How would you rank the classes in pvp this patch?

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

In that scenario, stamblade would reset the fight and stamden would be out of Stam for round two.

Don’t get me wrong I can beat most stamblades. But there are some that are impossible to beat because I’ll never be able to break their cloak.

Ragnarock41

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

In that scenario, stamblade would reset the fight and stamden would be out of Stam for round two.

Don’t get me wrong I can beat most stamblades. But there are some that are impossible to beat because I’ll never be able to break their cloak.

stamblade always has the option to say ''screw it'' and walk away, vs a stamden.

So thats why you either absolutely crush a stamblade or you just can't do anything at all.

Cloak is broken or not, Its more than an escape tool, you can use it in a fight as a way of avoiding damage, especially works against dizzy swing users.

DDuke

STAMBLADE, LOL

The only thing stamblade is #1 right now is at being free AP.

CyrusArya

thankyourat wrote: »

But i would argue that magblade has everything stamblade has but with higher burst damage, better cc, higher survivability, higher skill ceiling and better sets to choose from. Magblade Still has cloak and shade with most of its damage coming from range which makes cloak and shade even stronger. I don't think stamblade is bad i just think it's some other builds that got more going for them. For solo play i do agree you could make a case for stamblade being number 1, but for small group play i think magblade is better hands down. I also think light armor magblade is better than heavy armor stamblade for solo pvp. With medium armor stamblade being better than light armor magblade for solo play because of shuffle and the snare removal

Yeah I’m mostly speaking to solo. Mageblade out paces it as soon as another person is in the picture. I find stamina sustainability and surviability to scale better when you are the sole target and outnumbered, the damage is easier and more reliabile to land, and most importantly it has much better means to deal with snares and roots.

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

I love how you say these top level things like it's just something everyone knows Lexxy lol.

Especially when your opponent isn't just standing there letting you so whatever you want lol.

I don't even have a dueling spec anymore

I think it’s important to consider absolutely everything when looking at class balance, including outliers and specific set synergy. For example, part of what makes mag warden strong is the ability to so easily run Necro, giving you a 10k shield and huge damage.

Don’t get me started on warden dueling... 100% uptime major defile, huge burst, and that bear, which may as well hit for a billion damage, because if you drop into execute range you get OMGLOLEXPLODED hard enough to wreck a whole shield stack and whatever health you have left. I don’t really like duels though because they’re pretty cheesy on our platform.

@Thogard your weapon attacks break cloak, he can’t run you out of stam but you will run him out of magika as long as you consistently use LMB to break cloak he cannot possibly survive your damage toe to toe

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

I love how you say these top level things like it's just something everyone knows Lexxy lol.

Especially when your opponent isn't just standing there letting you so whatever you want lol.

I don't even have a dueling spec anymore

I think it’s important to consider absolutely everything when looking at class balance, including outliers and specific set synergy. For example, part of what makes mag warden strong is the ability to so easily run Necro, giving you a 10k shield and huge damage.

Don’t get me started on warden dueling... 100% uptime major defile, huge burst, and that bear, which may as well hit for a billion damage, because if you drop into execute range you get OMGLOLEXPLODED hard enough to wreck a whole shield stack and whatever health you have left. I don’t really like duels though because they’re pretty cheesy on our platform.

@Thogard your weapon attacks break cloak, he can’t run you out of stam but you will run him out of magika as long as you consistently use LMB to break cloak he cannot possibly survive your damage toe to toe

I think console stamblades must not be the same type as PC stamblades. PC is far more maneuverable with mouse and keyboard - there’s no way I’ll break cloak with light attacks against a good player.

DDuke

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

I love how you say these top level things like it's just something everyone knows Lexxy lol.

Especially when your opponent isn't just standing there letting you so whatever you want lol.

I don't even have a dueling spec anymore

I think it’s important to consider absolutely everything when looking at class balance, including outliers and specific set synergy. For example, part of what makes mag warden strong is the ability to so easily run Necro, giving you a 10k shield and huge damage.

Don’t get me started on warden dueling... 100% uptime major defile, huge burst, and that bear, which may as well hit for a billion damage, because if you drop into execute range you get OMGLOLEXPLODED hard enough to wreck a whole shield stack and whatever health you have left. I don’t really like duels though because they’re pretty cheesy on our platform.

@Thogard your weapon attacks break cloak, he can’t run you out of stam but you will run him out of magika as long as you consistently use LMB to break cloak he cannot possibly survive your damage toe to toe

I think console stamblades must not be the same type as PC stamblades. PC is far more maneuverable with mouse and keyboard - there’s no way I’ll break cloak with light attacks against a good player.

Alone? Possibly not. But when you're in a 1vX as a stamblade and there's light attacks and other [snip] coming from 17 people... well...


Really though, the reason I can't fathom why anyone would rank stamblade as anything but bottom #1 or #2 is that all you need to kill a stamblade is:
1. A gap closer
2. Undodgeable damage
or
20k'ish undodgeable burst
3. AoE that breaks cloak

That's not terribly hard to achieve, especially on mag DK or magplar (volatile armor/sweeps/purifying light do just fine vs cloak).


But that's not it. It's not only easy to kill stamblades, it's also easy to survive them when their delayed burst/DoT pressure is pretty much non-existent. All you've gotta do is calculate the highest possible Incap you can take and build your health/mitigation around it.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

its not only defile. its also cos warden has no reliable way to pull the NB out of stealth so the NB can just reset the fight till he eventually wins. basically if you´re a NB(not you personally but in general if you know what i mean) and you lose 1v1 vs a stam warden you have massive amounts of down syndrome. there is simply no other excuse. and no running detection pots is not a viable option

Can’t survive the burst and can’t deal damage without getting in burst range. You literally just break his cloaks with melee light attacks(and bashes) when he’s in close range.

Thogard wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

lao wrote: »

#1 stamblade
#2 stam warden
#3 mag blade/mag sorc/magDK
#4 magplar/magWarden
#5 stamDK/stamplar/stam sorc

i put stamblade over stam warden cos its the natural counter to stam warden and cos its very strong vs all other classes too

Stamblade does not counter Stam Warden when the warden is built properly. You’ve got all those gear slots to account for your only weakness, defiles, if the warden isn’t building a solution to defiles then he’s bad.

What’s a solution to defile?

And don’t say TK - it won’t help with stamblade burst.

The lethal stamblade combo is poison injection with master bow (dot still applies if you absorb shield)
Then fear then Incap

Then assassins will or whatever if they can get it off before block or shimmering goes up. Usually they can’t but stamden won’t recast shimmering and block won’t absorb all the dmg

Stamden has no counter unless it goes permablock.

If you have shimmering up then the bow proc is irrelevant, if you CC break and block cast spores(bash)vigor(bash) you’ll survive AND break his cloak with the bashes, you’ll also proc the CP passive riposte and put ~5k total damage on him while being defensive, you then don’t even need sub to kill him.

Stamblade can’t be #1 when a class defining skill is so ridiculously bugged that it breaks on the “aoe” hit box from all light attacks. Mageblade is superior to stamblade in every single relevant situation as well.

I love how you say these top level things like it's just something everyone knows Lexxy lol.

Especially when your opponent isn't just standing there letting you so whatever you want lol.

I don't even have a dueling spec anymore

We really need revised "class vs class" threads.

Tryxus

Stamina:

1. Warden
2. Nightblade
3. Sorcerer
4. Templar
5. Dragonknight

Magicka:

1. Nightblade
2. Templar
3. Warden/Dragonknight (tie)
5. Sorcerer

ak_pvp

This thread is quite skewed, since some are taking balance of duels directly. Such as since a good stamblade can take a stamwarden in a duel, that doesn't mean that they are a better class since stamden outdoes other classes in duels and openworld.

Its like saying that because a magplar can counter a MagDK. (Best for duels) That a Magplar automatically is the best class for duels, and because they are best fur duels, that must mean best everything else, right? (Untrue obviously)

TL;DR: The bigger picture.

amir412

DDuke wrote: »

STAMBLADE, LOL

The only thing stamblade is #1 right now is at being free AP.

XDD


From duels prespective:
1.Stamden/ MagDK/ HeavyStam NB.
2.Magplar/ MagNB
3.MagSorc/ Stampler/ Magden
4.StamSorc/ StamDK/ MedArmorNB

Assuming its players with brain and proper builds.

Joy_Division

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Im not really sure why magsorc is rated low, but vivec is full of unkillable jumping magsorcs.
Other than that for every 1 other class, there are 2 nightblades.

It's full of jumping sorcs for sure, but most of them are quite killable and noticeably less dangerous now that frags hits for less and doesn't stun anymore.

Good mag sorcs are like good any other class, good players and still gonna squeeze out a ton of power and effectiveness, but that's more a consequence of the player rather than the class.

Zer0oo

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

kaithuzar

The other problem, that was touched on but I guess skipped over, was the skill ceiling.
Are we talking best as in a noob can pick it up & wreck face in a day or someone who's played the class for years & knows it really well?
I would say stamden is way easier to pick up & win with over stamblade

DDuke

Zer0oo wrote: »

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

That's the thing, those mobility/escape tools only exist as long as you're fighting few specific opponents, and one of them (cloak) doesn't work at all if you're being zerged.

How often do you come across groups in Cyrodiil that don't consist of gap closer spam & undodgeable damage? Not very often I'd reckon.

It just sounds to me like some people are getting bursted down by them from stealth and think they're strong. I'm yet to see one that would live more than 20 seconds under magicka DK pressure (and that's in a 1v1/1vX situation).*

*Except for heavy armor S&B duel builds of course, those can be strong but still second to stam warden/stam sorc in duels.

ak_pvp

Zer0oo wrote: »

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

Putting stamplar/stamsorc/stamDK last for openworld solo? They have much better outnumbered mobility, and damage than the above 3, mainly due to better sets allowing damage in heavy (7th/rav) and FM giving immunity to snares which is massively better than mist. Sure they have to drop a burst heal, but running 7th gives a 1k+ hot, vigor is pretty solid too,

Stamplar is also pretty good all around now.

Waffennacht

.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

Putting stamplar/stamsorc/stamDK last for openworld solo? They have much better outnumbered mobility, and damage than the above 3, mainly due to better sets allowing damage in heavy (7th/rav) and FM giving immunity to snares which is massively better than mist. Sure they have to drop a burst heal, but running 7th gives a 1k+ hot, vigor is pretty solid too,

Stamplar is also pretty good all around now.

Every time I read those sets I'm like, "that's not Stam, that's heavy" (I know it is) but I'm like those sets are in a league of their own, they no longer are considered stamina but have achieved CHIM and have ascended the bounds of resources

Zer0oo

DDuke wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

That's the thing, those mobility/escape tools only exist as long as you're fighting few specific opponents, and one of them (cloak) doesn't work at all if you're being zerged.

How often do you come across groups in Cyrodiil that don't consist of gap closer spam & undodgeable damage? Not very often I'd reckon.

It just sounds to me like some people are getting bursted down by them from stealth and think they're strong. I'm yet to see one that would live more than 20 seconds under magicka DK pressure (and that's in a 1v1/1vX situation).*

*Except for heavy armor S&B duel builds of course, those can be strong but still second to stam warden/stam sorc in duels.

I don't know how they managed it but i think they bugged every single nb skill, but if they work nb are in my opinion the best open world class. Feel free to disagree

They are the only class who can choose which fights they engage and can even choose to pick easy targets only. Can hit targets without them knowing that they will be attacked (e.g. they are unbuffed/unshielded) . Can quite easy escape or reset unwinnable fights by breaking LoS and cloaking away. Have a instant class damage skill with major resistant debuff and a cheap instant damage ulti with cc, damage increase, heal debuff and high damage.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

Open world solo:

1. stam nb (if the skills work stam nb is god mode)
2. stam warden (mobility of stam, good heals/burst heal and sustain)
   
   
3. mag nb (if the skills work, high damage, roots, cc, hots and good escape skills but no built in counter to snares)
4. mag sorc (just because of the mobility since kiting is more important than actual combat, all other mag classes have higher killing potential at the moment than a mag sorc in a open world build )
   
   
5. mag dk (i think it is at the moment the strongest mag class, it just lacks mobility)
6. mag templer (nice damage, heals and purge but lacks mobility and ccs)
7. mag warden (highest burst in the game but lacks mobility, snares and burst heal)
   
   
8. all other stam classes(they have to give up either a burst heal and run heavy armor or they need to medium which makes them to squishy or they lack the mobility for open world)

Mobility/escape tools >> combat for open world

Putting stamplar/stamsorc/stamDK last for openworld solo? They have much better outnumbered mobility, and damage than the above 3, mainly due to better sets allowing damage in heavy (7th/rav) and FM giving immunity to snares which is massively better than mist. Sure they have to drop a burst heal, but running 7th gives a 1k+ hot, vigor is pretty solid too,

Stamplar is also pretty good all around now.

mag dk/templer and also mag warden are terrible strong at the moment damage wise and they have the better tools to survive in my opinion and with mistform also a little mobility.

I just don't like stam open word without an extrem strong heal or other good defensive skills (cloak+shades) since the amount of incap out of steath spamming nb is just too high and with a mag class i can deal with high burst+ heal bebuff better. (Can also be a L2P issue since i normally don't play this classes often)

Lexxypwns

ak_pvp wrote: »

This thread is quite skewed, since some are taking balance of duels directly. Such as since a good stamblade can take a stamwarden in a duel, that doesn't mean that they are a better class since stamden outdoes other classes in duels and openworld.

Its like saying that because a magplar can counter a MagDK. (Best for duels) That a Magplar automatically is the best class for duels, and because they are best fur duels, that must mean best everything else, right? (Untrue obviously)

TL;DR: The bigger picture.

Bear breaks cloak, a good stamblade never wins a duel against an equally good and duel spec’ed warden. They’re denied their ability to force crit heals and have inferior burst, inferior mitigation tools, inferior healing, lower native mobility, etc.

Even if we take their argument that class X beats class Y as valid reason for changing rankings it doesn’t apply to this. Stam Warden is better than stamblade at every single thing except disengaging fights

Savos_Saren

Every class has it's pros and cons in open world solo, open world group, and duels. The only issue that I detest in PVP is the ability of any class to pull off a quick, devastating combo which the opponent can't react to. StamWardens and StamBlades are kings of the uber burst combos that everyone hates. It's honestly no different than the hate we had for people wearing three proc sets.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be stealthy. That's fine if the opponent has some time to react to an attack. However, the Ambush, Fear, Incapacitating Strike, Surprise Attack, Execute combination happens before the opponent can even attempt to break free of Fear. The same goes for a StamDen's Subterranean Assault, Wrecking Blow, Dawnbreaker, Executioner combo. You get knocked down and before you can even get up, you're dead.

Then again, I'm a mDK. I should just try to waddle my ass away from the fight.

thankyourat

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every class has it's pros and cons in open world solo, open world group, and duels. The only issue that I detest in PVP is the ability of any class to pull off a quick, devastating combo which the opponent can't react to. StamWardens and StamBlades are kings of the uber burst combos that everyone hates. It's honestly no different than the hate we had for people wearing three proc sets.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be stealthy. That's fine if the opponent has some time to react to an attack. However, the Ambush, Fear, Incapacitating Strike, Surprise Attack, Execute combination happens before the opponent can even attempt to break free of Fear. The same goes for a StamDen's Subterranean Assault, Wrecking Blow, Dawnbreaker, Executioner combo. You get knocked down and before you can even get up, you're dead.

Then again, I'm a mDK. I should just try to waddle my ass away from the fight.

The best way to deal with this is to build enough defense in your builds to passively survive those combos. Or be able to predict them before they happen

Savos_Saren

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every class has it's pros and cons in open world solo, open world group, and duels. The only issue that I detest in PVP is the ability of any class to pull off a quick, devastating combo which the opponent can't react to. StamWardens and StamBlades are kings of the uber burst combos that everyone hates. It's honestly no different than the hate we had for people wearing three proc sets.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be stealthy. That's fine if the opponent has some time to react to an attack. However, the Ambush, Fear, Incapacitating Strike, Surprise Attack, Execute combination happens before the opponent can even attempt to break free of Fear. The same goes for a StamDen's Subterranean Assault, Wrecking Blow, Dawnbreaker, Executioner combo. You get knocked down and before you can even get up, you're dead.

Then again, I'm a mDK. I should just try to waddle my ass away from the fight.

The best way to deal with this is to build enough defense in your builds to passively survive those combos. Or be able to predict them before they happen

Honestly with the vampire mitigation, 24k in resistances, and 2000 crit resist, it shouldn't be that bad- but for some reason I find myself unable to break free of fear and/or get off the damn ground after a Dawnbreaker. The only way to avoid being knocked down by Dawnbreaker of Smiting is to avoid being a vampire. Which, as we all know, is pretty much a forced option for mDKs (if we hope to have some sort of mobility).

As for the prediction- I refuse to use Miats. Even though it's technically not cheating. I'd rather gimp myself. Just like how using a macro questionable... I'm still not going to do it.

Waffennacht

Savos_Saren wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Every class has it's pros and cons in open world solo, open world group, and duels. The only issue that I detest in PVP is the ability of any class to pull off a quick, devastating combo which the opponent can't react to. StamWardens and StamBlades are kings of the uber burst combos that everyone hates. It's honestly no different than the hate we had for people wearing three proc sets.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be stealthy. That's fine if the opponent has some time to react to an attack. However, the Ambush, Fear, Incapacitating Strike, Surprise Attack, Execute combination happens before the opponent can even attempt to break free of Fear. The same goes for a StamDen's Subterranean Assault, Wrecking Blow, Dawnbreaker, Executioner combo. You get knocked down and before you can even get up, you're dead.

Then again, I'm a mDK. I should just try to waddle my ass away from the fight.

The best way to deal with this is to build enough defense in your builds to passively survive those combos. Or be able to predict them before they happen

Honestly with the vampire mitigation, 24k in resistances, and 2000 crit resist, it shouldn't be that bad- but for some reason I find myself unable to break free of fear and/or get off the damn ground after a Dawnbreaker. The only way to avoid being knocked down by Dawnbreaker of Smiting is to avoid being a vampire. Which, as we all know, is pretty much a forced option for mDKs (if we hope to have some sort of mobility).

As for the prediction- I refuse to use Miats. Even though it's technically not cheating. I'd rather gimp myself. Just like how using a macro questionable... I'm still not going to do it.

2k resistance is like nothing now.

You wanna shoot for 3k+ preferably 3.6-3.8k

Master_Kas

I wouldn't place any class without a disengage above classes with it (cloak, streak) for solo openworld pvp. The exception being stam warden because they can run forward momentum while having a burstheal + heavy armor and almost being immune to ranged builds with shimmering shield.

For groupplay or duels it's diffrent tough.

ak_pvp

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

This thread is quite skewed, since some are taking balance of duels directly. Such as since a good stamblade can take a stamwarden in a duel, that doesn't mean that they are a better class since stamden outdoes other classes in duels and openworld.

Its like saying that because a magplar can counter a MagDK. (Best for duels) That a Magplar automatically is the best class for duels, and because they are best fur duels, that must mean best everything else, right? (Untrue obviously)

TL;DR: The bigger picture.

Bear breaks cloak, a good stamblade never wins a duel against an equally good and duel spec’ed warden. They’re denied their ability to force crit heals and have inferior burst, inferior mitigation tools, inferior healing, lower native mobility, etc.

Even if we take their argument that class X beats class Y as valid reason for changing rankings it doesn’t apply to this. Stam Warden is better than stamblade at every single thing except disengaging fights

I'd agree, not played warden or NB at higher tier pvp, but from what I have seen of their tools, you are right. Just quoting an example from above.

Ragnarock41

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Im not really sure why magsorc is rated low, but vivec is full of unkillable jumping magsorcs.
Other than that for every 1 other class, there are 2 nightblades.

It's full of jumping sorcs for sure, but most of them are quite killable and noticeably less dangerous now that frags hits for less and doesn't stun anymore.

Good mag sorcs are like good any other class, good players and still gonna squeeze out a ton of power and effectiveness, but that's more a consequence of the player rather than the class.

frags was literally the only part of magsorcs that was somewhat counterable.
Now they totally do undodgeable/unblockable burst/cc.
Magsorcs are ridicilous,thanks to all the no counterplay rotation and shieldstacking, combined with the unmatched mobility and great sustain on top of that cake. They're just like stamblades, but they are much more easier to play than stamblades really.

Waffennacht

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Im not really sure why magsorc is rated low, but vivec is full of unkillable jumping magsorcs.
Other than that for every 1 other class, there are 2 nightblades.

It's full of jumping sorcs for sure, but most of them are quite killable and noticeably less dangerous now that frags hits for less and doesn't stun anymore.

Good mag sorcs are like good any other class, good players and still gonna squeeze out a ton of power and effectiveness, but that's more a consequence of the player rather than the class.

frags was literally the only part of magsorcs that was somewhat counterable.
Now they totally do undodgeable/unblockable burst/cc.
Magsorcs are ridicilous,thanks to all the no counterplay rotation and shieldstacking, combined with the unmatched mobility and great sustain on top of that cake. They're just like stamblades, but they are much more easier to play than stamblades really.

Lmfao.

Me thinks you need to re evaluate PvP

Ragnarock41

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Im not really sure why magsorc is rated low, but vivec is full of unkillable jumping magsorcs.
Other than that for every 1 other class, there are 2 nightblades.

It's full of jumping sorcs for sure, but most of them are quite killable and noticeably less dangerous now that frags hits for less and doesn't stun anymore.

Good mag sorcs are like good any other class, good players and still gonna squeeze out a ton of power and effectiveness, but that's more a consequence of the player rather than the class.

frags was literally the only part of magsorcs that was somewhat counterable.
Now they totally do undodgeable/unblockable burst/cc.
Magsorcs are ridicilous,thanks to all the no counterplay rotation and shieldstacking, combined with the unmatched mobility and great sustain on top of that cake. They're just like stamblades, but they are much more easier to play than stamblades really.

Lmfao.

Me thinks you need to re evaluate PvP

Maybe try something that isnt a warden or templar for once, and actually tank that nasty magsorc burst for once, then re evaluate PvP.

magsorcs are still insane. frags wasnt even the reason people cried about sorcs in the first place, why people are acting like It was such a huge nerf? (thats not to say I agree with it, I would prefer a nerf to the shield spam instead) You have so many alternatives. Its not like taking dizzy swing from a stamsorc.

Waffennacht

Stam NB - the use of cloak (pre initial combat) Incap and surprise attack might as well be bypassing 1 GCD, then your CC break is another GCD, you're dead then

Warden - Shalk bypasses GCD and can be activated in LoS,

DK - unblockable CC, combined with meteor you bypass GCD for unblockable DMG

Templar - ... Your burst gives CC immunity without CC, nothing to bypass block, PoTL closest thing to bypassing GCD

Sorc - Curse, and Rune bypass block and GCD

This is PvP. You bypass GCD to kill, meaning Shieldstackers can only be proactive (meaning you should time/engage for immediate kills)

Lack of mobility and lack of GCD makes Templar get a low rating, Sorc being purgeable and dodgeable lowers it's value.

Sorcs aren't OP

Zordrage

Stam Blade > Everyone else sadly........ also its funny how most of the players that call for Nerf this class or that class nerf this sustain that sustain is majority of the times a Nightblade player...... if they cant kill someone few seconds after opening on him or suddenly cant abuse the broken Invis spam the enemy class or its Gear set Bonus suddenly needs a Nerf.....the best part is ? its usually the other classes self sustain they cry about... wonder why.....

yes i HATE nightblades...