Testing Hide Your Helm in 3.3.3

opaj

I tested out some of the functionality of Hide Your Helm. Let me know if there's anything else you want tested with this updated feature.

Note: I am testing the Hide Your Helm hat that appears in your collections. I consider the Hide Your Helm slot that you can use in the Outfit system to be a separate feature entirely.

Test 1: Quickslots

As expected, you can now add "Hide Your Helm" to your quickslots. This will be helpful for people on console who couldn't download an add-on to bind Hide Helm to a key.


Test 2: Interactions with Polymorphs

This was mentioned on ESO Live, but I will confirm it here: Hide Your Helm does not work with polymorphs. My condolences to all of the Xivkyn players out there.


Test 3: Interactions with Other Hats

For this next test, I volunteered my brilliant assistant, Oblivia Tharn.

Here you see Oblivia enjoying a day out in Daggerfall, in one of her favorite getups: the Cavalier of the Sworn Oath costume and Cadwell's Helm of Heroism:


Ah, but her head itches. She uses Hide Your Helm to scratch her scalp:


Now that her itch has been vanquished, she uses Hide Your Helm again to get her hat back:


What's this? Her Helm of Heroism has been turned into a bear's head!

Now that Hide Your Helm is a hat instead of a game option, it no longer works as a straight toggle if you are already wearing a different hat.
This means that, if you are pairing a hat with your costume and want the power to take your hat on and off, you will need 2 quickslots devoted to headgear: one for Hide Your Helm, and one to restore your hat of choice.

I appreciate that Hide Your Helm is more accessible now, but it appears to be losing quite a bit of functionality with this change.


Test 4: Interactions with Disguises

Hide Your Helm does not work with disguises, as per @jarydf 's thread on the matter.


Test 5: Interactions with Old API/Addons

I loaded JadeHelmetHide on the PTS and attempted to use it to hide my helmet. As expected, the old functionality is hidden from addons as well, so you won't be able to work around the new system that way.

That is good, by the way. Somebody could potentially mess up their character if they allowed a third party addon to mess with settings that can't be reversed in the vanilla client.

pauli133

Looks like the implementation proves as clumsy as expected.

Did they remove the old way completely? I've been a big fan of EasyHelmetToggle and a keybind.

opaj

The old way is no longer in gameplay settings. I haven't tested it with an addon, but I'd be surprised if it works--to leave the old helmet toggle API exposed with no manual way to change the settings could lead to problems. I'll test it out later this week if no one else beats me to it.

opaj

I've updated the first post with results of whether or not addons can still access the old hide helm functionality. As expected, they cannot.

I think it should be possible to make an addon that adds a toggle hat key and remembers what hat you're wearing to bypass the issue in Test 3, at least. Poking around the guts of some other addons to familiarize myself with lua. If it's not too complicated, I may take a crack at it myself.

Jhalin

Rest in peace Hide Helm, we'll mourn you and shun this *** replacement

sentientomega

It also doesn't work with disguises, I tested it yesterday.

ADarklore

Hopefully someone updates the current Hide Helm addons or writes a new one due to these changes.

Smmokkee

Booo! Shame! Shame! Shame!

kojou

Why couldn't they leave it in the menu and add it as a collectable item... best of both worlds.

zassasaurus

It's so stupid that it doesnt work with polymorphs, why take away functionality like that? The xvikyn polymorphs are now 100% pointless without being able to hide helm, as you can just use an outfit to get the xvikyn armor.

Subversus

As far as I've heard it's now an item in the collections, and as all items in the collections it can be put on the consumables wheel in the game, can't it?

HidesFromSun

Why did they mess with this, haven't they ever heard of 'if it's not broken, don't fix it'? and im sure there are MANY things that actually need fixing

klowdy1

As with WoW, I am confused why the devs needed to make this part of the outfit system, and not just leave it as an option in the menu.

opaj

Subversus wrote: »

As far as I've heard it's now an item in the collections, and as all items in the collections it can be put on the consumables wheel in the game, can't it?

@Subversus Yes. In the OP, the very first thing I tested was putting it in a quickslot (the consumable wheel).

What we wind up with is a system that's significantly more accessible for the console community, but with fairly stripped-down functionality. To return that functionality while retaining that accessibility would probably require a lot of work on the backend, so I don't really know what the best approach is for the devs.

Of course I'm sad that hide helm won't work the way it used to--but if we assume that 2/3 of the population is on console, I can understand that my complaint here isn't the one that needs the most attention.

Subversus

opaj wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

As far as I've heard it's now an item in the collections, and as all items in the collections it can be put on the consumables wheel in the game, can't it?

@Subversus Yes. In the OP, the very first thing I tested was putting it in a quickslot (the consumable wheel).

What we wind up with is a system that's significantly more accessible for the console community, but with fairly stripped-down functionality. To return that functionality while retaining that accessibility would probably require a lot of work on the backend, so I don't really know what the best approach is for the devs.

Of course I'm sad that hide helm won't work the way it used to--but if we assume that 2/3 of the population is on console, I can understand that my complaint here isn't the one that needs the most attention.

Exactly, so I don't really see what the problem is? All you need to do is keybind your quickslot nr on PC (I think you can do that?) or just do like me and use the quick menu. It's miles better than what we have on live imo.

opaj

Subversus wrote: »

Exactly, so I don't really see what the problem is? All you need to do is keybind your quickslot nr on PC (I think you can do that?) or just do like me and use the quick menu. It's miles better than what we have on live imo.

@Subversus
Here's a bullet point summary of things that Hide Helm can do on live but can't do on the PTS:

- If you have a polymorph, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a disguise, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a hat, you cannot easily toggle between wearing the hat and hiding your helmet.

Those are the problems. This is a downgrade for a lot of PC players. But, as I said, it seems like an upgrade for console players. Ideally, I'd like a solution that lets you add Hide Helm to your quick menu without taking away the current functionality.

Subversus

opaj wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Exactly, so I don't really see what the problem is? All you need to do is keybind your quickslot nr on PC (I think you can do that?) or just do like me and use the quick menu. It's miles better than what we have on live imo.

@Subversus
Here's a bullet point summary of things that Hide Helm can do on live but can't do on the PTS:

- If you have a polymorph, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a disguise, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a hat, you cannot easily toggle between wearing the hat and hiding your helmet.

Those are the problems. This is a downgrade for a lot of PC players. But, as I said, it seems like an upgrade for console players. Ideally, I'd like a solution that lets you add Hide Helm to your quick menu without taking away the current functionality.

I have never done any of the things you listed and I've been playing since launch. It's 100% an upgrade for me, and I very much doubt that the ones complaining about it on the forums are more than a vocal minority. I know change is unpleasant, but I don't think many people will even notice the change.

GiantFruitFly

Well technically it still is a feature loss, just one that is not as commonly encountered. Some people, like those with vampire characters probably rely on disguises and polymorphs more and that's one place where the old system came in handy.

Now it's a quickslot enabled collection item which does bring benefits of its own but unless you make room for it in the quickslot circle its still more than a single keypress. There were also addons that turned the old system into a single keypress.

Yes in the end the change is nowhere near gamebreaking but I consider the principle behind it troublesome. Instead of adding on to the old system it was removed and replaced by the new system which has its own redundant oddities.

Donari

I'm going to miss a single key press to toggle my hat on and off. I've been using SimpleHelmetToggle, which hasn't been updated in forever and still works perfectly.

I have GreyMind's bar for quickslots but haven't figured out how to swap which item I use via hotkey. That is, I can mouse over the bar and click another slot, and that is then the item used when I press Q, but I can't keyboard-swap the active items. So I'm stuck just using heal pots to stay alive, and occasionally while out of combat and standing still I can disengage my cursor from my camera and click another item I will be using for a while and not fighting (eg mudballs for a festival).

That won't suffice for quickly showing/hiding my hair, I fear. I really hope a mod will show up that lets the whole hide/show from Collections be accomplished with one toggle key press.

Eddyble

opaj wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Exactly, so I don't really see what the problem is? All you need to do is keybind your quickslot nr on PC (I think you can do that?) or just do like me and use the quick menu. It's miles better than what we have on live imo.

@Subversus
Here's a bullet point summary of things that Hide Helm can do on live but can't do on the PTS:

- If you have a polymorph, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a disguise, you can no longer hide your helmet.
- If you are wearing a hat, you cannot easily toggle between wearing the hat and hiding your helmet.

Those are the problems. This is a downgrade for a lot of PC players. But, as I said, it seems like an upgrade for console players. Ideally, I'd like a solution that lets you add Hide Helm to your quick menu without taking away the current functionality.

Well, as a console player, IMO this is a downgrade. Losing functionality in any way is. I just don't understand why they couldn't have taken the existing "convert to" function and expanded on it. Or, just made a "convert to" unlock for each style once you know the page or full motif. Then allow it to work on all gear. Now half the characters I have, which were using polys without helms, are gonna look worse.

skinnycheeks

Yeah, this needs to be fixed. They need the old "hide helmet" left in as well so that it will work with polymorphs and disguises.

Lylith

some things simply need to be left the *** alone.

idk why this is such an elusive concept for our overlords at zos.

the outfit system could've been implemented without touching the menu.

Truthsnark

I'm mad it's not going to work with Disguises anymore. They should have never taken this out of the settings menu.

opaj

The incomparable Binary Heart has made an add-on to work around the issues brought up in test case #3:

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1913-Cowl.html#info