Battlegrounds full random grouping until it w possible to separate Premades and Random grouped queue

Anethum

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

f047ys3v3n

A full random might breath some life into things. From what I understand what typically happens to casuals now is they get pugged up and fed to elite pre-formed groups to be devoured. It is not surprising few try more that a couple of attempts at this and the place dosen't see much use. Obviously we should spend our money coming up with three new modes for this thing in the last couple updates rather than analyzing the rational reasons why few play it now and trying to address them.

Carbonised

I don't think anyone enjoys being steamrolled by professional 4 man premade elite groups. No matter what new environment it is set in.

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random. Since you have no ranking system, that's pretty much the only way you'll get a somewhat casual pvp'er like myself to ever do battlegrounds again.

I'm not that much of a masochist, really.

Beardimus

When BG first dropped I was 100% with you. However playing loads more (until CP dropped and ruined play) I've learnt that often PUGs can appear to be a premade of they experienced. I always pug, but if you get a group that's on comms, or at least knows the map and tactics, all run together they will smash the others and act like a premade.

Don't get me wrong, I was seeing the same names grouped. So yes the odd pro team floated about, and was a problem. With Pop low you knew you would face them all night (I savour the challenge tho)

But to a newbie the pre-made / decent PUG can appear very similar.

Marabornwingrion

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

zParallaxz

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

Ik right

Subversus

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

You're welcome to play together with your friends and guildies in BGs - in a separate queue. You know very well that you're stomping on new players and casuals with your full premade, I know I am; the 'play with my friends' argument is complete BS.

The game should have a solo queue and a premade queue, that would shut up the premade guys and the GvG guys. I really don't see why they haven't done so yet.

Carbonised

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

There's no reason to curse at me just because I have a different opinion than yours. Even if this is the internet, you don't have to be impolite.

Not everyone is a part of a highly competitive pvp guild or environment. Also, are you that much of a wuss that you can't enjoy fighting against your friends og guildmates on opposing team? If Battlegrounds is about having fun and competitive small scale pvp, why do you enjoy so much steamrolling PvE pugs that have no living chance against your team?

No, the current battlegrounds is just about premade 4 man teams measuring the size of their epeen against clueless pugs. There's a reason why people complain about long waiting queues and empty battlegrounds, and I'm telling you that no one wants to deliver themselves at the short end of the stick to guys like you.

Why would someone who's not a hardcore pvp'er and part of an elite pvp group choose battlegrounds over Cyrodiil and IC, where the fighting odds are so much better?

Stop pretending this is CS:GO or LoL. It's a multiplayer RPG with a tagged on 4v4v4 gameplay that people do on the side. Very few live and breathe in Battlegrounds like some diehards.

zParallaxz

So you guys are saying I should feel sorry for killing a random pug because instead of him learning the art of pvp, getting good gear, being adequately leveled, and etc.. They decide to do bgs against max level people, who play with their max level friends, who all have good gear, who all have good knowledge of the game.
Sounds like the pug need to grind his stuff, pve, or go zerg in Cyrodiil until they get the hang of pvp.

zParallaxz

It’s not like the low levels or solo ques don’t know they are going up against high levels or premades. This sounds like a L2P issue

Subversus

zParallaxz wrote: »

So you guys are saying I should feel sorry for killing a random pug because instead of him learning the art of pvp, getting good gear, being adequately leveled, and etc.. They decide to do bgs against max level people, who play with their max level friends, who all have good gear, who all have good knowledge of the game.
Sounds like the pug need to grind his stuff, pve, or go zerg in Cyrodiil until they get the hang of pvp.

That makes 0 sense. Premades will always ruin queue based pvp if the premades can be matched against pugs, period. It happened in WOW, it (still) happens in SWTOR, it happens in CS GO, it happens in every possible game.

Solo and premade queues are MANDATORY for a game that's supposed to cater to casual players. We don't even have leaderboards (the ones we have don't count, they're useless) for gods sake.

zParallaxz

Carbonised wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

There's no reason to curse at me just because I have a different opinion than yours. Even if this is the internet, you don't have to be impolite.

Not everyone is a part of a highly competitive pvp guild or environment. Also, are you that much of a wuss that you can't enjoy fighting against your friends og guildmates on opposing team? If Battlegrounds is about having fun and competitive small scale pvp, why do you enjoy so much steamrolling PvE pugs that have no living chance against your team?

No, the current battlegrounds is just about premade 4 man teams measuring the size of their epeen against clueless pugs. There's a reason why people complain about long waiting queues and empty battlegrounds, and I'm telling you that no one wants to deliver themselves at the short end of the stick to guys like you.

Why would someone who's not a hardcore pvp'er and part of an elite pvp group choose battlegrounds over Cyrodiil and IC, where the fighting odds are so much better?

Stop pretending this is CS:GO or LoL. It's a multiplayer RPG with a tagged on 4v4v4 gameplay that people do on the side. Very few live and breathe in Battlegrounds like some diehards.

Why in the world would a pve char of anyone come to bgs expecting not to get smacked by a incap?

Subversus

Carbonised wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

There's no reason to curse at me just because I have a different opinion than yours. Even if this is the internet, you don't have to be impolite.

Not everyone is a part of a highly competitive pvp guild or environment. Also, are you that much of a wuss that you can't enjoy fighting against your friends og guildmates on opposing team? If Battlegrounds is about having fun and competitive small scale pvp, why do you enjoy so much steamrolling PvE pugs that have no living chance against your team?

No, the current battlegrounds is just about premade 4 man teams measuring the size of their epeen against clueless pugs. There's a reason why people complain about long waiting queues and empty battlegrounds, and I'm telling you that no one wants to deliver themselves at the short end of the stick to guys like you.

Why would someone who's not a hardcore pvp'er and part of an elite pvp group choose battlegrounds over Cyrodiil and IC, where the fighting odds are so much better?

Stop pretending this is CS:GO or LoL. It's a multiplayer RPG with a tagged on 4v4v4 gameplay that people do on the side. Very few live and breathe in Battlegrounds like some diehards.

You tell em! I agree with every point you made.

zParallaxz

Subversus wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

So you guys are saying I should feel sorry for killing a random pug because instead of him learning the art of pvp, getting good gear, being adequately leveled, and etc.. They decide to do bgs against max level people, who play with their max level friends, who all have good gear, who all have good knowledge of the game.
Sounds like the pug need to grind his stuff, pve, or go zerg in Cyrodiil until they get the hang of pvp.

That makes 0 sense. Premades will always ruin queue based pvp if the premades can be matched against pugs, period. It happened in WOW, it (still) happens in SWTOR, it happens in CS GO, it happens in every possible game.

Solo and premade queues are MANDATORY for a game that's supposed to cater to casual players. We don't even have leaderboards (the ones we have don't count, they're useless) for gods sake.

So how is that a premades fault?

zParallaxz

Subversus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

There's no reason to curse at me just because I have a different opinion than yours. Even if this is the internet, you don't have to be impolite.

Not everyone is a part of a highly competitive pvp guild or environment. Also, are you that much of a wuss that you can't enjoy fighting against your friends og guildmates on opposing team? If Battlegrounds is about having fun and competitive small scale pvp, why do you enjoy so much steamrolling PvE pugs that have no living chance against your team?

No, the current battlegrounds is just about premade 4 man teams measuring the size of their epeen against clueless pugs. There's a reason why people complain about long waiting queues and empty battlegrounds, and I'm telling you that no one wants to deliver themselves at the short end of the stick to guys like you.

Why would someone who's not a hardcore pvp'er and part of an elite pvp group choose battlegrounds over Cyrodiil and IC, where the fighting odds are so much better?

Stop pretending this is CS:GO or LoL. It's a multiplayer RPG with a tagged on 4v4v4 gameplay that people do on the side. Very few live and breathe in Battlegrounds like some diehards.

You tell em! I agree with every point you made.

Bro if these pugs are so clueless why go to bgs where they will be matched against decent players? Why not go to open world to have a better chance of fighting other pugs???? Instead of going into a open basketball court full of different people, these people are trying to go straight into the NBA. They have basically made easier for them to die since they are in an enclosed environment unlike Cyrodiil.

Subversus

zParallaxz wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

There's no reason to curse at me just because I have a different opinion than yours. Even if this is the internet, you don't have to be impolite.

Not everyone is a part of a highly competitive pvp guild or environment. Also, are you that much of a wuss that you can't enjoy fighting against your friends og guildmates on opposing team? If Battlegrounds is about having fun and competitive small scale pvp, why do you enjoy so much steamrolling PvE pugs that have no living chance against your team?

No, the current battlegrounds is just about premade 4 man teams measuring the size of their epeen against clueless pugs. There's a reason why people complain about long waiting queues and empty battlegrounds, and I'm telling you that no one wants to deliver themselves at the short end of the stick to guys like you.

Why would someone who's not a hardcore pvp'er and part of an elite pvp group choose battlegrounds over Cyrodiil and IC, where the fighting odds are so much better?

Stop pretending this is CS:GO or LoL. It's a multiplayer RPG with a tagged on 4v4v4 gameplay that people do on the side. Very few live and breathe in Battlegrounds like some diehards.

You tell em! I agree with every point you made.

Bro if these pugs are so clueless why go to bgs where they will be matched against decent players? Why not go to open world to have a better chance of fighting other pugs????

They go into BGs in order to play a queue based game mode with objectives instead of a mindless open world horse simulator.

Rex-Umbra

Premade groups ruin the exeriance of pug groups and cause pugs to stop queuing.

zParallaxz

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Premade groups ruin the exeriance of pug groups and cause pugs to stop queuing.

The whole point of bgs is to group up, just like how if u pug a dungeon and run the risk of bad players in your group vs a hard mechanic boss. Don’t play with randoms, you have a higher chance of winning point blank, that applies to bgs and dungeons.

Gravord

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

NordSwordnBoard

Seems like BGs should've been advertised as group content according to some. Success usually has more to do with the group than you individually. Some folks carry others in pvp and pve group play, but BGs is the hardest place outside vet trials to carry a group imo. Even worse without any communication.

At launch, BGs were more like midyear-mayhem - a wide spectrum of skill sets and large population kept it fun and dynamic. You almost never saw the same groups then - same people here and there - but hardly full group repeats. In fact, one person you had rivalry with could end up on your team in the next que. IIRC, groups had more trouble getting in than solo at this time.

I'm not against people grouping at all, I just don't get why they wouldn't want to compete against similar skill sets/groups for a competent challenge. I don't believe truly skillful players revel in beating up on weak opponents - the same way nobody brags about killing an overland mob, nMA or 2 shotting a PvE hero in IC.

2 Suggestions:

Premades = Leaderboards eligible, better gear, more AP

Solo = No Leaderboard score, lesser gear, but get a transmute geode to entice people to come back and try again.

This thing was apparently built out of the dungeon finder, so why not give the equivalent of normal vs veteran content and satisfy both groups?

Anethum

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Premade gameplay is one thing, random grouped - another one.
I don't want to *** randoms while being in premade group, and don't want to die from voice coodrinated premades with randoms.
No competition, no challenge.
I have a lot of friends and big guild, and we can smash together with them almost everyone in bg if go together, but, instead we don't want go there and sometimes log in at all.
It's boring and miserable if I can't challenge vs other premades - don't u understand this?
First step of improving Battlegrounds should be make them fully random, then add separate leaderboard and option to fight premade vs premade matches. Easy to change, interesting, competitive.

Dude, if u have nothing to say, say nothing.

Gravord

diplomatt wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Premade gameplay is one thing, random grouped - another one.
I don't want to *** randoms while being in premade group, and don't want to die from voice coodrinated premades with randoms.
No competition, no challenge.

Dude, if u have no what to say, say nothing.

Yet you didnt asked for separate queue but for solo only. So my statement remains - git gud.

Anethum

Astrid_V wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Get rid of premade battleground groups, make all grouping random.

Are you serious?

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play together with my friends and guildies in BGs, like I do everyday in Cyrodiil/Imperial City/Dungeons/Trials?

If you don't wanna be farmed in BGs by premades, create your own premade with people who you like, ffs.

U should have this option also, later, when zenimax start work on this problem and add such option.
Its like an building - first u should make groundwork, and then walls, only such order to build something cool.

If u like to waste time on "farm" randoms in bg with premade group, without competition and challenge, man in such case u and your friends don't deserve respect from anyone - its simply insignificant

Subversus

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

Gravord

Subversus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

OP didnt ask to just didnt allow premades option to q but any size of the groups. 2-3 friends playing together is also something he sees as crime. Not anyone fault he is so bad nobody want to play with him or with you on that matter.
Myself i would prefer meeting only premades against every time, but sadly theres too many baddies like you and op who instead put some minimal effort into organized team play prefer whine and blame others, while demanding ZOS to screw over organized gameplay in a MMO game. You want play solo? Go play first Morrowind.

Subversus

Gravord wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

You want play solo? Go play first Morrowind.

I didn't know TES: Morrowind had pvp.

Waffennacht

Gravord wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

OP didnt ask to just didnt allow premades option to q but any size of the groups. 2-3 friends playing together is also something he sees as crime. Not anyone fault he is so bad nobody want to play with him or with you on that matter.
Myself i would prefer meeting only premades against every time, but sadly theres too many baddies like you and op who instead put some minimal effort into organized team play prefer whine and blame others, while demanding ZOS to screw over organized gameplay in a MMO game. You want play solo? Go play first Morrowind.

If people hadn't paid for the content you'd have a point. But everyone should have the ability to participate in content they paid for.

Or else people stop buying things

Lexxypwns

You cannot compete with a min/max pre-made on anything but a min/max pre-made but then you steam roll pugs, it’s definitely an issue, but most pre-mades aren’t nearly min/maxed and can be beaten by a decent pug.

I think allowing solo or duo queue only would be better than just solo. That way you can ensure you’ve got at least 1 friend to play with

Edit: I can confirm what @Beardimus says. I mostly solo but I’m a team player and make calls and work with my team and often get hate tells for running pre-mades when it’s just smart players working together.

Gravord

Waffennacht wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

OP didnt ask to just didnt allow premades option to q but any size of the groups. 2-3 friends playing together is also something he sees as crime. Not anyone fault he is so bad nobody want to play with him or with you on that matter.
Myself i would prefer meeting only premades against every time, but sadly theres too many baddies like you and op who instead put some minimal effort into organized team play prefer whine and blame others, while demanding ZOS to screw over organized gameplay in a MMO game. You want play solo? Go play first Morrowind.

If people hadn't paid for the content you'd have a point. But everyone should have the ability to participate in content they paid for.

Or else people stop buying things

You are totally right. And i payed for small scale organized pvp matches. If ppl are too lazy to put an effort of organizing own team or close to no effort of joining existing one - thats on them and they have no right or justification to demand to penalize ppl who do put effort to perform better.

Edit: should we disband dungeon premades aswell? And trials? Lets promote lazy baddies who cant even use zone chat to organize team over ppl who put effort? Sorry, not a slacker mode supporter, never will be. Put effort, organize yourself, stop crying you get stomped when you deserve it.

Lexxypwns

Gravord wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

LIke u done with CP in bg-s, added, than removed on PTS now.
Do this - give us only random queue in next patch please.
LIke if players are in group they are not able to queue.
Or randomly come to different groups until match ends.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel

Maybe if you git gud somebody will want to play with you? Dont put your baddiness here demanding ppl who bother to organize teams to be punished because nobody wants play with you.

Because you're so skilled, farming clueless pugs in BGs with a full premade. Very skilled gamplay right there. Get outta here lol

OP didnt ask to just didnt allow premades option to q but any size of the groups. 2-3 friends playing together is also something he sees as crime. Not anyone fault he is so bad nobody want to play with him or with you on that matter.
Myself i would prefer meeting only premades against every time, but sadly theres too many baddies like you and op who instead put some minimal effort into organized team play prefer whine and blame others, while demanding ZOS to screw over organized gameplay in a MMO game. You want play solo? Go play first Morrowind.

If people hadn't paid for the content you'd have a point. But everyone should have the ability to participate in content they paid for.

Or else people stop buying things

You are totally right. And i payed for small scale organized pvp matches. If ppl are too lazy to put an effort of organizing own team or close to no effort of joining existing one - thats on them and they have no right or justification to demand to penalize ppl who do put effort to perform better.

Edit: should we disband dungeon premades aswell? And trials? Lets promote lazy baddies who cant even use zone chat to organize team over ppl who put effort? Sorry, not a slacker mode supporter, never will be. Put effort, organize yourself, stop crying you get stomped when you deserve it.

BGs was never billed as truly competitive organized small scale. There’s no MMR or valid leaderboards. That’s your bad for assuming it is.

BGs was billed as quick to jump into fast paced small scale combat. There’s nothing quick about building a 4 man and sitting in longer queues.

Pre-mades haven’t even been bad on Xbox na lately but that doesn’t make your bad logic ok.

FakeFox

While I agree that it sucks to play with randoms against premade, what exactly is the point of playing BGs if I can't play with my friends? To me there is none.