Fake dps

Danksta

ArchMikem wrote: »

lolwut?

Since when would bonafide Tanks or Healers EVER intentionally queue as DPS?

You'd think never but I've ran PUGs on two separate occasions with two healers.

Eyesinthedrk

You can blame most of this on the “seamless transition from PVP to PVE” philosophy that ZOS doesn’t want to let go of. And the rest of it on the heavy armor SnB dps meta that they haven’t done anything about for the last year and a half.

Asardes

According to my Combat Metrics, most DDs that queued for me for random normal dungeons during the rewards event in December could have been classified as fake. I queued as "fake tank" on all characters (I did actually slot Inner Rage) but the Templar, where I queued as "fake healer" (my DPS skills also heal and support) and I ended up doing 55-80% of group DPS in every instance.

Anotherone773

We really need two different types of queues in this game. One, for the elites, who demand that everyone take the game as seriously as them, spend hours researching guides, get the perfect gear set with perfect stats( but without doing the content because they arent good enough to do the content), perfect their rotation on their perfect toon, research all dungeons/trials until they can do it blindfolded and drunk, and then queue for a dungeon.

And then we need another queue for the other 95% of players that just want to play the game casually and have fun and dont care about doing max dps/perfect rotations/guides/etc. And just want to enjoy a game and dont mind if someone in their group cant pull their weight, or doesnt dodge or block at the right time. Or mostly spams one ability, etc.

Them dang casuals are always ruining the game for the other 5% of the player base.

kylewwefan

This is not a problem in normal dungeons. Vet on the other hand, is a catastrophe. Im trying to level up undaunted on several toons atm and these random daily’s are just miserable for the most part.

Beardimus

@Teridaxus your banter was missed by most that replied

Well played sir

Aisle9

Anotherone773 wrote: »

We really need two different types of queues in this game. One, for the elites, who demand that everyone take the game as seriously as them, spend hours researching guides, get the perfect gear set with perfect stats( but without doing the content because they arent good enough to do the content), perfect their rotation on their perfect toon, research all dungeons/trials until they can do it blindfolded and drunk, and then queue for a dungeon.

And then we need another queue for the other 95% of players that just want to play the game casually and have fun and dont care about doing max dps/perfect rotations/guides/etc. And just want to enjoy a game and dont mind if someone in their group cant pull their weight, or doesnt dodge or block at the right time. Or mostly spams one ability, etc.

Them dang casuals are always ruining the game for the other 5% of the player base.

Normal Difficulty:

Anotherone773 wrote: »

... for the other 95% of players that just want to play the game casually and have fun and dont care about doing max dps/perfect rotations/guides/etc. And just want to enjoy a game and dont mind if someone in their group cant pull their weight, or doesnt dodge or block at the right time. Or mostly spams one ability, etc.

Veteran Difficulty:

Anotherone773 wrote: »

...for the elites, who demand that everyone take the game as seriously as them, spend hours researching guides, get the perfect gear set with perfect stats( but without doing the content because they arent good enough to do the content), perfect their rotation on their perfect toon, research all dungeons/trials until they can do it blindfolded and drunk, and then queue for a dungeon.

Hope this helps.
Safe travels.

*edit*
The OP was specifically asking people not queued as tank to avoid taunting (i.e. the only ability you spam is pierce armor or ransack)

Teridaxus wrote: »

2 tanks are a nightmare especially if the other one runs around and actually wins the taunt fight.

AhPook_Is_Here

When I dps i always keep inner fire in my rotation, taunt immunity makes fights interesting.

Eyesinthedrk

Anotherone773 wrote: »

We really need two different types of queues in this game. One, for the elites, who demand that everyone take the game as seriously as them, spend hours researching guides, get the perfect gear set with perfect stats( but without doing the content because they arent good enough to do the content), perfect their rotation on their perfect toon, research all dungeons/trials until they can do it blindfolded and drunk, and then queue for a dungeon.

And then we need another queue for the other 95% of players that just want to play the game casually and have fun and dont care about doing max dps/perfect rotations/guides/etc. And just want to enjoy a game and dont mind if someone in their group cant pull their weight, or doesnt dodge or block at the right time. Or mostly spams one ability, etc.

Them dang casuals are always ruining the game for the other 5% of the player base.

How about a 3rd queue for pipe dreamers who have no hope of making it past the third boss?

The fact is, if you think your heavy impen stam blade is going to light attack and poison inject it’s way through vet bloodroot, I’ve got news for you. It’s not going to happen.

Now if ZOS wants to add a “blame the elites” synergy that does an instant 50k damage to the boss, then maybe they can have a legitimate reason complane. But till then they are literally just wasting everyone else’s time.

Aisle9

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

When I dps i always keep inner fire in my rotation, taunt immunity makes fights interesting.

Giraffon

If I queue as a tank, play as a tank, but do 40% of group damage per combat metrics...am I Fake DPS?

Septimus_Magna

TequilaFire wrote: »

You PvE guys get more ridiculous all the time not everyone is a pro player.

Trust me, even when you set the bar really low there are plenty players that can disappoint you.

First room of trash mobs in vBC2 took more than two minutes to clear when I queued yesterday. At that point you already know the last boss will be impossible for these guys, if you even make it that far.

Peekachu99

I think you’re confused. “Fake DPS” are the CP 690 characters who do nothing but spam heavy bow attacks and the occasional poison injection. They are terrible, though, I’ll agree with you on that.

Also: good PVP players—at least all the ones I know and play with—have their Flawless and Trials vet titles. They require next to no support or sustain and have penetration to the gills. Some of the best players you’ll ever be lucky enough to queue with mostly PVP.

That said, a bad player is a bad player and they exist on both gameplay modes equally.

TequilaFire

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

You PvE guys get more ridiculous all the time not everyone is a pro player.

Trust me, even when you set the bar really low there are plenty players that can disappoint you.

First room of trash mobs in vBC2 took more than two minutes to clear when I queued yesterday. At that point you already know the last boss will be impossible for these guys, if you even make it that far.

What is funny is even in my PvP gear when I group with fellow PvP friends we have no trouble clearing any of the PvE stuff even trials. Not so in a mixed PvE/PvP group as the PvE players quit because our pace is slower. We are there to complete the content not rush through it. PvE guys just want to rush through because they do it all the time and don't have PvP to go back to.

Kuramas9tails

Giraffon wrote: »

If I queue as a tank, play as a tank, but do 40% of group damage per combat metrics...am I Fake DPS?

@Giraffon Yes. Now cut that out. You are a tank and should only tank. No DPS. Ever. You'll confuse the ESO community and start forum wars. Shame on you.

Eyesinthedrk

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

If I queue as a tank, play as a tank, but do 40% of group damage per combat metrics...am I Fake DPS?

@Giraffon Yes. Now cut that out. You are a tank and should only tank. No DPS. Ever. You'll confuse the ESO community and start forum wars. Shame on you.

If he’s doing it while holding the boss still then no. If he’s doing it because he’s spamming light attacks while running around like a chicken with his head cut off and pulling the boss out of my dots as soon as I cast them , then yes.

Katahdin

I think the DLC dungeons should have a different requirement from the normal dungeons.

Red flags go up when I see anyone in a normal DLC dungeon with less than 250-300 CP and less than 450-500 in vet.

Need to have 300 CP AND at least 150 skill points for normal DLC dungeons. Just CP isnt enough if you don't have enough skills unlocked. People leveling in Skyreach don't have enough skill points let alone knowing how to play their character.

I find even in the normal version of the DLC dungeons, anyone less than 300 CP struggles, especially the DPS.

I was in normal Falkreth last night with a group where the DPS each had less than 300 CP that literally took 3 minutes to DPS the mammoth to 50% (one just spammed snipe the whole time) and the healer couldn't survive the AOE and ground attacks in the second 50%. The DPS wouldn't or couldn't rez due to the ground interrupt. At one point I was doing 40% of the DPS as the tank spamming pierce on the front bar and executioner and trap on my back bar.

They all wiped repeatedly with just me (the tank) alive.

I had a feeling the DPS was too low on the first boss, but managed that because I kept the aggro the whole time.

If they can't manage to DPS the mammoth in less than 3-4 minutes, the sure aren't going to down Domihaus.

Don't get me started on a DPS that goes onto a #2 dungeon or DLC dungeon with 11K-14K health or a tank with less than 25k health....

Foobiscuit11

I've had this a couple times, getting a dps running s&b. If I'm tanking, all I've had to say is, "Hey, x, could you use a different ability or weapons? It's hard to tank if you keep taunting." That has fixed the problem both times.

zaria

Magdalina wrote: »

Lol. Some players don't actually know that Puncture/ice staff heavy is a taunt(or even what a taunt is). To be fair I didn't understand what "taunt" meant when I started the game either, you should just enlighten those poor souls THEN if that doesn't help, you kick.

I did actually get a healer queueing for fake dps in vet WGT once. Was hilarious. I was on a pure healer, they had healer/dps selected and - oh the irony! - they got selected for dps role...and all they did was spam Mutagen XD Me:"hey x, I'm the healer, can you just dps?" x:"can't you dps instead" me:"um no I can't, I'm on my pure healer setup and I queued as such. You queued as healer/dps" x:"well I was just looking for quick random..." Had to kick. Fortunately replacement didn't take long.

Help, has run into them but only in normal dungeons, low level players who level restoration staff on back bar and want to help casting mutagen,

Kuramas9tails

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

If he’s doing it while holding the boss still then no. If he’s doing it because he’s spamming light attacks while running around like a chicken with his head cut off and pulling the boss out of my dots as soon as I cast them , then yes.

I....my entire post was sarcastic.

QuebraRegra

Runschei wrote: »

Never seen this be a problem, but fake tanks/healers? Oh they are everywhere.

there are some ridiculous under performing DPS tho.. can't kill a single mob

Aeorath

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

If he’s doing it while holding the boss still then no. If he’s doing it because he’s spamming light attacks while running around like a chicken with his head cut off and pulling the boss out of my dots as soon as I cast them , then yes.

I....my entire post was sarcastic.

Something like 'I don't always DPS, but when I DPS I do less than 10k.'

Liley

I hate it more when people do pve with their pvp gear and skills, because they are obviously too lazy to change it for a dungeon. dps rip.

Runefang

Anotherone773 wrote: »

We really need two different types of queues in this game. One, for the elites, who demand that everyone take the game as seriously as them, spend hours researching guides, get the perfect gear set with perfect stats( but without doing the content because they arent good enough to do the content), perfect their rotation on their perfect toon, research all dungeons/trials until they can do it blindfolded and drunk, and then queue for a dungeon.

And then we need another queue for the other 95% of players that just want to play the game casually and have fun and dont care about doing max dps/perfect rotations/guides/etc. And just want to enjoy a game and dont mind if someone in their group cant pull their weight, or doesnt dodge or block at the right time. Or mostly spams one ability, etc.

Them dang casuals are always ruining the game for the other 5% of the player base.

So the 'elites' can't do the content but the 'casuals' can? Despite the DPS difference?

Sure try vRoM, vFH, vBRF HM with your casuals and see how you go.

blacksghost

Can’t help but find the fake team players much more disturbing. Fake tank fake dps fake healer? Fake teams prohibit the ability of any member playing the team role to their best. Hell some players fake the dungeons by avoiding half the bosses despite being asked/forewarned that a team member has aspects to complete or even the quests to do.

Kuramas9tails

Aeorath wrote: »

[Something like 'I don't always DPS, but when I DPS I do less than 10k.'

Hey! as a tank, that is some good **** right there.

Giraffon

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

If he’s doing it while holding the boss still then no. If he’s doing it because he’s spamming light attacks while running around like a chicken with his head cut off and pulling the boss out of my dots as soon as I cast them , then yes.

I....my entire post was sarcastic.

I was referencing my stamden tank running bow on the back bar and sword and board on the front. Doing the proper tank thing, but also keeping DOTs going from the back bar.

The missing information was that the group's entire DPS was like 15K. Don't you just want to cry when you see that on a clumped trash mob?

VaranisArano

Katahdin wrote: »

I think the DLC dungeons should have a different requirement from the normal dungeons.

Red flags go up when I see anyone in a normal DLC dungeon with less than 250-300 CP and less than 450-500 in vet.

Need to have 300 CP AND at least 150 skill points for normal DLC dungeons. Just CP isnt enough if you don't have enough skills unlocked. People leveling in Skyreach don't have enough skill points let alone knowing how to play their character.

DLC Dungeons do have a different requirement than base game dungeons. ZOS didn't go with your idea of a requirement, but they do have different requirements.

Normal Dungeons unlock progressives, with all of the II and DLC dungeons unlocking at level 45. Some of the progressive level unlocks are changing with the new DLC, but it didn't look that different from the CWC change.

As of CWC, Veteran dungeons unlock past level 50, with the DLC dungeons and Fungal Grotto II and Crypt of Hearts II unlocking at CP 160.

I understand your point about players struggling with DLC dungeons below CP 300, but I doubt you'll get ZOS to sign off on restricting players past the gear cap. At that point, a skilled player should be able to get the gear they need to complete those dungeons and CP is increasingly frontloaded, so there's no reason for ZOS to restrict the DLC dungeons past the gear cap. Skyreach leveling is a whole different matter and makes it so that no amount of CP will guarantee that players know how to play their character.

QuebraRegra

simple idea... an role based UNDAUNTED dungeon tutorial/qualifier to be completed for each character BEFORE they can use the queue.

- DPS targets (dummies, adds?) pop-up requiring the player to generate "x" DPS, and sustain DPS for "x" amount of time ("x" value varies for VET or NORMAL qualification). Boss target generates red circles that need to be avoided while the timer ticks down.

- Healer must heal targets for "x" health, and sustain for "x". Healer must be able to apply "x" number of buffs, and resources (targets auto active synergies).

- Tank must taunt for "x" duration (retaunt required), and block/absorb "x" amount of damage over "x" time. Tank must pply a debuff.

Each character must select each role qualifier separately, and must complete the "tutorial/qualifier" to be granted access to that role in the the activity finder queue system. Undaunted NPCs in qualifiers will walk around the player and shout "encouragement", or belittle (and tips) the under-performing player like a good DI

VaranisArano

Addition to the idea of a Tutorial.

Before you head into the tutorial, can the game PLEASE explain some basics?

Like:
What are the taunts in this game? (Puncture, Inner Fire, Tri-focus Ice staff Heavy Attack, and Tormentor set+ Charge abilities)
How do you animation cancel for additional DPS?
How do you mix DOTs and single target attacks and heavy attacks for an optimal rotation + good sustain?


Because let's be honest, there are some basic things about the combat system, especially things that are essential to getting high DPS like animation canceling, that simply aren't explained well or at all in the game itself. Once you start setting in-game restrictions on content based on certain minimum skill checks, you have to explain and teach how to accomplish those skills in greater detail. Unfortunately, that's something ZOS has mostly been unwilling to do. We'll see how the new Level Up Advisor does with steering new players.