Warden birds feels empty after skill after huge nerf

Luckylancer

It was toxic but sigle target dmg which cant be dodged was unique. Now bird skill is boring delayed, hard to weave spamable + a few animal companion(AC) passive procs. Nothing special about it left. There should be another thing to add.

A lacking list to just give a few examples:

Refund if dodged: still a bit boring skill, i think this can be baseline
Big dmg buff but each subsequent hit reduces dmg: needed dmg boost for pve, burst potantial for pvp (this effect can be mag morp, stamwarden is already bursty. magwarden need pve dd boost too)
-Apply a unique or a common debuff: can be anything
-Go through block: immortals tanks wont feel it anyways
-Cause other AC skills to deal additional dmg: "next AC skill deal %X dmg to marked target.expires within X seconds if you dont cast AC dmg skill" OR "all AC skills deal %X more dmg to marked target for X seconds." First one is similar to cruel flury (vMA daggers) and will help mag wardens dps with fetcher infection. If this buff makes stamwarden more bursty, make it mag morp.
-Next class skill will be cheaper: a super cheap dmg source

What they can add dont matter but just nerfing without any buff is bad for skill. What they remove was all bird skill had.

Minno

One thing to keep in mind:

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We’ve updated several abilities so they better adhere to our block and dodge mechanics. The system is set up to be intuitive – attacks on the ground such as fire or Caltrops cannot be blocked or dodged. We also want dodging to be useful during some instances, and blocking to be useful at other times. The ruleset is as follows:

Attacks that can be blocked, but not dodged
AoE explosions such as Radial Sweep, Spear Shards’ initial hit, or Drain Power.
Beam attacks such as Radiant Destruction, Lightning Staff, or Soul Strike.
Attacks that cannot be blocked or dodged
Damage on the ground such as Wall of Elements, Caltrops, or Lightning Splash.
Effects that are on or inside a player character, such as Daedric Curse, or Backlash. (Damage over time effects)
Attacks that can be dodged, but not blocked
Secondary effects that penetrate Block such as the Damage over Time from Sunfire, the surprise attack armor debuff, or the snare from Low Slash snare.
Note: Block continues to provide stun immunity, so it will stop a secondary effect like the stun from Stonefist.

Exceptions to these rules will be stated each ability’s tooltip, such as Fiery Grip which cannot be dodged or reflected."

That said, birds do give you health and give you 2% DMG done for being slotted (which is currently one of few stats that boost proc set dmg).

Lexxypwns

Minno wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind:

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
We’ve updated several abilities so they better adhere to our block and dodge mechanics. The system is set up to be intuitive – attacks on the ground such as fire or Caltrops cannot be blocked or dodged. We also want dodging to be useful during some instances, and blocking to be useful at other times. The ruleset is as follows:

Attacks that can be blocked, but not dodged
AoE explosions such as Radial Sweep, Spear Shards’ initial hit, or Drain Power.
Beam attacks such as Radiant Destruction, Lightning Staff, or Soul Strike.
Attacks that cannot be blocked or dodged
Damage on the ground such as Wall of Elements, Caltrops, or Lightning Splash.
Effects that are on or inside a player character, such as Daedric Curse, or Backlash. (Damage over time effects)
Attacks that can be dodged, but not blocked
Secondary effects that penetrate Block such as the Damage over Time from Sunfire, the surprise attack armor debuff, or the snare from Low Slash snare.
Note: Block continues to provide stun immunity, so it will stop a secondary effect like the stun from Stonefist.

Exceptions to these rules will be stated each ability’s tooltip, such as Fiery Grip which cannot be dodged or reflected."

That said, birds do give you health and give you 2% DMG done for being slotted (which is currently one of few stats that boost proc set dmg).

In almost all cases you're gonna be better off dropping birds based on the theorycrafting I've done. I've yet to test the changes, but I think that dropping racer is going to allow me to make some other changes in my build and push out higher damage numbers. I think I can get a 19k Fissure Tooltip with the new build. I'll just need to change to a more offensive ultimate.

Wreuntzylla

Luckylancer wrote: »

I...

Refund if dodged: still a bit boring skill, i think this can be baseline

...

Just posted in another thread, if perma-dodge is going to remain, NO dodged attack should cost stam.

Jhalin

Warden was only being used because of the birds, because the skill was broken and prevented proper balancing because they were so overpowered. Now that the birds can be avoided, there is room to buff Wardens in other ways. The bird's projectile speed can go up to make it require faster reflexes to dodge, the rest of the Warden's kits can get some of the power that was removed from the bird.

That's how balance is meant to work. Now, I do have doubts that ZOS will actually use proper balancing philosophies, but that's how it should work.

monktoasty

So they made it dodge able and nerfed it?

Waffennacht

monktoasty wrote: »

So they made it dodge able and nerfed it?

It's dodgeable now. They didn't change anything else, they made it dodgeable.

So now you have Fissure and a dodgeable delayed bird for offensive warden abilities. But hey flies should be able to proc skoria now.

I think it's a stupid change, they could have easily added something to help PvE or anything

Sixty5

Waffennacht wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

So they made it dodge able and nerfed it?

It's dodgeable now. They didn't change anything else, they made it dodgeable.

So now you have Fissure and a dodgeable delayed bird for offensive warden abilities. But hey flies should be able to proc skoria now.

I think it's a stupid change, they could have easily added something to help PvE or anything

I'd take either of those as a Stam Sorc tbh.

Tryxus

Waffennacht wrote: »

But hey flies should be able to proc skoria now.

...

MUAHAHAHAHA.......

monktoasty

Waffennacht wrote: »

monktoasty wrote: »

So they made it dodge able and nerfed it?

It's dodgeable now. They didn't change anything else, they made it dodgeable.

So now you have Fissure and a dodgeable delayed bird for offensive warden abilities. But hey flies should be able to proc skoria now.

I think it's a stupid change, they could have easily added something to help PvE or anything

Oh ok thanks for the clarification. Op Sounded like they made it slower to cast and do less damage..that would be over kill

Narvuntien

They need to shorten the animation.. but otherwise it is fine.

Lexxypwns

Tryxus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

But hey flies should be able to proc skoria now.

...

MUAHAHAHAHA.......

I’m gonna try 5 BSW - Front 5 Overwhelming Surge - Back 2 Skoria with 3x regen glyphs and lover mundus for no-CP BGs