medium v heavy for stam

Waffennacht

Don't wanna run 2h? Medium
Wanna run 2h heavy

If you wanna simplify it

Adenoma

That's the huge drag of 2h and heavy (both separately and together) that it just streamlines builds so much. I wish that 2h had a non-channel CC.

TheYKcid

Mustard wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel until they nerf seventh and fury dmg by 50%, heavy will do more damage then medium and be the better choice.

Nerfing 7th Legion by 50% (and I'm assuming you mean just the 5pc bonus here), would leave it with:

• less damage
• less crit
• less uptime

...compared to a simple set of crafted heavy Hunding's.

What would be the point of the set's existence?

Mustard

I see no reason that heavy should be doing more damage then medium. How does that even make sense? They need to nerf seventh and fury by 50%. Changing wrath did nothing and this will create diversity. Don’t get me started on earthgore or troll king.

Ragnarock41

I did also ended up switching to medium. Since my stamDK is a pve reroll now.

Mustard wrote: »

I see no reason that heavy should be doing more damage then medium. How does that even make sense? They need to nerf seventh and fury by 50%. Changing wrath did nothing and this will create diversity. Don’t get me started on earthgore or troll king.

the only thing that doesnt make sense here is you.
You are crying out for pointless nerfs that won't help anything.

Real meta is tactician+exploiter, amped by armor of the truth set, or senche.

And the real issue of medium armor is lack of built in tools to survive.(this is only an issue for Dk really, all other classes have ways to survive without tanking all the crap damage. cloak, purge,shimmering shield, etc..)

medium armor in PvP is working well, Its supposed to be the choice of Damage dealer and It is exactly that. What you said is simply false, medium armor is doing more damage than heavy, if you know how to build your character properly. You're just delusional and talk from what you heard, not experience.

Its very easy to hit over 4k weapon damage without even relying on proc sets, on medium armor. You can just have a %100 uptime on crazy high tooltips. My medium impregnable build had 23k leap tooltips. Could go even higher If I was max cp+ IF I had an actual damage set.
And that build had like %40 crit without investing in crit at all.

I can't stress this enough, in heavy armor you sacrifice everything to have a good crit change, because otherwise your damage and heals will suck. And if you're running thief, you're losing big time on tooltips, medium users don't have to run thief, they have high base crit chance.

Meanwhile heavy armor builds almost don't even have any crit change,they have to build for it, which means sacrificing warrior/tower mundus for thief, in some cases even sacrificing their weapon trait so that they can crit, and crits are what matters in PvP.

raasdal

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

Syiccal wrote: »

no it doesnt..when it procs the dodge nothing lands..ive tested it with a friend while it's active I couldn't land one non direct attack

Both incorrect.

Evasion gives 15% chance against any and all attacks that are dodgeable. Each single attack has the chance - there is NO proc and NO window to make it dodge more than 15%

Notice that all status and secondary effects are counted seperately. For example on Incap, even if the incap lands, you can still seperately dodge the defile and the more damage taken debuff.

There is no window in which everything will be dodged. I have tested this and i have previously posted video proof. Will link it again if someone wants the clarification. I did this during the “shuffle stack” days to know what was going on.

SodanTok

raasdal wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

Syiccal wrote: »

no it doesnt..when it procs the dodge nothing lands..ive tested it with a friend while it's active I couldn't land one non direct attack

Both incorrect.

Evasion gives 15% chance against any and all attacks that are dodgeable. Each single attack has the chance - there is NO proc and NO window to make it dodge more than 15%

Notice that all status and secondary effects are counted seperately. For example on Incap, even if the incap lands, you can still seperately dodge the defile and the more damage taken debuff.

There is no window in which everything will be dodged. I have tested this and i have previously posted video proof. Will link it again if someone wants the clarification. I did this during the “shuffle stack” days to know what was going on.

The debuff part was not fixed yet? Because I believe it was. Debuffs are part of the attack and never were supposed to be dodgeable on their own if attack was not. Havent seen any proof of it happening in game ever since that one thread that showed it with one particular addon.

Integral1900

Heavy armour is balanced to perfection, it’s medium that’s the dud, just give it bigger teeth, job done

Adenoma

Most interesting balance for medium that I've heard is tacking on impen bonuses per piece of medium armor worn to the stealth passives. It would let medium armor wearers gain additional bonuses from other item traits like well-fitted.

Thogard

Medium armor does not need a buff. I run medium on my stamplar and stamden. The mobility of medium cannot be understated. Buffing it further will give too much strength to the hit-and-run playstyle

Domander

I think it also depends on play style, if you like to hit and run, move fast, dodge proactively instead of reactively then medium is a must have.

Otherwise Heavy will be better

Betsararie

Mustard wrote: »

I see no reason that heavy should be doing more damage then medium. How does that even make sense? They need to nerf seventh and fury by 50%. Changing wrath did nothing and this will create diversity. Don’t get me started on earthgore or troll king.

The only problem with that is medium literally doesn't have survivability, stam would become unplayable.

Heavy still dealing high damage is necessary in this meta. What would be more preferable is some sort of buff to medium.