medium v heavy for stam

Syiccal

is medium still massivly at a disadvantage in pvp compared to heavy. im using a warden at min and running 2h for momentum but woukd rather drop the 2h and go shuffle but not if medium is insta death

jaws343

I am running 7 medium on my warden. I find with a Warden, medium can be extremely tanky with the right support skills. I think I get somewhere around 22-23K resistances with Medium, CP, and Ice Fortress (the minor protection is an added bonus). And my crit resistance is around 2800. Plus, with the Medium, my damage and sustain remains solid.

Syiccal

ok ..at min im using 5 heavy 2 medium
2 bloodspawn
5 shackbreaker
5 briarsheart s/b and 2h
but if I can get away with medium
il use dw and s/b

Durham

Syiccal wrote: »

is medium still massivly at a disadvantage in pvp compared to heavy. im using a warden at min and running 2h for momentum but woukd rather drop the 2h and go shuffle but not if medium is insta death

I'm running medium armor stam DK and I'm finding it very effective just as effective as my heavy armor version....

lao

outside of stamblade medium is pve gear. you can easily get 25-26k resists in heavy while maintaining 4-4.5k wpn dmg and 35%+ crit. that doesnt mean that medium isnt viable at all but you´re WAY better off in heavy. especially on a 2h warden where you dont really care about stam regen at all. going medium means you lose a ton of sustain from heavy attacks which means you have to stack some more regen to make up for it which ofc means you have less dmg aswell. overall you just end up with worse dmg and worse sustain and unless you spend some cp on resists which could be put to much better use elsewhere you end up with worse mitigation aswell. oh yea and your heals gonna be worse in medium aswell.

Syiccal

yea fair point about the sustain except I don't use 2h except as a buff bar and only for foward momentum.

Durham

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

Mazbt

Depends on playstyle. I disagree 100% that medium is just for stamblades as well. I feel quite tanky in medium on my stamplar.

gabormezo

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

Been levelin up a stamsorc during the event. Thinkin on runnin him in medium, but with added tankiness to not die at every corner. What are u runnin for those stats? I'm assuming fortified brass along with pirate and chudan one piece, right?

lao

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much.

remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

Ragnaroek93

Would probably go medium armor with brass or armor master on every class except stam nb (Shuffle is just too good in my opinion).

Durham

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

Mustard

Medium is only really viable with troll king. That should tell you all you need to know

lao

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

lao

Mustard wrote: »

Medium is only really viable with troll king. That should tell you all you need to know

^
or on stamblade or on stamblade with troll king lol. it also works with chudan but Dk is kinda the only class whos own armor buff is crappy enough to justify running chudan. may aswell use that slot for something else then. however even if you boost your resistances to heavy level its still worse than actual heavy cos heavy passives are simply that much superior for pvp.

Brutusmax1mus

They're both great, people will be in to tell you it's awful though bc there are counters to dodge roll, as there should be.

caeliusstarbreaker

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Or it just means he is running fortified brass

ezeepeezee

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

CatchMeTrolling

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

It's more like you have a 15 percent chance to evade 100 percent of damage.

ezeepeezee

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

It's more like you have a 15 percent chance to evade 100 percent of damage.

100% of direct, dodgeable attacks. AoEs and undodgeables still land.

Mustard

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel until they nerf seventh and fury dmg by 50%, heavy will do more damage then medium and be the better choice.

Rohaus

Movement is what makes medium superior for those who prefer to get in and out. Rally is only good on medium builds due to crit being much higher.

I just wish Shuffle granted longer immunity duration to snares and roots.

CatchMeTrolling

ezeepeezee wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

It's more like you have a 15 percent chance to evade 100 percent of damage.

100% of direct, dodgeable attacks. AoEs and undodgeables still land.

Well that's obvious.

lao

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Or it just means he is running fortified brass

brass gives a total of 8145 resistances. full medium is about 11k resistances. if you go like 5 medium 2 heavy you get to about 13-14k resistances. so say he is running 5 medium 2 heavy he has like 14k + 8.2k + 5.2k(major buffs). this adds up to a total of 27.4k. this is way rounded up fyi. say he runs a reinforced chest and somehow also has access to minor buffs. which adds another say 2.5k which adds up to ~30k (again rounded up). there is no way he gets to 35k without running a ton of reinforced/nirnhoned and/or alot of cp invested unless he also runs pirate skeleton/chudan combo or blood spawn which is a 6% proc chance and only lasts 6 secs.

also keep in mind that brass is a pure tank set. it does nothing at all for your sustain or dmg. that alone is a massive sacrifice just to get heavy like protection when you could just use something like 7th legion instead that helps with your dmg and your healing while also providing way better passives.

SodanTok

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

Shuffle gives you 15% chance to evade 1 dodgeable attack.

Syiccal

no it doesnt..when it procs the dodge nothing lands..ive tested it with a friend while it's active I couldn't land one non direct attack

SodanTok

Syiccal wrote: »

no it doesnt..when it procs the dodge nothing lands..ive tested it with a friend while it's active I couldn't land one non direct attack

It is always "tested with friend" and never "here is proof"

Syiccal

this is true.but I know what happened when we tested it..and it's an incredibly strong skill

lao

SodanTok wrote: »

ezeepeezee wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Really I'm running 35k resists in medium 28k health ... 4k Weapon Damage to 4.6k

My skills are 12% cheaper ... 20% more regen ... more sprinting...much more roll dodging ... more crit .. free weapon damage ... stealth is virtually free... and access to 15% evade that 15%+ less damage...
Much faster game play

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks
And 600 return every 4 to 5 secs
8% healing
10 to 12% more health
Every stam skill you press is costing you 200 to 500 More stam ... also crit rates are low...
Slower game play !!!

Heavy is not what it was ...but still strong .. I think medium is now just as good it's more of a preference of play style...

35k resists in medium = 1) overkill 2) a ton of wasted cp
4-4.6k wpn dmg = i got the same in heavy fully buffed.
12% cheaper skills = meh use a reduce cost glyph if you really have to. usually not needed tho.
20% more regen = irrelevant as you dont sustain by regen with a heavy+2h build.
more sprinting = ive tried 7 medium and 6 heavy 1 medium, the difference is not very noticable. also sprinter cp can easily make up for the difference for barely any points.
more crit = dno i get up to 37.2% crit in 6 heavy 1 medium which is more than enough for anything else than a stamblade.
stealth is virtually free = lol bruh
15% evade = block >>>>>>> 15% evade
much faster gameplay = maybe slightly faster but barely noticeable. just use expedition pots.

25% more stam regen from heavy attacks = tenacity bruh. a single heavy attack gives me 12-15% of my stam bar back.
600 return every 4-5 secs = constitution + like 1-1.5k stam regen + heavy attacks = insane sustain
8% more healing = very very good especially if you stack it with blessed etc.
10 - 12% more max health = that alone is almost reason enough to go with heavy as it helps surviving bursts so much


remaining last 2 points have already been covered

bottomline: never said medium isnt viable but if you truely wanna min max then heavy is the only true way to go, hence medium is pve gear outside of stamblades if you´re going super serious. if they really wanna make medium a unique and balanced playstyle they need to give it something else to make up for all the small disadvantages it has compared to heavy. maybe something like increased attack speed or some low base chance to evade or something like increased critical dmg when wearing 5+ medium would be worth to consider.

35k is not overkilled most people in PVP run penetration... light armor will take you under cap every time a spell is cast... 7 to 9k spell pen is the norm.. btw i have no piints in medium armor never posted that....
I have 27.9k health that's plenty for me..

You lose you 600 stam back every time tap vigor..
Medium armor buff is more then 15% mitigation..people think it's a straight up 15% evade it's not.. hince have you ever seen some evade 2 times in a row? All the time i bet

if you dont have any cp in medium armor it means you have all reinforced/nirnhoned on armor which is even worse cos you lack crit resist then. that is unless you run something like chudan which is fine for a DK and a waste for pretty much anyone else. 28k hp in medium also means you lack dmg. 15% evade is exactly that, 15% evade. evading twice in a row means nothing. welcome to probability calculations. when taking infinity amounts of swings probability means you will eventually evade 20 times in a row but in the end its still 15% evades when going towards infinity. this is 9th grade maths fyi

if i need to make it even simplier, take a d100 and roll it a couple times and see how often you roll <=15 twice in a row. you will see it happens quite frequently.

Shuffle gives you a 15% chance to proc evasion, which is a small window in which all attacks toward you are dodged, if I'm not mistaken. This means that you are actually mitigating quite a lot more than 15% damage.

Shuffle gives you 15% chance to evade 1 dodgeable attack.

thats how i remember it too. been a while since i ran shuffle tho.

SodanTok

Syiccal wrote: »

this is true.but I know what happened when we tested it..and it's an incredibly strong skill

Yeah, but let me just say than in 2 years of hearing this rumor about dodge window on shuffle proc. Nobody ever released any proof. Yet there is at least 1 proof it does not happen and any basic testing against pve mobs shows it does not happen.

Adenoma

Becoming more partial to medium - mobility is key and snare removal a huge part of that. Dodging incaps with shuffle procs is basically my nirvana.

On numerous classes you can be quite tanky and run medium.