specifically remember related to synergy timing. Turns out only getting shards/orbs every 30 seconds was gonna be a bad time.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Zaldan
    Zaldan
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    Reading that this game sounds amazing, until you play it. Would love to see the dev server where all this clever stuff works.
    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    Niidro tiid wah fusvok dirkah.

    aka.@Cuthceol
  • Ankael07
    Ankael07
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    Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?
    Edited by Ankael07 on February 7, 2018 9:10PM
    If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.
  • WatchYourSixx
    WatchYourSixx
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    A heavy attack takes about 2 seconds to complete on a Magicka staff user. If off balance is up for only 5 seconds, our "reaction" at most can give two fully charged heavy attacks for resource return. Assuming you're not 100% paying attention to exactly when off balance is reapplied, you'll most likely only get to cast one heavy attack during this time. How is this supposed to be a good thing for resource return??
    The only thing to fear is, fear itself. - FDR

    CP 800
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  • Arobain
    Arobain
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    Ankael07 wrote: »
    Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?

    you can enable them in the options, they were set as default, as removed, to help with performance in places like cyrodiil, during large battles
    Edited by Arobain on February 7, 2018 9:52PM
  • Bajatar
    Bajatar
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    "Block More, Block Often", unless you're a tank and rely on blocking as part of your core gameplay. In that case it's the exact opposite.

    It's hard to get behind these nerfs which seem to solely cater to the PvP crowd. Especially as tanks are already at a disadvantage in most aspects of the game. I guess they feel there are still too many tanks in the dungeon queue.
  • Ankael07
    Ankael07
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    Arobain wrote: »
    Ankael07 wrote: »
    Good idea to write an article like this but a huge chunk of gameplay has been gone from PVP when you guys removed AOE animations. Any chance we can get an option for that? Or are we going to have more and more animations removed for the sake of more flashy mounts?

    you can enable them in the options, they were set as default, as removed, to help with performance in places like cyrodiil, during large battles

    That option only works outside Cyrodiil
    If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    A heavy attack takes about 2 seconds to complete on a Magicka staff user. If off balance is up for only 5 seconds, our "reaction" at most can give two fully charged heavy attacks for resource return. Assuming you're not 100% paying attention to exactly when off balance is reapplied, you'll most likely only get to cast one heavy attack during this time. How is this supposed to be a good thing for resource return??

    Shock takes 3ish seconds, and the flame is even longer. I wish it was only 2.
    CP1,100+ Master Explorer - AvA Prefect - Console Peasant

    The constant state of Cyrodiil PvP:
    https://i.imgur.com/CHyI36F.png
  • ProfesseurFreder
    ProfesseurFreder
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    Block? Who blocks?

    I have Asperger's, subtleties are lost on me, especially when I'm freaking out in a fight situation. For me, combat is strictly "beat on them 'til they die." (or I do)
    "Nothing by which all human passion and hope and folly can be mirrored and then proved ever was just a game."
    -- William Faulkner.
  • BaronBlake
    BaronBlake
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    Greatly appreciated ZoS. I love the tactical combat and teamwork this game offers. It is much fun!
    Fixes and tweaks, balances with great challenge is what I like to see! Well done!

    -Friend
  • Azurya
    Azurya
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    well that reads fantastic at first gloom, BUT
    then i read on, and I read on
    and saw that much AoE gets buffed, JUST
    none Stamina-based AoE!!!! WHY!!!
    you just forgot? @ZOS_Wrobel
    or just want stamina based gameplay to die forever????
    PLS let us know why you hate staminabased gameplay that much???
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
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