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Dive change

Domander
Domander
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Dive: The damage from this ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

Mechanically doesn't this make it a crappier and slower force shock? (that does magic damage).
  • Narvuntien
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    It needed to be done. 4 birds and you were dead.

    I think the animation now needs shortening perhaps just an upward thrust of the hand rather than a swing, if its a bird it knows what to do.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Metafae wrote: »
    I would like them to make magwarden good in pve though. As they are now, they might as well just not exist.

    ZOS doesn't have any excuses left for why they can't do it. I will be extremely disappointed if we don't get major PvE buffs next patch. The class is a joke in PvE in its current state, and has been ever since it released.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 30, 2018 4:41AM
  • GeorgeBlack
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    Respect to all skilled Wardens who dont whine about a reasonable adjustment, rather shrug it off because they can rely on their skill.

    How about you adjust Dragon Knights ZOS?
    You know where they excel.
    You know where they eat dirt.
    Edited by GeorgeBlack on January 30, 2018 5:02AM
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Domander wrote: »
    Dive: The damage from this ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

    Mechanically doesn't this make it a crappier and slower force shock? (that does magic damage).

    Yep. No burning, no chilled, no concussed, no interruption. Just damage if you hit.
  • FlamingBeard
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    Technically, slotting Screaming Cliff Racer increases the damage of your other skills through Advanced Species passive, so there's that.

    More utility from your spammable (Force Shock), or more damage from your other skills instead of utility (Screaming Cliff Racer)?

    Short-term band-aid solution if anything but that's my view of the current state of the spammables of Warden.
    Edited by FlamingBeard on January 30, 2018 6:47AM
  • Anhedonie
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    Sorta. It also won't proc burning, concussion and maim.

    Poultry Strike needs to be drastically changed now.
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  • Qbiken
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    I would personally pick the status effects from using forcepulse/crushing shock 7 days/week. Status effects are crazy strong.
  • React
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    I only play medium armor stam classes. I personally feel that the nerf was necessary, however hat being said the stamina morph now requires a second effect. As of right now, it is by far the easiest projectile to avoid in the game and has no extra morph effect, such as the damage increase at range that the magicka version has.

    Also, stam morph of swarm please.
    Edited by React on January 30, 2018 3:02PM
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  • Hutch679
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    I only play medium armor stam classes. I personally feel that the nerf was necessary, however hat being said the stamina morph now requires a second effect. As of right now, it is by far the easiest projectile to avoid in the game and has no extra morph effect, such as the damage increase at range that the magicka version has.

    Also, stam morph of swarm please.

    Just the opposite of what should have happen... Mag got nerfed and you ask for a stamina buff. My stam warden is beast mode... idc about birds for him because stam warden is already ikn an OP state, but mag warden is definitely not in an OP. Guess we will see what happens. If they continue to underperform LOS will buff the hell out of something and break it.
  • ak_pvp
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    OK.

    Say we listen to the others, and speed up the projectile. What do you get. A crappier, less effects version of force pulse. Now because of the delay it can be used in combo with shalks and pulse. Don't take away the unique aspect.
    Edited by ak_pvp on January 30, 2018 3:13PM
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  • Anazasi
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    Honestly undodgeable abilities that can't be blocked are just stupid. Yeah the constant roll dodge players and the rock jumpers are a pain and perhaps that was the intent of this ability but all it has become in pvp is just idiots spamming birds and laughing because it's a "I win" button. The ideal behind skill is to be able to counter abilities not simply spam them.

    When Wardens were first introduced we took a group of 15 through low level pvp and everyone just spammed birds at anything and everything. It was OP than and its OP now. just change it to be blockable and the world will continue on its normal path towards balance.
  • coop500
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    Honestly undodgeable abilities that can't be blocked are just stupid. Yeah the constant roll dodge players and the rock jumpers are a pain and perhaps that was the intent of this ability but all it has become in pvp is just idiots spamming birds and laughing because it's a "I win" button. The ideal behind skill is to be able to counter abilities not simply spam them.

    When Wardens were first introduced we took a group of 15 through low level pvp and everyone just spammed birds at anything and everything. It was OP than and its OP now. just change it to be blockable and the world will continue on its normal path towards balance.

    It was/is blockable, what are you talking about?
    Blocking was it's hard counter but people still whine because they were too lame to block.
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  • Smmokkee
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    Metafae wrote: »
    I would like them to make magwarden good in pve though. As they are now, they might as well just not exist.

    ZOS doesn't have any excuses left for why they can't do it. I will be extremely disappointed if we don't get major PvE buffs next patch. The class is a joke in PvE in its current state, and has been ever since it released.

    Yeah they do.. much of the current team wasnt even around or had anything to do with the development of the warden. Thats why the class is ass.
  • Vaoh
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    Metafae wrote: »
    I play magwarden in pvp and this change is something I knew was coming and am ok with. I did think the birds were too strong.

    I would like them to make magwarden good in pve though. As they are now, they might as well just not exist.

    ^^^100% this

    It was annoying when I PvPed on Warden because those undodgeable birds are inherently OP and hardcounter certain builds. It was not satisfying in the slightest to kill a Medium Armor build with them. Can’t believe there are people who supported it from the start.

    In PvE, Wardens (both Mag and Stam.... mainly Mag) need a lot of help. I think that buffs have been delayed because the PvP crowd’s qq would’ve been tremendous if it happened while they were already so great in PvP.

    I look forward to the day that I can use Mag Warden in PvE effectively and *without* Eternal Guardian for MA proc spam.
  • Toc de Malsvi
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    Domander wrote: »
    Dive: The damage from this ability and its morphs can now be dodged.

    Mechanically doesn't this make it a crappier and slower force shock? (that does magic damage).

    No not really. Took me 5 min to throw together a Mag Warden on PTS to show comparison with skills actually scaled to level.
    JQMdmaZ.png

    I compared Screaming Cliff Racer vs Force Pulse just to account for maximum damage bonuses. This is irrelevant for most purposes as every Mag Warden is going to be running Screaming Cliff Racer not the other morph, as well as accounting for Crushing Shock's interrupt is much easier than estimating the possible additional damage scaling of Force Pulse.

    Cost:
    FP: 2241
    SCR: 2018

    Damage:
    FP: 4896 + any status effect damage + 1906 to additional targets if afflicted by burning/chilled/concussed
    SCR: 5622 +15% if near max range.

    Range: 28m for both.

    FP is 223 magicka more and does 726 less damage base. FP has powerful status effect's, but you are not guaranteed to proc them. SCR can do as much as 1569 more if at range, and is delayed which allows it to be lined up with other forms of burst, ie Deep Fissure+Ultimate.

    They are very different with both having advantages, being dodgeable doesn't kill SCR, it is too cheap and can be cast too often for people to dodge roll them all. If a player is dodgerolling SCR exclusively they are likely wasting stamina, Deep Fissure is not dodgeable as well as many ultimates that can be combined with it.

    I personally do not think this change will have any great effect on Mag Wardens in PVP, if you were relying on SCR being undodgeable then you weren't very good to begin with. The majority of what makes wardens strong in PVP remains, this is simply a small adjustment that benefits medium builds slightly.
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  • OtarTheMad
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    Honestly undodgeable abilities that can't be blocked are just stupid. Yeah the constant roll dodge players and the rock jumpers are a pain and perhaps that was the intent of this ability but all it has become in pvp is just idiots spamming birds and laughing because it's a "I win" button. The ideal behind skill is to be able to counter abilities not simply spam them.

    When Wardens were first introduced we took a group of 15 through low level pvp and everyone just spammed birds at anything and everything. It was OP than and its OP now. just change it to be blockable and the world will continue on its normal path towards balance.

    Definitely been blockable for quite a while now. I do agree though and I play Warden, that the change is fine but they really do need to make some adjustments for Wardens in PvE.
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  • WuffyCerulei
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    Birds being both higher-damaging and undodgeable was pretty strong. All magdens should have seen this coming. Birds are probs still good to use, but on my magden, I'd be using force pulse now.
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