Staffs (Staves) are NOT 2 hand weapons!

Cpt_Teemo

Only he knows how to do it ^

klowdy1

Iccotak wrote: »

programcanaan wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

It's big, I carry it on my back, fine: 2h weapon.

But when people close on me and I'm low on magicka, I should be able to whack them with it. There is no way in hell I'd point my stick at them and dribble lightning when they're about to mow me down.

Mages should run when in close combat. Not knock em' dead with blunt force trauma

Have you met Battlemages?

Not in ESO.

Samadhi

Jacozilla wrote: »

...
Ever hear of Greek hoplites? Shield and spear armed, quite successful for the era they existed.
...

Those guys were One Hand and Shield stam builds tho,
how else would they carry around two heavy pieces of equipment?

Jacozilla wrote: »

...
if you want to just say no, should not happen because of balance reasons, I can understand that. But pretending like it is some illogical ideas that makes no IRL sense is ignoring a staff is basically a short spear without the piercing blade
...

Own a staff from a witch out in the woods of BC,
it is from a branch that was peeled clean by lightning
only use it for ceremonial purposes, as it is taller than me and awkward to walk with

For day-to-day walking, benefit from the advancements in technology that make a cane more viable for us short people

with that said, staff combat is traditionally a two-handed combat style, as it is not functionally the 'same' as a bladed spear
and is more about velocity and leverage than capacity to pierce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHvvEKpkLw4

cane combat as in traditional training is a one-hand 'club' style combat,
took personal interest in the traditional methods taught to the Indian police force
http://www.nycsteampunk.com/bartitsu/manuals/TheWalkingStickMethodOfSelfDefence1923.pdf

As OP is discussing magic, am thinking in terms of using a staff as a ritual focus,
for which it is already cumbersome on its own
when compared to something like a wand or Tarot deck
physical exertion typically impacts the capacity to focus

With that said, can respect a more shamanic approach of magic via ecstasy and exhausting the body through drumming or dance

Jacozilla wrote: »

...
Which is also fine. But in that regard the game already has nonsense mechanics for mag and stam all over the place - the don't need to make IRL sense because fantasy games are just that. If a Greek warrior can handle a shield and spear just fine, what is the objection to a fantasy game make believe magic user wielding a staff one handed?

Wizards r puny weaklings too busy with their books to be capable of physical excellence
they r a bunch of skirt-wearing nerrrrrrds

SilverIce58

Actually, according to what is known about magic in the Elder Scrolls world, the only people who should really be using staves is (Azra Nightwielder) those who cannot cast magic of their own (just like scrolls). I'd love to have some 1h magic weapons like a rune that can be used with another weapon, or used with another rune/book like a mage really would. I don't like the idea of wands bc they've never been implemented into the elder scrolls before, and theres no precedent for using them since nobody makes them.

NyassaV

I don't get why I can't just have a bloody rune/focus/book in my other hand

MLGProPlayer

programcanaan wrote: »

Balance - You can't just give the casters great damage and superior blocking than the Two Handed/Dualists

A Great Shield main arm and a catalyst off hand would be interesting as a tank alternative however

Casters have horrid damage right now. Stamina characters have completely left them in the dust after the last few patches.

It was the other way around before, of course. But right now, magicka is horrible.

SydneyGrey

Hollery wrote: »

I don't get why I can't just have a bloody rune/focus/book in my other hand

If they did that, they'd have to nerf the damage that staves do, which will mess up anyone who doesn't want to use the rune. They'd have to come up with another weapon instead of a staff that magic users can use one-handed, like a wand.
... Unless it's a special staff type with reduced damage, that's used specifically for this dual-wielding. Like, instead of an "ice staff" or "lightning staff" it would be a "rune staff."

teladoy

Actually this guy is right. ZOS fix this mess.

Ankael07

Where do you take out your siege weapons from? If youre gonna talk about realism why only talk about staves? Is it because it would buff your enemies in pvp?

We need 2h,bow and staves count as 2 pieces for the same reason why siege weapons count as 1 in inventory slots. Convenience and more variety in gameplay. Why prevent people from going 1 monster set and 2 more normal 5 piece sets?

Izaki

Kiara wrote: »

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Wrong. Your character gets staff in two hands while using purge/repentance for example

No shields for staff wielders. If anything, I'd like to see two wands wielders. If at all.
I threw you insightful though for your imagination

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

Knootewoot

Gandalf also fought with a staff and sword. And yes, every attack is a one-handed one.

I wish i could dual wield staves so i can fear 2 full sets and a monster set. And a flame staff in one hand and a healing staff in the other.

Sheezabeast

Staves. Are. Not. One. Handed. Weapons.

YOU ARE NOT GANDALF.

Faulgor

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Actually, according to what is known about magic in the Elder Scrolls world, the only people who should really be using staves is (Azra Nightwielder) those who cannot cast magic of their own (just like scrolls). I'd love to have some 1h magic weapons like a rune that can be used with another weapon, or used with another rune/book like a mage really would. I don't like the idea of wands bc they've never been implemented into the elder scrolls before, and theres no precedent for using them since nobody makes them.

This is what enchanting should have been tbh. Maybe they could add new enchantments that transform the weapon's element from physical to fire/frost/shock/magic. I mean, the last enchantment they added was in Imperial City. All other crafting professions have had additions since then.
Alternatively, conjured weapons.

D0PAMINE

You can already HA your magicka bar full very very quick, two staves would really be OP for a lot of reasons.

SydneyGrey

Izaki wrote: »

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

Aaaannnddd?
It's not a huge break from lore. We CAN have new things in this game, you know, so long as they are lore-compatible, and wands are lore compatible, even if we've never had them in one of the ES games before. I mean, we have flaming lava camels now, and cowboy hats. They've already broken away from lore a bit. I don't want the game to stagnate just because people are afraid of adding something new to the game.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj

I request a beating of a dead horse post please

Aisle9

MH... dual wielding staves, I wonder where I saw that...

ah, right


Would you rather look silly while you handle 2 sticks at the same time or look like a badass ?



Say no to staves
#SpellswordArmy

Knootewoot

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

Aaaannnddd?
It's not a huge break from lore. We CAN have new things in this game, you know, so long as they are lore-compatible, and wands are lore compatible, even if we've never had them in one of the ES games before. I mean, we have flaming lava camels now, and cowboy hats. They've already broken away from lore a bit. I don't want the game to stagnate just because people are afraid of adding something new to the game.

And if we look at Skyrim, the latest single player TES game. You could dual wield spells and combine them to get more better spells.

In fact in Morrowind i could cast fireballs out of my pants while casting poison out of a ring and heal using my shirt.

So wands would not be so hard to imagine in this magical world.

And currently when i attack with any staff it is always one-handed. I should be able to hold a tomb or someting to cast other spells.

In fact i don't even want to use a staff anymore. I want just like other TES games to cast balls out of my bare hands.

Just let us craft magical rings so we can cast without the use of a silly staff. (or either brass knucklers)

MornaBaine

Iccotak wrote: »

This is why I would like to see a "Spell Swords" skill line. 1h weapon and 1h spellcast. This would be the alternative to staves.

I would be so all over this. I don't really want new classes. I want lots of new skill lines for existing classes.

itsfatbass

It's a wooden staff, it's not even heavy.

Aisle9

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

It's a wooden staff, it's not even heavy.

So you think you can hold 2 at the same time ?

Danksta

Healing Springs

Voxicity

Block

DisgracefulMind

It's pretty common in most RPG games that staves are considered two-handed weapons.

Paralyse

As a destro sorc I am not in favor of the idea of dual-wielding staves. Not only would it be ridiculous-looking, it would cause a nightmare of balance issues as ZOS was forced to rebalance all staff-based skill lines based on now having double DPS, double healing, etc. To me, it's as illogical as dual-wielding bows.

If you have ever picked up and held a Japanese rokushakubo or watched a bojutsu practitioner, you know that staff combat requires two hands due to the weight and the length of the staff - 6 shaku (about 180cm) and usually between 0.5kg (demos/speed training/tournament) to 1.5kg+ (training weight for endurance, strength and heavy strikes) - it is not something you can easily or comfortably utilize as a weapon without both hands, whether blocking, thrusting or striking. Obviously, these real-life limitations might not need apply in a fantasy setting where magic is involved, but I think the use of a single two-handed staff is more immersive and truer to the historical concept of a combat mage.

The "sorcerer" fantasy, to me, has always relied on wizard archetype classes using a single staff and magic warding spells to deflect incoming melee and ranged attacks, or using a one-handed weapon/no weapon at all with your hands being used for both offensive and defensive magics. My build in Skyrim is full stealth/dagger - 1h sword but with max all schools magic; i can use my left hand to conjure, ward, heal, or attack while my right hand is for melee combat and stealth sneak attacks/backstabs. It's fun sneaking into a room full of Draugr, backstabbing one for the instant kill and then using Fire spells to destroy the rest of the room before they even get out of their tombs.

Samadhi

Izaki wrote: »

Kiara wrote: »

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Wrong. Your character gets staff in two hands while using purge/repentance for example

No shields for staff wielders. If anything, I'd like to see two wands wielders. If at all.
I threw you insightful though for your imagination

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

are we counting the trash enchanted wands from Elder Scrols 2: Daggerfall with regards to 'seen' ?

Really just want to be able to not equip any weapons and have two bars of magic, personally

Kuramas9tails

I just imagined my character holding 2 staves on one bar. Yeah. Wont work.

SilverIce58

Samadhi wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Kiara wrote: »

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Wrong. Your character gets staff in two hands while using purge/repentance for example

No shields for staff wielders. If anything, I'd like to see two wands wielders. If at all.
I threw you insightful though for your imagination

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

are we counting the trash enchanted wands from Elder Scrols 2: Daggerfall with regards to 'seen' ?

Really just want to be able to not equip any weapons and have two bars of magic, personally

A lot of things from ES2 Daggerfall have been retconned in the following games. Unless it's been in another game, Daggerfall things shouldn't be taken as 100%

WIZZARD2K

Fang_of_Lorkhaj wrote: »

I request a beating of a dead horse post please

Granted.

https://giphy.com/gifs/week-media-person-RL0xU1daTlMoE

Samadhi

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Kiara wrote: »

LokomotivBreath wrote: »

I would like to challenge the status-quo.

Go log on to your favorite character that uses a staff. Destruction or Restoration, it doesn’t matter. Just go log on to it. I’ll wait......

Now, equip your staff. What do you see? Your toon standing there with his/her staff in one hand. Right?

Next, cast a spell or light or heavy attack with that staff. Go ahead, I’ll wait.....
What did you see? A one-handed attack, right?

Hmmm. As a matter of fact, everything a staff weilding character does, is one handed. Don’t beleive me??? Go check. I’ll wait......

Before you flame me, I know that the one and only time a staff toting toon uses 2 hands is to block.

What’s your point Loko? I’m glad you asked. And maybe you know where I’m going with this already, but I’ll say it out loud.

Why can’t staffers use a second weapon or a shield just like any other character that is only sporting a one handed weapon? Makes sense to me, but I look at things differently than most.

I’m not looking for an argument (tho I’m sure I’ll get one from some) , I’m mearly stating a point that I feel is a valid one.

Let the debate begin. I’ll wait........

Wrong. Your character gets staff in two hands while using purge/repentance for example

No shields for staff wielders. If anything, I'd like to see two wands wielders. If at all.
I threw you insightful though for your imagination

Ever seen a wand in any of the Elder Scrolls game? Nope.

are we counting the trash enchanted wands from Elder Scrols 2: Daggerfall with regards to 'seen' ?

Really just want to be able to not equip any weapons and have two bars of magic, personally

A lot of things from ES2 Daggerfall have been retconned in the following games. Unless it's been in another game, Daggerfall things shouldn't be taken as 100%

So if ESO retcons functional, useful wands into series
aside from the Lena's Wand quest memento
then, at that point, how should Daggerfall's trash wands be viewed?

or are we supposed to strictly limit what 'counts' to some other specific era of the series