Can you please consider not giveing males lipstick in their Crown Crates

Rohamad_Ali

Then I'll never be able to do this by the corner market .

Orticia

LadyAstrum wrote: »

Wintergreen wrote: »

To me, the "ick" factor appeared when the OP said he was "insulted' by receiving "something meant for women." Insulted.

I remember feeling insulted when my father bought me a tracksuit meant for boys, just because he'd wanted a boy and rather than a girl. Mainly because I'd received something that didn't match my "identity", and that, I suspect is how OP feels. He's receiving something he doesn't identify with. That's not a crime, unless we're truly now in thought-feeling crime territory.

Only your dad specifically picked it out for you. So it was also a personal message to you. Feeling insulted by that is logical and very very much in your right. The lipsticks are given out randomly, simply a roll of the die. Not ah oh you are a male and do not like female items, so here is one just to spite you/change you in what you do not want to be/are. There is nothing personal in getting it. It is simply an unwanted item like any other and it does not say anything about you, nor does anyone intent to want to say anything about you with it.

Mureel

Magdalina wrote: »

Can you still get argonian/khajiit exclusive stuff on human characters from crown crates?

Also, beware. There're inevitably men coming to tell you they have full right to wear lipstick and you have no right to tell them otherwise

Yep I never play any khajiit or purse and I got items for those.

Ostacia

LadyAstrum wrote: »

Wintergreen wrote: »

To me, the "ick" factor appeared when the OP said he was "insulted' by receiving "something meant for women." Insulted.

I remember feeling insulted when my father bought me a tracksuit meant for boys, just because he'd wanted a boy and rather than a girl. Mainly because I'd received something that didn't match my "identity", and that, I suspect is how OP feels. He's receiving something he doesn't identify with. That's not a crime, unless we're truly now in thought-feeling crime territory.

I said "to me" and "ick" (ie. my personal opinion) and therefore the exact opposite of anything remotely akin to a thought-feeling crime. Historically, and even in the present day, women have been and are treated as "less than men" so that's likely where my sensitivity comes from when someone claims to be "insulted" by a completely impersonal (as opposed to a Dad) randomly-generated lipstick.

Abeille

Peebuzzle wrote: »

I wish we could just turn collectibles we don't want into gems - At least 5 gems even if it's an ugly face tattoo worth 40 gems... that's the amount you get for duplicates anyway so it wouldn't harm the greedy crate economy too much.

This would solve OP's issue and many more. Good suggestion.

LadyAstrum

Wintergreen wrote: »

LadyAstrum wrote: »

Wintergreen wrote: »

To me, the "ick" factor appeared when the OP said he was "insulted' by receiving "something meant for women." Insulted.

I remember feeling insulted when my father bought me a tracksuit meant for boys, just because he'd wanted a boy and rather than a girl. Mainly because I'd received something that didn't match my "identity", and that, I suspect is how OP feels. He's receiving something he doesn't identify with. That's not a crime, unless we're truly now in thought-feeling crime territory.

I said "to me" and "ick" (ie. my personal opinion) and therefore the exact opposite of anything remotely akin to a thought-feeling crime. Historically, and even in the present day, women have been and are treated as "less than men" so that's likely where my sensitivity comes from when someone claims to be "insulted" by a completely impersonal (as opposed to a Dad) randomly-generated lipstick.

My point, is that he probably has feelings that go a little deeper than "oh no he offended lipstick-wearers, therefore he's a (insert label here).

I'd personally prefer make-up wasn't even in crates, because that makes it over-priced, and the people that want it have to resort to spending money on gems, and those that don't want it are getting a useless filler better replaced by something else.

Balamoor

I think a simple solution would be to make them tradeable for Gems if they aren't already (I honestly haven't noticed ) That way it gives an out for those who feel uncomfortable by it.

M_Volsung

Belegnole wrote: »

M_Volsung wrote: »

RouDantes wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Dear ESO, please cater to and protect my fragile masculinity. My manliness is threatened by the possibility of putting virtual lipstick on my video game doll... I mean character.

Thank You,

Eli

It's really gonna blow this guy's mind when he learns that high heels were originally only for men, makeup was originally for everyone, pink was originally a masculine boy's color and blue was considered a feminine girl's color, and for most of history, baby boys wore dresses until they could walk. Our current ideas of what men and woman are "supposed" to wear are barely 100 years old.

Also, fedoras were originally meant to be a woman's hat.

I'm afraid you don't know what your talking about. As to the rest, I haven't found a use for the lipstick on any of my toons.

Sadly for you, I do, just read up on Sarah Bernhardt... nice try though, thanks for playing.

Reverb

Nerouyn wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

There's no such thing as a gender specific item. Lipstick can go on any character you want it to. Even for those beholden to societal gender norms, some will be opening crates on a toon of one gender, and use the items on another.

It's rude of you to attribute this to a personal failing on the part of the OP.

I have a roster of male characters. Only. Not a single female one. Dresses, lipstick etc. have absolutely no value to me and there's more than a few of them. I don't pay for crates but I got one of those fancy dresses from a freebie. It's completely wasted on me.

It being a freebie I can't complain but if I were paying for them I might feel otherwise. Yes crates are necessarily often going to give stuff you might not love, but items like these are a kick in the teeth - because you won the rng and got to dip into the good loot table, but gendered items like these are things which many players will definitely never use.

Just in case you're thinking about insulting me too, I'm gay. But I'm not into wearing dresses. I'm not bothered in the slightest by other guys wearing them. I enjoy watching RuPaul's Drag Race. It's hilarious and good natured. But wearing dresses is not for me and anyone who wants to try to make me feel bad about that is a nasty piece of work.

I insulted no one. My point is that the crates don't care, random is random. We can not, and should not be able to, opt out of receiving some low tier prizes based on style or gender preferences.

The crates don't care what we want, or what we like. They don't care about our genders, orientations, races, or style preferences. Not our own, and not our toon's. Nor should they. The structure is such that cosmetic items are only exchanged for gems when they are a duplicate. Changing this for someone's idea of "gender specificity" would give male characters more gems, and higher likelihood of getting apex prizes with said gems. That manipulation of RNG because "mah preferences" offends me.

Ignore your cosmetic drops on your all male roster, the same way we all ignore every single crate item we didn't want. But don't try to use being offended as a tool to manipulate the system.

Tl;dr, Random is random, there are no gender specific drops.

DeadlyRecluse

I have more that one character. I wouldn't want my drops influenced by the character I'm opening crates on.

[Edited for name calling]

Radiance

coop500

This thread went about as well as I expected.... horribly.

RaddlemanNumber7

Funniest troll post I've seen in a while.

Leogon

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what they should do is allow us to turn the stuff we don't want into gems.

Recremen

Sorry honey, sexism is over. Also it would probably make more sense to just not have to gamble for cosmetic items to begin with, I feel like that's the real problem here.

Reverb

coop500 wrote: »

This thread went about as well as I expected.... horribly.

I think it's gone rather well, much better than I expected when I saw it. OP proposed stacking crate RNG and/or gem extraction in his favor based on gender, perhaps sincerely, perhaps trolling. The responses have mostly been rational and moderate, nothing so ugly as to require Zeni intervention. I'm impressed.

elijafire

Reverb wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

This thread went about as well as I expected.... horribly.

I think it's gone rather well, much better than I expected when I saw it. OP proposed stacking crate RNG and/or gem extraction in his favor based on gender, perhaps sincerely, perhaps trolling. The responses have mostly been rational and moderate, nothing so ugly as to require Zeni intervention. I'm impressed.

Nothing to do with stacking and everything to do with common human decency.

Izaki

elijafire wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Those of us Males who do not want some of the offerings you force us to get in the crown crates. Including but not limited to Dresses, Lipstick and some hair styles.

Please make it so that Gender specific items are an optional check box or are redeemable for crowns.

Thank You,

Eli

There's no such thing as a gender specific item. Lipstick can go on any character you want it to. Even for those beholden to societal gender norms, some will be opening crates on a toon of one gender, and use the items on another. There should be no restrictions, random is random.

Like all other crate items,if you don't want to use something, don't.

Edit to add: I stand corrected, eyelashes are gender specific. They shouldn't be, but they are.

Fanciful thought but Lipstick was specifically made for and worn by women to attract men, it has nothing to do with "societal gender norms" whatever that means.

I want an option to not be insulted by giving me " a male " and my male toons something meant for women. I'm not asking they take away anything from you so please stop being so bigoted and offensive.

That person was not being offensive at all in his/her post.

elijafire

Peebuzzle wrote: »

I wish we could just turn collectibles we don't want into gems - At least 5 gems even if it's an ugly face tattoo worth 40 gems... that's the amount you get for duplicates anyway so it wouldn't harm the greedy crate economy too much.

That was in my original post notice no edits, another fact this lynch mob conveniently neglected to note.

mikecrci wrote: »

Can you please not consider crown crates at all?

Thanks.

I loled.

LadyAstrum wrote: »

Wintergreen wrote: »

To me, the "ick" factor appeared when the OP said he was "insulted' by receiving "something meant for women." Insulted.

I remember feeling insulted when my father bought me a tracksuit meant for boys, just because he'd wanted a boy and rather than a girl. Mainly because I'd received something that didn't match my "identity", and that, I suspect is how OP feels. He's receiving something he doesn't identify with. That's not a crime, unless we're truly now in thought-feeling crime territory.

You get me.

Nerouyn wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

There's no such thing as a gender specific item. Lipstick can go on any character you want it to. Even for those beholden to societal gender norms, some will be opening crates on a toon of one gender, and use the items on another.

It's rude of you to attribute this to a personal failing on the part of the OP.

I have a roster of male characters. Only. Not a single female one. Dresses, lipstick etc. have absolutely no value to me and there's more than a few of them. I don't pay for crates but I got one of those fancy dresses from a freebie. It's completely wasted on me.

It being a freebie I can't complain but if I were paying for them I might feel otherwise. Yes crates are necessarily often going to give stuff you might not love, but items like these are a kick in the teeth - because you won the rng and got to dip into the good loot table, but gendered items like these are things which many players will definitely never use.

Just in case you're thinking about insulting me too, I'm gay. But I'm not into wearing dresses. I'm not bothered in the slightest by other guys wearing them. I enjoy watching RuPaul's Drag Race. It's hilarious and good natured. But wearing dresses is not for me and anyone who wants to try to make me feel bad about that is a nasty piece of work.

You sir, are an officer and a gentleman.

Ankael07 wrote: »

You people are so eager to lecture others on ''gender roles'' you forgot to read what OP said;

Optional checkbox or redeemable for crowns

I think they are trying to impress each other with their virtuous tolerance of everyone except what they perceive as "Judeao Christian values" whatever that is lol.

Izaki wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Those of us Males who do not want some of the offerings you force us to get in the crown crates. Including but not limited to Dresses, Lipstick and some hair styles.

Please make it so that Gender specific items are an optional check box or are redeemable for crowns.

Thank You,

Eli

There's no such thing as a gender specific item. Lipstick can go on any character you want it to. Even for those beholden to societal gender norms, some will be opening crates on a toon of one gender, and use the items on another. There should be no restrictions, random is random.

Like all other crate items,if you don't want to use something, don't.

Edit to add: I stand corrected, eyelashes are gender specific. They shouldn't be, but they are.

Fanciful thought but Lipstick was specifically made for and worn by women to attract men, it has nothing to do with "societal gender norms" whatever that means.

I want an option to not be insulted by giving me " a male " and my male toons something meant for women. I'm not asking they take away anything from you so please stop being so bigoted and offensive.

That person was not being offensive at all in his/her post.

Oooh so you now determine what offends me and others, I bow before your limitless knowledge and bravery to state such bold truths.

Orticia

If someone gets to opt out of certain items because they are male (or female, Argonian, or vegetarian, religiously adverse to tattoos, whatever). I should be able to opt out of the same items too. In short, if there is an opt out system for certain items for whatever reason, everyone should be able to opt out. So everyone has the same chance at items and avoid items they don't want.

VaranisArano

Orticia wrote: »

If someone gets to opt out of certain items because they are male (or female, Argonian, or vegetarian, religiously adverse to tattoos, whatever). I should be able to opt out of the same items too. In short, if there is an opt out system for certain items for whatever reason, everyone should be able to opt out. So everyone has the same chance at items and avoid items they don't want.

Agreed!

But since I'll be opting out of everything except for the costumes and Apex mounts, we see why ZOS will never ever implement such a thing.

Moreover even if they did implement an opt-out system, it would still be inferior to just putting the items in the Crown Sotre for sale.

elijafire

Orticia wrote: »

If someone gets to opt out of certain items because they are male (or female, Argonian, or vegetarian, religiously adverse to tattoos, whatever). I should be able to opt out of the same items too. In short, if there is an opt out system for certain items for whatever reason, everyone should be able to opt out. So everyone has the same chance at items and avoid items they don't want.

So why do you hyper-focus on one of my suggestions while totally ignoring the other. Do you have anything valuable to add to the conversation or are you just trying to be argumentative.

Whatever makes your boat float but it's the exact same end result, maybe even better because you actually get Crowns instead of a costume you don't like.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Orticia wrote: »

If someone gets to opt out of certain items because they are male (or female, Argonian, or vegetarian, religiously adverse to tattoos, whatever). I should be able to opt out of the same items too. In short, if there is an opt out system for certain items for whatever reason, everyone should be able to opt out. So everyone has the same chance at items and avoid items they don't want.

Agreed!

But since I'll be opting out of everything except for the costumes and Apex mounts, we see why ZOS will never ever implement such a thing.

Moreover even if they did implement an opt-out system, it would still be inferior to just putting the items in the Crown Sotre for sale.

Amazing how you can predict what ZoS will and will not do. Are you precog brah?

Well, another idea I have is to let all Crown Store items be traded for equal value Crown store items that another person owns. Kinda like trading cards but the system decides what is a fair trade. That way I could trade my lady friends their lipsticks and they can trade me their beards. Win Win.

But I'm pretty precog myself and I foresee more hyper-focusing on irrelevant arguments, bigotry and sexism from you guys instead of actually trying to make the game better for everyone.

gepe87

My male characters use lipstick on events! With braids and dress!

elijafire

Grats, I like to fart in the tub, what's the point.

Cadbury

This topic is going places! And I like it.

I'd personally love to sell or trade off old collectables I no longer want.
A pipe dream, I know.

PrayingSeraph

Eh we all get things we dont like in crates. This won't be changed. That being said, I too have no use of lipstick as I only create male characters and lipstick looks horrid on males. Though I suppose it'd be amusing dressing up my hairy orc in a dress with lipstick and bright eye shadow in Cyrodiil while killing people. Then I can say my looks could kill

VaranisArano

elijafire wrote: »

Amazing how you can predict what ZoS will and will not do. Are you precog brah?

Well, another idea I have is to let all Crown Store items be traded for equal value Crown store items that another person owns. Kinda like trading cards but the system decides what is a fair trade. That way I could trade my lady friends their lipsticks and they can trade me their beards. Win Win.

But I'm pretty precog myself and I foresee more hyper-focusing on irrelevant arguments, bigotry and sexism from you guys instead of actually trying to make the game better for everyone.

It doesn't take precognition to know how the Crown Crate system works or how gambling in general works. Both of them work by having a large pool of low value rewards with only a few rare "jackpot" rewards to entice people to gamble in the first place.

You can beg ZOS to give you an opt-out system for certain rewards - that's not how gambling or Crown Crates work. Its ineffective and so they won't do it without undermining the whole money-making system of gambling on Crown Crates. That's true of whether the opt-out is based on gender, a hatred of non-combat pets, ugly costumes, or useless consumables, whatever.
You can beg ZOS to let you trade Crown Crate items, I've got a few I would gladly gift someone myself - again, that's undermining Crown Crates by making it possible for people to get, trade, or buy Crown Crate items without actually buying the crates themselves aka sending more money to ZOS. ZOS' apparent mantra - if you want it, you have to buy it yourself. (There is an inconsistently applied "Gifting System" I'm not sure how well that applies to this.)
You can beg ZOS to take cosmetics out of the Crown Crates entirely - past experience + datamined future crates says they won't.
You can beg ZOS for whatever you want - they'll only do it if it makes economic sense for ZOS and its pretty obvious that customer satisfaction ranks below Crown Crate profit on their priorities.

My preferred solution is to keep pointing out to ZOS that they'd make far more money off of me by putting everything in the Crown Store where we could ALL buy what we want and ignore the things we don't want with no gambling...except that ZOS doesn't do that so they've probably got the numbers somewhere saying they make more money off of the playerbase in general from the Crown Crates gambling system, darn it!

Ultimately, ZOS doesn't care that you don't want lipstick and I have no interest in a Bal Foyen Nix-Hound. Both are the sort of low-value reward that helps dilute the reward pool in this form of gambling. Its like using a lottery ticket and winning $1, $5, or $25. You don't get to "opt-out" of lottery odds. That's not how gambling, even Crown Crate gambling, works.

newtinmpls

Nerouyn wrote: »

It being a freebie I can't complain but if I were paying for them I might feel otherwise.

Free. So I don't worry too much.

For people who pay, I think there should be a known breakdown of what you might get - then it's on the buyer. Take the risk and part of the risk is you get something you don't like.

Ender1310

Everything we do and think are constructs. Ultimately we are all lobbying to make the world/game the way we want it. Words like should have no place in this discussion. Op has right to make his opinion and lobby like the rest of society. Shame to all of you that shame him for feeling this way. You are doing the same thing that was done to you for your more progressive thinking. Nothing should be a way. thats all philosophy and civilization talking.

JKorr

Items in the crown crates aside from the apex/radiant rewards and possibly returning older items are there for cya/filler material. The only items you are guaranteed to receive in return for buying a crown crate are the consumables; food, potions, scrolls that allegedly have a higher value en mass than what you paid for the crown crate. During the original trial on the pts people participating in the test pointed out many times that getting the food/potions/scrolls was totally pointless because the player crafters could make better stuff. No one would be buying the crown crates for a bunch of consumables that they wouldn't buy outright from the store. The consumables did NOT count as duplicates. I don't believe you could even get rid of them by doing the DESTROY routine. The really small chance of getting an apex reward plus hundreds of potions and food you didn't want in the first place made the crown crates rather unattractive. An official community manager post said they were watching the feedback, and it would be taken into account for changes before the crates went live.

The solution they came up with was the trade a card's worth of consumables back for 1/3 the gems when the crates when live. There was never a hint of the possibility of trading back non-consumables like costumes, hats, tattoos, or pets that you didn't want. The whole point of the exercise is to get people to buy more crates. When they saw posts from people who said "I bought X number of crates, and didn't get the apex reward I wanted. But I got some duplicate outfits, traded in all the consumables, and used the gems to buy the apex reward I wanted. So now I don't have to touch the crates again until they put out something else I really want." I think the people who had the job of monetizing everything weren't happy. And lo, the next addition to the crown crates were the radiant apex rewards that can not be bought with gems. Meaning people who wanted one of the really really rare radiant rewards had to keep buying crated to try to get one. See the multiple threads from the people who spent literally a thousand dollars or more on crates if you're wondering whether the idea worked.

I think its safe to say they will never allow people to trade back costumes, face paint, tattoos, pets, costumes or other non-consumables because people getting enough gems to buy the crate stuff they want means they stop buying more crates to keep trying to get what they want. I doubt they'll let people gift crown crate items either, for the same reason. If I can gift those hypothetical argonian jawblades/horns to someone else who actually wants them, that's one less crown crate they'll sell.