Remove base offensive/defensive ticks

lao · January 2018

dotme wrote: »

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lao wrote: »

...all keeps do is create zerg hotspots but we dont want zergs. we want small scale pvp all over the map instead of brainless zerg battles at keeps while leaving 99% of the zone unused. there is nothing competitive about zerg fights. its just something casual noobs can do where they dont get instantly melted and where they can be as awful as they want cos they arent a factor anyway. the game needs to move away from that BS and move towards a highly competitive small scale battle arena where only the strongest survive. its beyond absurd that a random noob can join a pug zerg, go to a keepfight, have absolutely zero impact on the outcome and end up with more AP/hour than the best 1vX/small scale players cos he got some dumb AF tick for 30k from a capture while he has done *** all to deserve it. that crap needs to go, right now

Sorry but that all that talks about "we want" and "noobs" sounds a bit elitist in a game that is supposed to be friendly to new players (It has to be to survive economically). Do you not want inexperienced players to play the game? The day ESO stops appealing to new players is the day the money starts to run out.

ESO has battlegrounds for the "highly competitive small scale battle arena where only the strongest survive" and Cyrodiil is for large scale open world war. Strategically taking back keeps to draw the enemy back from the front lines, and earning points towards winning the campaign is all part of the game.

Point is, you care more for AP than others may. Some may just want to win the campaign, or farm, or gank, or quest. Different strokes for different folks.

Faction-locked maps have been happening before offensive ticks, and I honestly don't think removing ticks will change night-capping at all. Just my 2 cents.

elitists carry a game...not casuals. casuals will just play the next big mmo when it launches and never look back. the problem is if you make your game appeal to those casuals the elitists will get bored and leave aswell. thats when the game really dies.

its insanely dumb in every possible way imaginable to develop an MMO in a way that pleases the casuals but screws over the elitists. even if you look at it from a population point of view. lets say a random casual plays 10 hours a week on average while an elitist palys 8 hours a day on average, some play WAY more than that but lets just keep it low for the sake of proving the point. the total playtime of the elitist amounts to 56 hours a week. therefor an elitist is worth 5.6 casuals in terms of population and like mentioned before thats an elitist with really low playtime. most will play way more than that.

but lets just look at practical examples of failed MMO´s that tried to cater to the casual crowd rather than the elitists. (since theres so many of those)

warhammer = dead and buried

swtor = lost more than half of its population within the first month, had to go f2p early on due to lack of population, went through god knows how many server merges to not die off completely.

gw2 = does anyone even remember that game at this point lol?

archeage = somewhat successful in asia since dem asians love their grind. deader than dead in europe and also forced into f2p to not die completely

BDO = pretty much same as archeage

WoW = always has a somewhat healthy population due to blizzard and warcraft theme but lower player numbers than ever before and it only peaks for a month or 2 when a new expansion launches. after that more than half the playerbase quits again every time for the last 5 expansions. if it wasnt for blizzard and the warcraft theme that game would have died off ages ago tho.

Aion = also started as a sub based game and had to go f2p after cos lack of a playerbase.

Rift = dead and buried.

the list goes on and on and on.

meanwhile there is games like UO, DAoC, EvE that have been around 20 years and still rock a stable playerbase of loyal hardcore players. UO and DAoC never had to go f2p either. you dont see many casual or new palyers in these games but literally no1 cares cos those who are still playing have been playing for 2 decades now. they dont need an item shop to stay afloat either. those dev teams just understood to focus on the type of player that matters to keep them hooked rather than catering to a crowd of idiots that will jump ship on first chance to play something new anyways.

then you have Darkfall which only went down cos it was managed by the most incompetent developer in gaming history. however it had such a loyal fanbase that not only 1 but 2 fanbase communitys contacted the developer and bought the license with their own money to bring it back. that is true passion and a game that caters to casuals will never be able to achieve a loyal fanbase like that.

if ESO keeps going down the casual road it will eventually just die in the not so far away future and literally no1 will shed a tear.

so yes my initial statement remains true. no developer with any trace of a working brain and understanding of how gaming communitys work will ever give a flying fox about casuals. only greedy shortsighted clueless businessmen without any understanding or passion will do so for a quick cashgrab. however if a developer wants to create a legacy that earns much much much more money in the long run he will cater to the hardcore elitist crowd and spit in the face of a casual whenever he has to.

Ghostbane · January 2018

Whenever you receive a tick, you get a debuff called "The Handbag of Gluttony" or something elselike poetic. This debuff is unclickable, and prevents the current toon from earning any further tick for an agreed duration.

Ticks remain
Can't farm ticks like the present
Hamburgers
PVDing an entire map with resources would amount to too much time if you had to wait, say 10m between each take.

Derra · January 2018

Ghostbane wrote: »

Whenever you receive a tick, you get a debuff called "The Handbag of Gluttony" or something elselike poetic. This debuff is unclickable, and prevents the current toon from earning any further tick for an agreed duration.
Ticks remain

Can't farm ticks like the present

Hamburgers

PVDing an entire map with resources would amount to too much time if you had to wait, say 10m between each take.

Seems reasonable - but might create undesireable situations where ppl refuse to take resources bc it might lock them out of taking the "phat keep tick"

Ghostbane · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ghostbane wrote: »

Whenever you receive a tick, you get a debuff called "The Handbag of Gluttony" or something elselike poetic. This debuff is unclickable, and prevents the current toon from earning any further tick for an agreed duration.
Ticks remain

Can't farm ticks like the present

Hamburgers

PVDing an entire map with resources would amount to too much time if you had to wait, say 10m between each take.

Seems reasonable - but might create undesireable situations where ppl refuse to take resources bc it might lock them out of taking the "phat keep tick"

ZoS can make the buff be un-refreshable. If someones timer is at 5m left, and they took a resource, it would not reset.

Ley · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

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Ley wrote: »

I think people should be forced to PvP in a way that I approve and all other forms of PvP should be fruitless. /s

Well the issue is that taking an undefended keep is no player versus player interaction. It´s player versus environment (namely npcs and keep doors).

Your argument is invalid as it´s no other form of pvp in the first place.

You may want to do nothing but directly fight other players in small battles and that's fine. Some people want to put a lot of pressure on the map by taking over strategic keeps, cutting off transit routs, helping their alliance push emp or dethrone an existing emp. Some want huge zergfests. Some want to go around and solo resources. Others just want to come in, get some AP and get out. Players can also go into Cyrodiil and deliberately attempt to avoid pvp encounters all together (skyshard hunting, delves, quests). If people want to PvD (player vs door) then they should be able to do so and others are welcome to come and kill them. There's nothing wrong with doing any of these things.

The game offers other places to go and experience small scale battles outside of Cyrodiil (battle grounds, IC, dueling).

Derra · January 2018

Ley wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I think people should be forced to PvP in a way that I approve and all other forms of PvP should be fruitless. /s

Well the issue is that taking an undefended keep is no player versus player interaction. It´s player versus environment (namely npcs and keep doors).

Your argument is invalid as it´s no other form of pvp in the first place.

You may want to do nothing but directly fight other players in small battles and that's fine. Some people want to put a lot of pressure on the map by taking over strategic keeps, cutting off transit routs, helping their alliance push emp or dethrone an existing emp. Some want huge zergfests. Some want to go around and solo resources. Others just want to come in, get some AP and get out. Players can also go into Cyrodiil and deliberately attempt to avoid pvp encounters all together (skyshard hunting, delves, quests). If people want to PvD (player vs door) then they should be able to do so and others are welcome to come and kill them. There's nothing wrong with doing any of these things.

The game offers other places to go and experience small scale battles outside of Cyrodiil (battle grounds, IC, dueling).

I´m not saying they shouldn´t be able to do that - i´m just saying they shouldn´t be rewarded as generously as they are.

idk · January 2018

Rianai wrote: »

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idk wrote: »

Recruit more to your campaign.

But EP is busy with colouring Sotha red and DC enjoys a blue map on Shor and they won't give up their free rewards for no reason, so where should those players be recruited from?

Lol. It still not a reason to change things as OP suggests. Seriously.

Derra · January 2018

idk wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rianai wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recruit more to your campaign.

But EP is busy with colouring Sotha red and DC enjoys a blue map on Shor and they won't give up their free rewards for no reason, so where should those players be recruited from?

Lol. It still not a reason to change things as OP suggests. Seriously.

lol you haven´t given a single reason for not doing it. seriously is there any argument for the status quo?

antihero727 · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

for any resource/keep/outpost that is not your alliances native objective.

Here we go again another post with no justification or reason just an “I know all” milenial style statement. Let me guess your a 1vx and have no need for ticks so there is no need for them at all.

Ley · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ley wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

I think people should be forced to PvP in a way that I approve and all other forms of PvP should be fruitless. /s

Well the issue is that taking an undefended keep is no player versus player interaction. It´s player versus environment (namely npcs and keep doors).

Your argument is invalid as it´s no other form of pvp in the first place.

You may want to do nothing but directly fight other players in small battles and that's fine. Some people want to put a lot of pressure on the map by taking over strategic keeps, cutting off transit routs, helping their alliance push emp or dethrone an existing emp. Some want huge zergfests. Some want to go around and solo resources. Others just want to come in, get some AP and get out. Players can also go into Cyrodiil and deliberately attempt to avoid pvp encounters all together (skyshard hunting, delves, quests). If people want to PvD (player vs door) then they should be able to do so and others are welcome to come and kill them. There's nothing wrong with doing any of these things.

The game offers other places to go and experience small scale battles outside of Cyrodiil (battle grounds, IC, dueling).

I´m not saying they shouldn´t be able to do that - i´m just saying they shouldn´t be rewarded as generously as they are.

New patch they're talking about getting 10k AP just for going afk in battlegrounds and yet flipping keeps is too generous? At least flipping keeps and resources helps your faction overall in the campaign.

I don't disagree with your sentiment though, just your proposed solution. I think perhaps increasing the rewards for other activities to be more balanced would better than nerfing the rewards for current activities. There's a problem with that though, inevitably you will have loads of people doing whatever grants the most AP per hour. At least now with the current offensive tick bonus, it promotes a dynamic, ever changing map. Change it and the new meta may become oil farming in a tower, bridge farming, gate farming, turtling in a keep... Are these better alternatives?

I love a good fight and yet I feel like they're not particularly rewarding in terms of AP gained.

Another thing that is noteworthy, the change to AOE caps in the next patch may make it more difficult to flip keeps and sustain zergs. If zergs just end up getting slaughtered, they'll hopefully break into smaller, spread out, organized groups. This could end up spreading out fights creating more dynamic battle fronts. I'm not going to be overly eager to ride all the way to flip the undefended enemy home keeps if it's just going to result in my death and another long ride back.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos · January 2018

lao wrote: »

thats the point. all keeps do is create zerg hotspots but we dont want zergs. we want small scale pvp all over the map instead of brainless zerg battles at keeps while leaving 99% of the zone unused. there is nothing competitive about zerg fights. its just something casual noobs can do where they dont get instantly melted and where they can be as awful as they want cos they arent a factor anyway. the game needs to move away from that BS and move towards a highly competitive small scale battle arena where only the strongest survive. its beyond absurd that a random noob can join a pug zerg, go to a keepfight, have absolutely zero impact on the outcome and end up with more AP/hour than the best 1vX/small scale players cos he got some dumb AF tick for 30k from a capture while he has done *** all to deserve it. that crap needs to go, right now

What are you talking about here really? This got nothing to do with Cyrodiil.
Cyrodiil was meant to be an immense map with strategic battles with the aim of winning the campaign. It wasnt meant as a "small scale battle arena" - who even wants this in Cyro? That would completely negate the awesome map overall.

They need to go back to the roots, and rethink it from the perspective of "roleplaying to win the map, strategically" or something like that.

All this nonsense about smallscaling... everyone is suddenly an op smallscaler who destroys zergs if zos gave them dynamic ult gen? No, get real please.

There are so many smallscalers that they all must have 1vxed eachother... smallscalers must be 1vxing smallscalers by this point... get real.

Takuto · January 2018

Rather than 6k for all keeps:

9k for re-taking your own alliances tri-keeps (2,250 ap for resources)
6k for non tri-keeps (1.5k for resources)
3k for enemy tri-keeps, (750 ap for resources) as well as the furthest keep on the map from your alliance base

This would reduce the total amount of AP gained from taking everything on the map by 36k, and increase the AP of taking back your own home keeps by 15k.

If you wanted to take it further you could prevent keeps/resources from upgrading if they were enemy held tri-keeps, this would make it easier for off-hours pugs to take back home keeps if they were undefended.

Ixtyr · January 2018

Remove all ticks.

It's a good idea.

Seriously.

lao · January 2018

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

show previous quotes

lao wrote: »

thats the point. all keeps do is create zerg hotspots but we dont want zergs. we want small scale pvp all over the map instead of brainless zerg battles at keeps while leaving 99% of the zone unused. there is nothing competitive about zerg fights. its just something casual noobs can do where they dont get instantly melted and where they can be as awful as they want cos they arent a factor anyway. the game needs to move away from that BS and move towards a highly competitive small scale battle arena where only the strongest survive. its beyond absurd that a random noob can join a pug zerg, go to a keepfight, have absolutely zero impact on the outcome and end up with more AP/hour than the best 1vX/small scale players cos he got some dumb AF tick for 30k from a capture while he has done *** all to deserve it. that crap needs to go, right now

What are you talking about here really? This got nothing to do with Cyrodiil.
Cyrodiil was meant to be an immense map with strategic battles with the aim of winning the campaign. It wasnt meant as a "small scale battle arena" - who even wants this in Cyro? That would completely negate the awesome map overall.

They need to go back to the roots, and rethink it from the perspective of "roleplaying to win the map, strategically" or something like that.

All this nonsense about smallscaling... everyone is suddenly an op smallscaler who destroys zergs if zos gave them dynamic ult gen? No, get real please.

There are so many smallscalers that they all must have 1vxed eachother... smallscalers must be 1vxing smallscalers by this point... get real.

gtfo zergling !

esotoon · January 2018

lao wrote: »

gtfo zergling !

You realise that Cyrodiil was built for and is the only place to do large scale PVP? If you do small scale you also have IC and Battlegrounds. If you want to do solo you also have IC and Duelling. So perhaps instead of trying to stop those who enjoy large scale from playing in the only place they can play, you should be the one to gtfo if you do not enjoy that type of pvp?

Jawasa · January 2018

@lao one darkfall server is allready dead second is most likley dead on arrival, daoc pop is super low (5000 players esrning realm points a week in the end off 2017), ultima is low pop aswell. Only eve have a good poupulation. The truth is that blizzard made a more casual eq and made the most poupluar mmo off all Times that is still the biggest mmo today. You need to Make both casual and more hardcore players want to play Thats what blizzard did.

lao · January 2018

Jawasa wrote: »

@lao one darkfall server is allready dead second is most likley dead on arrival, daoc pop is super low (5000 players esrning realm points a week in the end off 2017), ultima is low pop aswell. Only eve have a good poupulation. The truth is that blizzard made a more casual eq and made the most poupluar mmo off all Times that is still the biggest mmo today. You need to Make both casual and more hardcore players want to play Thats what blizzard did.

well first off all 5000 isnt super low considering a daoc server can only hold 3500 players at a time and the game is all about 8v8. the game can operate perfectly fine on 500 players as all you need is 15-20 8v8 groups for a super healthy game. its true tho that live population took a hit ever since broadsword took over and tries to change the game into a more modern type of MMO. just another proof that modern MMO philosophy is BS.
also keep in mind that alot of ppl are playing on uthgard and alot are also waiting on origins relaunch. in that game ive played with and against literally everyone one that matters so believe me when i say when its dying i will be the first one to know

yes RoA is slowly bleeding out but thats because BPG are mongrels and treat the game like a hobby and they focus on the wrong things aka adding content instead of fixing the mem leak that has been in the game for 6 months now. they also only have one part time developer. DND however is managed by europeans and therefor much more professional by default so i wouldnt count them out just yet.

ultima isnt really low pop either as alot of ppl are playing free servers there aswell and yet despite the fact that both DAoC and UO both have their populations split between the live servers and private servers they still never had to go f2p in order to keep going.

and lol at WoW appealing to hardcore players. it does not. it never did. it never will. those who consider themself hardcore in WoW are roleplayers and mostly awful players. proof: look at reckfuls embarrasing performance in darkfall. beeing top tier in WoW is basically the same as beeing far below average in a real MMO.

Joy_Division · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

idk wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recruit more to your campaign.

But EP is busy with colouring Sotha red and DC enjoys a blue map on Shor and they won't give up their free rewards for no reason, so where should those players be recruited from?

Lol. It still not a reason to change things as OP suggests. Seriously.

lol you haven´t given a single reason for not doing it. seriously is there any argument for the status quo?

Status Quo? No. I wouldn't hand out 1.5K AP for PvDooring a resource with 20 allies.

That being said, ZoS's increase of resource ticks has encouraged more people to venture away from the faction stack and take them. And for defenders to stop looking at the map at a frontline keep to take them back. Even if this creates just a few more non faction-stack fights per hour, it's a win and I'm OK with people getting something for moving away from the faction stack.

6K for PvDooring a keep is even more ridiculous, but I'm willing to swallow this or some other insanely high AP grab as it prompts DC guilds to not just mindlessly go through the Chalman Milegate with the rest of the DC alliance. There has been a noticeable increase in the amount of times they'll hit Dragonclaw, Bruma, and Kingscrest. On the PC NA server, there is a running joke that the Blood of Daggerfall Guild thinks that Kingscrest in a DC homekeep and they must take it for a morale boost; they try to take that thing like clockwork. and I think that's great, guilds and fights are spread at least somewhat, which is what we want.

We have seen how Cyrodiil has played out when PvDooring resources and keeps was worth virtually nothing (100 AP) and it did not prevent "Nightcapping," did not prevent AP tryhards (they'd siege all the walls down to a keep, then then repair them all), did not incentivize people to break away from the factions tack (only the 1vX or solo players would take resources, something they'd do regardless of the AP system). So I'd rather keep the status quo as it does promote somethings I want to see even if the scoring is ridiculous.

More to the point, I get the desire that AP should come from primarily fighting players. But what this did back in the day (and still promotes too much as it is) is "farming" inexperienced players rather than playing the map. Before the AP was increased for resources, there were numerous PC NA guilds, particularly on the EP side, that openly boasted that they ignored the map and made all of their strategic decisions based on farming enemy players. As much as I'd love to call them out for doing this, I found myself just as guilty of it at times. When Arrius's resources were being taken, I said "F*** that," I'm not going all the way there just to either PvDoor something and stand on a flag for 4 minutes or get stealth bombed by a half a dozen people. Let someone else deal with that crap, I'm going to Alessia Bridge. Now, I will go out of my way to just stand on those flags twiddling my thumbs. It's even worse when an important keep is being attack by an enemy organized guild + Pugs and our best guild is having a grand old time in the Faregyl Barn because they get way more AP doing that than even trying to play the map.

Also, it would be very disappointing to win an epic keep capture and get nothing for it. All the more reason to just hang out at Alessia Bridge and ignore objectives.

AP try-hards, Emperor traders, and other sorts of unwanted PvP activity happen when there either a low overall population or an imbalance in one faction's favor. That is the root of the problem and suggestions for reform should be directed at that rather than being applied universally to all servers and include those that are relatively competitive and at least are somewhat improved from what we've seen in the past. Perhaps reduce the AP tick gain when one faction has a higher population

Derra · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

AP try-hards, Emperor traders, and other sorts of unwanted PvP activity happen when there either a low overall population or an imbalance in one faction's favor. That is the root of the problem and suggestions for reform should be directed at that rather than being applied universally to all servers and include those that are relatively competitive and at least are somewhat improved from what we've seen in the past. Perhaps reduce the AP tick gain when one faction has a higher population

Well i´d prefer dynamic population caps - but every time those get suggested ppl get equally upset and largely make the same arguments presented here.

There is no way to get out of the current situation while making everyone happy (especially not dominant/farming factions).

Master_Kas · January 2018

lao wrote: »

show previous quotes

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

lao wrote: »

thats the point. all keeps do is create zerg hotspots but we dont want zergs. we want small scale pvp all over the map instead of brainless zerg battles at keeps while leaving 99% of the zone unused. there is nothing competitive about zerg fights. its just something casual noobs can do where they dont get instantly melted and where they can be as awful as they want cos they arent a factor anyway. the game needs to move away from that BS and move towards a highly competitive small scale battle arena where only the strongest survive. its beyond absurd that a random noob can join a pug zerg, go to a keepfight, have absolutely zero impact on the outcome and end up with more AP/hour than the best 1vX/small scale players cos he got some dumb AF tick for 30k from a capture while he has done *** all to deserve it. that crap needs to go, right now

What are you talking about here really? This got nothing to do with Cyrodiil.
Cyrodiil was meant to be an immense map with strategic battles with the aim of winning the campaign. It wasnt meant as a "small scale battle arena" - who even wants this in Cyro? That would completely negate the awesome map overall.

They need to go back to the roots, and rethink it from the perspective of "roleplaying to win the map, strategically" or something like that.

All this nonsense about smallscaling... everyone is suddenly an op smallscaler who destroys zergs if zos gave them dynamic ult gen? No, get real please.

There are so many smallscalers that they all must have 1vxed eachother... smallscalers must be 1vxing smallscalers by this point... get real.

gtfo zergling !

Lol

Jawasa · January 2018

@lao So How are hardcores good for Making money? Because that what you posted? Dark fall pekade at 300k subs and lost most in a year warhammer had over 800k subs and 50k the year it shut down same as daoc had 2008 and it has only gotten smaller after that. EVE has gone free to play aswell if i understand it. So most of the games you claim are succesfull actually have such a small playerbase that most games that shutdown had a bigger pop when they did.

So i'd say if you want to make money you should most likley look at eso instead of DAOC. DAOC had 50k subs after 4 years vs ESO 2,5 million active players a month and 10 million sold copies after almost 4 years.

I do agree with you that the ESO changes to help casuals have been mostly bad changes but it dosnt change that catering to hardcores and not giving a *** about casuals is a *** stupid idea if you actually want to make big money from your game.

Murador178 · January 2018

I got even a better idea. We could make a more interesting version of prox det(same radius):

Costs more stam or mag dependant of ur bigger ressource:

does zero dmg as long as there are less than 5 players hit - if 5 players or more - these players just die - This would make bigger groups to spread out and stop camping of top of each other - and if they camp they just die like it should be.

Derra · January 2018

Jawasa wrote: »

So i'd say if you want to make money you should most likley look at eso instead of DAOC. DAOC had 50k subs after 4 years vs ESO 2,5 million active players a month and 10 million sold copies after almost 4 years.

Are you really comparing a game that launched in 2001 (when broadband internet was just becoming a thing in the first place) to eso that launched in 2014?

JobooAGS · January 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

I got even a better idea. We could make a more interesting version of prox det(same radius):

Costs more stam or mag dependant of ur bigger ressource:

does zero dmg as long as there are less than 5 players hit - if 5 players or more - these players just die - This would make bigger groups to spread out and stop camping of top of each other - and if they camp they just die like it should be.

hmm, could be a better solution to permablockers than the pts block changes, but idk. thoughts?

Jawasa · January 2018

@Derra i'm comparing that daoc started to hemorage players after four years. So that list of games are not a golden standard except eve because that game have been big for a extremly long time.

Derra · January 2018

Jawasa wrote: »

@Derra i'm comparing that daoc started to hemorage players after four years. So that list of games are not a golden standard except eve because that game have been big for a extremly long time.

DAoC started to hemorage players after 4 years as any other mmo already on the market at that time because world of warcraft released at that time and made the previously niche mmo genre a mainstream phenomenon.

I don´t necessarily disagree with your statement though.
However it´s true that pvp/hardcore playerbase seems to be more loyal to a game and i have no idea why no developer up until this day tried to make the game appealing to both casual and hardcore pvp and pve players.

Jawasa · January 2018

I completly agree with you on that a game need to cater to both groups because i think you need both. Because if all casuals leave most hardcore leave as well because it just becomes stale and no new players join.

Sanct16 · January 2018

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jawasa wrote: »

@Derra i'm comparing that daoc started to hemorage players after four years. So that list of games are not a golden standard except eve because that game have been big for a extremly long time.

DAoC started to hemorage players after 4 years as any other mmo already on the market at that time because world of warcraft released at that time and made the previously niche mmo genre a mainstream phenomenon.

I don´t necessarily disagree with your statement though.
However it´s true that pvp/hardcore playerbase seems to be more loyal to a game and i have no idea why no developer up until this day tried to make the game appealing to both casual and hardcore pvp and pve players.

The problem is that it's not about making the best game but making the most money. Why invest into making hardcore players happy when they are very loyal anyway? The main source of income for ZOS is the casual crowd.

Derra · January 2018

Sanct16 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

@Derra i'm comparing that daoc started to hemorage players after four years. So that list of games are not a golden standard except eve because that game have been big for a extremly long time.

DAoC started to hemorage players after 4 years as any other mmo already on the market at that time because world of warcraft released at that time and made the previously niche mmo genre a mainstream phenomenon.

I don´t necessarily disagree with your statement though.
However it´s true that pvp/hardcore playerbase seems to be more loyal to a game and i have no idea why no developer up until this day tried to make the game appealing to both casual and hardcore pvp and pve players.

The problem is that it's not about making the best game but making the most money. Why invest into making hardcore players happy when they are very loyal anyway? The main source of income for ZOS is the casual crowd.

Steady revenue.
Also recent studies revealed that long term involved players are more likely to invest more money.
Content creators are often part of the hardcore playerbase - in the process exposing the game on youtube/twitch and creating constant free advertising.

Jawasa · January 2018

AP buff from keeps seem like a good idea.