Can we talk about Destructive reach for a moment? (Flame clench, Shock clench etc)

Valencer

You're assuming it's too strong because you see it being used a lot. It's actually being used a lot because someone thought it was a great idea to remove one of the few hard CCs magicka sorcerers have access to. Magicka sorcercers adapted and now here we are

The skill is fine. Every defense mechanic in the game works against it. Wish a lot of other skills still worked like that...

CrazYDunm3r

Seriously: dodge. The ability is fine
Edit: I'm tired of the nerf topics I see daily for skills that are absolutely fine in the way they perform.

Septimus_Magna

From a PVE standpoint the DOT dmg should be increased significantly.
If I use Shock Clench in a rotation it only gives around 1.2k dps on a magicka sorc dps parse.

Maybe one morph should have the range with high DOT dmg, the other one morph could have to stun and shorter range.

technohic

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Derra

technohic wrote: »

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Templar has one - i think also the templar option is a lot more desireable if you´re only looking for the cc.

technohic

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Templar has one - i think also the templar option is a lot more desireable if you´re only looking for the cc.

Yeah you’re right. Forgot about it. If you’re magicka; I always found the lightning reach better if you run a staff because it has a slightly longer stun. Aurora javelins is really short and the KB really risks putting the target out of range.

Merlin13KAGL

xeNNNNN wrote: »

"its blockable" "its dodgable" etc

Yes I am fully aware of that but this games balance must also align itself with the state of the game as well. Sure its dodgable but when its so damned laggy all the time you can dodge one but then end up rolling into one that followed straight after, hense the problem with the spam.

Are you factoring in lag also probably affects the caster, having to mash the button five times before one actually fires off? Or, how about the one they cast after you're already mid-dodge, but it doesn't show on their end due to the same lag you're complaining about?

It works both ways.

Derra

technohic wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Templar has one - i think also the templar option is a lot more desireable if you´re only looking for the cc.

Yeah you’re right. Forgot about it. If you’re magicka; I always found the lightning reach better if you run a staff because it has a slightly longer stun. Aurora javelins is really short and the KB really risks putting the target out of range.

It´s a double edged sword. I feel javelin is superpowerful if you´re playing it correctly and have a movement speed buff (not easy on templar).
Then there are templars that always knock you out of everyone elses range by spamming javeling effectively being a better rolldodge.

technohic

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Templar has one - i think also the templar option is a lot more desireable if you´re only looking for the cc.

Yeah you’re right. Forgot about it. If you’re magicka; I always found the lightning reach better if you run a staff because it has a slightly longer stun. Aurora javelins is really short and the KB really risks putting the target out of range.

It´s a double edged sword. I feel javelin is superpowerful if you´re playing it correctly and have a movement speed buff (not easy on templar).
Then there are templars that always knock you out of everyone elses range by spamming javeling effectively being a better rolldodge.

Yeah; I usually wind up with it on my templar as I don't run staves as often. There is a bug with it also I see people using to where if they keep spamming it for the target gets up, the target will keep getting KBed without immunity. Of course any time someone mentions it like Im doing now; I wind up running into more players doing it while I get zerged down.

Kartalin

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

No. Range stun it provides is an option for magplar and NBs that do not have one. Sorcs still have one albeit slow; and DKs have fists. Not sure why were talking about just this one everyone has access to. Without CC; a lot of things don’t die.

Templar has one - i think also the templar option is a lot more desireable if you´re only looking for the cc.

I like it in templar for the dot when I’m using skoria

Irylia

Please no.
But I’ll take my frag stun back.

dotme

xeNNNNN wrote: »

....because right now its worse than wardens spamming birds or Templar spamming Javelin. Its consistency is so good coupled with its half decent damage that you dont even need to care about CC immunity because you can just work spamming it into your rotation.

I dont want it removed its been here since launch really but I do want it nerfed a bit because its just obnoxious now. With the lag included in some situations due to it being so cheap and spammable its virtually impossible to break free or roll dodge it because its being spammed so much that you might as well just die on the spot. I've even seen whole zergs spamming it I mean its ridiculous

You keep using that word... (Princess Bride reference)

I get knocked off keep walls by this skill. Makes me laugh because I put myself in a spot where it's possible. I don't get mad. I think it's hilarious (Must be really funny for the caster). Please leave this and other skills alone.

technohic

dotme wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

....because right now its worse than wardens spamming birds or Templar spamming Javelin. Its consistency is so good coupled with its half decent damage that you dont even need to care about CC immunity because you can just work spamming it into your rotation.

I dont want it removed its been here since launch really but I do want it nerfed a bit because its just obnoxious now. With the lag included in some situations due to it being so cheap and spammable its virtually impossible to break free or roll dodge it because its being spammed so much that you might as well just die on the spot. I've even seen whole zergs spamming it I mean its ridiculous

You keep using that word... (Princess Bride reference)

I get knocked off keep walls by this skill. Makes me laugh because I put myself in a spot where it's possible. I don't get mad. I think it's hilarious (Must be really funny for the caster). Please leave this and other skills alone.

Haha; I will look for people on cliffs as a magblade and knock them off, even if it won't kill them, and just cloak out and walk away laughing. Even better when they get up and start frantically looking around holing block.

pzschrek

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Reach is expensive enough as to change the sustain needs of a build that is not using a masters destro

This.

You are just noticing it now because the stole the stun from our frags so we pretty much have to run it. I don't have a master destro so I changed my build to be able to spam this because you pretty much have to. This does direct damage, a dot, and a stun and can replace force pulse so doesn't take up more space on my bar. So in my opinion in open world is superior to giving up a bar slot to run rune cage which merely just stuns even though that one is unblockable.

All things equal, everyone's comments about it's drawbacks are extremely true. I don't want to run reach, tbh. I'd much rather have the stun back on my frags.

Potenza

LoL its NOT cheap - you better research your info on skill costs.

Goshua

if 8 times out of ten it wasn't dodged or is a plain MISS I could take this seriously

The morph that does more damage/additional effects actually needs a range increase IMO

Datthaw

Nerf! Nerf! Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!

And then when the nerf comes

Omfg why nerf?! Omfg why nerf?! Omfg why nerf?!

Said by every no skill, really need to l2p before they hit forums crybaby.

dotme

Datthaw wrote: »

Nerf! Nerf! Nerf! Nerf! Nerf!

And then when the nerf comes

Omfg why nerf?! Omfg why nerf?! Omfg why nerf?!

Said by every no skill, really need to l2p before they hit forums crybaby.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392757/plugin-chrome-han

^ This guy gets it... lol

Ankael07

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

We are talking about nerfing Destructive Reach now?

This skill might be annoying, but its not exactly setting the world on fire. Ask any Sorc if they would rather have the CC back on their Frags over Flame Reach.

Flame Reach can be dodged, blocked, absorbed, reflected, and spamming it makes the DOT part of it not work as it keeps getting reset.

I'd be far more concerned with all the archers now hiding spamming Lethal Arrow. Lethal Arrow that has a far greater range, can stun from stealth, 100% procs poisoned status, and Defiles healing by 30% on top of high damage...next patch without Miat's add on Lethal Arrow spam will be EVERYWHERE...you won't be able to have a single fight without someone spamming Lethal Arrows, and Lethal Arrow is FAR FAR more dangerous then Desto touch ever will be.

I would like to add the interrupt changes to this. During CC immunity we wont even be able to interrupt them

Minalan

Ankael07 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

We are talking about nerfing Destructive Reach now?

This skill might be annoying, but its not exactly setting the world on fire. Ask any Sorc if they would rather have the CC back on their Frags over Flame Reach.

Flame Reach can be dodged, blocked, absorbed, reflected, and spamming it makes the DOT part of it not work as it keeps getting reset.

I'd be far more concerned with all the archers now hiding spamming Lethal Arrow. Lethal Arrow that has a far greater range, can stun from stealth, 100% procs poisoned status, and Defiles healing by 30% on top of high damage...next patch without Miat's add on Lethal Arrow spam will be EVERYWHERE...you won't be able to have a single fight without someone spamming Lethal Arrows, and Lethal Arrow is FAR FAR more dangerous then Desto touch ever will be.

I would like to add the interrupt changes to this. During CC immunity we wont even be able to interrupt them

Next patch the bow-tatoes will be out in force:

Snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe...

Berenhir

Nerf Destructive Reach? Now i've seen it all.

DHale

Sigh... bad players will die to anything and everything. No matter what. I get hatevwhispers from using ice comet on my magic warden. Go figure.

Derra

They could patch all weapons and skills out of the game - the next day we´d see a "nerf fistfighting" topic.

xeNNNNN

DHale wrote: »

Sigh... bad players will die to anything and everything. No matter what. I get hatevwhispers from using ice comet on my magic warden. Go figure.

"bad players" lol assuming that cyrodil is lag free and is 100% within the players control.

If cyrodil was lag free I actually wouldnt complain about this, I would still feel like its obnoxious and in need of tuning. But because it isnt lag free and people ARE spamming this in a mostly large scale campaign then yes I will complain about something that is by all accounts rediculous. If nobody wants to admit its obnoxious because they like using it then fine, at least have the animation changed so it isnt a knock back anymore, because at this point I would much rather get fossilized.

I would say the bad players are the ones using this ability to begin with. I fought a mag sorc with this for 4 minutes next too sejanus the ONLY reason he killed me wasn't shooting star, it wasnt frag or streak or the fact he was spamming shields but because of the ridiculous flexibility of flame clench. Yeah okay so you get a bonus from slotting it, whatever you can use other abilities in the skill line for that. So frankly no Im not the bad player here. I dont rely on a meaningless and insigificant stat bonus when slotting an ability I also dont rely on hard stuns to win a fight. There is only so much you can do against a spammable ability that happens to deal decent damage and applies a hard CC with an animation that increases the duration of the CC by at least 1 second which is important.

ToRelax

xeNNNNN wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Sigh... bad players will die to anything and everything. No matter what. I get hatevwhispers from using ice comet on my magic warden. Go figure.

[...]
I would say the bad players are the ones using this ability to begin with. I fought a mag sorc with this for 4 minutes next too sejanus the ONLY reason he killed me wasn't shooting star, it wasnt frag or streak or the fact he was spamming shields but because of the ridiculous flexibility of flame clench. Yeah okay so you get a bonus from slotting it, whatever you can use other abilities in the skill line for that. So frankly no Im not the bad player here. I dont rely on a meaningless and insigificant stat bonus when slotting an ability I also dont rely on hard stuns to win a fight. There is only so much you can do against a spammable ability that happens to deal decent damage and applies a hard CC with an animation that increases the duration of the CC by at least 1 second which is important.

You also didn't win the fight, though...

technohic

xeNNNNN wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Sigh... bad players will die to anything and everything. No matter what. I get hatevwhispers from using ice comet on my magic warden. Go figure.

"bad players" lol assuming that cyrodil is lag free and is 100% within the players control.

If cyrodil was lag free I actually wouldnt complain about this, I would still feel like its obnoxious and in need of tuning. But because it isnt lag free and people ARE spamming this in a mostly large scale campaign then yes I will complain about something that is by all accounts rediculous. If nobody wants to admit its obnoxious because they like using it then fine, at least have the animation changed so it isnt a knock back anymore, because at this point I would much rather get fossilized.

I would say the bad players are the ones using this ability to begin with. I fought a mag sorc with this for 4 minutes next too sejanus the ONLY reason he killed me wasn't shooting star, it wasnt frag or streak or the fact he was spamming shields but because of the ridiculous flexibility of flame clench. Yeah okay so you get a bonus from slotting it, whatever you can use other abilities in the skill line for that. So frankly no Im not the bad player here. I dont rely on a meaningless and insigificant stat bonus when slotting an ability I also dont rely on hard stuns to win a fight. There is only so much you can do against a spammable ability that happens to deal decent damage and applies a hard CC with an animation that increases the duration of the CC by at least 1 second which is important.

Against a good player; it usually takes a CC and burst window to kill someone with heals, shields, cloaks, blocking and dodge rolls in the game

Joy_Division

xeNNNNN wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Sigh... bad players will die to anything and everything. No matter what. I get hatevwhispers from using ice comet on my magic warden. Go figure.

"bad players" lol assuming that cyrodil is lag free and is 100% within the players control.

If cyrodil was lag free I actually wouldnt complain about this, I would still feel like its obnoxious and in need of tuning. But because it isnt lag free and people ARE spamming this in a mostly large scale campaign then yes I will complain about something that is by all accounts rediculous. If nobody wants to admit its obnoxious because they like using it then fine, at least have the animation changed so it isnt a knock back anymore, because at this point I would much rather get fossilized.

I would say the bad players are the ones using this ability to begin with. I fought a mag sorc with this for 4 minutes next too sejanus the ONLY reason he killed me wasn't shooting star, it wasnt frag or streak or the fact he was spamming shields but because of the ridiculous flexibility of flame clench. Yeah okay so you get a bonus from slotting it, whatever you can use other abilities in the skill line for that. So frankly no Im not the bad player here. I dont rely on a meaningless and insigificant stat bonus when slotting an ability I also dont rely on hard stuns to win a fight. There is only so much you can do against a spammable ability that happens to deal decent damage and applies a hard CC with an animation that increases the duration of the CC by at least 1 second which is important.

This reads like a bad player to me.

Loses fight. Comes to forums complaining about an ability, sprinkling in misleading adjectives/adverbs and blaming everything but themselves or their build..

Beardimus

Think the threads covered this to death. It's expensive and mega visible, it has counters and it has downsides.

Sure if you have no situational awareness, and take multiple hits its annoying, and its run more prevalent now as C Frag lost its stun, but its manageable.

Is it really just a NerfSorc thread in disguise?

Minalan

Beardimus wrote: »

Think the threads covered this to death. It's expensive and mega visible, it has counters and it has downsides.

Sure if you have no situational awareness, and take multiple hits its annoying, and its run more prevalent now as C Frag lost its stun, but its manageable.

Is it really just a NerfSorc thread in disguise?

Sorcs are messed up right now and the potatoes know it, so they have to get clever in their whine threads.

Malamar1229

Lol another jab at sorcs.