Axe or Dagger this patch?

xRichh94

Hi, I was lucky enough to loot a VO 1 handed axe last night in SO while looking for a dagger. I'm a stamblade currently looking to wear TFS and VO but I'm not sure whether I should continue searching for a VO dagger. I am a Khajit and I have heard that an axe and dagger actually pulls ahead of the dagger/dagger set up in trials, but I am wondering if this is true in dungeons to? Thanks.

jkolb2030

Axe/Dagger will usually give you better numbers solo and in 4 man content because of the axe bleed.

However, double daggers will increase your overall crit and give you better damage when you get into 12man content where you have good uptime on all of your offensive buffs.

Being a Khajit you can stick to axe/dagger and notice very minimal dps loss.

The idea behind the dual dagger is just eliminating the RNG of axe bleed for higher crit damage.

xRichh94

Ah ok thank you very much, I will stick with axe/dagger. One more question however, what about when it comes to vma?

Harrdarrzarr

vma=dagger/dagger I would think. Because you want the mobs to die almost instantly so you need more crit.

xRichh94

Appreciate it, but axe/dagger for 4man and near enough as efficient as dagger/dagger in trials for a Khajit stamblade?

kylewwefan

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

jkolb2030

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

I_killed_Vivec

I've been dagger/dagger for a long time now, but when I used to use an axe I found it too unpredictable. Whereas the crit from dual daggers seems to make a big difference.

But then I don't get the Khajiit crit bonus...

jakeedmundson

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

jkolb2030

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

yes, but you cant refresh the effect until you get to your front bar again. so it depends how long you stay on your back bar in your rotation. Again, minimal difference either way.

jakeedmundson

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

yes, but you cant refresh the effect until you get to your front bar again. so it depends how long you stay on your back bar in your rotation. Again, minimal difference either way.

if you have a good rotation you will have great uptime on NMG. I think i only spend a few seconds on my bow bar. My opinion would be to use NMG weapons. The VO 5pc is too valuable to lose cost reduction on your back bar. caltrops isn't cheap.

jkolb2030

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

yes, but you cant refresh the effect until you get to your front bar again. so it depends how long you stay on your back bar in your rotation. Again, minimal difference either way.

if you have a good rotation you will have great uptime on NMG. I think i only spend a few seconds on my bow bar. My opinion would be to use NMG weapons. The VO 5pc is too valuable to lose cost reduction on your back bar. caltrops isn't cheap.

Yeah, i would run 5pc VO for the wep dmg/crit over the cost reduction tho. Don't run into too much sustain issues on DKs now adays.

I'll honestly probably try a few parses on a 6mil tonight with both set ups. Might be able to get some rough numbers to post later.

xRichh94

Thank you very much for all the answers and information, I tried VO and TFS axe/dagger on a dummy last night and still got the same numbers as I did with VO and Spriggans dagger/dagger. Think I'll have to start hunting down that dagger haha, and do you think NMG is better than TFS then in most content?

SoLooney

dagger dagger in optimized groups, even as a khajiit, double daggers are still the better choice

axe dagger when pen is not optimized

xRichh94

Thank you very much.

jakeedmundson

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

yes, but you cant refresh the effect until you get to your front bar again. so it depends how long you stay on your back bar in your rotation. Again, minimal difference either way.

if you have a good rotation you will have great uptime on NMG. I think i only spend a few seconds on my bow bar. My opinion would be to use NMG weapons. The VO 5pc is too valuable to lose cost reduction on your back bar. caltrops isn't cheap.

Yeah, i would run 5pc VO for the wep dmg/crit over the cost reduction tho. Don't run into too much sustain issues on DKs now adays.

I'll honestly probably try a few parses on a 6mil tonight with both set ups. Might be able to get some rough numbers to post later.

That's a fair point if you don't have resource issues... i guess i was thinking of it from my stam sorc or nightblade perspective. That cost reduction is... lets just say, necessary

jkolb2030

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

jkolb2030 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

In VMA, VO/NMG/Veledreth double daggers are about BiS for StamBlade. At least what the top score players show in their videos. Don’t use VO on weapons because they want the cost reduction on full time. And NMG because, 3 piece is weapon damage and the debuff is still on when bar swap. TFS is BiS for solo skeleton testing.

I would use VO weapons on DW bar in VO/NMG - you're either losing out on crit/wep dmg on back bar or your losing your ability to keep the debuff up when you swap to back bar.

Either way you run it will make a very small difference - but it's definitely worth having VO weapons for DW bar.

EDIT:
Yes axe/dagger will work fine for you in all content - dagger/dagger is more a min/max thing to do to get the extra amount of crit.

The NMG debuff stays on target after it procs whether or not you stay on that bar with the 5pc.

yes, but you cant refresh the effect until you get to your front bar again. so it depends how long you stay on your back bar in your rotation. Again, minimal difference either way.

if you have a good rotation you will have great uptime on NMG. I think i only spend a few seconds on my bow bar. My opinion would be to use NMG weapons. The VO 5pc is too valuable to lose cost reduction on your back bar. caltrops isn't cheap.

Yeah, i would run 5pc VO for the wep dmg/crit over the cost reduction tho. Don't run into too much sustain issues on DKs now adays.

I'll honestly probably try a few parses on a 6mil tonight with both set ups. Might be able to get some rough numbers to post later.

That's a fair point if you don't have resource issues... i guess i was thinking of it from my stam sorc or nightblade perspective. That cost reduction is... lets just say, necessary

Lol for sure for sure.

I did a couple 6m tests last night with both set ups, VO weapons and then with NMG weapons. The numbers were 39-40k with each set up - so i guess it really doesn't matter too much on which set up you prefer.

Unfortunately, i'm on console so I cant post anything as in depth as combat metrics would be.