Cliff Racer needs counter play

Kram8ion

Agree op this is a plain and simple request for countering the uncounterable
Just as numerous pages for counters to NB ganking that ruined us it’s a fair request you can’t give one of your kids chocolate and the other one a lemon

Waffennacht

If you have only one attack over and over on a recap, it's a L2P issue

BohnT

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you have only one attack over and over on a recap, it's a L2P issue

Hm maybe because it's the only attack spammed from the zerg you can't avoid?

ak_pvp

You have an attack. It has a classification, that classification has a counter. You should have to use timing and brains to go against that counter, because they have to use timing and brains to use that counter.

Maybe an ability doesn't have a counter that other abilities of a similar kind have. And that's fine, but it needs to have another counter or caveat in itself. Eg. Sub assault. It's unblockable and conventionally unblockable, however it has a counter/caveat of movement, only one at a time and a timer. This means it requires both a brain to use and to counter. So in my opinion it is a well done ability.

Bird doesn't. It's not dodgeable. And it has no other conventional counters than shield/block/los. Which isn't usable for every build. It's not melee so can't be dealt with via range, and it's not dodgeable or reflectable. The only way to deal with it is to either eat it, or hide.

Many ideas have been suggested. Either make it dodge and reflectable. It's uniqueness being in its slight delay and status as a pet instead. Or, following the pet theme. Make it one active at a time. Which ruins the point of a pure spammable. But allows it to be used as a decently frequent burst tool.

VaranisArano

ak_pvp wrote: »

Bird doesn't. It's not dodgeable. And it has no other conventional counters than shield/block/los. Which isn't usable for every build. It's not melee so can't be dealt with via range, and it's not dodgeable or reflectable. The only way to deal with it is to either eat it, or hide.

Shield/block/LOS aren't usable for every build? Okay, maybe not damage shields, but every class can block and every player can, with a little bit of situational awareness, LOS. I'll admit that birdspam seems to be winning this game of rock, paper, scissors pretty handily, but let's not pretend that blocking and LOS aren't available to everyone willing to learn to play.

ak_pvp

VaranisArano wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Bird doesn't. It's not dodgeable. And it has no other conventional counters than shield/block/los. Which isn't usable for every build. It's not melee so can't be dealt with via range, and it's not dodgeable or reflectable. The only way to deal with it is to either eat it, or hide.

Shield/block/LOS aren't usable for every build? Okay, maybe not damage shields, but every class can block and every player can, with a little bit of situational awareness, LOS. I'll admit that birdspam seems to be winning this game of rock, paper, scissors pretty handily, but let's not pretend that blocking and LOS aren't available to everyone willing to learn to play.

Mmmm.

Block hurts builds like stamsorc who need to get moving nd use mobility. It stops regeneration and puts you in a vulnerable position. As for LOSing bird, unlike something like sub, where you can see it being cast and LOS reactively, LOS vs projectiles means you have to be untargetable pre cast, because it'll just wall clip otherwise. It's just hiding and not being hit which isn't a counter. In that case playing PVE is a counter. No birds to be found.

That doesn't mean you can't los. It's necessary to a 1vx. But saying it's a proper counter isn't true.