What holds the Ebonhart Pact together?

Knowledge

The EP was, by all accounts, formed as a desperate strategic alliance amid the Akaviri Invasion of 2E 572. I understand the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and this does make sense in the story. Nonetheless, once the Akaviri were repelled it makes zero sense for this alliance to remain intact. All three of these races have dislike for each other and it seems that apart from facing certain doom (eg. Akaviri invasion) they would most likely disband their strategic alliance.

VaranisArano

Presumably the threat of the Daggerfall Covenant and the Aldmeri Dominion ending up in control of Cyrodiil is sufficient threat to make up for the lack of Akaviri invaders.

More specifically...

The Tribunal tell the Dunmer what to do and the Dunmer do it. Even if it means giving up their slaves and holding their noses to ally with the Argonians and their historic enemies, the Nords. The Tribunal doesn't like the Covenant and Dominion for various reasons mostly boiling down to "they don't listen to what we say" plus the historic rift between Chimer and Altmer.

The Argonians would prefer not to be enslaved and its not yet time for the Saxheel to smash the Dunmer back into the ashen bedrock of Morrowind (The Reckoning of Red Year is coming, slavers) so this is their best bet atm. Some Argonians think the Dominion is a better shot, and its up to the AD Vestige to figure out how that works out for them. Then again, if I were an Argonian living in Shadowfen, the Dominion is the last group I'd join up with.

The Nords don't like the idea of being ruled over by elves at all, so their King is nominally in charge of the effort to beat the Aldmeri Dominion. Jorunn was also very involved with the Akaviri Invasion and the alliance with the Dunmer and eventually Argonians there, so he's not as opposed to working with the Dunmer as some other Nord generals (like one you meet in the Rift).

Ratzkifal

Mead, hist sap and a lot of shein.

chris211

VaranisArano wrote: »

Presumably the threat of the Daggerfall Covenant and the Aldmeri Dominion ending up in control of Cyrodiil is sufficient threat to make up for the lack of Akaviri invaders.

More specifically...

The Tribunal tell the Dunmer what to do and the Dunmer do it. Even if it means giving up their slaves and holding their noses to ally with the Argonians and their historic enemies, the Nords. The Tribunal doesn't like the Covenant and Dominion for various reasons mostly boiling down to "they don't listen to what we say" plus the historic rift between Chimer and Altmer.

The Argonians would prefer not to be enslaved and its not yet time for the Saxheel to smash the Dunmer back into the ashen bedrock of Morrowind (The Reckoning of Red Year is coming, slavers) so this is their best bet atm. Some Argonians think the Dominion is a better shot, and its up to the AD Vestige to figure out how that works out for them. Then again, if I were an Argonian living in Shadowfen, the Dominion is the last group I'd join up with.

The Nords don't like the idea of being ruled over by elves at all, so their King is nominally in charge of the effort to beat the Aldmeri Dominion. Jorunn was also very involved with the Akaviri Invasion and the alliance with the Dunmer and eventually Argonians there, so he's not as opposed to working with the Dunmer as some other Nord generals (like one you meet in the Rift).

the deep unending hatred for dc and ad

MythicEmperor

Incompetence and foolishness? Only House Telvanni sees this so-called ‘Pact’ for what it truly is: A foreign attempt at influence over Dunmer tradition. The parasitic Argonian ‘ambassadors’ think they can stop us from enslaving who we want when we want. What a jest! They will soon be put back in their place.

NordSwordnBoard

Not too long ago, in our world...

The Germans allied with the Soviets to divide Poland between themselves. Fascists and Communists working toward a common goal.

Russia did the same with Imperial Japan out of necessity. Russia also became allies with Britain and later the US all in the same war. Its about geography and strategic success/survival for your nation, not racism or feelings. The ministry of propaganda uses those as motivators to accomplish the main goal.

Disbanding the pact would leave its members exposed to being gobbled up by a larger entity.

Nobody wants that, and sacrifices need to be made to ensure sovereignty. Ruling yourself is always better than not, etc.

RebornV3x

Because Zenimax..... In all honesty the Ebonheart Pact should have disbanded or not exist at all since theres no mention of the Ebonheart Pact in the other games and its gone by the time Tiber Septium comes about

LordSylvestrion

Maybe because they got to fight alongside each other and put away their differences once? And after realizing that together they are truly strong and managed to protect their lands together, as well as with other super-alliances sprouting up all around? I would see no other way.

They do hate each other, but after once proving they can put their differences aside, they prosper much better as allies.

I would imagine that wouldn't be that hard to understand, it feels only human and natural. The Pact however is on a very fragile foundation. Many within it despise it. That makes for some very interesting dynamics as together they are possibly the most powerful alliance in Tamriel(According to a lorebook) however it is kind of a glass cannon. Plus people get tired of fighting each other, and at the time of the Akaviri invasion Nord and Dunmer weren't probably at open war.

ascan7

I think you undervalue the importance of borders in a place without planes, submarines and advanced boats.
Imagine you are argonians. You ally with the Dominion because you hate the dunmer. Next thing that happen is that dunmer and nords attack you and the dominion is too far away to react. The Dominion can supposedly fend off the covenant from his borders, attack Imperial city and also send troops to protect Black Marsh.
If you notice all the 3 alliances ar made by adiacent territories. It would be too dangerous to have your neighbour as an enemy.

MythicEmperor

ascan7 wrote: »

I think you undervalue the importance of borders in a place without planes, submarines and advanced boats.
Imagine you are argonians. You ally with the Dominion because you hate the dunmer. Next thing that happen is that dunmer and nords attack you and the dominion is too far away to react. The Dominion can supposedly fend off the covenant from his borders, attack Imperial city and also send troops to protect Black Marsh.
If you notice all the 3 alliances ar made by adiacent territories. It would be too dangerous to have your neighbour as an enemy.

I guess that’s why Prussia never, ever allied with distant Britain to fight Austria, Prussia’s neighbor. Considering there being a third power involved in ESO, however, your point is still perfectly valid. It would be difficult to defend a distant ally and defend against different neighboring enemies at once, both having their own resources to pull from. Black Marsh would really just be dead weight, not that they aren’t exactly that within the Pact.

Kram8ion

Crazy glue

Marginis

chris211 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Presumably the threat of the Daggerfall Covenant and the Aldmeri Dominion ending up in control of Cyrodiil is sufficient threat to make up for the lack of Akaviri invaders.

More specifically...

The Tribunal tell the Dunmer what to do and the Dunmer do it. Even if it means giving up their slaves and holding their noses to ally with the Argonians and their historic enemies, the Nords. The Tribunal doesn't like the Covenant and Dominion for various reasons mostly boiling down to "they don't listen to what we say" plus the historic rift between Chimer and Altmer.

The Argonians would prefer not to be enslaved and its not yet time for the Saxheel to smash the Dunmer back into the ashen bedrock of Morrowind (The Reckoning of Red Year is coming, slavers) so this is their best bet atm. Some Argonians think the Dominion is a better shot, and its up to the AD Vestige to figure out how that works out for them. Then again, if I were an Argonian living in Shadowfen, the Dominion is the last group I'd join up with.

The Nords don't like the idea of being ruled over by elves at all, so their King is nominally in charge of the effort to beat the Aldmeri Dominion. Jorunn was also very involved with the Akaviri Invasion and the alliance with the Dunmer and eventually Argonians there, so he's not as opposed to working with the Dunmer as some other Nord generals (like one you meet in the Rift).

the deep unending hatred for dc and ad

Pure spite and vitriol. Plain and simple. Try going into PVP, you'll understand.

Asardes

The desire to cap Sotha Sil, in a similar way the desire to cap Shor holds DC together and the desire to cap Vivec holds AD together. The only common denominator is farming AP at Alessia Bridge

VaranisArano

Asardes wrote: »

The desire to cap Sotha Sil, in a similar way the desire to cap Shor holds DC together and the desire to cap Vivec holds AD together. The only common denominator is farming AP at Alessia Bridge

The Pact even has its own battlecry: "Remember the Chalamo!"

Edited to remove a double comment.

ShadowMonarch

Why would the orcs ever ally with the Redguards and Bretons? Oh yea zos needed the 3 factions to be absolutely perfect geographically!

That is what it really all boils down too, no real lore reason will ever really make sense. You can't just say, "hey all those people that hated eachother? Well they are going to work together to kill some people that they probably would realistically rather join or ignore then be paired with the people we are pairing them with."

Kierro

RebornV3x wrote: »

Because Zenimax..... In all honesty the Ebonheart Pact should have disbanded or not exist at all since theres no mention of the Ebonheart Pact in the other games and its gone by the time Tiber Septium comes about

Apparently you didn't complete the game, or paid little to no attention to Molag Bal's taunting during the story or anchors "No matter what you do, I'll erase your existence from history." In the end, Molag Bal won... He lost the battles, but won the war by destroying a hero. And Tiber Septim (believed to be a fake name used by a Breton) isn't born for another 80 to 100 years later, plus 20 or 30 when he becomes emperor. So 120-130 years after ESO... Factions, especially during war, don't always stay together.

LickingHistSap

The Ebonheart Pact formed out of necessity.

Skyrim is divided in two, and the Eastern army alone couldn't defeat the Akaviri invaders in Windhelm. In a last ditch effort, the Greybeards summoned Wulfharth to Nirn in order to defeat the Akaviri before they marched on Riften and onward to Morrowind.

Meanwhile, Almalexia knew even the Tribunal wouldn't be able to repel the Akaviri invaders alone, so she devised a plan with Jorunn to stop the Akaviri in Stonefalls. Together, the Tribunal launched a pincer attack on the Invaders alongside Jorunn and Wulfharth.

Still, the Akaviri managed to push the Dunmer forces back, despite three godlike beings (Wulfarth, Almalexia, Vivec) present for the battle. It wasn't until the Argonian shellbacks intervened, giving the Dunmer and Nords enough of an edge to prevent their assault on Ebonheart, and thanks to the Argonians, the Nords and Dunmer were given enough space to retreat and allow Vivec to flood the battlefield and drown the remaining Akaviri.

From then on, they made a Pact to join together in order to repel any future invaders, most probably the Daggerfall Covenant, and protect their lands from Daedric threats during the Interregnum, which soon turned into the Soulburst.

platonicidealgirlfriend

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Not too long ago, in our world...

The Germans allied with the Soviets to divide Poland between themselves. Fascists and Communists working toward a common goal.

describing that non-aggression pact as an alliance is slightly revisionist... both sides were putting off an inevitable conflict, both sides knew this, and both sides knew they knew this.

Emothic

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Not too long ago, in our world...

The Germans allied with the Soviets to divide Poland between themselves. Fascists and Communists working toward a common goal.

Russia did the same with Imperial Japan out of necessity. Russia also became allies with Britain and later the US all in the same war. Its about geography and strategic success/survival for your nation, not racism or feelings. The ministry of propaganda uses those as motivators to accomplish the main goal.

Disbanding the pact would leave its members exposed to being gobbled up by a larger entity.

Nobody wants that, and sacrifices need to be made to ensure sovereignty. Ruling yourself is always better than not, etc.

Wrong. Germans and Russia signed a non-aggresion pacted called the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Which basically stated that if either nation invaded poland the opposing nation would not declare war on them. Adolf (site censors his last name) had already planned to invade the Soviet Union before this, and Stalin knew that a war with German was going to happen eventually, that's why Stalin began rebuilding the Soviet military in early 1939.

Also, Russia never allied or signed a non-aggresion pact with Japan. And in fact in 1938 both of them had a border conflect that actually resulted in military engagement. During 1939 - to mid 1945 Russia kept a large force in the Mancurian area. And then in the last few weeks of the war Russia would declare war just for the opportunity to gain land from Japan. Japan had though about going to war against Russia to gain the mineral rich lands of Siberia. However since Japan was having problems fighting the Chinese, as well as forces such as ADBA-Com, they knew that they could not win a war against Russia. Russia was also too busy dealing with Germany to declare a war on Japan.

phermitgb

The Ebonheart pact is actually fairly easy to explain...

A general edict freeing a population that once used to be legally enlsaveable creates a an entire population ready to join in war - combine that with an effective geographical isolation from the other factions, and you've got an entire race that has a vested interest in securing it's freedom by becoming an indispensable asset in war...

I'll admit - the orcish alliance is a little harder to explain -but all it really needs is a moderately flexible human leader (Emeric) and a forward thinking orcish leader (Kurog) - you get emeric who's more interested in money and idealism than racism (turns out profit and enlightened self interest can overcome a lot of prejudices) and Kurog, who as much as he might WANT to kill all brettonians, knows that it won't necessarily actually work, ESPECIALLY in the face of the other alliances

And suddenly you've got...you know...RATIONAL people...making decisions about the future of their governments and their races, instead of people MIRED in emotional leftovers deciding the respective futures of their people

My point is, that alliance in the absence of alternate alliances, makes sense - now, if you wanted a truly kooky mixup...

alliance 1 - orcs, khajit, argonian - all the non mer races gathering in one place - except they'd be geographically spread across the continent in strategically inconvenient locations

2 - all the elves together...hehe...altmer and bosmer can BARELY stand each other, and while I can't recall any game where it's really been touched on DIRECTLY...there seems to be a very subtly understated hatred between dunmer and the other "elf" cousins in general

3 - all the humans together - again, trace the geography - racial "solidarity" notwithstanding, they're fairly extensively separated - and human beings are particularly well noted for getting along, ESPECIALLY with significant religious/political divides

the point I'm trying to make I guess is - none of these alliances is particularly daft on the surface, OR is particularly sensible - it's very much HALF believable "lore", and half-believable MMO game mechanics...

so, just roll with it

MythicEmperor

phermitgb wrote: »

The Ebonheart pact is actually fairly easy to explain...

A general edict freeing a population that once used to be legally enlsaveable creates a an entire population ready to join in war - combine that with an effective geographical isolation from the other factions, and you've got an entire race that has a vested interest in securing it's freedom by becoming an indispensable asset in war...

I'll admit - the orcish alliance is a little harder to explain -but all it really needs is a moderately flexible human leader (Emeric) and a forward thinking orcish leader (Kurog) - you get emeric who's more interested in money and idealism than racism (turns out profit and enlightened self interest can overcome a lot of prejudices) and Kurog, who as much as he might WANT to kill all brettonians, knows that it won't necessarily actually work, ESPECIALLY in the face of the other alliances

And suddenly you've got...you know...RATIONAL people...making decisions about the future of their governments and their races, instead of people MIRED in emotional leftovers deciding the respective futures of their people

My point is, that alliance in the absence of alternate alliances, makes sense - now, if you wanted a truly kooky mixup...

alliance 1 - orcs, khajit, argonian - all the non mer races gathering in one place - except they'd be geographically spread across the continent in strategically inconvenient locations

2 - all the elves together...hehe...altmer and bosmer can BARELY stand each other, and while I can't recall any game where it's really been touched on DIRECTLY...there seems to be a very subtly understated hatred between dunmer and the other "elf" cousins in general

3 - all the humans together - again, trace the geography - racial "solidarity" notwithstanding, they're fairly extensively separated - and human beings are particularly well noted for getting along, ESPECIALLY with significant religious/political divides

the point I'm trying to make I guess is - none of these alliances is particularly daft on the surface, OR is particularly sensible - it's very much HALF believable "lore", and half-believable MMO game mechanics...

so, just roll with it

I feel the need to point out that Orcs are indeed Mer (Orsimer).