Staffs (Staves) are NOT 2 handed weapons!

LokomotivBreath

I posted this in the General Discussion forum and thought I would give it a go here. Feel free to beat me up here as well, I am a healer so I'll get through it.


I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff wielding character does, is one handed. Don’t believe me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

--- Someone on the General discussion did point out that Healing Springs and Destructive Touch both use both hands. But I submit that that is just a visual mechanic. It is not imperative. That visual could be changed to look much like Mutagen or Combat Prayer. But the point is well taken. Still, if it looks like a one hander and is used like a one hander, then it must be a one hander.

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Ulo

I suppose it just comes down to balance and your observations are right although I do think it would look a bit goofy dual wielding staffs and I'm not sure how the mechanics of using a staff (magicka) and one handed (stamina) weapons would even function

LokomotivBreath

Ulo wrote: »

I suppose it just comes down to balance and your observations are right although I do think it would look a bit goofy dual wielding staffs and I'm not sure how the mechanics of using a staff (magicka) and one handed (stamina) weapons would even function

I agree with you about wielding 2 staffs. But what about a staff and a shield or staff and a sword.

SirAndy

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

You need the other hand to hold up your skirt so it doesn't drag in the dirt. Everyone knows that ...

LokomotivBreath

SirAndy wrote: »

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

You need the other hand to hold up your skirt so it doesn't drag in the dirt. Everyone knows that ...

ROFL!!!! Best reply yet!!! TOOOO funny!

Qwazzy

I'd rather they increase the staffs base damage to be equal with that of 2 hands.

davey1107

Regardless of the logic, they’ve mentioned this several times in ESO Live over the years. They always say they often consider it, but have no plans. I think they’re speaking more specifically to allowing a stave to be counted as two items from a set, so that mag builds could explore 5/5/2 setups.

I’m assuming they feel they’ve tried to balance things out so that they don’t really want to open that choice to 2h builds.

aeowulf

Qwazz wrote: »

I'd rather they increase the staffs base damage to be equal with that of 2 hands.

And increase the range of 2 handers to be equal to the range of staffs at he same time i guess?

aeowulf

Go train with a bo (6ft staff) and come back and tell us it is not a 2h weapon.

What they *could* do is show your character carrying both staves (the second representing the back bar) and a bar swap involves your character literally choosing to use his/her left hand over right hand.

But whilst I can't compete with SirAndy's 100% accurate answer, I would also like to add 'it would look silly' so just pretend your back bar weapon is in your offhand, (and place some stick shaped tape on your computer screen for effect)

Datthaw

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I posted this in the General Discussion forum and thought I would give it a go here. Feel free to beat me up here as well, I am a healer so I'll get through it.


I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff wielding character does, is one handed. Don’t believe me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

--- Someone on the General discussion did point out that Healing Springs and Destructive Touch both use both hands. But I submit that that is just a visual mechanic. It is not imperative. That visual could be changed to look much like Mutagen or Combat Prayer. But the point is well taken. Still, if it looks like a one hander and is used like a one hander, then it must be a one hander.

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

They block with 2 hands

KanedaSyndrome

I agree.

I support the following statements:

• 2 handed weapons should count as 2 set items
• Staves should count as 1 handed weapons or animations should be updated so they resemble such when being used

QuebraRegra

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I posted this in the General Discussion forum and thought I would give it a go here. Feel free to beat me up here as well, I am a healer so I'll get through it.


I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff wielding character does, is one handed. Don’t believe me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

--- Someone on the General discussion did point out that Healing Springs and Destructive Touch both use both hands. But I submit that that is just a visual mechanic. It is not imperative. That visual could be changed to look much like Mutagen or Combat Prayer. But the point is well taken. Still, if it looks like a one hander and is used like a one hander, then it must be a one hander.

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Respect the GANDALF!

Juhasow

Go on and use Healing Springs. I'll wait...

WhoThenNow7

Well you told me to find something they do with two hands and that you'd wait. Well... They actually use two hands to block with a staff..


Edit: Just saw you already knew that

ad4mss

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

Ulo wrote: »

I suppose it just comes down to balance and your observations are right although I do think it would look a bit goofy dual wielding staffs and I'm not sure how the mechanics of using a staff (magicka) and one handed (stamina) weapons would even function

I agree with you about wielding 2 staffs. But what about a staff and a shield or staff and a sword.

Like a Gandalf, he was using staff and sword, also you could have a staff and in off-hand some other item like I don't know a book with spells just to have a nice outfit ?

SirAndy

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

I agree.
I support the following statements:

• 2 handed weapons should count as 2 set items
• Staves should count as 1 handed weapons or animations should be updated so they resemble such when being used

Do you also support reducing the range of staves in that scenario? Or conversely, increasing the range of DW and 1H/S?

Because otherwise you're just asking for all possible benefits without any of the usual drawbacks ...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Are you simply making an academic argument? Clever, but I i dont see what it gets you.

Are you wanting to be able to equip two staffs for the extra set piece? I understand that argument, but it would require a lot of re balancing for sure. If you just gave every magic class an extra set piece without doing anything else, it would make them pretty OP. I also cant think of any fantasy lore (eso or otherwise) where someone wielding two 6-foot staffs is a thing.

Are you wanting to be able to equip a sword or shield in the other hand, then what, would they be able to use both the skills of the staff and either the DW or 1H shield lines (depending on what they equipped) on the same bar? Again, huge balance issues.

Common sense tells most people that to properly manage a 6 foot staff, you are going to need a free hand once in a while. I think you are nitpicking an artistic choice by the developers that keeps the staff in one hand most of the time. Any of the other scenarios would require a fundamental rework of the combat system.

SodanTok

SirAndy wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

I agree.
I support the following statements:

• 2 handed weapons should count as 2 set items
• Staves should count as 1 handed weapons or animations should be updated so they resemble such when being used

Do you also support reducing the range of staves in that scenario? Or conversely, increasing the range of DW and 1H/S?

Because otherwise you're just asking for all possible benefits without any of the usual drawbacks ...

Cmon, you are smarter than this.
Using range argument is the least effort possible. People use range as argument to explain everything. Bow/staff occuping 2 slots? Range. Bow/staff having less damage (same damage as 1H)? Range. Bow/staff having slow heavy attacks? Range. Bow heaving significantly lesser DPS than DW? Range. Staff having lesser DPS than DW? Range.
Got bored half way typing this, but for every disadvantage staves/bows ever had (or still have) there is someone using range argument.

SirAndy

SodanTok wrote: »

Cmon, you are smarter than this.
Using range argument is the least effort possible. People use range as argument to explain everything. Bow/staff occuping 2 slots? Range. Bow/staff having less damage (same damage as 1H)? Range. Bow/staff having slow heavy attacks? Range. Bow heaving significantly lesser DPS than DW? Range. Staff having lesser DPS than DW? Range.
Got bored half way typing this, but for every disadvantage staves/bows ever had (or still have) there is someone using range argument.

Right, because stave wielding Sorcs are currently so underpowered that you never ever see any of them running as DPS.

They clearly need *more* without any drawbacks ...

SodanTok

SirAndy wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Cmon, you are smarter than this.
Using range argument is the least effort possible. People use range as argument to explain everything. Bow/staff occuping 2 slots? Range. Bow/staff having less damage (same damage as 1H)? Range. Bow/staff having slow heavy attacks? Range. Bow heaving significantly lesser DPS than DW? Range. Staff having lesser DPS than DW? Range.
Got bored half way typing this, but for every disadvantage staves/bows ever had (or still have) there is someone using range argument.

Right, because stave wielding Sorcs are currently so underpowered that you never ever see any of them running as DPS.

They clearly need *more* without any drawbacks ...

No. Stave wielding anyclass are buffed to a point where they are balanced on same level as any build having the 12th piece. And if they receive 12th piece they will be nerfed to a point where they are again balanced.
This was never damage issue, but choice issue.

If there are 10 meta 5piece sets, there are 45 combinations how to wear 2 from these. If you limit builds to just one there suddenly are just 10 combinations.

Skullstachio

While I may not use staves, I do agree on the concept that most mages can use staves one handed, most mages usually either use the stave as a focal point to their own magic while casting magic with their empty hand, or they could use a combination of a stave in one hand with a special object of focus in the other hand (Namely spell books, ancient daedric artifacts, etc.) to amplify their own power further. (if it were to happen in ESOTU though, having a focal object or spell book in the other hand alongside a stave, the book or focal object should only grant non-combat bonuses until a proper implementation can be found.)

Betsararie

Do you have any idea how OP a full-functioning staff with SnB level defenses would be?

SnB alone is already OP with a mere sword, a full-functioning staff would be far too powerful.

Just a bad idea all around.

DoctorESO

.

Datthaw

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Are you simply making an academic argument? Clever, but I i dont see what it gets you.

Are you wanting to be able to equip two staffs for the extra set piece? I understand that argument, but it would require a lot of re balancing for sure. If you just gave every magic class an extra set piece without doing anything else, it would make them pretty OP. I also cant think of any fantasy lore (eso or otherwise) where someone wielding two 6-foot staffs is a thing.

Are you wanting to be able to equip a sword or shield in the other hand, then what, would they be able to use both the skills of the staff and either the DW or 1H shield lines (depending on what they equipped) on the same bar? Again, huge balance issues.

Common sense tells most people that to properly manage a 6 foot staff, you are going to need a free hand once in a while. I think you are nitpicking an artistic choice by the developers that keeps the staff in one hand most of the time. Any of the other scenarios would require a fundamental rework of the combat system.

So ueah I agree in this circumstance 1h staff is alot to ask for and would require a ton of balance. But....but skyrim... I would rock the sanguine rose a six foot staff and lob fireballs with my off hand

Nestor

I don't care if they nerf stick casters to maintain balance, because they would have too, I would like to be able to use 5+5+2 on all characters. And the Object idea mentioned above could take care of the aesthetics without having to overhaul animations. It could be a scroll or a wand or an orb or even a choice.

DoctorESO

.

Kwik1

I always figured they were casting a spell with the open hand and channeling it through the staff.

Meaning they would not be able to properly cast the staff spells if they had something in the offhand as it would interrupt the spell casting.

firedrgn

Hey we can cut staff in two then use to hands for a one hand job.

Seriously i would much rather see jewelry crafting . Yes i know it would be op.

Skullstachio

DoctorESO wrote: »

If you use and carry a two-handed weapon with only one hand, is that weapon no longer two-handed?

Tell that to the restoration staff, characters using resto staves hold it with one hand.

Also, staves are not exactly heavy based on its design, it is also based on the individuals strength.

Anrose

I agree with you, OP. Staves (and 2H stamina weapons, for that matter) should not count as 2 gear slots. Not everyone should automatically get the advantage of wearing 5-5-2 sets. There needs to be some sort of trade off.

Want to run 5-5-2? Better equip DW of sword/board. Magicka users can make good use of both DW and sword/board. Especially in PvP.

Also, +1 for your swagger.

f047ys3v3n

Folks have always wanted staves, bows, and greatswords to count as 2 set bonuses for the purpose of actually being able to properly assemble a 5,5,2 set on both bars of their toons. I expect it will happen at some point especially since it doen't have to come from the Wrobel department of ineptitude and it makes sense for it to be so. I think they probably just have things higher on the priority list. They seem to be having increasing trouble just keeping up with the necessary rate of content creation. PTS launches have noticeably been less and less complete.