What do you consider a good healer?

boombazookajd

Also, why do DW templars queue as healers, only to lay down one lazy AoE heal and spend the rest of their time jabbing away with that stupid bolt?

It's really annoying when you get teamed up with really high level players in a normal dungeon. Ok, I get it I can't pump out the DPS like you and you want to do the dungeon in 45 seconds for your daily reward, but it really ruins the game for the rest of us when we get left to the trash by our lonesome only to die and run the dungeon as a ghost.

Sometimes you get a cool carry, someone who comes in and Leroy's the whole thing and that can be cool because they deal with all the trash too, they don't just run to the boss. I know this is or close to a BWMG session but.... this is a genuine sore spot in the game.

So, to understand the game better rather than whine about it, when queuing players does ZoS have a formulation that tries to keep like leveled players together and sometimes there is just an odd man out like myself? I can deal with being the odd man out, someone has to do it, but if the queue just smashes people together it's time for ZoS to change that to where high level players who don't want to spend the time in a vet dungeon are funneled into their own queue to avoid ruining the game for the rest of us.

FakeFox

I don't go into random dungeons as a "good healer" even though I could as it is mostly ineffective. The chances are rather high that you get DDs that don't do any damage, so you want to do the damage yourself and for easier contend throwing down ritual and having BOL somewhere on your backbar is more then enough.

Magdalina

A good healer
1)doesn't die(easily, at least)
2)heals(the obvious)
3)buffs/helps with resource management
4)probably uses support sets for even more buffing
...but the most interesting part is that a good healer often goes to waste in pugs. Current healing meta is geared towards providing as many buffs as possible, be it from sets, skills, passives, whatever, but that assumes a team capable of taking advantage of that. It's pretty pointless to buff 7k group dps up to 8.5k when you can do at least 15k+ on your own just spamming jabs or whatever, as well as keep providing them with potentially useful synergies they never use and buffs they do their best to avoid(*cough* Combat Prayer *cough*).

However, imo it's common courtesy to at least do some healing for your group if you queue as a healer. Fake queueing as a healer with 0 heals just for fast completion is not a very nice thing to do to new players you may run into, at least have decency to slot BoL and use it occasionally or something, it's not that hard.

And the whole idea of One Tam was that low levels can now play with high levels...perhaps not exactly on equal terms, but they CAN, at least; so the groupfinder is putting up together whoever it can find, regardless of level. Well aside from dungeons level restriction, at level 10 you can only be put into 3 first tier dungeons(Spindle, Fungal and Banished), at level 17 or so next 3 get unlocked etc.

I'd recommend joining a guild to be able to run dungeons with people of similar level/playstyle/mindset at the speed you all agree upon.

Jpk0012

Hmm, if a healer is tossing out AOE/Heal over times and that is not enough you may need to look at your current style of play. Healers aren't babysitters who save people from their stupid actions. I have seen a lot of really bizarre things that defies logic. Don't be that guy.

But a good healer puts our decent dps, tosses out a heal over time, and will pay attention during boss fights. I've been told they should use elemental blockade and magickasteal - so that is what I do.

If there is a dps tank that is just murdering stuff I will make sure he stays alive. I don't mind that, at all. But usually that is not the case.

SirAndy

boombazookajd wrote: »

What do you consider a good healer?

In a pug? Anyone who keeps the group alive ...

Horowonnoe

I have done dungeons both ways - Qing on my stamplar with vigor and ritual and being fine. And going on my "good" healer and buffing and orbing and warhorning. But at the end of the day, if the group dps is 8k, that 10% my warhorn gives, does it even matter? the 8% from cbp?

Some of us don't want to spend the whole day in normal CoA1. So, we swap all skills for dps skills, cast down ritual - and carry on.

Banana

Not having to constantly heal myself

Ragnarock41

at the end of the vDSA If I still have soul gems, that means the healer did its job carrying a lazy DD like me.

Edit: to be serious I like it when the healer can also dish out some nice dps as it really helps with time.
I only pve for gear, so the faster that boss melts, the better. and If I die a horrible death %80 of the time Its my own fault, but hey, nobody is perfect. which is why we need a healer in the first place.

boombazookajd

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I have done dungeons both ways - Qing on my stamplar with vigor and ritual and being fine. And going on my "good" healer and buffing and orbing and warhorning. But at the end of the day, if the group dps is 8k, that 10% my warhorn gives, does it even matter? the 8% from cbp?

Some of us don't want to spend the whole day in normal CoA1. So, we swap all skills for dps skills, cast down ritual - and carry on.

And this seems to be the issue. The expectation that you're going into a pug and you're going to get solid dps players. So you cast down ritual to no benefit to the group other than to say "I threw down a heal" go to dps and then the dps players die.

Then they say, where was the healer? Of course, blame the DPS is the typical fall back.

If you are in a pug, on nCOA1, why are you expecting to go through it so quickly that you grow so impatient? If you want to blow through it, grab a few friends and blow through it. OR understand you're probably going to draw either newbies or uneducated players who aren't as optimal as you're accustomed to and heal them while they do their best. I'd love to say the same to DPS players and tanks but you literally can't do anything if you are always dying. Worse case scenario, you get REALLY good at laying down your heals.

That seems to me to be a big issue with players, wanting to just blow through content with no regard to the actual gameplay.

And to you sir: I've experienced it a few more times today, a DPS in the healer slot who just tosses a heal down the first place contact is made, then completely ignores the rest of the group. Coupled with DPS players slotting as tanks (which is doable on normal dungeons, WITH A HEALER).

See, you can be a fake tank. You CANNOT be a fake healer.

There's only one way for this to be fixed, ZoS limits certain classes to certain roles, or checks roles with slotted abilities. Obviously they won't do that so the only option is for players to police players.

[snip]

[edited for baiting/insult]

Horowonnoe

boombazookajd wrote: »

And to you sir: I've experienced it a few more times today, a DPS in the healer slot who just tosses a heal down the first place contact is made, then completely ignores the rest of the group. Coupled with DPS players slotting as tanks (which is doable on normal dungeons, WITH A HEALER).

See, you can be a fake tank. You CANNOT be a fake healer.

There's only one way for this to be fixed, ZoS limits certain classes to certain roles, or checks roles with slotted abilities. Obviously they won't do that so the only option is for players to police players.

Ahem im not a sir.
Shot a shield friend. Why are you dying in nCoA1?

[minor edit for quote]

boombazookajd

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Hmm, if a healer is tossing out AOE/Heal over times and that is not enough you may need to look at your current style of play. Healers aren't babysitters who save people from their stupid actions. I have seen a lot of really bizarre things that defies logic. Don't be that guy.

But a good healer puts our decent dps, tosses out a heal over time, and will pay attention during boss fights. I've been told they should use elemental blockade and magickasteal - so that is what I do.

If there is a dps tank that is just murdering stuff I will make sure he stays alive. I don't mind that, at all. But usually that is not the case.

Oh no, trust me, i'm relatively squishy. I have LOTS of healing pots and still have GDB slotted just to take care of myself but there are many instances where I still need help. I know to stay out of the red but that isn't always possible. No, I'm not being "that guy" who stands in the red, stands still, and spams flurry. I also have to sacrifice full blown dps for healing sustains enchantments and healing morphs rather than outright damage. I tried my build as a full on DD, but I couldn't survive without the HEALER HEALING.

I'm not blaming all healers, but if you're a little peeved at this post, you're probably the person I'm referring to and you know it. So, if the shoe fits, wear that sucker.

boombazookajd

Horowonnoe wrote: »

[
Ahem im not a sir.
Shot a shield friend. Why are you dying in nCoA1?

I'm not dying in CoA1, you brought up CoA1. I die in proper dungeons, like Fungal Grotto

I actually have a rough time in Blessed Crucible when that dang lady starts shooting lava everywhere. Look, I'm not crapping on all healers, and honestly most I come across are good, and I go out of my way to thank the good ones. I don't over look good tanks and good healers.

squinceybones

boombazookajd wrote: »

And this seems to be the issue. The expectation that you're going into a pug and you're going to get solid dps players. So you cast down ritual to no benefit to the group other than to say "I threw down a heal" go to dps and then the dps players die.

Then they say, where was the healer? Of course, blame the DPS is the typical fall back.

If you are in a pug, on nCOA1, why are you expecting to go through it so quickly that you grow so impatient? If you want to blow through it, grab a few friends and blow through it. OR understand you're probably going to draw either newbies or uneducated players who aren't as optimal as you're accustomed to and heal them while they do their best. I'd love to say the same to DPS players and tanks but you literally can't do anything if you are always dying. Worse case scenario, you get REALLY good at laying down your heals.

That seems to me to be a big issue with players, wanting to just blow through content with no regard to the actual gameplay.

And to you sir: I've experienced it a few more times today, a DPS in the healer slot who just tosses a heal down the first place contact is made, then completely ignores the rest of the group. Coupled with DPS players slotting as tanks (which is doable on normal dungeons, WITH A HEALER).

See, you can be a fake tank. You CANNOT be a fake healer.

There's only one way for this to be fixed, ZoS limits certain classes to certain roles, or checks roles with slotted abilities. Obviously they won't do that so the only option is for players to police players.

What would you have the healer do? There is nothing to heal, so... just stand still? Maybe go get a drink? What’s the problem with being able to do one job well enough that you can do another?

[minor edit for quote]

boombazookajd

squinceybones wrote: »

boombazookajd wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I have done dungeons both ways - Qing on my stamplar with vigor and ritual and being fine. And going on my "good" healer and buffing and orbing and warhorning. But at the end of the day, if the group dps is 8k, that 10% my warhorn gives, does it even matter? the 8% from cbp?

Some of us don't want to spend the whole day in normal CoA1. So, we swap all skills for dps skills, cast down ritual - and carry on.

And this seems to be the issue. The expectation that you're going into a pug and you're going to get solid dps players. So you cast down ritual to no benefit to the group other than to say "I threw down a heal" go to dps and then the dps players die.

Then they say, where was the healer? Of course, blame the DPS is the typical fall back.

If you are in a pug, on nCOA1, why are you expecting to go through it so quickly that you grow so impatient? If you want to blow through it, grab a few friends and blow through it. OR understand you're probably going to draw either newbies or uneducated players who aren't as optimal as you're accustomed to and heal them while they do their best. I'd love to say the same to DPS players and tanks but you literally can't do anything if you are always dying. Worse case scenario, you get REALLY good at laying down your heals.

That seems to me to be a big issue with players, wanting to just blow through content with no regard to the actual gameplay.

And to you sir, when I encounter folks like you, I just back out. Hopefully, I make it just that much more difficult for you. I've experienced it a few more times today, a DPS in the healer slot who just tosses a heal down the first place contact is made, then completely ignores the rest of the group. Coupled with DPS players slotting as tanks (which is doable on normal dungeons, WITH A HEALER).

See, you can be a fake tank. You CANNOT be a fake healer.

There's only one way for this to be fixed, ZoS limits certain classes to certain roles, or checks roles with slotted abilities. Obviously they won't do that so the only option is for players to police players.

So to those of you who aren't taking the proper roles to the detriment of the group, for your selfish needs be it time or your boredom of the content:

Y O U S U C K.

What would you have the healer do? There is nothing to heal, so... just stand still? Maybe go get a drink? What’s the problem with being able to do one job well enough that you can do another?

I thought I was clear. I have no issue with a healer helping with DPS, and it's not only helpful but also likely necessary.

What I want a healer to do is understand their primary role is healing. So don't just throw down ONE AoE Heal and then completely disregard healing after said AoE runs out. So if you can't multitask (heal and dps) then just do your PRIMARY job. That way the dps's don't die because we all know there is a shortage of proper tanks.

It's a domino effect. One DPS goes, then another, then the third and then its just the healer all by their lonesome.

All I am saying, simply, is I've come across too many healers who don't heal. That's all.

squinceybones

More often than not one aoe heal is enough, you can heal a lot of vet content with ritual and orbs. Is that a problem, do you want more?

Horowonnoe

Op i always refresh the ritual. All my guilds know me as a bis stam healer nightblade.

Horowonnoe

I am in a trials guild "stamina healers matter" would you like to join?

squinceybones

@boombazookajd it sounds like you simply have an issue with bad players then?

Nestor

If I queue as a healer that is what I do. I only DPS the boss during execute phase. Now if I get put into an easy normal (fungal for instance) I will ask if they need heals if everyone is at or over Cap. But otherwise your going to be kept alive while you slowly whittle down the boss.

boombazookajd

squinceybones wrote: »

@boombazookajd it sounds like you simply have an issue with bad players then?

Who doesn't?

Look this is getting off track, especially becoming all about me or who is at fault, the typical forum post; which isn't what this is about.

I was simply inquiring as to what the broader community considered a good healer in the attempt to find out if my standards were out of line with those of the greater community.

I don't need a babysitter, I don't have an overwhelming issue with bad healers. This post spawned from a rough night with several runs plagued by bad, that is inattentive or down right wrongfully slotted, healers.

I know what I need to succeed, so I bring my own pots and slot my own heals but it's also possible to get overwhelmed. I die, and I have a built in understanding of when it is my fault. I know it and often apologize to the group for being dumb, and I will also repaying them for the spent soul gems they use, unless it's one or two.

But the reason I started this thread was a run of several dungeons where the healer either didn't do anything, which was two of the three dungeons, and the third (one I just backed out of) was a DW healer who popped down an AoE heal that became obsolete the minute the boss moved (because they do that, especially with no tank- a fact that I personally can live with).

So, I wanted to see what the community as a whole considered a good healer. Also to understand some of the issues healers face, namely poor dps output leading to a lengthy run.

This isn't about me, or my play style, and I'm not accusing healers as a whole or stating that this is an overwhelming issue in the game.

Tasear

Templar is most balanced class so they can usually switch between tank, healer, and dps. On other hand if I feel like I doing most of healing...say as tank then it's vote kick for you.

Edit

Basic Healer

People hardly die



Good healer

Heals over time
Combat prayer
Burst heal



Great healer

Heals over time
Combat prayer
Burst heal


Concussion
Off balance
Combat prayer
Class buffs

Top tier
High buff uptimes and can't die even if they want

Heals over time
Combat prayer
Burst heals


Concussion
Off balance
Combat prayer
Class buffs
Minor mangle
Minor vitality
Minor life steal
Minor magical steal
Minor protection
Orbs or shards

boombazookajd

Tasear wrote: »

Templar is most balanced class so they can usually switch between tank, healer, and dps. On other hand if I feel like I doing most of healing...say as tank then it's vote kick for you.

dude if you can heal and tank, then hell yea man rock on.

boombazookajd

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I am in a trials guild "stamina healers matter" would you like to join?

@Horowonnoe I'm good on guilds at the moment. But if you find yourself needing a dps, hmu in game.

Edit: I'm XB/NA

AcadianPaladin

My elf is focused on being a healer (of the templar variety). For dungeon grouping, her focus is on normal content (not vet). Here are her priorities in order:

1. Stay alive. Dead healer can't help anyone. If she gets cornered/swarmed, she resorts to Channel Focus for defense & sustain, then she opens up a can of Puncturing Sweeps to keep herself alive while killing her foes.
2. Heal others (duh). For this she tries to keep good uptime on Extended Ritual, Mutagen and Combat Prayer. She then target/area touches up with Healing Springs. Breath of Life is for omg moments only.
3. Buff others. Combat Prayer to help their damage, defense and healing.
4. Assist others with resources. Keep EleDrain on the boss and Luminous Shards on those up close with the boss.
5. Debuff boss and foes. EleDrain (lower magic defense) and Blockade of Storms (off balance).
6. As far as dps goes, the incidental damage from shards and blockade is moderate and relatively constant. She also double slots the Mages Guild ultimate for the passives but usually can get it onto the boss twice during a fight for some decent damage.

Here's what it boils down to for her. If the team can keep the boss out of her face, her focus is pure heals/support while trying to stay out of red and keep her team in the path range of her Combat Prayer and Extended Ritual. If the team cannot keep the boss out of her face (despite her trying to maneuver/lead the boss back to the tank), she will turtle up with Channel Focus and Sweep the boss to death since that is the only way she can stay alive with a boss in her face.

boombazookajd

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My elf is focused on being a healer (of the templar variety). For dungeon grouping, her focus is on normal content (not vet). Here are her priorities in order:

1. Stay alive. Dead healer can't help anyone. If she gets cornered/swarmed, she resorts to Channel Focus for defense & sustain, then she opens up a can of Puncturing Sweeps to keep herself alive while killing her foes.
2. Heal others (duh). For this she tries to keep good uptime on Extended Ritual, Mutagen and Combat Prayer. She then target/area touches up with Healing Springs. Breath of Life is for omg moments only.
3. Buff others. Combat Prayer to help their damage, defense and healing.
4. Assist others with resources. Keep EleDrain on the boss and Luminous Shards on those up close with the boss.
5. Debuff boss and foes. EleDrain (lower magic defense) and Blockade of Storms (off balance).
6. As far as dps goes, the incidental damage from shards and blockade is moderate and relatively constant. She also double slots the Mages Guild ultimate for the passives but usually can get it onto the boss twice during a fight for some decent damage.

Here's what it boils down to for her. If the team can keep the boss out of her face, her focus is pure heals/support while trying to stay out of red and keep her team in the path range of her Combat Prayer and Extended Ritual. If the team cannot keep the boss out of her face (despite her trying to maneuver/lead the boss back to the tank), she will turtle up with Channel Focus and Sweep the boss to death since that is the only way she can stay alive with a boss in her face.

Sounds like you've got it down pat! If I were on PC, I'd be clamoring to run with you and I hope I'd be a good DPS for you!

Horowonnoe

boombazookajd wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I am in a trials guild "stamina healers matter" would you like to join?

@Horowonnoe I'm good on guilds at the moment. But if you find yourself needing a dps, hmu in game.

Edit: I'm XB/NA

Im pc NA friend

Tasear

boombazookajd wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

@boombazookajd it sounds like you simply have an issue with bad players then?

Who doesn't?

Look this is getting off track, especially becoming all about me or who is at fault, the typical forum post; which isn't what this is about.

I was simply inquiring as to what the broader community considered a good healer in the attempt to find out if my standards were out of line with those of the greater community.

I don't need a babysitter, I don't have an overwhelming issue with bad healers. This post spawned from a rough night with several runs plagued by bad, that is inattentive or down right wrongfully slotted, healers.

I know what I need to succeed, so I bring my own pots and slot my own heals but it's also possible to get overwhelmed. I die, and I have a built in understanding of when it is my fault. I know it and often apologize to the group for being dumb, and I will also repaying them for the spent soul gems they use, unless it's one or two.

But the reason I started this thread was a run of several dungeons where the healer either didn't do anything, which was two of the three dungeons, and the third (one I just backed out of) was a DW healer who popped down an AoE heal that became obsolete the minute the boss moved (because they do that, especially with no tank- a fact that I personally can live with).

So, I wanted to see what the community as a whole considered a good healer. Also to understand some of the issues healers face, namely poor dps output leading to a lengthy run.

This isn't about me, or my play style, and I'm not accusing healers as a whole or stating that this is an overwhelming issue in the game.

The other answer is misguided perception.. because I am Templar I am healer or breath of life all I need. You don't see that with other healing classes.

mocap

All that Combat Prayer and War Horn are BS for trash DPS'ers. That 8% damage bonus for another bow light attack spammer just pathetic +1k DPS. Needless to say your random group must be well positioned to get that bonus and it's nearly impossible with PUGs. So I'd rather do DPS my self and as a healer i can 18K single target while healing others if necessary.

I hate healers who just cast useless Combat Prayer and heavy Resto attacks. Hate so much... It's an empty wagon attached to freight train.

Maura_Neysa

It depends on your definition of a good healer.
A Healer that DPS can be good in some 4 man content, even up to vDSA. That same healer will be utter trash with that set up if they try and run a trial like that.

My opinion is a Trials level healer is a good heale, you won't find me healing normals, its boring as hell, even in the Millions Story dungeon event, I ran my healer and tank on vets because even those can be boring.

If you're not someone who's into Trails or Pvp healing though then having that much support is kinda overkill.

James-Wayne

In a normal dungeon you dont need dedicated healer/tank roles. You need DPS which sometimes players dont have and you need to know the boss mechanics unless its replaced by a burn mechanic. I always queue as two roles because usually the dps is very low and I have 12 characters to do dailies on but I always buff the group so everyone can have a great time!

Arkray

On easy stuff I usually ran with 5/5 spell power cure set and 5/5 dps set, I kept elemental drain and lightning blockade up and cast down ritual and sometimes regeneration, if more hots were needed, to keep people buffed with the spellpower cure buff, and then I just dpsed stuff, on trash mobs I tried to grab the atention of all the mobs so they didn't damage the rest of the party as jabs kept my health topped while I dpsed them away. Destro ultimate or War Horn depending on the party dps.

I returned to the game recently and the first days I was running all the dungeons in a full support build, because that was what I was wearing when I left the game and my dps sets were spread among my dps alts. I felt kinda useless the majority of times because I didn't have to heal much, my dps was trash and the majority of people weren't even grabbing the spears and the orbs, not like they needed them either, stuff dies so fast that people don't need much resources. So I just crafted another dps set and went back to my old habits.