Stamina vs Magicka - Lack of balance

DanielWinterborn

Now I know it's not just me but why oh why are stamina builds hitting harder than magicka ones?

I have all my CP's balanced for all kinds of damage, my physical and spell protections are around the same value yet every single time the stamina builds hit harder (Magicka Warden here). I'm talking here about damage received... Sorcs rarely hit for more than 7k damage on critical crystal, like maybe I meet someone like this two times a week in BG but as for stamina builds... 9k warder subteranian attacks, 9k two handed skills hits, 10-12k NB ults, 10k leaps. And this is like almost every single BG fight. This is ridiculous, what is going on?

Not to mention that vigor and rally heal almost as much as legit healing skills. So it seems that stamina has it all, damage, heals.

I don't need things such as "oh use defile", "oh get more crit defense" and all that, this is strictly about what I have seen so far in my hundreds of BG, it's standing out like a red hot iron! I would agree with those statements if both magicka and stamina were to hit as hard and then I would get more crit defense but the issue remains, why does stamina hit harder than magicka? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or at least the same?

And this is not a nerf thread so don't get your panties in a bunch, this is just to see if anyone else is experiencing this.

Like I said before numerous times I'll say it again, I almost never see a magicka warden stronger than me but stamina wardens have my number big time because they hit much stronger, take less damage, etc.

Uviryth

Range, you have Range. Thats worth like 10k DPS

DanielWinterborn

Uviryth wrote: »

Range, you have Range. Thats worth like 10k DPS

Lol, that does little to help with gap closers. If he was running, sprinting towards me I could think about kite and be done with it all but spamming that gap closer makes me a melee mage.

Morgul667

Range and shields make a huge difference

I love both stamina and magicka and do believe they are more balanced today than they used to

Being at proximity of ennemies is a clear risk taking

coop500

Magicka has the advantage of better shields, better healing and more utility.

SydneyGrey

Well, they're going to be nerfing certain gap closers in stamina builds next patch.

Because they don't know how to buff anything, only nerf.

JamuThatsWho

Uviryth wrote: »

Range, you have Range. Thats worth like 10k DPS

I'm a MagDK though.

DanielWinterborn

JamuThatsWho wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Range, you have Range. Thats worth like 10k DPS

I'm a MagDK though.

This

kylewwefan

If you wore heavy armor w S/B like everyone else no one hits you that hard.

AzraelKrieg

Stam builds are OP yet people claim magicka builds are also OP. Hmm.

Pastas

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Now I know it's not just me but why oh why are stamina builds hitting harder than magicka ones?

I have all my CP's balanced for all kinds of damage, my physical and spell protections are around the same value yet every single time the stamina builds hit harder (Magicka Warden here). I'm talking here about damage received... Sorcs rarely hit for more than 7k damage on critical crystal, like maybe I meet someone like this two times a week in BG but as for stamina builds... 9k warder subteranian attacks, 9k two handed skills hits, 10-12k NB ults, 10k leaps. And this is like almost every single BG fight. This is ridiculous, what is going on?

Not to mention that vigor and rally heal almost as much as legit healing skills. So it seems that stamina has it all, damage, heals.

I don't need things such as "oh use defile", "oh get more crit defense" and all that, this is strictly about what I have seen so far in my hundreds of BG, it's standing out like a red hot iron! I would agree with those statements if both magicka and stamina were to hit as hard and then I would get more crit defense but the issue remains, why does stamina hit harder than magicka? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or at least the same?

And this is not a nerf thread so don't get your panties in a bunch, this is just to see if anyone else is experiencing this.

Like I said before numerous times I'll say it again, I almost never see a magicka warden stronger than me but stamina wardens have my number big time because they hit much stronger, take less damage, etc.

Looks like that damage values were buffed by BG sigils or you were running nude.

Lexxypwns

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

Goshua

kylewwefan wrote: »

If you wore heavy armor w S/B like everyone else no one hits you that hard.

lol

DanielWinterborn

Pastas wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Now I know it's not just me but why oh why are stamina builds hitting harder than magicka ones?

I have all my CP's balanced for all kinds of damage, my physical and spell protections are around the same value yet every single time the stamina builds hit harder (Magicka Warden here). I'm talking here about damage received... Sorcs rarely hit for more than 7k damage on critical crystal, like maybe I meet someone like this two times a week in BG but as for stamina builds... 9k warder subteranian attacks, 9k two handed skills hits, 10-12k NB ults, 10k leaps. And this is like almost every single BG fight. This is ridiculous, what is going on?

Not to mention that vigor and rally heal almost as much as legit healing skills. So it seems that stamina has it all, damage, heals.

I don't need things such as "oh use defile", "oh get more crit defense" and all that, this is strictly about what I have seen so far in my hundreds of BG, it's standing out like a red hot iron! I would agree with those statements if both magicka and stamina were to hit as hard and then I would get more crit defense but the issue remains, why does stamina hit harder than magicka? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or at least the same?

And this is not a nerf thread so don't get your panties in a bunch, this is just to see if anyone else is experiencing this.

Like I said before numerous times I'll say it again, I almost never see a magicka warden stronger than me but stamina wardens have my number big time because they hit much stronger, take less damage, etc.

Looks like that damage values were buffed by BG sigils or you were running nude.

Nope, none of the above

DanielWinterborn

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

What game are you playing? It has a decent burst but it's far from the best ) Wide margin? LoL a thousand times, stamina bursts so much more.

Lexxypwns

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

What game are you playing? It has a decent burst but it's far from the best ) Wide margin? LoL a thousand times, stamina bursts so much more.

My burst combo routinely crits over 25k and lands in the same second. If you add in a meteor it’s a well over 30k combo and that’s not even considering fletcher ticks crit for over 4K. On squishies it’s closer to 40k...

That burst is available every 3 seconds and it’s undodgeable. The only stamina player with comparable damage numbers to me in BGs on my platform is @Liam12548 and he’s not only a much better player than me, he’s running a high pressure bleed based stamplar that’s bursty, but not warden bursty

Edit: and I’ve got a 10k harness tooltip

OdinForge

Magicka is dominant to stamina currently in almost every situation. The sole exception might be heavy armor stamina warden, which is bothersome for everyone.

From a medium armor perspective it's more dangerous to contend with two magicka nightblades, chasing me with soul assaults. Than it is to contend with several stamina nightblades, chasing me with even mark.

It has a lot to do with unavoidable damage mechanics, of which magicka has a lot of options. I can dodge incap, dbos can miss if aimed improperly, 2H ult can miss, DW ult is ***. Soul assault is unavoidable, meteor is unavoidable. Short of not even fighting back, destro and warden ice ults are unavoidable as well.

If you refuse to take advantage of the things that make magicka strong, and/or run into PvP with light armor and no impen, stamina might seem strong.

DanielWinterborn

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

What game are you playing? It has a decent burst but it's far from the best ) Wide margin? LoL a thousand times, stamina bursts so much more.

My burst combo routinely crits over 25k and lands in the same second. If you add in a meteor it’s a well over 30k combo and that’s not even considering fletcher ticks crit for over 4K. On squishies it’s closer to 40k...

That burst is available every 3 seconds and it’s undodgeable. The only stamina player with comparable damage numbers to me in BGs on my platform is @Liam12548 and he’s not only a much better player than me, he’s running a high pressure bleed based stamplar that’s bursty, but not warden bursty

Edit: and I’ve got a 10k harness tooltip

Alright, who do you hit that hard? Not even the skeleton takes that much damage but please enlighten me. Also what server are you on maybe you can show me? Perhaps I'm just a noob...

Zer0oo

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

Not at all ridiculously OP stamden main

mmh


Stam is just not so good in this patch because defile is way to strong against them. But compared to mag classes stam has the better ultis for open world. Dawnbreaker is instant damage+cc+dot and since the average resistances against physical damage is lower it hits quite high against most targets. (I really miss the old mag dawnbreaker days)

Ragnarock41

Laughable at best. Stamina has basically no place at competitive pvp raids, outside of the rapid monkeys and oh so balanced stamden ,obviously.

DanielWinterborn

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Laughable at best. Stamina has basically no place at competitive pvp raids, outside of the rapid monkeys and oh so balanced stamden ,obviously.

What are you talking about? Have you ever did battlegrounds? It's like stam city up in that mother!

Lexxypwns

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

What game are you playing? It has a decent burst but it's far from the best ) Wide margin? LoL a thousand times, stamina bursts so much more.

My burst combo routinely crits over 25k and lands in the same second. If you add in a meteor it’s a well over 30k combo and that’s not even considering fletcher ticks crit for over 4K. On squishies it’s closer to 40k...

That burst is available every 3 seconds and it’s undodgeable. The only stamina player with comparable damage numbers to me in BGs on my platform is @Liam12548 and he’s not only a much better player than me, he’s running a high pressure bleed based stamplar that’s bursty, but not warden bursty

Edit: and I’ve got a 10k harness tooltip

Alright, who do you hit that hard? Not even the skeleton takes that much damage but please enlighten me. Also what server are you on maybe you can show me? Perhaps I'm just a noob...

I’m running 50k mag plus spinners and I’m sat at 3.1k buffed spell damage and 41% spell crit. Layer harness+trellis+healing ward and you’ve got a solid defensive mechanic. There’s also perfect sustain on my setup because argonian OP.

Zer0oo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

We’re in a magika meta guy. Magika is stronger than stamina in almost every fashion and the magika warden has the hardest hitting non-ulti burst in the game by a wide margin

Not at all ridiculously OP stamden main

mmh


Stam is just not so good in this patch because defile is way to strong against them. But compared to mag classes stam has the better ultis for open world. Dawnbreaker is instant damage+cc+dot and since the average resistances against physical damage is lower it hits quite high against most targets. (I really miss the old mag dawnbreaker days)

Stam warden is an outlier(and gear dependent to truly be elite you have to counter defile setups with either troll or malu, no other setup is viable against defile specs). Below stam warden you’ve got 3-4 mag specs, then stamblade, then stamplar, mag sorc, huge gap, the other 2 stam specs

DeadlyRecluse

I would say that average-skill stamina players/builds have more burst than average-skill magicka players. That difference, imo, disappears at the high end of the spectrum and is more of a function of popular, easy-to-obtain stamina sets being well-suited for burst oriented play (and popular magicka sets being less-so).

I'm pretty average myself though, so what do I know.

getemshauna

You guys need to stop talking about pvp, and take a look into PvE. I think the huge part off dps difference has a vMA bow, what anwsers for atleast 14% of stam dps (endless hail).
Maybe offbalance changes will bring back Fire blockades into magicka, and hopefully it's gonna be a right step into negating a huge difference in dps in end-game PvE...

ParaNostram

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Well, they're going to be nerfing certain gap closers in stamina builds next patch.

Because they don't know how to buff anything, only nerf.

What do you think they should do when one thing is overperforming, buff literally everything else?

The more things you change the more likely you are to break something. All I can say is thank goodness you aren't in game design.

gethemshauna wrote: »

You guys need to stop talking about pvp

Okay sure I guess we'll all completely ignore the part of the game we enjoy playing because you don't wanna see people talk about it.

getemshauna

Okay sure I guess we'll all completely ignore the part of the game we enjoy playing because you don't wanna see people talk about it.


I didn't say I don't want read about pvp issues. I am myself active PvP player and I really enjoy it. But this game doesn't separate these two activities - what means nerfing one can bring suffer to the opposite group of players. That's why it's very dangerous for the healthy of the game.

Mureel

You know I think about this a lot; and I feel that the range has benefit not just in pvp but in pve there is a reason why many raids limit the Stam dps numbers.

They have very high dps yes but they are legit taking more damage in both sides of the game, thus they are at more risk in pvp and also in pve cost more to keep alive, some need off balance to be effective, others need Stam fed to them, etc. Also - the rotations are more difficult as I understand (not playing a Stan build ever I cannot say for sure) and I think shuffle or whatever is no compare of magicka harness.

So there are trade offs I think to both sides. If any raid leader is that short sighted that they expect mana dps to compare to Stam - well that says more about them.

Did direfrost vet the other day and on the ice Atro boss, I kept the Stam bro buffed and fed the whole time and he did on Stam dk 58000 dps. But he was like a wet paper bag to heal and keep safe. The magicka one had same buffs and orbs and did like 34k, but needed nary a heal.

That's the difference.

Gilvoth

stamina is far less damage dealing and far less survival ability then magicka is.
if the devs dont help us stamina users out intime no one will be playing it accept me alone.

ak_pvp

They really kind of balanced tbh.

Sam has the advantage openworld in most setups with sets like 7th, the asylum 2h and fm. And the quick burst and run combos.

Mag has better utility for groups and 3 mag classes can run ranged.

Not to say class issues don't exist, just that a total stam v mag meta isn't as really a thing.

Chufu

Yeah we stamina players need the "more dps" thing, because

- we have to move more when fighting more then 1 boss (or a boss which uses teleport), while the magicka players just need to turn around and can still do DPS
- if we are DW we have a 25% absorb, but we still take a lot of Damage (which magicka players can easiliy absorb nearly complete with their magicka-absorb-shield)

We had this thing a few months before, when magicka was stronger than Stamina. And what was the reaction? Everyone was playing magicka then. So i am happy that that fact has changed.

Stamina means that we are still there for one reason: Do DPS as long and as strong as we can.

Jaguar_SF

Melee attacks should hit hard and cost less regardless if they're magic or stamina

Magic melee players should be buffed because it takes as much effort as stamina players to do damage. As of right now no one plays melee magic night blade because it doesn't hit as hard as melee stamina night blade. Not in PvE not in PvP. Magic melee night blades don't exist.

List of these skills that should see reduction cost and damage increase is: Concealed Weapon, Burning Embers, Radial Sweep, Streak, Veil of Blades, Refreshing Path, Eternal Guardian ( bear melee magic hits )

Refreshing Path Specially needs a buff because that skill does no damage. Everyone picks morph that heals which is great.