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Ultimate should reset out of combat
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Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »no, this is a horrible idea.
i have never seen any mmo that had this.
As a NB player I say that it would make NB super broken OP class... thus I don't want that... it would simply be unfair...
Ulti... cloak.. ulti cloak.... no it is a bad idea...0 -
Feric51✭✭✭✭✭
✭flat cost for all ults then? or do we all have to roll NB's
Instead of flat costs, why not treat all ultimates the way Overload works? You have a 500 ultimate pool, and your Ultimate only uses its actual cost from that pool instead of depleting all 500 at once. Let people cast five Soul Assaults in a row! Can you imaging the crying then? Lol.Feric51
Xbox NADarkness Falls: The Crusade survivor (you young kids will never know the struggle of text-based games)2 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup, I agree with this.
The whole concept of wiping at bosses first to "build ultimate" makes me rage in PvE, it's such a waste of everyones' time doing something unenjoyable (wiping).
In PvP, ultimate not degenerating outside of combat leads to unbalanced duels (where one person can have full ultimate at the beginning of the fight) & silly gank gameplay from stealth.
People should be rewarded actually managing to build up an ultimate in a PvP encounter by landing their light attacks properly and using their skills that generate ultimate, not have one right off the bat at the beginning of the fight.
For this reason, ultimate should degenerate by atleast 1/second when out of combat, and reset to zero when dead.
How about not playing with plebs, instead play with people that know when to save or drop an ultimate.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you read my post?
The entire issue is that people "save ultimates" for the next fight/attempt - this shouldn't be possible. In PvE, a boss fight goes bad what happens?
Raid leader calls "charge ultimate" & everyone wastes precious dying to a boss.
I've even been in groups that even purposedly "charge up ultimate" on the first attempt at boss (because no way you can kill a boss without first wasting 5 minutes getting ultis rdy & respawning, right?).
That's just not "fun" gameplay. Nor is having unbalanced duels or coordinated ulti dumps from some group in stealth.
Bottom line is, ultimate should be something you build up, a "reward", not something every zergling immediately throws at you when you're outnumbered.
If my group wipes we don't build ults then wipe again. That's an incredible waste of time and would only hurt your score. If 1 wipe=2 wipes then you can say bye bye to vitality.
BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
Gravord✭✭✭✭✭I'd suggest not. Everyone is equal in this matter so it doesn't cause an unbalanced situation.
The original mechanic that used to clear ult out after 5 minutes out of combat was an ad idea which is why it was removed to begin with. OP has not demonstrated sufficient reasoning why the change should be reverted.
It heavily negates gank one shot builds based on incap and it heavily nerfs blob groups coming to fights with few eye of fire and similar ultis prepared. Thats good reasoning to anyone who is not part of any of the above and its not protecting his unjustified ez mode playstyle based on hitting zombies all over Cyrodill to start next fight from easy ulti kill.
It really.
Gamkers, if they use an ult to kill someone will not have that ult to kill the next person so if they rely on an ult they have a weak build for attacking the next person.
As for your "blob" groups, whatever a blob group is, if they want ults they'll make sure they have them. If your speaking of zergs, most zergs don't really need the ults if they have they have the numbers.
Idk, since this seems to be an issue for such a small group of players it seems not not be an issue with how ult gen works.
Again, insufficient reasoning to bring change.
As for nightblades, one kill from sneak with inpap puts nb back on 70% ulti, next 5-10s already makes his ulti ready to use. Way too fast - and i main nb myself.
Blob groups - usually 12-24 muppets stacking on group leader abusing aoe cap and no player collision to create strong aoe zones, carried by overperforming ultis like Eye of fire and many other broken skills before that over the game life span. If they loose ulti after fights over they wont be able to start fight with ulti bombing over and over, simple as that. They willl have to use actual skills, stay alive in combat for some time to build those ultis before they can do what now they are allowed to do on every combat opener.
So we are talking one class ans exaggerating the situation at that. Especially since your talking one shot
So you mean what everyone else calls a Zerg. Again, they really don't need their ults as yiu seeem to think. It wouldn't change much as zergs have been a thing since day one of ESO in Cyrodiil.
Restating the same thing. Still having provided string reasoning for the change. Still seem to be standing with an extremely small group with this idea.
One class? Every nb is build around incap, every dk is build around leap, every warden on dawnbreaker and so on. EVERY class was dumbed down to stay alive to hit with ulti and hope it will crit. Bad gameplay design.0 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭The OP has a point if an organized group does it right. In PVP a group can open ult bomb and rout another group then snare/immobilize stragglers and hit them with light attacks and build their pool back up to ult bomb the next group. Two organized groups in PVP should be able to maneuver in such a way that they can meet each other with both sides starting at a zero ult pool(by avoiding combat with one another for an ult reset). It would change the dynamic from firing off a battery of ults Waterloo style to maneuvering until enough people with ult are set then bombing. The problem is figuring out how to implement this. If it is based on whether or not you are in combat a raid will simply have a place filler from another faction standing in the middle of their raid to keep them in combat. Good idea but probably can't be done in practice.
If someone could figure out a way to make a siege shield morph mitigate ults in some way you might have something.Edited by Ruckly on January 10, 2018 8:28PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yup, I agree with this.
The whole concept of wiping at bosses first to "build ultimate" makes me rage in PvE, it's such a waste of everyones' time doing something unenjoyable (wiping).
In PvP, ultimate not degenerating outside of combat leads to unbalanced duels (where one person can have full ultimate at the beginning of the fight) & silly gank gameplay from stealth.
People should be rewarded actually managing to build up an ultimate in a PvP encounter by landing their light attacks properly and using their skills that generate ultimate, not have one right off the bat at the beginning of the fight.
For this reason, ultimate should degenerate by atleast 1/second when out of combat, and reset to zero when dead.
How about not playing with plebs, instead play with people that know when to save or drop an ultimate.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you read my post?
The entire issue is that people "save ultimates" for the next fight/attempt - this shouldn't be possible. In PvE, a boss fight goes bad what happens?
Raid leader calls "charge ultimate" & everyone wastes precious dying to a boss.
I've even been in groups that even purposedly "charge up ultimate" on the first attempt at boss (because no way you can kill a boss without first wasting 5 minutes getting ultis rdy & respawning, right?).
That's just not "fun" gameplay. Nor is having unbalanced duels or coordinated ulti dumps from some group in stealth.
Bottom line is, ultimate should be something you build up, a "reward", not something every zergling immediately throws at you when you're outnumbered.
If my group wipes we don't build ults then wipe again. That's an incredible waste of time and would only hurt your score. If 1 wipe=2 wipes then you can say bye bye to vitality.
I'm obviously not talking about score runs or even necessarily very organized ones.
Believe it or not, not everyone has completed vAS hardmode yet for instance and a lot of attempts they... well, fail.
And then it's just "build up ultimate and wipe" over & over & over again, which is probably my least favourite part about raiding in this game.
And it's the same thing for every new raid when people try to progress in those.The OP has a point if an organized group does it right. In PVP a group can open ult bomb and rout another group then snare/immobilize stragglers and hit them with light attacks and build their pool back up to ult bomb the next group. Two organized groups in PVP should be able to maneuver in such a way that they can meet each other with both sides starting at a zero ult pool(by avoiding combat with one another for an ult reset). It would change the dynamic from firing off a battery of ults Waterloo style to maneuvering until enough people with ult are set then bombing. The problem is figuring out how to implement this. If it is based on whether or not you are in combat a raid will simply have a place filler from another faction standing in the middle of their raid to keep them in combat. Good idea but probably can't be done in practice.
If someone could figure out a way to make a siege shield morph mitigate ults in some way you might have something.
Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better.Edited by DDuke on January 10, 2018 8:38PM3 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup, I agree with this.
The whole concept of wiping at bosses first to "build ultimate" makes me rage in PvE, it's such a waste of everyones' time doing something unenjoyable (wiping).
In PvP, ultimate not degenerating outside of combat leads to unbalanced duels (where one person can have full ultimate at the beginning of the fight) & silly gank gameplay from stealth.
People should be rewarded actually managing to build up an ultimate in a PvP encounter by landing their light attacks properly and using their skills that generate ultimate, not have one right off the bat at the beginning of the fight.
For this reason, ultimate should degenerate by atleast 1/second when out of combat, and reset to zero when dead.
How about not playing with plebs, instead play with people that know when to save or drop an ultimate.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you read my post?
The entire issue is that people "save ultimates" for the next fight/attempt - this shouldn't be possible. In PvE, a boss fight goes bad what happens?
Raid leader calls "charge ultimate" & everyone wastes precious dying to a boss.
I've even been in groups that even purposedly "charge up ultimate" on the first attempt at boss (because no way you can kill a boss without first wasting 5 minutes getting ultis rdy & respawning, right?).
That's just not "fun" gameplay. Nor is having unbalanced duels or coordinated ulti dumps from some group in stealth.
Bottom line is, ultimate should be something you build up, a "reward", not something every zergling immediately throws at you when you're outnumbered.
If my group wipes we don't build ults then wipe again. That's an incredible waste of time and would only hurt your score. If 1 wipe=2 wipes then you can say bye bye to vitality.
I'm obviously not talking about score runs or even necessarily very organized ones.
Believe it or not, not everyone has completed vAS hardmode yet for instance and a lot of attempts they... well, fail.
And then it's just "build up ultimate and wipe" over & over & over again, which is probably my least favourite part about raiding in this game.
And it's the same thing for every new raid when people try to progress in those.The OP has a point if an organized group does it right. In PVP a group can open ult bomb and rout another group then snare/immobilize stragglers and hit them with light attacks and build their pool back up to ult bomb the next group. Two organized groups in PVP should be able to maneuver in such a way that they can meet each other with both sides starting at a zero ult pool(by avoiding combat with one another for an ult reset). It would change the dynamic from firing off a battery of ults Waterloo style to maneuvering until enough people with ult are set then bombing. The problem is figuring out how to implement this. If it is based on whether or not you are in combat a raid will simply have a place filler from another faction standing in the middle of their raid to keep them in combat. Good idea but probably can't be done in practice.
If someone could figure out a way to make a siege shield morph mitigate ults in some way you might have something.
Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better.
Yea, we don't do that in progression runs either, it's still a waste of time. For most people wiping over and over is exhausting and when people get exhausted they make more mistakes. Forcing wipes is counterproductive.
BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really like this idea. It would almost single-handedly wipe out pure ganking/bombing and restore more actual PvP gameplay (gasp!).
LOL We actually need more solo bombers. This actually would encourage more ball groups so they can run around to get ultimate built up and run over people who can't manage to so much as get a defensive ultimate up.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yup, I agree with this.
The whole concept of wiping at bosses first to "build ultimate" makes me rage in PvE, it's such a waste of everyones' time doing something unenjoyable (wiping).
In PvP, ultimate not degenerating outside of combat leads to unbalanced duels (where one person can have full ultimate at the beginning of the fight) & silly gank gameplay from stealth.
People should be rewarded actually managing to build up an ultimate in a PvP encounter by landing their light attacks properly and using their skills that generate ultimate, not have one right off the bat at the beginning of the fight.
For this reason, ultimate should degenerate by atleast 1/second when out of combat, and reset to zero when dead.
How about not playing with plebs, instead play with people that know when to save or drop an ultimate.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you read my post?
The entire issue is that people "save ultimates" for the next fight/attempt - this shouldn't be possible. In PvE, a boss fight goes bad what happens?
Raid leader calls "charge ultimate" & everyone wastes precious dying to a boss.
I've even been in groups that even purposedly "charge up ultimate" on the first attempt at boss (because no way you can kill a boss without first wasting 5 minutes getting ultis rdy & respawning, right?).
That's just not "fun" gameplay. Nor is having unbalanced duels or coordinated ulti dumps from some group in stealth.
Bottom line is, ultimate should be something you build up, a "reward", not something every zergling immediately throws at you when you're outnumbered.
If my group wipes we don't build ults then wipe again. That's an incredible waste of time and would only hurt your score. If 1 wipe=2 wipes then you can say bye bye to vitality.
I'm obviously not talking about score runs or even necessarily very organized ones.
Believe it or not, not everyone has completed vAS hardmode yet for instance and a lot of attempts they... well, fail.
And then it's just "build up ultimate and wipe" over & over & over again, which is probably my least favourite part about raiding in this game.
And it's the same thing for every new raid when people try to progress in those.The OP has a point if an organized group does it right. In PVP a group can open ult bomb and rout another group then snare/immobilize stragglers and hit them with light attacks and build their pool back up to ult bomb the next group. Two organized groups in PVP should be able to maneuver in such a way that they can meet each other with both sides starting at a zero ult pool(by avoiding combat with one another for an ult reset). It would change the dynamic from firing off a battery of ults Waterloo style to maneuvering until enough people with ult are set then bombing. The problem is figuring out how to implement this. If it is based on whether or not you are in combat a raid will simply have a place filler from another faction standing in the middle of their raid to keep them in combat. Good idea but probably can't be done in practice.
If someone could figure out a way to make a siege shield morph mitigate ults in some way you might have something.
Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better.
Their point isn't about score runs. Their point is it's not common to do ult pulls did the heck of it. Only time I've seen it is when the boss is accidentally pulled and it's clear the group isn't ready.
You did suggestion is mostly based off you want it this way which is why I've said you would need to come uo with a compelling reason for the change. So far you have not.3 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Why are so many people intent on wrecking this game with half baked ideas.
Just play the damn game already.
Now and then I see a news article about somebody burning his house down trying to kill a spider, and think, "Who does that?"
People who don't think things through do that.
It's not surprising though people get frustrated about ongoing *** in Cyrodiil that gets addressed sooooooo sloooooowly, if ever. I'm fully fed up with Earthgore and ready to just ban all monster sets! All of them! They turn to dust if you bring them into Cyrodiil! But wouldn't really want that to happen.
0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The OP has a point if an organized group does it right. In PVP a group can open ult bomb and rout another group then snare/immobilize stragglers and hit them with light attacks and build their pool back up to ult bomb the next group. Two organized groups in PVP should be able to maneuver in such a way that they can meet each other with both sides starting at a zero ult pool(by avoiding combat with one another for an ult reset). It would change the dynamic from firing off a battery of ults Waterloo style to maneuvering until enough people with ult are set then bombing. The problem is figuring out how to implement this. If it is based on whether or not you are in combat a raid will simply have a place filler from another faction standing in the middle of their raid to keep them in combat. Good idea but probably can't be done in practice.
If someone could figure out a way to make a siege shield morph mitigate ults in some way you might have something.
Fun thing is if the group they are targeting has a negate or two ready to go that organized group is going to be on the receiving end of that rout. An organized group plans their ultimates in waves and keeps something in reserve for any surprises or oh $#!+ moments. Two good groups with their ultimates ready to go leads to a strategic fight more often than not.
You also have to consider how this would change capturing keeps and other resources. Now groups will often try to draw the guards out to fight before entering so they don't have to deal with both guards and enemy players. With this change a good group can draw out guards building up ultimates while the defending players would have no way to do so other than by giving up their defensive position and attacking.
The strategy of using choke points would all but be removed from fights. All that strategy would fly out the window just to stop a few bad gankers that depend upon building their ultimate between surprise attacks. The good ones are still going to get you without thinking about popping an ultimate on you. Not much (if anything) positive for a whole lot of negative.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better."
You mean those players who are nothing but shield and health running around trees and rocks while scores of players try to drop their health to even 50% before they rebuff and get it back up? If you are outnumbered, more join against you and you don't retreat you deserve to die whether they are using ultimates or not. Sure one good player should be able to hold his own against a handful of people that lack experience but one decent player joining in should decide the course of the battle even if that means a well timed and well placed ultimate. I should be able to decide when and how I use my ultimate and not have it just go away because I either didn't need it or didn't have a good opportunity to get it out there.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better."
You mean those players who are nothing but shield and health running around trees and rocks while scores of players try to drop their health to even 50% before they rebuff and get it back up? If you are outnumbered, more join against you and you don't retreat you deserve to die whether they are using ultimates or not. Sure one good player should be able to hold his own against a handful of people that lack experience but one decent player joining in should decide the course of the battle even if that means a well timed and well placed ultimate. I should be able to decide when and how I use my ultimate and not have it just go away because I either didn't need it or didn't have a good opportunity to get it out there.
Well, that is just a sentiment I will never agree with.
How I see is that players should actually earn their kills, and that means surviving long enough to build up that ultimate and then using it at a good time. Not just dumping that ultimate you got from killing a random goblin somewhere on someone who's already at a disadvantage for being outnumbered - that's not a good gameplay experience for anyone.
Nor is running around rocks/trees, I've always considered that silly.1 -
Lestorn✭✭✭Honestly, Ultimate abilities regenerate so ridiculously fast, it's pointless to even be on this thread.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I thought I liked the idea.
Then I realize I play a lot of WW.
And then I instantly disliked the idea.0331
06024 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »I thought I liked the idea.
Then I realize I play a lot of WW.
And then I instantly disliked the idea.
Same here, instant NO until ZOS actually changes WW for the better.
Which they won't given how long it's been since anything good ever happened to usHoping for more playable races0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭Newp!!!~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭No!dwemer_paleologist wrote: »no, this is a horrible idea.
i have never seen any mmo that had this.
Warhammer Online, best pvp mmo ever, had that.
Why are you still on this forum then if you found your best MMO game?
1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Well it's not just organized groups.
Imagine how PvP would be for a solo player already outnumbered, fighting x amount of opponents, if there weren't random Ambush Incaps or Soul Assaults from some enemy players who just arrived to the scene with their ulti bars all filled up from zerging someone down earlier?
I'll tell you: a lot better."
You mean those players who are nothing but shield and health running around trees and rocks while scores of players try to drop their health to even 50% before they rebuff and get it back up? If you are outnumbered, more join against you and you don't retreat you deserve to die whether they are using ultimates or not. Sure one good player should be able to hold his own against a handful of people that lack experience but one decent player joining in should decide the course of the battle even if that means a well timed and well placed ultimate. I should be able to decide when and how I use my ultimate and not have it just go away because I either didn't need it or didn't have a good opportunity to get it out there.
Well, that is just a sentiment I will never agree with.
How I see is that players should actually earn their kills, and that means surviving long enough to build up that ultimate and then using it at a good time. Not just dumping that ultimate you got from killing a random goblin somewhere on someone who's already at a disadvantage for being outnumbered - that's not a good gameplay experience for anyone.
Nor is running around rocks/trees, I've always considered that silly.
And they "earn" those kills by planning ahead and having their biggest attack up and ready to go. I did the "" thing around earn because really joining in with a mob attacking a solo player is kinda weak to start with ulti or not.
Let's take this scenario. My group is on the bridge and the enemy shows up. During the course of the battle my Elemental Drain comes up but a group member dropped a timely negate and the enemy was vanquished without need of my ultimate. Enemy spawns at camp and comes back and I have no ultimate again simply because I didn't need it in the previous battle. That takes away from strategy instead of adding to it. If we know we are going to lose our ultimate anyway instead of using it strategically we are just going to throw it out there whenever it pops.
Sure it sucks for the outnumbered person but honestly unless that player is trolling with a shield build he is going to go down anyway and if he is trolling and hopping around a rock or tree what better way to end it than by some random wanderer dropping a bomb on his...and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No!dwemer_paleologist wrote: »no, this is a horrible idea.
i have never seen any mmo that had this.
Warhammer Online, best pvp mmo ever, had that.
Why are you still on this forum then if you found your best MMO game?
Good point~ Go back to Warhammer lolHoping for more playable races0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yup, I agree with this.
The whole concept of wiping at bosses first to "build ultimate" makes me rage in PvE, it's such a waste of everyones' time doing something unenjoyable (wiping).
In PvP, ultimate not degenerating outside of combat leads to unbalanced duels (where one person can have full ultimate at the beginning of the fight) & silly gank gameplay from stealth.
People should be rewarded actually managing to build up an ultimate in a PvP encounter by landing their light attacks properly and using their skills that generate ultimate, not have one right off the bat at the beginning of the fight.
For this reason, ultimate should degenerate by atleast 1/second when out of combat, and reset to zero when dead.
How about not playing with plebs, instead play with people that know when to save or drop an ultimate.
What does that have to do with anything? Did you read my post?
The entire issue is that people "save ultimates" for the next fight/attempt - this shouldn't be possible. In PvE, a boss fight goes bad what happens?
Raid leader calls "charge ultimate" & everyone wastes precious dying to a boss.
I've even been in groups that even purposedly "charge up ultimate" on the first attempt at boss (because no way you can kill a boss without first wasting 5 minutes getting ultis rdy & respawning, right?).
That's just not "fun" gameplay. Nor is having unbalanced duels or coordinated ulti dumps from some group in stealth.
Bottom line is, ultimate should be something you build up, a "reward", not something every zergling immediately throws at you when you're outnumbered.
Been PvEing since Launch and never had one lead intentionally wipe a group just to build up ultimate. What fight in ESO is it advantageous to wipe a group just to build ultimate?
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0