Nightblade Sap Tank... still dead?

ccfeeling

Sap tanks exist , but just not for end game content .

Doctordarkspawn

MacCait wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

@MacCait

Make it simple for you.

If you use a suggested setup you'll do allright. But be aware that every patch has new content designed for block tanks, and they keep doing their best to relegate any sort of healing or team support to normal.

Basicly if you dont want to tank anything above normal? Dont come back. In fact if you want to have any build freedom at all, stick to normal, or just dont play. This game has no build freedom.

Pretty much why I left... shame... I was hoping after nearly a year things would have improved, but chatting to folk online today I'm hearing people are still not happy with all the sustain changes, heavy attacking, and now the changes to block. Seems like the game is getting harder and totally losing its soul and all the fun that the game used to have. If its not fun, I think I'll stay away

Basicly an apt summary. It isn't. And whatever soul and build freedom is basicly just normals. I still get a kick out of running them with friends.

But otherwise? Yeah, do yourself a favor, stay away.

victoriana-blue

MacCait wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

@MacCait

Make it simple for you.

If you use a suggested setup you'll do allright. But be aware that every patch has new content designed for block tanks, and they keep doing their best to relegate any sort of healing or team support to normal.

Basicly if you dont want to tank anything above normal? Dont come back. In fact if you want to have any build freedom at all, stick to normal, or just dont play. This game has no build freedom.

Pretty much why I left... shame... I was hoping after nearly a year things would have improved, but chatting to folk online today I'm hearing people are still not happy with all the sustain changes, heavy attacking, and now the changes to block. Seems like the game is getting harder and totally losing its soul and all the fun that the game used to have. If its not fun, I think I'll stay away

Fwiw, the change to block enchants really only affects end game vet HM trial tanks who got their block cost down to tiny levels; it's a "lower the ceiling" change.

This patch also improved frost staff's blocking passive - it now reduces block cost by the same amount as the 1h&s passive, which is awesome.

Tanking is in a weird place right now: post-Morrowind content has a lot of interesting mechanics, like taking bosses to particular places and clearer regen phases, but the hard modes still need perma blocking and old content hasn't been adjusted.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Can t wait 4 next patch, nb tanks r getting Ghetto chains and talons, HYYPE, time to undust my good old Sap tank (currently a dps) and get some sets ready

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

The original sap tank is dead, buried in terms of strength. I am sorry for your loss. But to quote GoT: What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger.

You can still build a VERY strong NB tank for PvE, especially after the pre-PTS information we got for Summerset regarding the NB tanking and healer buffs.

We can work with you to get a strong build if you want #NBTankSolidarity

I can link an overview sheet for my NB tank if you want?

IlCanis_LupuslI

I followed @Gilliamtherogue es tank build, imperial but im shure ill manage sustain wise. Shure I always take some additional input, the new Cloak Heal looks fricking amazing for nb-tanks I think im gonna have a lot of fun in pve. Probably gonna go pugging to get some practice :-P

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I followed @Gilliamtherogue es tank build, imperial but im shure ill manage sustain wise. Shire I always take some additional input, the new Cloak Heal looks fricking amazing for nb-tanks I think im gonna have a lot of fun in pve. Probably gonna go puffing to get some practice :-P

I run a Dunmer tank, because the Dunmer are the master race lol.
On a more serious note there's always people willing to test and tinker to make strong builds, especially when some people write it off. In essence we build the new meta.

I run tanks of 4 different classes (dislike Templar tanks) and many are very strongly made and ready for some vet Trials (not tested in all so refuse to say all)

IlCanis_LupuslI

Your telling me, i play a ww in PvP ^^(own build).

IlCanis_LupuslI

So your nb-tanks build plz????

Peekachu99

Leeching/ Bahraha’s/ Malubeth and you couldn’t die even if you rubber-banded your controller on a boss fight. Plus all the NB passive and siphons. If you mean actual leeching strikes, the skill, that’s pretty dead but also unnecessary in a self-sustain build anyhow.

I still want to see a proper health-scaling magika shield on a NB tank. That’s the only thing in their kit they’re missing and it should be that instead of the new (garbage) cloak.

crobarXIII

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Can t wait 4 next patch, nb tanks r getting Ghetto chains and talons, HYYPE, time to undust my good old Sap tank (currently a dps) and get some sets ready

I already use swarm mother & volcanic rune for my ghetto chains & talons.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Thx but i was adressing @OneKhajiitCrimeWave 4 his nb Tank setup and add my own touch to it later

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

So your nb-tanks build plz????

http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=53590

The numbers aren't 100% correct but this editor is the closest i've found.
Recoveries are low as potion cool down reduction glyphs are on all 3 jewellery pieces.

Next update will see changes but this update this build is solid for most PvE.

Additionally the editor has swapped the ults around. I have warhorn on front bar, S+B ult on the back.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Nice ill work from herr on something which fits my taste

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Thx but i was adressing @OneKhajiitCrimeWave 4 her nb Tank setup and add my own touch to it later

Fixed that for you

Arobain

It never was dead, it just changed a little. Adapt or dont

IlCanis_LupuslI

LMAO

IlCanis_LupuslI

Not my thread btw just revived it, just like i revived my old sap tank

MacCait

Just seen my thread got resurrected from late Jan when I was just coming back to the game... so I updated the front page. After testing out my NB tank I was pleased to discover it wasn't dead, just a bit wounded

I've been having fun with my NB tanks over the last few months. They definately feel weaker, and are a bit more of a struggle to play, which is such a shame. Compared with the super easy to use 3-button DK tank that can take on any content, the NB tank is even more of a struggle than before the war-on-sustain, but I won't give up on it. The NB tank is still my favorite of all my tanks.

I am excited to see what happens in Summerset, and would really love to see all non-DK tanks get a big boost, enabling them to even become a main trials tank. I have a DK trials tank, and honestly it just seems super easy to use and I get very bored of that tanking style. I would love to see more NB, Templar, Sorc, and Warden tanks able to tackle trials not just as an off-tank, but also as a main trial tank.

I understand that ZOS always want one class to do something better than the others, but the gap between a DK tank and the others is far too great. This limits everyone to using a generic meta DK build if they want to main tank vet trials... That's just boring IMO.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Same here, dk trial tanking =boring af I like to have a challenge

Nightblade tanking = down but not out

magictucktuck

Ive used magicka and stamina NB tank recently, although i main a stamina one. and i use him for all vet dungeons including DLC and normal trials. I'm sure he could do Vet trials but I'm not in a trial guild right now and i wouldn't wanna tank a vet pug trial. that being said I don't bring as much utility and i have to slot swarm mother (until summerset) but i do bring more survival in the form of my ulti for pug vet dungeons, i have war horn on my back bar and consuming on the front if things get hairy, if the group isn't going well enough to even utilize war horn ill put consuming on my back bar and put soul harvest on the front so i can get consuming up A LOT for them. soul tether is also a great alternate for consuming for heals and stun if you group has issues with large trash packs ( low lvl pugs since they dont know to stand in consuming a lot anyways lol)

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leeching/ Bahraha’s/ Malubeth and you couldn’t die even if you rubber-banded your controller on a boss fight. Plus all the NB passive and siphons. If you mean actual leeching strikes, the skill, that’s pretty dead but also unnecessary in a self-sustain build anyhow.

I still want to see a proper health-scaling magika shield on a NB tank. That’s the only thing in their kit they’re missing and it should be that instead of the new (garbage) cloak.

That new cloak allows us to slot a strong heal and access to a buff we don't get as easily.

While i'd like a health scaling shield, look at what they plan to give us/what we'll have:

A heal for 33% of health/missing health (can't remember how it was worded)
Minor protection
In built fast ultimate generation
Minor vitality
Minor and Major ward
Minor and Major resolve
Major evasion
Access to resource sustain unlike some other tanks (not as massive as DK returns from ulti but i can light attack for both Stamina, Magicka and Health back)
An AoE minor maim.

The jewellery crafting is more a buff to NB tanks than most others because it allows the sort of shenanigans that i usually only find in sorc tank builds.

Our toolkit got expanded and you're still trying to claw for more or judge a skill before we even get to play with it?

IlCanis_LupuslI

Also the only Tank what STILL can use tavas blessing sucessfully, makes it actually usefull in harder content

Kodrac

I changed mine to Stamina. I still use Tava's though. It helps with self sustain as well as the dodging.

Peekachu99

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leeching/ Bahraha’s/ Malubeth and you couldn’t die even if you rubber-banded your controller on a boss fight. Plus all the NB passive and siphons. If you mean actual leeching strikes, the skill, that’s pretty dead but also unnecessary in a self-sustain build anyhow.

I still want to see a proper health-scaling magika shield on a NB tank. That’s the only thing in their kit they’re missing and it should be that instead of the new (garbage) cloak.

That new cloak allows us to slot a strong heal and access to a buff we don't get as easily.

While i'd like a health scaling shield, look at what they plan to give us/what we'll have:

A heal for 33% of health/missing health (can't remember how it was worded)
Minor protection
In built fast ultimate generation
Minor vitality
Minor and Major ward
Minor and Major resolve
Major evasion
Access to resource sustain unlike some other tanks (not as massive as DK returns from ulti but i can light attack for both Stamina, Magicka and Health back)
An AoE minor maim.

The jewellery crafting is more a buff to NB tanks than most others because it allows the sort of shenanigans that i usually only find in sorc tank builds.

Our toolkit got expanded and you're still trying to claw for more or judge a skill before we even get to play with it?

Healing was never an issue with NB tanks (Leeching/ sap/ drain). Actual damage prevention has always been their weakness. Also in PVP that heal is next to useless with defile spam and standard PVP downscaling. They are literally the only class that doesn’t have a shield. Out of five classes. If they’re homogenizing roles, that’s a grave oversight.

Peekachu99

Peekachu99 wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leeching/ Bahraha’s/ Malubeth and you couldn’t die even if you rubber-banded your controller on a boss fight. Plus all the NB passive and siphons. If you mean actual leeching strikes, the skill, that’s pretty dead but also unnecessary in a self-sustain build anyhow.

I still want to see a proper health-scaling magika shield on a NB tank. That’s the only thing in their kit they’re missing and it should be that instead of the new (garbage) cloak.

That new cloak allows us to slot a strong heal and access to a buff we don't get as easily.

While i'd like a health scaling shield, look at what they plan to give us/what we'll have:

A heal for 33% of health/missing health (can't remember how it was worded)
Minor protection
In built fast ultimate generation
Minor vitality
Minor and Major ward
Minor and Major resolve
Major evasion
Access to resource sustain unlike some other tanks (not as massive as DK returns from ulti but i can light attack for both Stamina, Magicka and Health back)
An AoE minor maim.

The jewellery crafting is more a buff to NB tanks than most others because it allows the sort of shenanigans that i usually only find in sorc tank builds.

Our toolkit got expanded and you're still trying to claw for more or judge a skill before we even get to play with it?

Healing was never an issue with NB tanks (Leeching/ sap/ drain). Actual damage prevention has always been their weakness. Also in PVP that heal is next to useless with defile spam and standard PVP downscaling. They are literally the only class that doesn’t have a shield. Out of five classes. If they’re homogenizing roles, that’s a grave oversight.

Edit: Unless they’ve adjusted the cost of cloak, Vampire Drain will remain a better option (ult morph) in all instances.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Only you can blockcast the 1 and can t blockcast the other one since its a channeled ability plus vamp on tank is a very bad idea in most harder dungeons /trials

Peekachu99

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Only you can blockcast the 1 and can t blockcast the other one since its a channeled ability plus vamp on tank is a very bad idea in most harder dungeons /trials

Are you serious? Undeath passive and CP completely trivialize any fire damage. Also Meditate (new skill, available to all) with the FULL protection morph is still way better than the changed Cloak morph. There is no reason to slot this on your bar unless you are bad at theorycrafting. Literally none.

Peekachu99

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Only you can blockcast the 1 and can t blockcast the other one since its a channeled ability plus vamp on tank is a very bad idea in most harder dungeons /trials

Are you serious? Undeath passive and CP completely trivialize any fire damage. Also Meditate (new skill, available to all) with the FULL protection morph is still way better than the changed Cloak morph. There is no reason to slot this on your bar unless you are bad at theorycrafting. Literally none.

P.S. You can block cancel Vamp Drain and still get the first tick btw. (22% health and 3 ultimate.)

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Peekachu99 wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Leeching/ Bahraha’s/ Malubeth and you couldn’t die even if you rubber-banded your controller on a boss fight. Plus all the NB passive and siphons. If you mean actual leeching strikes, the skill, that’s pretty dead but also unnecessary in a self-sustain build anyhow.

I still want to see a proper health-scaling magika shield on a NB tank. That’s the only thing in their kit they’re missing and it should be that instead of the new (garbage) cloak.

That new cloak allows us to slot a strong heal and access to a buff we don't get as easily.

While i'd like a health scaling shield, look at what they plan to give us/what we'll have:

A heal for 33% of health/missing health (can't remember how it was worded)
Minor protection
In built fast ultimate generation
Minor vitality
Minor and Major ward
Minor and Major resolve
Major evasion
Access to resource sustain unlike some other tanks (not as massive as DK returns from ulti but i can light attack for both Stamina, Magicka and Health back)
An AoE minor maim.

The jewellery crafting is more a buff to NB tanks than most others because it allows the sort of shenanigans that i usually only find in sorc tank builds.

Our toolkit got expanded and you're still trying to claw for more or judge a skill before we even get to play with it?

Healing was never an issue with NB tanks (Leeching/ sap/ drain). Actual damage prevention has always been their weakness. Also in PVP that heal is next to useless with defile spam and standard PVP downscaling. They are literally the only class that doesn’t have a shield. Out of five classes. If they’re homogenizing roles, that’s a grave oversight.

It would depend on how you set your tank up as to how useful this is for you. In PvE that cloak looks to be strong (we haven't tested it yet). I currently have a flex spot where i use bone surge in trickier content because it's better than most others and provides synergies for group utility. Besides, i can recover the 3.7k cost pretty easily.

For PvP most health based shields aren't very good. We lack a class based damage shield, as do Wardens. Wardens have a spell projectile shield. Would i like a class shield? Maybe, but not at the expense of a skill we haven't even tested yet and looks to be beneficial.

I refuse to cry over what makes us different, good or bad.
We have so much in our toolkit. How many other classes as tanks can boast major evasion since the shuffle change? Or match our Ultimate generation? Or how about our ability to get back resources through lights and heavies?

Only the Sorc tank has easier access to minor resolve and minor ward. Our best access to major ward and resolve grants us Major expedition and heals us.

We currently lack an AoE minor maim but we're getting it if they keep the change to shade. As well as Minor protection.

NB tanks may not be easy to play, but we are not weak. NB tanks are rare today because they take skill to play well. ZOS took away the sap tank and those of us who remained built solid, well rounded tanks and we'll only get stronger.