Scatter Shot...

DDuke

Can this ability finally get a range increase? Pretty please?


The main obstacle that prevents bow builds from really being competitive in PvP on most classes is the lack of a good ranged CC.


There is a CC in the Bow skill line, but for some absurd reason it has a 10m range. Why on earth is this the case?

Bow skill line has passive (Long Shots) which incentivizes you to stay at maximum range, its other skills don't exactly encourage you to get in practically melee range to get interrupted with bash.


If we were to compare, Destructive Clench from Destruction Staff has pretty much the same travel speed, same damage, same CC, but also has 28m range.

So why does Scatter Shot have 10m range?


Would be nice to have this changed in this PTS cycle.

Morgul667

It would be nice to have its range increased a little but I feel like snipers are strong enough already

DDuke

Morgul667 wrote: »

It would be nice to have its range increased a little but I feel like snipers are strong enough already

If it had 28m range that wouldn't really affect ganking and/or the popular 40m+ "spam snipe from behind zerg" builds, but it'd give classes other than stamplar a ranged CC they can actually use effectively.

At the moment there's two ways of fighting 1v1s/1vXs with a bow build:

1. You play a stamplar & slot Binding Javelin (blockable/dodgeable, not the most reliable CC in the game).
2. You play stamblade & lure people into fear traps (again, not the most reliable thing in the world...) & time your burst accordingly

I've tried other classes only to be disappointed. Rune Cage for instance sounded like a great thing to combo with Bombard->Asylum Snipe, until I learned it actually lands after the snipe no matter the range you shoot from...


Long story short, lack of a ranged CC just ruins most of the potential bow builds out there.

In an ideal world, you'd have multiple CC options to pick from (like magicka builds do), but bow builds struggle to find even one worth slotting

Edziu

yeah, I back few days agon to eso but only pvp and idk for long, tried today 1st time draining shot....I was very very dissapointed...
those 10m range for this skill especially on bow is that pathetic, in few moment I tried to use it even when enemy was so close to me and what? every my try was out of range for this skill...I tried to get close to use it just for this cc and then heal and I neede to be almost in melee range to use it which also its biting together
ffs why bow as range weapon with main "spammable" skill on very lon range with cast time which should be cast only at range because of time needed to shot also have the only cc skill working only almost in melee range while almost this knocback is maybe just for quarter range if not less of snipe which is useless in that short range especially in small scale pvp

Taleof2Cities

@DDuke, we're trying to give ZOS feedback on existing combat changes in this current PTS cycle ... not new ideas that ZOS may or may not adopt.

Try to use the Combat & Character Mechanics subforums for combat ideas not related to what's already in the game. Thanks.

DDuke

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

@DDuke, we're trying to give ZOS feedback on existing combat changes in this current PTS cycle ... not new ideas that ZOS may or may not adopt.

Try to use the Combat & Character Mechanics subforums for combat ideas not related to what's already in the game. Thanks.

"New ideas"? As if there haven't been dozens of threads on this (and other bow issues) in the past across multiple subforums...

If you take a look at some other changes in this patch (i.e. miats getting fixed, cast time ability changes etc), one could think they're atleast trying to make bow builds viable again in PvP.

I'm merely pointing out what else needs to happen for that to actually be the case. That's called "being constructive".

SodanTok

If only 28m. Destro Clench is 41m when near keep while Scatter Shot is still 10m. The same range of dawnbreaker.

Jade1986

SodanTok wrote: »

If only 28m. Destro Clench is 41m when near keep while Scatter Shot is still 10m. The same range of dawnbreaker.

Thats insane. Honestly this needs to be changed. 10 meters and then it only knocks the player back 6 meters is insane. It doesnt create any meaningful distance between the user and attacker.

Subversus

Would be an interesting change to say the least. I can imagine the combo already, stealth up, empower, snipe > light attack scatter shot (unbreakable cc) > light attack poison injection to finish off. Bow ganking might be a thing again if miat were to exit the picture completely.

DDuke

Subversus wrote: »

Would be an interesting change to say the least. I can imagine the combo already, stealth up, empower, snipe > light attack scatter shot (unbreakable cc) > light attack poison injection to finish off. Bow ganking might be a thing again if miat were to exit the picture completely.

Well, you already go Snipe->Bombard/Acid Spray (almost same dmg as Magnum Shot, more dmg than Draining Shot) for Asylum buff if you're ganking, so it wouldn't really change the gank itself.


It'd mainly change how bow performs outside ganking & would allow for more kill potential in non-stealth encounters (atm you have no CC to consistently combo your burst with on 4/5 classes).

For an example, if your gank fails it would allow you to actually keep fighting, rather than "force" you to just go back to stealth because there's no way you're killing that opponent otherwise.

Subversus

DDuke wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Would be an interesting change to say the least. I can imagine the combo already, stealth up, empower, snipe > light attack scatter shot (unbreakable cc) > light attack poison injection to finish off. Bow ganking might be a thing again if miat were to exit the picture completely.

Well, you already go Snipe->Bombard/Acid Spray (almost same dmg as Magnum Shot, more dmg than Draining Shot) for Asylum buff if you're ganking, so it wouldn't really change the gank itself.


It'd mainly change how bow performs outside ganking & would allow for more kill potential in non-stealth encounters (atm you have no CC to consistently combo your burst with on 4/5 classes).

For an example, if your gank fails it would allow you to actually keep fighting, rather than "force" you to just go back to stealth because there's no way you're killing that opponent otherwise.

I actually forgot about the asylum staff option haha; I guess this other one could be used from range at least.

SodanTok

SodanTok wrote: »

If only 28m. Destro Clench is 41m when near keep while Scatter Shot is still 10m. The same range of dawnbreaker.

Actually comparing abilities to different ones never worked in past, so lets try it differently:

Near keep range of commonly used abilities on bow builds

• Rapid fire - 41m
• Snipe - 48m
• Arrow Spray - 25m (if Reach affects it)
• Poison Arrow - 41m
• Light/Heavy attacks - 41m (just a guess)
• Templar's Binding Javelin - 41m
• Templar's Power of the Light - 41m
• Nightblade's Mark Target - 63m (wait, rly?)
• Nightblade's Relentless Focus - 41m (just a guess)
• Warden's Cutting Dive - 41m
• Warden's Subterranean Assault - 20m (I assume it is not boosted by Reach)

Cant really say what DKs use since I have no experience, but they are all pretty much limited to melee range anyway so I would guess on them the 10m is the least of problems.
And Sorcs really do not have any skill (lol) except Hurricane, which while of limited range is mostly useful for the armor and speed boost.

There are other abilities used in past or used in some situations like Silver Bolt (41m), Lightweight Beast Trap (41m) or all the magicka CCs like Rune Prison or Stonefist with usual range of 41m.

Add on that the PASSIVE of bows to get more damage from range (however underwhelming and meaningless range is in this game outside of standing on walls or behind zerg)

And it does not take genius to figure out, that 10m is not in any way operative range of any ranged stamina build. It doesn't make sense and does not fit the tools available AT ALL. Something ZoS spent actively trying to change for all other builds (remember when we had short-mid range magicka skills before they decided all ranged magicka skills should be long ranged).
The smallest operative range (without limitation of scatter shot) is 20m. The range to fully benefit from the passive is ~25m. The designed range is very obviously (given all other ranged skills range) 41m when near keep in Cyrodiil (so 28m in PVE).

The gapcloser range in PVP is 22m
This is ranged CC with knockback, yet even when used from maximum possible range and achieving maximum possible knockback (6m I think) it does not even create larger distance than is required for gapclosing.

Jeezye

tbh, I use the scatter shot on my stamwarden and am very happy with the skill. Imo, it is meant to be used defensively if you get jumped, and the 10m range works just fine, maybe increase it to up to 15. With the decent range, you can however also implement it in your offensive combo if you use a melee weapon in addition to your bow.

What really annoys me is its bug with dodge roll. Since you most likely play a medium armor build with your bow and are casting this skill in a defensive way, you want to animation cancel it with dodgeroll. This however removes BOTH the stun AND the healing component, which forces you to stand still until it connects. While this is super annoying, it can actually be abused to endlessly knock back your opponent.

So I'd suggest to just increase the range by a fair bit (to 15m) and finally fix this damn thing.

DDuke

Jeezye wrote: »

tbh, I use the scatter shot on my stamwarden and am very happy with the skill. Imo, it is meant to be used defensively if you get jumped, and the 10m range works just fine, maybe increase it to up to 15. With the decent range, you can however also implement it in your offensive combo if you use a melee weapon in addition to your bow.

What really annoys me is its bug with dodge roll. Since you most likely play a medium armor build with your bow and are casting this skill in a defensive way, you want to animation cancel it with dodgeroll. This however removes BOTH the stun AND the healing component, which forces you to stand still until it connects. While this is super annoying, it can actually be abused to endlessly knock back your opponent.

So I'd suggest to just increase the range by a fair bit (to 15m) and finally fix this damn thing.

Out of curiosity, are you playing an actual bow build, or a build with bow on off bar?

Because Scatter Shot is absolutely awful even as a purely defensive skill for bow builds.

Why? It basicly only works against melee attackers in that purpose.


What are you going to do if there's a sorc or magblade 28m+ away spamming skills at you? Run up to that player (10m) & use Scatter Shot?

I've tested Scatter Shot & both of its morphs extensively on both stamblade & stam sorc - it's just not worth bar space and doesn't synergize with ranged playstyle. There are better skills to slot if you need more defense, skills that function vs both ranged & melee builds.

SodanTok

DDuke wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

tbh, I use the scatter shot on my stamwarden and am very happy with the skill. Imo, it is meant to be used defensively if you get jumped, and the 10m range works just fine, maybe increase it to up to 15. With the decent range, you can however also implement it in your offensive combo if you use a melee weapon in addition to your bow.

What really annoys me is its bug with dodge roll. Since you most likely play a medium armor build with your bow and are casting this skill in a defensive way, you want to animation cancel it with dodgeroll. This however removes BOTH the stun AND the healing component, which forces you to stand still until it connects. While this is super annoying, it can actually be abused to endlessly knock back your opponent.

So I'd suggest to just increase the range by a fair bit (to 15m) and finally fix this damn thing.

Out of curiosity, are you playing an actual bow build, or a build with bow on off bar?

Because Scatter Shot is absolutely awful even as a purely defensive skill for bow builds.

Why? It basicly only works against melee attackers in that purpose.


What are you going to do if there's a sorc or magblade 28m+ away spamming skills at you? Run up to that player (10m) & use Scatter Shot?

I've tested Scatter Shot & both of its morphs extensively on both stamblade & stam sorc - it's just not worth bar space and doesn't synergize with ranged playstyle. There are better skills to slot if you need more defense, skills that function vs both ranged & melee builds.

Well, on warden it is not that bad But yeah this is exactly the problem, I have coward gear on him just so I can run to people to be allowed to play the game. It is literally worse than playing melee build with gap closer.

Jeezye

DDuke wrote: »

Out of curiosity, are you playing an actual bow build, or a build with bow on off bar?

Because Scatter Shot is absolutely awful even as a purely defensive skill for bow builds.

Why? It basicly only works against melee attackers in that purpose.


What are you going to do if there's a sorc or magblade 28m+ away spamming skills at you? Run up to that player (10m) & use Scatter Shot?

I've tested Scatter Shot & both of its morphs extensively on both stamblade & stam sorc - it's just not worth bar space and doesn't synergize with ranged playstyle. There are better skills to slot if you need more defense, skills that function vs both ranged & melee builds.

Have to admit its a 2h/bow build with the main damage coming from the 2h bar. I have to agree that if you want to really play a pure ranged style stambuild, the skill wont work out for you. From the design of stamina build over all though, I think they are meant to be played in close quarters. I mean theres I cant think of any stamina class ability that is long range (maybe javelin but thats mostly a stun), so bow itself is meant to provide assistance to this close combat playstyle. you can still spamm snipe, but if some1 turns on you its time to switch to your melee weapon or use other skills to create a gap.

BTW I know you since youre playing on EUW too I also know youre playing well, so I kinda dont understand why you want bows to be a main damage weapon just like staffs?

DDuke

Jeezye wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Out of curiosity, are you playing an actual bow build, or a build with bow on off bar?

Because Scatter Shot is absolutely awful even as a purely defensive skill for bow builds.

Why? It basicly only works against melee attackers in that purpose.


What are you going to do if there's a sorc or magblade 28m+ away spamming skills at you? Run up to that player (10m) & use Scatter Shot?

I've tested Scatter Shot & both of its morphs extensively on both stamblade & stam sorc - it's just not worth bar space and doesn't synergize with ranged playstyle. There are better skills to slot if you need more defense, skills that function vs both ranged & melee builds.

Have to admit its a 2h/bow build with the main damage coming from the 2h bar. I have to agree that if you want to really play a pure ranged style stambuild, the skill wont work out for you. From the design of stamina build over all though, I think they are meant to be played in close quarters. I mean theres I cant think of any stamina class ability that is long range (maybe javelin but thats mostly a stun), so bow itself is meant to provide assistance to this close combat playstyle. you can still spamm snipe, but if some1 turns on you its time to switch to your melee weapon or use other skills to create a gap.

There are some apart from javelin: Relentless Focus, Power of the Light, Cutting Dive, Sub Assault & Silver Shards.

Some of those can be really strong when combo'd with Snipe (cast/travel time lets you land multiple abilities at the same time). It's never really about "spamming snipe" with bow, not if you know what you're doing.

If you play a bow build, the last thing you want to do is swap to a melee weapon. You're most likely wearing sets like Marksman, Morag Tong, Agility/Slimecraw, Hawkeye etc and just get crushed in seconds by the meta melee builds in such situations.

Jeezye wrote: »

BTW I know you since youre playing on EUW too I also know youre playing well, so I kinda dont understand why you want bows to be a main damage weapon just like staffs?

Build diversity for starters. I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist - while my main character has always been a dual wielding rogue in (MMO)RPGs, I've also enjoyed playing and fighting against hunters & rangers in them.

And the fact that a stealth playstyle in ESO is much more enjoyable on a bow build - no volatile armors or other AoEs & det pots to break every single cloak. No having a zerg immediately pile up on you when you jump on one player...


Also, 4 years of playing melee builds... one is bound to get bored at some point.

Rianai

DDuke wrote: »

[...]I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist [...]

Because there are 2 ranged magicka weapons but only 1 ranged stamina weapon - and slotting 2 different weapons is usually better than running the same type of weapon on both bars. Nobody plays double destro (in PvP), or double resto or double dw, which all might be even worse than double bow. Which is ok imo. And in combination with another weapon bow is already a very solid choice in both PvE and PvP, so this has to be taken into consideration when discussing buffs for the weapon.

I can understand the wish for a strong archer like build, but on the other hand Cyrodiil is already infested by so many bow players spamming snipe and poison injection from the safety of zergs and walls and stealth, and i definitely don't want this braindead playstyle to be buffed.

ArchMikem

Morgul667 wrote: »

It would be nice to have its range increased a little but I feel like snipers are strong enough already

Strong enough? Snipers are priority target #1. Every single time I walk in on a large-ish fight firing off my bow the person I'm hitting immediately looks for and chases me down, regardless of who they're fighting. Sniping is a liability if you're not hiding up on a wall.

Jeezye

DDuke wrote: »

Build diversity for starters. I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist - while my main character has always been a dual wielding rogue in (MMO)RPGs, I've also enjoyed playing and fighting against hunters & rangers in them.

And the fact that a stealth playstyle in ESO is much more enjoyable on a bow build - no volatile armors or other AoEs & det pots to break every single cloak. No having a zerg immediately pile up on you when you jump on one player...


Also, 4 years of playing melee builds... one is bound to get bored at some point.

I see your point and really support off-meta builds (currently assembling hybrid NB, 2h magdk, bow warden ...). I can actually remember I myself tried to put a range kind of build into practice a while ago (always wanted to play a bow warden with bear ). While assembling, I also discovered the lack of disengage-ability on bow builds, I mean every melee player can just spam gapclosers on you.

Maybe the magnum shot morph should be changed to have its damage component reduced, and therefore range and both knockback distances increased? Would seem like a fair tradeoff. Maybe even grant minor expedition or so.

DDuke

Rianai wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

[...]I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist [...]

Because there are 2 ranged magicka weapons but only 1 ranged stamina weapon - and slotting 2 different weapons is usually better than running the same type of weapon on both bars. Nobody plays double destro (in PvP), or double resto or double dw, which all might be even worse than double bow. Which is ok imo. And in combination with another weapon bow is already a very solid choice in both PvE and PvP, so this has to be taken into consideration when discussing buffs for the weapon.

You're wrong on that account though.

I had a very strong DW/DW build back in 2015, and I can still see DW/DW being a strong setup with certain set/skill choices. Also, afaik most of the S&B mag DK builds run S&B on both bars.

I've also seen destro/destro builds that run frost staff for blocking on off bar.

It's not that black & white in the end, sometimes you need multiple skills from a weapon skill line, but don't have space for them on one bar.
Sometimes you need that strong off bar weapon that just happens to also be same type as your main bar weapon (i.e. Master's Bow for bow builds, which also require Asylum for main bar).

Also, I don't see why bow has to be the "off bar" for most builds. Why shouldn't a build run Bow/DW or Bow/2H (in that order)?

Rianai wrote: »

I can understand the wish for a strong archer like build, but on the other hand Cyrodiil is already infested by so many bow players spamming snipe and poison injection from the safety of zergs and walls and stealth, and i definitely don't want this braindead playstyle to be buffed.

Sure, but the problem here isn't the archers - it's zergs. And if you find the walls problematic... move away from walls - problem solved.

I mean, regardless of which character of mine I'm playing, in 1vX I'm happy if there's archers instead of gap closer incap rev slice spamming nuisances, they're less dangerous.


But anyway, the 40m+ snipe spamming noobs who utilize the bow in the most ineffective (but annoying) way imaginable wouldn't get buffed by having a 28m CC.

In fact, it would mean less 40m+ snipe spammers because they'd now try to actually combo their skills effectively, and would have to get in your gap closer range in order to do that.

SodanTok

Rianai wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

[...]I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist [...]

Because there are 2 ranged magicka weapons but only 1 ranged stamina weapon - and slotting 2 different weapons is usually better than running the same type of weapon on both bars. Nobody plays double destro (in PvP), or double resto or double dw, which all might be even worse than double bow. Which is ok imo. And in combination with another weapon bow is already a very solid choice in both PvE and PvP, so this has to be taken into consideration when discussing buffs for the weapon.

I can understand the wish for a strong archer like build, but on the other hand Cyrodiil is already infested by so many bow players spamming snipe and poison injection from the safety of zergs and walls and stealth, and i definitely don't want this braindead playstyle to be buffed.

That is not very strong point, since nearly no weapon mix of builds actually use the offbar for offensive. The resto heavy on sorcs is very good for sustain I guess, but it is still mostly used for the defensive skills there. You could put those on melee (magicka) weapon and except losing the resto heavy, everything woudl remain same.

For bow it is the same thing. Easy case to be made for bow/2h and bow/snb to get rally or blocking capabilities (my warden builds is bow/snb). You can make 2h/2h builds too and be more effective than bow/anything. There is just no reason to use same weapons on both bar since they are all melee.

But to break it to you, Cyrodiil is infested with many [insert weapon] [insert class] spamming [insert skill]. Except ALL bow players are in these zergs, because that is literally the only place they are allowed to be in Cyro.

Lexxypwns

@DDuke while a buff is in order, I think making sure you can’t use an instant cast hard CC from 40+ meters is important. A buff to 24m makes it exempt from reach but still usable from outside gap closer range so that it’s a nice ranged CC and a kiting tool

SodanTok

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@DDuke while a buff is in order, I think making sure you can’t use an instant cast hard CC from 40+ meters is important. A buff to 24m makes it exempt from reach but still usable from outside gap closer range so that it’s a nice ranged CC and a kiting tool

It is not hard CC tho... or depends how you mean it? It is no different than javelin or destro reach basically. It has travel time and it is easily blockable and dodgeable.

But yeah, 24m would be great compromise

Lexxypwns

SodanTok wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@DDuke while a buff is in order, I think making sure you can’t use an instant cast hard CC from 40+ meters is important. A buff to 24m makes it exempt from reach but still usable from outside gap closer range so that it’s a nice ranged CC and a kiting tool

It is not hard CC tho... or depends how you mean it?

Yes it is, it’s a knock back and you have to CC break it. It locks you out of your skills if you don’t CC break.


http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Scatter+Shot

SodanTok

Lexxypwns wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@DDuke while a buff is in order, I think making sure you can’t use an instant cast hard CC from 40+ meters is important. A buff to 24m makes it exempt from reach but still usable from outside gap closer range so that it’s a nice ranged CC and a kiting tool

It is not hard CC tho... or depends how you mean it?

Yes it is, it’s a knock back and you have to CC break it. It locks you out of your skills if you don’t CC break

Oh yeah, I edited the post. FIrst I thought you mean it is unblockable.

Xvorg

DDuke wrote: »

Can this ability finally get a range increase? Pretty please?


The main obstacle that prevents bow builds from really being competitive in PvP on most classes is the lack of a good ranged CC.


There is a CC in the Bow skill line, but for some absurd reason it has a 10m range. Why on earth is this the case?

Bow skill line has passive (Long Shots) which incentivizes you to stay at maximum range, its other skills don't exactly encourage you to get in practically melee range to get interrupted with bash.


If we were to compare, Destructive Clench from Destruction Staff has pretty much the same travel speed, same damage, same CC, but also has 28m range.

So why does Scatter Shot have 10m range?


Would be nice to have this changed in this PTS cycle.

Funny thing, it's a 10 mts range skill that does not count as melee. At least they should make it a melee skill (red diamond does not trigers)

Rianai

DDuke wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

[...]I don't see a reason why only ranged magicka builds should exist [...]

Because there are 2 ranged magicka weapons but only 1 ranged stamina weapon - and slotting 2 different weapons is usually better than running the same type of weapon on both bars. Nobody plays double destro (in PvP), or double resto or double dw, which all might be even worse than double bow. Which is ok imo. And in combination with another weapon bow is already a very solid choice in both PvE and PvP, so this has to be taken into consideration when discussing buffs for the weapon.

You're wrong on that account though.

I had a very strong DW/DW build back in 2015, and I can still see DW/DW being a strong setup with certain set/skill choices. Also, afaik most of the S&B mag DK builds run S&B on both bars.

I've also seen destro/destro builds that run frost staff for blocking on off bar.

I don't think i've ever run into a dw/dw or 2h/2h or double destro player, let alone a decent one. Maybe it was a thing in 2015, but that isn't relevant now. It may be still possible to make those builds work somehow, but i can't belive it is more common or better than bow/bow.
You are right about s&b though, which is why i didn't list it - and it tells a lot about that weapon set ...

DDuke wrote: »

It's not that black & white in the end, sometimes you need multiple skills from a weapon skill line, but don't have space for them on one bar.
Sometimes you need that strong off bar weapon that just happens to also be same type as your main bar weapon (i.e. Master's Bow for bow builds, which also require Asylum for main bar).

Also, I don't see why bow has to be the "off bar" for most builds. Why shouldn't a build run Bow/DW or Bow/2H (in that order)?

Well, for most weapon sets there isn't the luxury of having a strong 1p set choice for both bars
But yes, generally there is no reason for bow to not be a viable main weapon. I don't disagree with you here, i'm just biased ^^
(reasons stated below).

DDuke wrote: »

But anyway, the 40m+ snipe spamming noobs who utilize the bow in the most ineffective (but annoying) way imaginable wouldn't get buffed by having a 28m CC.

In fact, it would mean less 40m+ snipe spammers because they'd now try to actually combo their skills effectively, and would have to get in your gap closer range in order to do that.

I'm not against your proposed scatter shot buff per se. It won't buff the average sniper spammer, you are right, but it also won't reduce the amount of those (just like the asylum bow didn't change much - they just can't be bothered to try a more demanding playstyle than snipe, snipe, snipe, except for occasional addition of poison injection and/or piercing mark).

I know bow is lacking in some aspects and you'd like to change that - i can understand that, and normally i wouldn't be against seeing more diversity in builds and playstyles. But i also know, bow is broken in some aspect. Well, maybe not the bow itself, more the game in general. But due to the amount of bow spammers that i encounter in Cyrodiil, bugged snipes are the number 1 reason for my "bug-related" deaths. So thinking about anything, that could encourage even more players to pick up a bow and use it for more than the speed buff and poison injection, makes me feel ... not very happy - to word it nicely.