moved

DoctorESO

moved

Jhalin

Sounds worse than giving players the ability to fight thieves. At least enemy players die, guards do not.

Anyway it's still a really grief-y system to implement something that allows players to inhibit the playstyle of others. Justice events that are independent of bothering other players should be the focus for brainstorming. For example, an actual difficult to defeat enemy "Thief" to retrieve stolen goods from for the guards. An opt-in bounty hunting system as an extension of 1v1 PvP. Things that will reward both sides of the digital "law" in ESO for participating.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Sounds cool. And then when the guard shows up the thief gets the option to deny all charges and call the offending character a liar. Which leads to a duel of honor between the thief and the accuser. I like where your head is at!

DoctorESO

.

ArchMikem

DoctorESO wrote: »

However, guards are now trivial idiots since everyone has mastered the art of sneaking around guards (and it's not very hard to begin with),

Players don't sneak around them, they straight up ignore them. If their resistances are high enough the initial hits from a Guard don't do much at all, and if you get far enough away the Guard just stops chasing.

Part of me wouldn't mind players being able to attack ones with a Bounty, but the other part of me knows there are those that would more than happily abuse the system to grief people in PvE. At least a limitation would need to be in place such as players can only be attacked by other players once their bounty reaches a certain amount. A single witnessed pick pocket shouldn't be what gets you burst into the ground by some Tryhard. You'd have to rake in at least several thousand before the game allows PvP Justice. It wouldn't allow the willy nilly slaughtering of casuals but it also might cut down on all those NPC killing sprees.

pauli133

DoctorESO wrote: »

What if, when you are near a player with a bounty, a synergy pops up that you can activate, and doing so calls the nearest guard to come running over? Or it generates a new guard very close by, who immediately runs over to accost the never-do-gooder? Peace and justice for all.

Press X to Tattle.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

cool idea...tried it 2 years ago...didn't happened...not gona happen.

idk

DoctorESO wrote: »

Players being able to kill others who have a bounty was part of the original justice system plan, but it was scrapped due in part, I believe, to concerns about griefing and harassment. However, guards are now trivial idiots since everyone has mastered the art of sneaking around guards (and it's not very hard to begin with), so I am proposing an alternative. What if, when you are near a player with a bounty, a synergy pops up that you can activate, and doing so calls the nearest guard to come running over? Or it generates a new guard very close by, who immediately runs over to accost the never-do-gooder? Peace and justice for all.

1. opens door to griefing still.
2. I get caught by guards and escape. Not saying it is trivial to escape, but can be done from most places.

Really no reason to change it. Players get caught. Players that do not get caught are doing what they are supposed to do to prevent a guard finding them.

Korah_Eaglecry

DoctorESO wrote: »

Players being able to kill others who have a bounty was part of the original justice system plan, but it was scrapped due in part, I believe, to concerns about griefing and harassment. However, guards are now trivial idiots since everyone has mastered the art of sneaking around guards (and it's not very hard to begin with), so I am proposing an alternative. What if, when you are near a player with a bounty, a synergy pops up that you can activate, and doing so calls the nearest guard to come running over? Or it generates a new guard very close by, who immediately runs over to accost the never-do-gooder? Peace and justice for all.

So griefing and harassment by proxy? The way your system would work, you wouldnt even need to see the player commit the crime to be omipotently informed of their crime. To which you can in turn snitch on them and magically spawn your own personal bully.

VaranisArano

Perhaps ZOS could just update the guards?

Look at the Guards in Hew's Bane, the Thieves Guild Heists, and the Dark Brotherhood Black Sacraments.

Hew's Bane and the TG missions have guards with stealth-suppressing lanterns. That forces players to be very intentional about how they move, especially in areas with choke points. The Heists and Black Sacraments have elite mobs that must be avoided.

This would be a naturally extension to the guards already introduced by the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood that would increase the difficulty of thieving/murdering while still keeping the Justice System entirely PVE.

monktoasty

How about we let it stay the way it is. Guards are plenty op. Ever get caught with one indoors? Yea..yer done for.

Anyways..we don't need other players getting all up in other people's business and gameplay.

If anything..guards should come when npcs call for them since they dont..but that's bout as far as it should go

LordSemaj

Rather than calling the guards, why not keep your "Press X to Report" button only it adds Bounty to the player? The synergy only comes up for a few seconds after the crime is committed but you can use it to punish the player for committing a crime in broad daylight as you have just "witnessed" it just as the NPCs do.

So rather than summoning the guards to murder the player and steal all their gold, which lowbies have already been complaining about nonstop because of scaling bounty decay, you could instead make the penalty for discovery more severe if they do it so casually when there are other players around.

More reason to use invisibility pots and not get caught.

primethief147

monktoasty wrote: »

How about we let it stay the way it is. Guards are plenty op. Ever get caught with one indoors? Yea..yer done for.

Anyways..we don't need other players getting all up in other people's business and gameplay.

If anything..guards should come when npcs call for them since they dont..but that's bout as far as it should go

^Seriously this im down with having unique guards but as soon as you add the ability for some random duel build player to attack my pve thief build character im done.

LordSemaj

I want a dungeon where the boss is a town guard. He's completely invincible and you just have to run around for three minutes without dying. Easier said than done.

DoctorESO

.

Minyassa

Why in the world would we want to make it harder? People learn to sneak around guards and they've picked up a skill and that's pretty much the usual sort of exchange in a game, you learn how to work around the obstacles. No reason to punish people for having learned how to deal with it.

DoctorESO

.

TheShadowScout

DoctorESO wrote: »

Players being able to kill others who have a bounty was part of the original justice system plan, but it was scrapped due in part, I believe, to concerns about griefing and harassment. However, guards are now trivial idiots...

...which is why I keep wanting more justice for tamriel: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/384538/for-great-justice/p1

DoctorESO wrote: »

What if, when you are near a player with a bounty, a synergy pops up that you can activate, and doing so calls the nearest guard to come running over? Or it generates a new guard very close by, who immediately runs over to accost the never-do-gooder?

Snitching on people, huh?
I'm all for it

It would not be much of an effect, really, since criminal scum -still- can easily evade guards with only a minor bit of luck (as long as they are outdoors, that is), but it -would- give those who like to play goody-two-greaves a chance to step up and at least feel like they are -doing something- against all those criminals...

On the other hand, it also should give anyone doing it a long-term "snitch" marker, which will get them killed and fed to the fishes if they enter an outlaw refugee with it. Fair's fair after all. You pick your side, us versus them, foe versus friend, and snitches get stitches.

DoctorESO

.

Minyassa

I hope they will continue to keep involuntary PvP out of PvE areas.

TheShadowScout

DoctorESO wrote: »

I want an enforcerer/goody-two-greaves skill line then.

You know...
...I could see that happening. I mean... take my old PvE "enforcer guild" idea... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387560/additional-guild-ideas-mk-ii
...and just add an "snitch" effect if one uses the "Challenge" skill on bounty-fied players!

Glurin

Or you could, you know, not fix what ain't broken.

The ideas proposed in this thread are open invitations to griefing, which is the reason why the PvP justice system was abandoned in the first place.

DoctorESO

.

TheShadowScout

Glurin wrote: »

Or you could, you know, not fix what ain't broken.

If something is only half built... it may not be technically broken, but still could use some work!

The justice system we have now was supposed to be supplemented by the PvP part. They decided they do not want to mix PvP into PvE regions - fine, their choice. But that leaves the justice system a bit short on... justice.

And that means, something should be added to pick up the slack. (see suggestions above)

Glurin wrote: »

The ideas proposed in this thread are open invitations to griefing, which is the reason why the PvP justice system was abandoned in the first place.

Fear of griefing is not a good excuse - since all things would not affect most players, only criminal scum. And its every players choice if they become criminal scum in the first place...
Aaaand, even if they added a player-driven "snitching system", they could set a "minimum bounty" before it becomes useable to protect the kind of players who just mistakenly grabbed those gloves from the counter while trying to talk to the merchant...
...players who run around with a huge bounty on the other hand, fu... uhm... disregard their complaints, they knew what they were getting into when they choose to become outlaws!

DoctorESO

.

Jade1986

DoctorESO wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

I want a dungeon where the boss is a town guard. He's completely invincible and you just have to run around for three minutes without dying. Easier said than done.

Ahem!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=B-T6spk8cWE

lol, i didnt know they had an ability called riot control! xD

eso_lags

Im pretty sure zos said they gave up on this. Sadly enough. I think they thought it through and realized that pve players would be complaining when their thief build in divines gets chased down by a daily pvp player.

The thing is, this would have been awesome. Sure for the first few weeks pvp players would do it, but after that no serious pvp player would be out trying to do this unless there were some serious rewards. Thats just my opinion though. I think it would have beeen fun, on rare occasion, for pvp players. But mainly fun for all non pvp players to get a tiny taste of pvp if they wanted or if they were not careful enough but its scrapped.

Now lets hope they dont scrap spell crafting since they said they were still doing it. Hopefully 2018, or at the very least 2019..

monktoasty

It's been tried before and you are incorrect itztj..you underrestimste the patience and single minded Ness of griefers. Noone would be able to steal a thing anymore orvaccidently steal cause there'd be someone in the shadows forv10 hours at a known spot prone to accident stealong ready to pounce.

TheShadowScout

monktoasty wrote: »

It's been tried before and you are incorrect itztj..you underrestimste the patience and single minded Ness of griefers. Noone would be able to steal a thing anymore orvaccidently steal cause there'd be someone in the shadows forv10 hours at a known spot prone to accident stealong ready to pounce.

Actually... that is not what the OP was talking about.
The whole snitching concept would not go into action until your stealing character -already- get themselves spotted doing their dastardly crimes and gained bounty. Thuse who steal smart and avoid being seen by lawful citzen NPCs... (as the justice system actually intends!) would have no issues.

And, as I mentioned, it could easily be done with a minimum threshold, so that mere first-time stealings (well, that the witness knows of anyhow) won't be enough for snitches to snitch on you... though killings definitely ought to be, to keep the murder sprees under control!

Tommy_The_Gun

If you want to give players ability to become guards and camp in all the potential good spots where you can steal stuff & then fence them - please - let us at least use blade of woe on those player "guards"

btw. I think that idea is terrible in general - to allow player - guards. Even the idea to be able to call for a guard / spawn a new one is terrible. Imagine all those people spamming guards inside houses, buildings and rooms. There will be literally more "guards" than thieves...

And in the end - stealing stuff is the most time - efficient way to get a lot of gold - especially for solo players. Where this gold goes after that - you guessed it - to a guild traders. And since like 70 - 80% of this game are solo "lone wolves" type of players i guess that those changes will hurt guild traders the most and it will hit the in-game economy.

Niobium

Since it seems to be an RP reason folk are hell bent on being snitches, why not have an RP toggle for those who want to participate in this "justice" system. Yes, I use sarcastic quote marks because hey.. we're killing mobs to get loot - just like we do in the rest of the game. These pixels just happen to be in a town rather than wilderness *shrug*.

So the RP Snitches can have a toggle and the RP Criminal Scum can have a toggle and they all just put their RP toggles on and the Snitches can go to town calling guards or righteously defending the innocent pixels or whatever.

This way no one's play time is "ruined" by having someone snitch on them because both sides have consented the RP of "robbing" people and "murdering" them.. rather than just, you know, looting pixels.