Staffs (Staves) are NOT 2 hand weapons!

LokomotivBreath

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Ragnarock41

No. Just no.

Kiara

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Wrong. Your character gets staff in two hands while using purge/repentance for example

No shields for staff wielders. If anything, I'd like to see two wands wielders. If at all.
I threw you insightful though for your imagination

KingExecration

They're balanced as 2 handed weapons, we both know zos doesn't know what the definition of balance is so let's not scare them with more numbers please.

LiquidPony

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Have you tried ... blocking?

How about Healing Springs?

Destructive Touch?

Checkmate, broseph.

programcanaan

Balance - You can't just give the casters great damage and superior blocking than the Two Handed/Dualists

A Great Shield main arm and a catalyst off hand would be interesting as a tank alternative however

Samadhi

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

...
What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.
...

Have you walked much with a staff?
they are surprisingly cumbersome
personally use a cane for all my day-to-day support needs

Divinity: Original Sin allowed for shields to be equipped with wands which made sense,
while maintaining staffs as two handed weapons
ESO needs some sort of one-handed casting method

Also, Dark Souls lets my characters dual wield Ultra Greatswords or turtle with dual Great Shields
or pour points into my equip load stat and use both
ZOS catch up pls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1uM7XjPL9U

The_Brosteen

Its never been a logic issue it's always been a balance issue

Rainraven

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

ArchMikem

Just have 2handed weapons count as 2 set pieces and all will be well.

Iccotak

This is why I would like to see a "Spell Swords" skill line. 1h weapon and 1h spellcast. This would be the alternative to staves.

programcanaan

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Tasear

Maybe... maybe at a cost. Those allowing some dynamic skills for hybrids. But such a thing is expansion worthy.

Iccotak

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Have you met Battlemages?

BigBadVolk

lets make a sword and rune/book as melee version for one hand/dual wield and runes or something like that for ranged ones and I'll be happy with a back bar staff

LokomotivBreath

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Have you tried ... blocking?

How about Healing Springs?

Destructive Touch?

Checkmate, broseph.

You are quite correct BROtato chip, and I bow to your extensive ESO knowledge and wisdom. But C'mon, staffs are one handed 95% of the time otherwise and that is just a visual mechanic that could be altered for those few skills.
I'm a healer, so can you blame me for trying?

Ydrisselle

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Gandalf? (yes, I'm aware he's on another reality)

LokomotivBreath

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

I love that reply! Unfortunately, as a healer, people would frown on that.

SydneyGrey

I'd just like magicka characters to have an option to use two one-handed weapons like stam can.
I have a healer that I'd love to use a monster set on, but I can't, because it would mean I couldn't have two other complete sets. *Grumpy face*

programcanaan

Iccotak wrote: »

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Have you met Battlemages?

A proper Stave is not a good weapon. It is not a melee weapon. Would need something new. And we already have magical melees Fire Whip, Aedric Spear, etc.

Ruckly

A wizard uses one staff to channel his magic. Two would be superfluous(except maybe for that one scene in the Lord of the Rings when Saruman uses two staves). It's also used to support the wizards weight qua a walking stick. I assume staves are powerful enough to not require a focus in the off-hand saving the wizard the trouble of the extra burden. A shield with a staff also seems silly because Gandalf isn't Achilles. You might say 'well dual wielding results in higher damage than a wizards staff' but dual daggers or dagger and focus is common to necromancers and liches for focusing magic but the lens is likely completely outward thus a powerful mage with many reserves would be required otherwise the mage becomes exhausted.

Sword and shield on a battlemage makes sense but this is because the battlemage is conditioned for it. A staff and shield probably has ethereal issues. Focusing magic through a staff and then blocking could explode the mages mind between two dimensions whereas a battlemage doesn't focus magic through a staff but through himself while wielding a shield so his brain remains intact.

LokomotivBreath

Ruckly wrote: »

A wizard uses one staff to channel his magic. Two would be superfluous(except maybe for that one scene in the Lord of the Rings when Saruman uses two staves). It's also used to support the wizards weight qua a walking stick. I assume staves are powerful enough to not require a focus in the off-hand saving the wizard the trouble of the extra burden. A shield with a staff also seems silly because Gandalf isn't Achilles. You might say 'well dual wielding results in higher damage than a wizards staff' but dual daggers or dagger and focus is common to necromancers and liches for focusing magic but the lens is likely completely outward thus a powerful mage with many reserves would be required otherwise the mage becomes exhausted.

Sword and shield on a battlemage makes sense but this is because the battlemage is conditioned for it. A staff and shield probably has ethereal issues. Focusing magic through a staff and then blocking could explode the mages mind between two dimensions whereas a battlemage doesn't focus magic through a staff but through himself while wielding a shield so his brain remains intact.

Very well thought out. My reasoning for this post is not to use 2 staffs, but rather a staff and shield or staff and sword. But I like your thoughts, thanks.

Ratzkifal

Balance - and I don't mean game balance, I mean real actual stability of your character. If you watch animations like force shock or destructive touch, you can see that your character actually has to move the entire staff with his attack. Especially with force shock you can see the left arm moving in opposite direction of your right arm because of the rotating motion of your body. Apart from how rediculous dualwielding staves looks, it seems that the way ESO staves work, you just can't really fight properly with two of them. Of all the weapons in the game (and shields) the only thing that would make sense for a caster to have in his/her off-hand would be a shield as anything else is actually in the shield (more like a buckler) as it's the only one adding a meaningful purpose without sacrificing too much in terms of efficiency.

VaranisArano

Skyrim allowed players to dual wield staves. It looked ridiculous.

Rainraven

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Quite right, but if I'm OOM I'm not going anywhere. I have about enough stamina to break free twice, or or hold block long enough to get a really good view of what's about to kill me, or run for 1.5 seconds.

I'm not saying it would kill anybody - stun? maybe? - just that it would be a perfectly reasonable reaction to that situation. Much more so than the close-quarters lightning dribble or tiny puff of fire.

Gandalf OTOH would do that whirlwind move and pull out the surprise victory. sighs

SydneyGrey

VaranisArano wrote: »

Skyrim allowed players to dual wield staves. It looked ridiculous.

Yeah, I won't use swords with dual wield for this reason. All my DW toons use daggers.
However, they can create a new dual wield-type weapon for magicka characters that consists of a wand and rune, or something similar. That would look great.

Iccotak

programcanaan wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Have you met Battlemages?

A proper Stave is not a good weapon. It is not a melee weapon. Would need something new. And we already have magical melees Fire Whip, Aedric Spear, etc.

Yes we need hand spell casting.
But what I think the OP is eluding to is 1h weapon + Staff option would be nice.

Radiance

Wands & SpellBooks!!!

jssriot

Mag sorc dps can already get over 35k easily, wth more do you people want?

Jacozilla

Why are some people reacting with such skepticism and disdain to the thought of shield and spear as if it's a crazy idea?

'too cumbersome', etc. The thought seems to be the game can't / shouldn't do it because IRL mechanics don't support it logically,

Ever hear of Greek hoplites? Shield and spear armed, quite successful for the era they existed.

if you want to just say no, should not happen because of balance reasons, I can understand that. But pretending like it is some illogical ideas that makes no IRL sense is ignoring a staff is basically a short spear without the piercing blade

There are just as many viable reasons why a staff could be used one handed to cast spells in terms of just the pure handling of the physical motions than why it can't. The only way you could say it does not make sense is based on some "magic" limitations.

Which is also fine. But in that regard the game already has nonsense mechanics for mag and stam all over the place - the don't need to make IRL sense because fantasy games are just that. If a Greek warrior can handle a shield and spear just fine, what is the objection to a fantasy game make believe magic user wielding a staff one handed?

SydneyGrey

jssriot wrote: »

Mag sorc dps can already get over 35k easily, wth more do you people want?

Obviously there would be balance issues with using two staves at once.
But there wouldn't be balance issues if they introduced a different type of magicka-based dual wield, like the wand and rune I mentioned earlier. They'd be able to balance that fairly easily so it wasn't overpowered.