Stam Sorc

Stealthk80

Hi,
I recently switched to Stam Sorc from mag and haven't looked back since. I'm just looking for a few questions to be answered and some will be really basic to you

1) Guides say to use poison on bow, is that the enchant or Drain Health IX?

2)I'm currently running 2x Stormfist, 5 x Hundings (weapons) and 5x spirggins, all divines. I have Nirn + poison on mh, precise + WD on oh and nirn + posion on bow right now. I read somewhere that I would be better with nirn axe + wd on main hand and precise + poison on oh? how true is this?

3) Current stats are around 38.5k stam (with food), 3650 WD (using warrior boon) , 60% crit, around 7200 arm pen, and 1020 ish stam regen (i have cloth stormfist right now, medium are avoiding me!!) - where should I look to improve this? I have full legendary right now barring the cloth stormfist

4) Current bars -

FB - Rending, Deadly cloak/Re-arming trap, Shrouded Blades, Hurricane, Bound Arm - Flaw Dawn
BB - Posion Injection, Endless Arrow, Caltrops, Crit Surge, B.A. - Ballista

Is this all optimal? I should mention I'm currentl CP 403

I sit between 17 and 24k DPS on bosses (dependant on mechanics) how can I improve here?

Thanks

jakeedmundson

I put a disease enchant on my bow just to have something different from my front bar enchants while doing dungeons and easier content (poison and weapon damage on dual wield)
- in trials i run the drain health poison on my bow over the enchant.

You're pretty much playing a meta type set up...
the only thing you can improve on is your rotation. i know it sounds ridiculous but an efficient rotation will make the difference between 25k and 35k.
With your exact same setup, i hit 34k on the test dummy. Just went through vAA last night with him as well. It went smooth.

Rotation > gear choice

Stealthk80

Also, what is the best CP allocation? I cant see why the guides say to skip master at arms?

Drakkdjinn

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

jakeedmundson

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

Stealthk80

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

Thanks, just what I was looking for. Ok so when I start farming gear for trials, what should I swap the Spriggans out for? Assuming my party has arm pen covered?

also, is there a reason guides don't use master at arms?

just got all crafts to 50 (well I had the actual crafts at 50 ages ago, took a while to get prov and alchemy up) so am farming for poisons and wep crit potions as we speak.

I am indeed a Khajit and have just acquired a nirn HR axe as I have read axe + dagger is better ST and d/d for aoe/solo for heals, so gonna give that a go.

Is automatons the kit i should be looking to swap out the spriggans for? ive deconstructed a ton of them =/

Also, unless ive mis read your rotation, i don't think its possible to have all those abilities? I find myself swapping between deadly cloak and rearming trap for trash/boss as I like the self heals from crit surge

thanks so far

jakeedmundson

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

Thanks, just what I was looking for. Ok so when I start farming gear for trials, what should I swap the Spriggans out for? Assuming my party has arm pen covered?

also, is there a reason guides don't use master at arms?

just got all crafts to 50 (well I had the actual crafts at 50 ages ago, took a while to get prov and alchemy up) so am farming for poisons and wep crit potions as we speak.

I am indeed a Khajit and have just acquired a nirn HR axe as I have read axe + dagger is better ST and d/d for aoe/solo for heals, so gonna give that a go.

Is automatons the kit i should be looking to swap out the spriggans for? ive deconstructed a ton of them =/

Also, unless ive mis read your rotation, i don't think its possible to have all those abilities? I find myself swapping between deadly cloak and rearming trap for trash/boss as I like the self heals from crit surge

thanks so far

- If your group has full penetration already.. which most will in trials but i would always check... run Vicious ophidian in place of spriggans/sunder/tfs.
- if no one else is wearing NMG, you could wear that.

- axe/dagger and dagger/dagger are both good enough. small differences in output. Bleed damage vs. more crit chance

- automaton is a set you COULD swap hundings for... but thats if you want to farm it.
- hundings, automaton, briar heart are all great sets to run.
- night mother, sunderflame, spriggans, twice fanged are all great penetration sets if you need it.
- obviously if someone else is wearing NMG..don't wear it because the bonus is only applied once.

- here is what my bars look like (just noticed our difference, you run bound armor on both bars and i do not)

FB - dual wield hundings >> rending slashes, shrouded daggers, deadly cloak, hurricane, vigor , flawless dawnbreaker
BB - maelstrom bow >> endless hail, poison inj, rearm trap, razor caltrops, crit surge, balista

- my gear
2 stormfist
5 hundings rage (3 body, 1 nirn dagger, 1 sharpened/infused/precise axe)
5 spriggan or VO if in a trial (2 body, 3 jewelry)

EDIT: master at arms question...
you don't need to put points in here because the points in the Ritual Tree benefit you more

Drakkdjinn

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Stealthk80

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Sorry again, but why is Ballista recommended over rend? From what I see we get a big heal and more damage?

Drakkdjinn

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Sorry again, but why is Ballista recommended over rend? From what I see we get a big heal and more damage?

Several reasons for ballista, among them:

DPS thru mechanics - set it and forget it.

Its ranged.

It's not as big of a buggy, misfiring mess as Rend.

Healing off an ultimate is not a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th tier concern for selection since ur role is to make damage as DPS.

Butt chief reason among them all: they aren't tied to the same weapon type so you shouldn't even be worrying bout them since they could never possibly fight for the same slot on the same bar AND on ur DW bar ur gonna want DB for its passive bonuses anyway. Rend is for other things.

Stealthk80

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

Butt chief reason among them all: they aren't tied to the same weapon type so you shouldn't even be worrying bout them since they could never possibly fight for the same slot on the same bar AND on ur DW bar ur gonna want DB for its passive bonuses anyway. Rend is for other things.

This - i completely overlooked the fact theyre weapon ultimates, doh

jakeedmundson

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Where is flurry/rapid strikes here?...or in any parse like this? This is from a recent post about the record high scoring PUG in HM vMOL... on a stam sorc. They don't use flurry to get those numbers. flurry was ONLY used because it buffed dots while using maelstrom weapons.

Stealthk80

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Where is flurry/rapid strikes here?...or in any parse like this? This is from a recent post about the record high scoring PUG in HM vMOL... on a stam sorc. They don't use flurry to get those numbers. flurry was ONLY used because it buffed dots while using maelstrom weapons.

Maybe I'm missing something (more questions, sorry!)

I have around 5.6k weapon damage fully buffed, fair enough, but that guy is rocking 3k more stam and 5% more crit than me?

Stealthk80

also, what is the better layout:

1) 5 Medium + 1/1

2) 7 Medium?

Thanks again

jakeedmundson

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Where is flurry/rapid strikes here?...or in any parse like this? This is from a recent post about the record high scoring PUG in HM vMOL... on a stam sorc. They don't use flurry to get those numbers. flurry was ONLY used because it buffed dots while using maelstrom weapons.

Maybe I'm missing something (more questions, sorry!)

I have around 5.6k weapon damage fully buffed, fair enough, but that guy is rocking 3k more stam and 5% more crit than me?

Don't pay attention to his stats... thats with full raid buffs active during the most difficult content in the game. These trials usually have the best of the best armor, skills, buffs, etc.

Also, I personally run 6 medium - 1 heavy monster helm or shoulder.
Many do run 7 medium though for the armor passive bonus which leaves them with lower stam/health. But you can adjust for the health with glyphs or attributes. Shoot for 17.5-18k health.

Stealthk80

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Where is flurry/rapid strikes here?...or in any parse like this? This is from a recent post about the record high scoring PUG in HM vMOL... on a stam sorc. They don't use flurry to get those numbers. flurry was ONLY used because it buffed dots while using maelstrom weapons.

Maybe I'm missing something (more questions, sorry!)

I have around 5.6k weapon damage fully buffed, fair enough, but that guy is rocking 3k more stam and 5% more crit than me?

Don't pay attention to his stats... thats with full raid buffs active during the most difficult content in the game. These trials usually have the best of the best armor, skills, buffs, etc.

Also, I personally run 6 medium - 1 heavy monster helm or shoulder.
Many do run 7 medium though for the armor passive bonus which leaves them with lower stam/health. But you can adjust for the health with glyphs or attributes. Shoot for 17.5-18k health.

Right now I have

Plate stormfist helm, light stormfist shoulders, 5x spriggans (including jewellery) and 5 x Hundrings (4 with bow)

I also have a medium stormfist helm and 2x medium Spellstrix (helm/shoulders) in my bag, these and the above are all legendary/yellow - (minus the rings) medium Stormfist are still deceiving me!

Been looking really to try and juggle which is best balance, the 5/1/1 gives more stats, but I'm still around 16.8k hp and 39k stam with the rabbit (stam/hp blue food recipe), but with this i loose around 4% crit but gain around 600 stam + ofc the 600 ish HP.

I've read that my hp should increase as I add points into warrior, I'm pretty certain it hasn't budged in the last 30 or so CP levels ive gained (now 433CP) Ive been thinking of swapping out the spriggans for something with more raw stats, like:

Automaton
Leviathan
Sunderflame

or even TBS which seems appealing to me, not sure on your feelings on this? in a few months ill be able to answer all this myself, i was a fairly decent heroic/myth (or whatever blizz are calling it now) raider in wow and did all my own theory etc and even wrote some guides, but its taking me some time to grip the differences and info isn't as readily available (or i just haven't found the better sources)

Which leads me to my next question (I'm sorry again haha)

In the guides i see for example, StamSorc Hotr or StamSorc Clockwork etc, now is this due to a recent change in patches, an increase in CP cap or gear available? As each guide differs slightly - common sense here i followed the newest guide as I assumed it would be due to patch/balancing - but wanna be sure

Thanks again for your time

LiquidPony

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

Not sure I follow the TFS logic here.

Why wouldn't players benefit from the full pen value of TFS in their normal rotation? It procs on damage done. Get a couple of DoTs rolling and it's fairly easy to keep up close to 100%. Same for "adjusting for boss mechanics." Off the top of my head I can't think of many fights where you're going to stop doing damage altogether for long enough to make a difference. If you just throw Hail/Caltrops down and swap bars you've likely procced it up to max pen already. On a stamsorc you're going to keep TFS up close to 100% just standing there doing nothing if you have Deadly Cloak and Hurricane on.

I'm looking at some old CMX parses from when TFS was meta and I see 100% uptime on the Triplets, 98% on the Arch-Custodian, and even 89% on the Assembly General which includes long stretches (after killing terminals) where the group is quite literally standing around doing nothing (i.e., the downtime doesn't matter because you're not doing damage anyway).

Anyway, for PvE, don't really see the point in spending time/money on Spriggan's in the first place. Sunderflame's debuff is just as strong as the Spriggan's pen buff, it has some other small advantages (crit bonus + very small damage proc), it benefits the whole group, it's actually viable in the end game, and it's super easy to get (chest farm).

jakeedmundson

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

In an optimized raid you won't be wearing a self-penetration set apart from NMG so long as ur the only stam with it. So yeah, you shouldn't be aiming for Spriggans at all, its a placeholder. Flurry is still on the bars of the highest parses for stam dps post morrowind, but please do share what you're smoking with the rest of us.

Where is flurry/rapid strikes here?...or in any parse like this? This is from a recent post about the record high scoring PUG in HM vMOL... on a stam sorc. They don't use flurry to get those numbers. flurry was ONLY used because it buffed dots while using maelstrom weapons.

Maybe I'm missing something (more questions, sorry!)

I have around 5.6k weapon damage fully buffed, fair enough, but that guy is rocking 3k more stam and 5% more crit than me?

Don't pay attention to his stats... thats with full raid buffs active during the most difficult content in the game. These trials usually have the best of the best armor, skills, buffs, etc.

Also, I personally run 6 medium - 1 heavy monster helm or shoulder.
Many do run 7 medium though for the armor passive bonus which leaves them with lower stam/health. But you can adjust for the health with glyphs or attributes. Shoot for 17.5-18k health.

Right now I have

Plate stormfist helm, light stormfist shoulders, 5x spriggans (including jewellery) and 5 x Hundrings (4 with bow)

I also have a medium stormfist helm and 2x medium Spellstrix (helm/shoulders) in my bag, these and the above are all legendary/yellow - (minus the rings) medium Stormfist are still deceiving me!

Been looking really to try and juggle which is best balance, the 5/1/1 gives more stats, but I'm still around 16.8k hp and 39k stam with the rabbit (stam/hp blue food recipe), but with this i loose around 4% crit but gain around 600 stam + ofc the 600 ish HP.

I've read that my hp should increase as I add points into warrior, I'm pretty certain it hasn't budged in the last 30 or so CP levels ive gained (now 433CP) Ive been thinking of swapping out the spriggans for something with more raw stats, like:

Automaton
Leviathan
Sunderflame

or even TBS which seems appealing to me, not sure on your feelings on this? in a few months ill be able to answer all this myself, i was a fairly decent heroic/myth (or whatever blizz are calling it now) raider in wow and did all my own theory etc and even wrote some guides, but its taking me some time to grip the differences and info isn't as readily available (or i just haven't found the better sources)

Which leads me to my next question (I'm sorry again haha)

In the guides i see for example, StamSorc Hotr or StamSorc Clockwork etc, now is this due to a recent change in patches, an increase in CP cap or gear available? As each guide differs slightly - common sense here i followed the newest guide as I assumed it would be due to patch/balancing - but wanna be sure

Thanks again for your time

I don't remember if cp actually adds anything to your stats... i would think no, but really can't say for sure.

As far as armor goes.. what you have is just fine. other gear will not change your solo dps much at all.
hundings/spriggan is perfect for dungeons and probably 10 times what you actually need for overland questing.

Automaton = hundings = briarheart = vicious ophidian in terms of overall dps output. They WILL be slightly different in trails but until you get to that expert playing rotation, it doesn't matter.

Spriggans = Twice fanged = sunderflame = night mothers gaze. Just like above, they will differ for you in trials and other difficult content when you get your rotations down solid. But for now...Just pick one for now, they're all the same for you in dungeons and overland.

not sure if anyone uses leviathan or TBS anymore though... i'm sure its viable in some builds but you just dont' see them much anymore.

The reality is... just combine one damage set with one penetration set. Add in a monster set of your choosing. Krag's, velidreth, stormfist, etc... they are all fun/good damage. When you get to optimized trials, then focus on using Nmg or sunderflame to buff the group. if they are already being used, stack 2 damage sets like automaton/hundings/VO/Briarheart

I have most of each of the sets so i can mix and match and make what i need when necessary. But that takes a lot of time

Also, don't be afraid to ask questions on the forums. 99% of the people on here will be more than happy to help someone else understand the deeper points of the game. Not saying that i understand it all... but i'll help with what i can.

kylewwefan

You need to go run trials. A lot of trials. There’s always groups forming in craglorn and undaunted areas. Easy to get into. You need some of that gear too.

What people use for trials, dungeons, PvP, and maelstrom and Dragonstar are different.

Just do normal. Pugging Vet Trials through zone chat doesn’t usually go well. Group finder Pugging Vet dungeons is also hit or miss. LFG in Cyrodil is one place that it does go well...sometimes.

Sadly, you also must face the beast. VMA. You’ll learn more about your class there than any dungeon or trial. Combat awareness and experience go further than a good target skeleton test.

jakeedmundson

LiquidPony wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

Not sure I follow the TFS logic here.

Why wouldn't players benefit from the full pen value of TFS in their normal rotation? It procs on damage done. Get a couple of DoTs rolling and it's fairly easy to keep up close to 100%. Same for "adjusting for boss mechanics." Off the top of my head I can't think of many fights where you're going to stop doing damage altogether for long enough to make a difference. If you just throw Hail/Caltrops down and swap bars you've likely procced it up to max pen already. On a stamsorc you're going to keep TFS up close to 100% just standing there doing nothing if you have Deadly Cloak and Hurricane on.

I'm looking at some old CMX parses from when TFS was meta and I see 100% uptime on the Triplets, 98% on the Arch-Custodian, and even 89% on the Assembly General which includes long stretches (after killing terminals) where the group is quite literally standing around doing nothing (i.e., the downtime doesn't matter because you're not doing damage anyway).

Anyway, for PvE, don't really see the point in spending time/money on Spriggan's in the first place. Sunderflame's debuff is just as strong as the Spriggan's pen buff, it has some other small advantages (crit bonus + very small damage proc), it benefits the whole group, it's actually viable in the end game, and it's super easy to get (chest farm).

You have to keep 5 attacks within 3 seconds at all times. Unless this has changed? Most players cannot consistently keep that rotation going. Thats why i praise spriggan so much for the flat bonus.
Also, dot tics don't count as each attack. endless hail counts as 1, poison inj counts as 1, caltrops count as 1, etc...so if you can weave attacks and keep a consistent rotation then this set will be slightly better than spriggans thorns. Even alcast has acknowledged this small difference on his site. Sunderflame even averages out to almost the same dps as TFS while providing a group buff.
If you can NOT keep that rotation, the stacks go away and make it less beneficial to you.

And i have no doubts that those people were using TFS in trials a while back OR that they could keep all the stacks rolling for the penetration value. Anyone that does vMOL is not your average player anymore.

And i absolutely agree about sunderflame... i have it as a "ready to go" set for stam characters. but for me, spriggan was easier to find/cheaper to buy when i got it a long time ago.

Stealthk80

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

jakeedmundson

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

Stealthk80

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Oreyn_Bearclaw

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

jakeedmundson

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

All good, just didnt want people scratching their heads looking for a bar spot. haha. Have you ever tried the lightweight trap setup? I was pleasantly surprised with the damage. It keeps the rotation circular (no spam skill) and allows room for surge. I have seen people break 60k ST with it on valarial.

Edit: Probably not as good with add heavy fights, as daggers is a lot of splash damage, but for people trying to keep it simple and safe, it's a strong option i think.

jakeedmundson

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

All good, just didnt want people scratching their heads looking for a bar spot. haha. Have you ever tried the lightweight trap setup? I was pleasantly surprised with the damage. It keeps the rotation circular (no spam skill) and allows room for surge. I have seen people break 60k ST with it on valarial.

Edit: Probably not as good with add heavy fights, as daggers is a lot of splash damage, but for people trying to keep it simple and safe, it's a strong option i think.

i DID see the lightweight trap thing... i liked the damage it showed but it seemed like a lot of extra barswaps... unless you saw a different one than i did.
The one i remember seeing started with trap on the front bar, ended with trap on the front bar, and then did another trap in the middle of the back bar rotation. is that not the right way to do it?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

All good, just didnt want people scratching their heads looking for a bar spot. haha. Have you ever tried the lightweight trap setup? I was pleasantly surprised with the damage. It keeps the rotation circular (no spam skill) and allows room for surge. I have seen people break 60k ST with it on valarial.

Edit: Probably not as good with add heavy fights, as daggers is a lot of splash damage, but for people trying to keep it simple and safe, it's a strong option i think.

i DID see the lightweight trap thing... i liked the damage it showed but it seemed like a lot of extra barswaps... unless you saw a different one than i did.
The one i remember seeing started with trap on the front bar, ended with trap on the front bar, and then did another trap in the middle of the back bar rotation. is that not the right way to do it?

No, it was circular. Basically one trap gets you through your front bar, and one gets through the back bar. You really dont need 4 heavy attacks in a rotation. I think it's over kill. So the way I was doing it was your typical back bar, Hail, PI,Caltrops (surge when needed) with light attacks, and front bar was HA trap, HA, Slashes, HA Cloak, HA Hurricane, LA Trap. But I might might mix and match HAs with LAs on the front bar depending on resources. Again, 4 is plenty of HAs and I think you can get away with 3 most of the time. If I am running sunder, I typically put a HA before both traps and a LA in front of slashes, to ensure good up time.

jakeedmundson

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

All good, just didnt want people scratching their heads looking for a bar spot. haha. Have you ever tried the lightweight trap setup? I was pleasantly surprised with the damage. It keeps the rotation circular (no spam skill) and allows room for surge. I have seen people break 60k ST with it on valarial.

Edit: Probably not as good with add heavy fights, as daggers is a lot of splash damage, but for people trying to keep it simple and safe, it's a strong option i think.

i DID see the lightweight trap thing... i liked the damage it showed but it seemed like a lot of extra barswaps... unless you saw a different one than i did.
The one i remember seeing started with trap on the front bar, ended with trap on the front bar, and then did another trap in the middle of the back bar rotation. is that not the right way to do it?

No, it was circular. Basically one trap gets you through your front bar, and one gets through the back bar. You really dont need 4 heavy attacks in a rotation. I think it's over kill. So the way I was doing it was your typical back bar, Hail, PI,Caltrops (surge when needed) with light attacks, and front bar was HA trap, HA, Slashes, HA Cloak, HA Hurricane, LA Trap. But I might might mix and match HAs with LAs on the front bar depending on resources. Again, 4 is plenty of HAs and I think you can get away with 3 most of the time. If I am running sunder, I typically put a HA before both traps and a LA in front of slashes, to ensure good up time.

good to know....i'm going to try this later and see how it goes. But you're right about the shrouded daggers thing... super helpful for aoe (its also fun to have on my bar)
It's a cheap change of skill morphs though to give it a shot. Thanks for the insight !

How did the parse compare on the dummy to the shrouded dagger rotation btw?

Stealthk80

I guess this is a morph or re-arming trap or something new?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

I guess this is a morph or re-arming trap or something new?

Yes, it is the other morph of Trap Beast. It has its advantages and weaknesses. It is half the duration, so it needs to be cast twice as often, but it can be cast from range which can be handy at times. It's not as good IMO for places like the VMA or DSA because it doesnt work as well for portal killing, but for straight sustained damage it is certainly a viable alternative.

This is Hatchet Haro's buld on Tamriel Foundry. I dont know him really well, but we are in a few of the same guilds, so I see his trial scores. Dude can play. haha

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/hatchetharos-rising-storm-stamina-sorcerer-pve-dps/

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

leekirlewb16_ESO wrote: »

So I should start to farm Sunderflame to slowly replace Sprig? I have a couple of pieces I saved so it wont be terrible

Sunderflame is a good set but it shines more in trial groups. what content do you mostly focus on?

If you dont' plan on doing trials, then its not necessary. Really all this gear farming is up to you. Find a couple sets you like and play around with the combinations until you find one that does best for you dps/sustain wise.

once you hit 20-25kish you have enough to breeze through all vet dungeons and normal trials
once you hit 30k+ you're more than capable of pulling your own weight in vet trials

The set you're wearing now (in your original post) is what i use to hit around 32-34k. (while being provide with a major fracture buff - 5280 physical penetration)

Also, what do you play on? pc, ps4, or xbox?

PC

Just got the medium stormfist, so got full 7/7 or 5 1/1 now, will see which I prefer. Also got WW bite, gonna level that line up (I know FDB is the meta) to use some of my over flowing skill points!

Some good advice here already.

7/7 is more damage, 5/1/1 or 6/1 will typically make survival a bit better. It's a judgement call. In raids with good support, I go 7/7, when running the arena, I prefer 6 medium/1 heavy.

As others have said, get rid of flurry. The build no longer works. Also, dont get hung up on monster parses like that. It takes a near perfect raid and a bit of luck with mechanics to get a parse like that.

As to gear, there is no set "best" for stamina. I wont go into a crazy amount of detail, but stamina should always carry a few options. Your gear is perfectly fine for 4 man content. If you want to get into serious trials, you should get your hands on some Debuff sets, Sunder and Nightmothers are the obvious choices for a sorc.

You will definitley want to farm VMA for a bow. I am not sure any single item/weapon can give you as much DPS boost as a VMA bow, except for maybe a perfect asylum staff in the right hands.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

1. Crafted poison on how.
2. Difference in those combos in dps are negligible but if I understand your post what ur currently running is optimal, esp if ur khajiit.
3. No comment, your set loadout isnt trial optimal so no point in commenting. You need to add VO, TFS and automatons to your repertoire and be able adjust based on what others are running. Aim to phase out sprigs first.
4. Get rid of rending/shrouded for flurry & deadly cloak.

-Drakk

There is literally nothing wrong with using spriggans over TFS.... its crazy to me that people down play the spriggan set.

- 95% of people farming/wearing TFS will never reap the full benefit of the penetration value in their normal rotation. so spriggan will out perform there for most people. ALSO, when you have to adjust for boss mechanics... guess what? you lose ALL penetration stacks and have to rebuild them, unlike spriggan that has a flat value 100% of the time. TFS might work great on the dummy, but not optimal for a vast majority of players in dungeons and trials. In an optimal trial you shouldn't run either of these sets anyway since you don't need the extra penetration.

- the lesser bonus trade off of crit chance (TFS) and 1k extra stamina (sprig) is such a minimal difference in the end result that it doesn't make or break anything in any build. Instead of extra crit you get 1000 stamina which essentially adds 100 weapon damage.

Both sets are great... and yes, in the right hands with perfect rotation TFS will be better. But its not 5k-10k damage better. Maybe in the 1k-2k range.

Also, don't use flurry. Those builds are long gone with the sustain changes from morrowind.
your rotation should be this to break 30k dps with your current gear setup.

Buffs (deadly cloak, hurricane bar swap, crit surge)
endless hail > light weave > poison inj. > light weave > rearming trap > light weave > caltrops > bar swap
Heavy attack > rending slashes > heavy attack > shrouded daggers > heavy attack > deadly cloak > heavy attack > hurricane bar swap
Repeat that and drop ultimate when ready, casting crit surge every 3rd rotation.
to push that even further into the mid to high 30,000s.. use weapon power potions.

@jakeedmundson

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread. One thing i want to point out is that rotation you posted doesnt work unless you drop bound armaments, you have one too many skills. You cant run both Surge and a Spam skill like Daggers. You have to pick one or the other, as I would not advise dropping bound armaments, which takes two slots. You might also consider keeping daggers and dropping rending slashes.

If you are new to stam/trials, I recommend running Crit surge to keep you alive. Once you get the hang of it, you can drop it for either your spam skill or one of your DOTs like rending. Another option, which i have actually seen really good results with, is to run lightweight trap instead of shrouded daggers. This allows you to keep surge for the survival. What you do is cast it at the beginning and end of your front bar (twice per rotation).

I mentioned that was how our two bars were different because the OP had bound arm. on his bar.
My bad on the confusing wording. I actually do NOT use bound arm. I personally prefer to use crit surge and vigor most times to help survive in dungeon pugs.
in the harder trials... yes i put bound arm. in those places and use weapon power potions.

All good, just didnt want people scratching their heads looking for a bar spot. haha. Have you ever tried the lightweight trap setup? I was pleasantly surprised with the damage. It keeps the rotation circular (no spam skill) and allows room for surge. I have seen people break 60k ST with it on valarial.

Edit: Probably not as good with add heavy fights, as daggers is a lot of splash damage, but for people trying to keep it simple and safe, it's a strong option i think.

i DID see the lightweight trap thing... i liked the damage it showed but it seemed like a lot of extra barswaps... unless you saw a different one than i did.
The one i remember seeing started with trap on the front bar, ended with trap on the front bar, and then did another trap in the middle of the back bar rotation. is that not the right way to do it?

No, it was circular. Basically one trap gets you through your front bar, and one gets through the back bar. You really dont need 4 heavy attacks in a rotation. I think it's over kill. So the way I was doing it was your typical back bar, Hail, PI,Caltrops (surge when needed) with light attacks, and front bar was HA trap, HA, Slashes, HA Cloak, HA Hurricane, LA Trap. But I might might mix and match HAs with LAs on the front bar depending on resources. Again, 4 is plenty of HAs and I think you can get away with 3 most of the time. If I am running sunder, I typically put a HA before both traps and a LA in front of slashes, to ensure good up time.

good to know....i'm going to try this later and see how it goes. But you're right about the shrouded daggers thing... super helpful for aoe (its also fun to have on my bar)
It's a cheap change of skill morphs though to give it a shot. Thanks for the insight !

How did the parse compare on the dummy to the shrouded dagger rotation btw?

I havent spent a lot of time comparing the two, but they arent far off if memory serves. It also depends how you use shrouded daggers. The easy way is to just cast it as part of a circular rotation, so its really not a spam skill. If that is how you play, I think Lightweight trap is a bit better. The other way is to juggle some of your front bar DOTs independently of one another, which allows you to use daggers as a true spam skill (i.e. as often as possible assuming your other DOTs are ticking). That is certainly the most DPS you will find on a sorc, but it makes the rotation more difficult. And of course, a difficult rotation executed poorly will never out parse a simple rotation executed well. But again, I think that with a lot of adds, Daggers becomes tough to pass up no matter how you use it.

@jakeedmundson
Edit: Doing some analysis of that monster parse. Correct me if I am wrong on this, but there are three shrouded daggers on that parse. I believe the initial hit is the big one, and the ones lower down are the first and second "bounce" of the dagger. It only bounces if their are adds, which is why its a smaller number of ticks. So that means he cast shrouded daggers 29 times in a 123 second parse, or once every 4.27 seconds. in other words, he is juggling DOTs and casting daggers more than once a rotation. If you can pull it off, I highly doubt a Lightweight trap rotation will beat it.

For most of us mortals running around Tamriel, circular rotation are the better option, even if we dont want to admit it.