When is the AOE-caps goodbye party? :D

Tillalarrien

PTS 3.3.0:
Area of Effect abilities now deal full damage to all targets hit, instead of having a damage penalty after hitting 7 or more targets. Secondary effects from those Area of Effect abilities (snares, stuns, etc.) are still capped at 6 targets.

You will not be missed!

DTStormfox

Don't you realise that this also buffs ball groups?
They basically have to press their Sap Essence less frequently to deal more damage. Their destro-ultimates will deal damage to more players. Steel Tornado will deal damage to more players etc. etc.

It however does offer smaller groups to also have a chance against them again.

VaranisArano

The AOE-Caps goodbye party is the last night in Cyrodiil before maintenance starts for Update 17. Be there or be square!

Vaoh

DTStormfox wrote: »

Don't you realise that this also buffs ball groups?
They basically have to press their Sap Essence less frequently to deal more damage. Their destro-ultimates will deal damage to more players. Steel Tornado will deal damage to more players etc. etc.

It however does offer smaller groups to also have a chance against them again.

The problem of AoE Caps was that it directly granted strength through balled up numbers. Now if a large group balls up it’ll take only a few synchronized Mag NB bombers to wipe them out. Doesn’t sound like a buff to zergs at all lol. On the contrary, it sounds like a massive buff to coordinated small groups to actually *win* against the massive rolling zergs that stomp everything through numbers alone.

Very much looking forward to PvP next patch

VaranisArano

Its a massive buff to organized players and bombers and massive nerf to disorganized masses of players.

umagon

It’s more of a party for organized groups both large and small; as the change will now allow them to farm clustered pick up group and solos much easier. Despite already having an advantage by being organized and coordinated.

Organized groups become even more harder defeat because they will need less damage to defeat large groups of unorganized players. And they will be able to equip themselves more defensively as a collective. So, both their collective survivability and damage ouput has increased with this change.

A_G_G_R_O

DTStormfox wrote: »

Don't you realise that this also buffs ball groups?
They basically have to press their Sap Essence less frequently to deal more damage. Their destro-ultimates will deal damage to more players. Steel Tornado will deal damage to more players etc. etc.

It however does offer smaller groups to also have a chance against them again.

I run in groups of 6 or less. So I was always taking full dmg. So it’s a buff for myself and friends! Am much excite.

A_G_G_R_O

@umagon yeah but the clustered pug hordes still have the advantage of numbers. Why should they gain the advantage of RNG major protection on AoE’s?

Ghostbane

tinythinker

I wonder if they ever considered reducing caster movement speed by 40-50% with these AoEs like Impulse, Whirlwind, Eye of the Storm, etc. Any AoE you can spam while moving or which has a long duration.

In PvE, you aren't going to use those until you are on top of a pack of mobs, so moving a bit slowly won't matter (and for the non-ult abilities who cares? just stop spamming and re-position if you need to). For Cyrodiil, if people who are using EotS or spamming Steel Tornado or Pulsar, their blob will outrun them. Tactical approaches involving well timed and planned snares and stuns would be required else people just run away really easily from the blob of slow people.

Sanct16

It won't change anything.

Publius_Scipio

When Fengrush returns!

Lucky28

DTStormfox wrote: »

Don't you realise that this also buffs ball groups?
They basically have to press their Sap Essence less frequently to deal more damage. Their destro-ultimates will deal damage to more players. Steel Tornado will deal damage to more players etc. etc.

It however does offer smaller groups to also have a chance against them again.

thing is tho. you really can't buff small groups and not buff large groups as a result. but i would rather buff small groups and large groups than just buff zergs and nerf the *** out of small groups.... so, step in the right direction.

umagon

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

@umagon yeah but the clustered pug hordes still have the advantage of numbers. Why should they gain the advantage of RNG major protection on AoE’s?

It doesn’t matter either way because it both ways cluster groups of players are still going to happen. The problem I have with change isn’t the fact it helps organized groups. It more that it will be largely ineffective at preventing players clustering together.

I am going to assume the devs idea is to make clustering for unorganized so dangerous that they don’t cluster. And there by making organized groups who take advantage of clustering less effective. But I don’t think it will work out. It’s the same logic they used every other solution; “increase the damage”. And its failed time after time. I don’t know why people think it’s going to work this time.

I said it before player collision ultimately the best solution. Yes, it requires them moving things around a bit like the transit shrines and some of the npc vendors. Working out a way for dodge to clip through some players to prevent excessive body blocking, etc. But in the end, it eliminates the problem all together as players can not physically share the same space and have to spread out.

And it does allow for smaller groups to be more effective in certain situations because at choke points the they can 300 larger groups of players to death.

VaranisArano

umagon wrote: »

And it does allow for smaller groups to be more effective in certain situations because at choke points the they can 300 larger groups of players to death.

End Result of Organized Small Group Vs. Zerg

Ghostbane

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

When Fengrush returns!

I mean, they added his hair to the crown store, now they do this, his soul campaigning wish. ZoS are desperate for him back.

Ghostbane

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

When Fengrush returns!

I mean, they added his hair to the crown store, now they do this, his soul campaigning wish. ZoS are desperate for him back.

Rin_Senya

Sanct16 wrote: »

It won't change anything.

don't ruin Christmas for people yet, Sanct

Vencenzo

VaranisArano wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

And it does allow for smaller groups to be more effective in certain situations because at choke points the they can 300 larger groups of players to death.

End Result of Organized Small Group Vs. Zerg

Ready for this.

Another thing to celebrate is I've been nerfed every patch since late 2014. Now I'm getting a couple buffs with no nerfs. Crazy..

Kiara

Can't wait to hit zerglings like a truck

AyelineESO

Mhmmm. Zergs blowing up even faster than they already do. Cant wait for ppl to complain about organised groups even more than they do already

Morgul667

So happy

Vilestride

Sanct16 wrote: »

It won't change anything.

Not true, it will change the amount of forum posts you need to sift through regarding calls for AoE cap removals.

A very positive change. Good work ZOS.

Elong

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a massive buff to organized players and bombers and massive nerf to disorganized masses of players.

As it should be. Disorganised masses have the advantage of numbers, organised groups have the advantage of, well, organisation. If you're prepared to spend time being organised, you deserve the rewards too.

Sanct16

Elong wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a massive buff to organized players and bombers and massive nerf to disorganized masses of players.

As it should be. Disorganised masses have the advantage of numbers, organised groups have the advantage of, well, organisation. If you're prepared to spend time being organised, you deserve the rewards too.

Just wait for the unorganised masses to start complaining once they realise they still can't kill the infamous ball groups.

Xsorus

Its not really a buff to ball groups

When you consider most ball groups are hitting unorganized players..That don't tend to ball up often....even when they do they die anyway because they're not backed by multiple other things like Earthgore and healers.

It does mean that every ball group out there though running will take more damage...

zyk

Xsorus wrote: »

Its not really a buff to ball groups

When you consider most ball groups are hitting unorganized players..That don't tend to ball up often....even when they do they die anyway because they're not backed by multiple other things like Earthgore and healers.

It does mean that every ball group out there though running will take more damage...

Most ball groups concentrate opponents in choke points.

All objectives feature choke points. Emp keeps and Outposts are composed entirely of choke points.

Good ball groups are already adept at spreading out when necessary. They're good gamers -- who don't get enough credit for that in some circles -- with lots of tools at their disposal. They will adapt. Other organized groups will copy them.

If this goes live, I think there will be outrage on the forums as 2-6 nightblades wipe entire keeps of randoms and pugs. zos will be zos and respond by nerfing nbs, but it won't change anything.

I'm 100% neutral on the topic, but I don't think it's going to work out like a lot of people seem to think it will. All affected AEs are basically OP with this change. We're going to be seeing 1M DPS bombs.

Elong

Sanct16 wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Its a massive buff to organized players and bombers and massive nerf to disorganized masses of players.

As it should be. Disorganised masses have the advantage of numbers, organised groups have the advantage of, well, organisation. If you're prepared to spend time being organised, you deserve the rewards too.

Just wait for the unorganised masses to start complaining once they realise they still can't kill the infamous ball groups.

Yeah totally. The backlash a week after launch is gonna be hilarious. I don't particularly enjoy ball group play but there's an appreciation for what goes into it, and the good ones don't just hit destro. The bad ones will get wiped away, the better ones will wipe even more pugs now. Fair enough too.

Qbiken

Tillalarrien wrote: »

PTS 3.3.0:
Area of Effect abilities now deal full damage to all targets hit, instead of having a damage penalty after hitting 7 or more targets. Secondary effects from those Area of Effect abilities (snares, stuns, etc.) are still capped at 6 targets.

How is an ability like Soul-Tether affected by this? Will it add a beam and damage to all targets but only stun 6?

Vilestride

Qbiken wrote: »

Tillalarrien wrote: »

PTS 3.3.0:
Area of Effect abilities now deal full damage to all targets hit, instead of having a damage penalty after hitting 7 or more targets. Secondary effects from those Area of Effect abilities (snares, stuns, etc.) are still capped at 6 targets.

How is an ability like Soul-Tether affected by this? Will it add a beam and damage to all targets but only stun 6?

That's a good question. I imagine the beam and the health steal also count as a secondary effects.

So I assume (but could be wrong) that the damage will have no cap, but the beam/heal and the stun will be capped at 6.

Tommy_The_Gun

Buffing already powerful AOE does not make much sense. At this point AOE have literary no flaws or disadvantages.
Those can't be dodged or blocked. There is simply no benefit of using non AOE attacks over AOE. But there should be.
AOE should have some trade-of. Some kind of flaw. But they don't. When AOE caps will be removed there will be simply no point in using most "single target" skills.

Why to use lets say Strife or Twin Slashes or any other "single target" skill that will deal like 3 - 5K DMG when you can use AOE that will deal 3 - 5K DMG to everyone near you with "ZERO" chances of dodging / blocking that dmg ?