Meteor counterplay

eso_lags

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

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itzTJ wrote: »

This is something i wanted to point out and possibly get some opinions on. There is no counterplay when it comes to meteor and abilities like rune prison, petrify and fear.. It used to be where if someone hit you with a meteor into petrify (at the last second) you could just keep holding block and come out of the petrify blocking. This is now gone for some reason. The only suggestion i have is to bring this back and add the same effect to these 3 abilities, although i will admit that im not sure if this is the right move (or how it could work with fear).. But im curious to know what others think?

Im not saying that everyone can time this right, but when people do time meteor into a petrify/fear/rune prison, there is no counterplay. On a medium armor build you are going to get destroyed, even some heavy builds. A little while ago i got hit with this combo from a sorc.. Im on a stam dk with 25k spell resist in medium armor (21k on front bar).. I was at full health and got hit with a meteor, last second rune prison so i couldnt block the meteor, and a frag at the same time.. This took me from 23k health to death... I am in medium armor.. This combo is pretty easy to do on a magblade, mag sorc, or mag dk.. This happened to me yesterday with a mag dk.. Meteor with petrify at the last second and a whip.

Templars can do this as well with toppling charge, however you can block the toppling charge.. Like i said before i think the way to fix this is to make it like petrify used to be when it comes to unblockable CC's. If you are hit while in the CC then you are immediately taken out of the CC and can block the attack or at least the next attack... Im not saying that this is the only option or that this may be the 100% right option but like i said before i want to know how others feel about this...

All I can say is that i have fought all 3 classes like this that will nuke you with this combo and there is ZERO counterplay unless you are running immovable/immovable pots. Magblade: meteor-fear-bow. Magsorc: meteor-rune prison-frag. MagDK: meteor-petrify-whip... So ya any thoughts? thanks.

The fear+meteor+merciless combo has been in the game since whenever Haste got changed to Grim Focus early on in the game's life. The counter is just to keep them at range since Fear has a smaller range than Dizzying Swing; I'm not sure what the counter is to a 28m Rune Cage.

Ya for sure, i said that in one of my earlier posts.. Or at least i think i did -_- but ya the Nb is the easiest to deal with.. Petrify and rune cage, not so much.. On my stam sorc, ill streak away from the magblade the second i see the meteor so they cannot fear me.. Other melee stam builds arent as lucky.

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Or hell, I'll do you one better! Become a vampire and slot mist form on your second bar. Let them try it then

By far the best advice yet!!!

Dracane

itzTJ wrote: »

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arkansas_ESO wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

This is something i wanted to point out and possibly get some opinions on. There is no counterplay when it comes to meteor and abilities like rune prison, petrify and fear.. It used to be where if someone hit you with a meteor into petrify (at the last second) you could just keep holding block and come out of the petrify blocking. This is now gone for some reason. The only suggestion i have is to bring this back and add the same effect to these 3 abilities, although i will admit that im not sure if this is the right move (or how it could work with fear).. But im curious to know what others think?

Im not saying that everyone can time this right, but when people do time meteor into a petrify/fear/rune prison, there is no counterplay. On a medium armor build you are going to get destroyed, even some heavy builds. A little while ago i got hit with this combo from a sorc.. Im on a stam dk with 25k spell resist in medium armor (21k on front bar).. I was at full health and got hit with a meteor, last second rune prison so i couldnt block the meteor, and a frag at the same time.. This took me from 23k health to death... I am in medium armor.. This combo is pretty easy to do on a magblade, mag sorc, or mag dk.. This happened to me yesterday with a mag dk.. Meteor with petrify at the last second and a whip.

Templars can do this as well with toppling charge, however you can block the toppling charge.. Like i said before i think the way to fix this is to make it like petrify used to be when it comes to unblockable CC's. If you are hit while in the CC then you are immediately taken out of the CC and can block the attack or at least the next attack... Im not saying that this is the only option or that this may be the 100% right option but like i said before i want to know how others feel about this...

All I can say is that i have fought all 3 classes like this that will nuke you with this combo and there is ZERO counterplay unless you are running immovable/immovable pots. Magblade: meteor-fear-bow. Magsorc: meteor-rune prison-frag. MagDK: meteor-petrify-whip... So ya any thoughts? thanks.

The fear+meteor+merciless combo has been in the game since whenever Haste got changed to Grim Focus early on in the game's life. The counter is just to keep them at range since Fear has a smaller range than Dizzying Swing; I'm not sure what the counter is to a 28m Rune Cage.

Ya for sure, i said that in one of my earlier posts.. Or at least i think i did -_- but ya the Nb is the easiest to deal with.. Petrify and rune cage, not so much.. On my stam sorc, ill streak away from the magblade the second i see the meteor so they cannot fear me.. Other melee stam builds arent as lucky.

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DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Or hell, I'll do you one better! Become a vampire and slot mist form on your second bar. Let them try it then

By far the best advice yet!!!

Omg of course, mistform. Indeed a very good advise, I have removed it from my bar, because I realised spamming a damage shield is actually better and more efficient than the damage reduction.

eso_lags

Dracane wrote: »

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itzTJ wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Um counter play to Dawnbreaker? Incap from stealth? Theater? Take a flight? Do we have any? These are all instant burst ultimates that can be countered only when used by some rookie, good player will land them with full damage on us 90-95% as all they need to do is to stun us and use ultimate. With meteor its a bit diferent, it requires first usage of ulti then stun but in general result is the same so where is the problem? Huh?

I want to point out the difference here also. Any good mag build has shields up 100% of the time. I know mag sorcs who can shield stack 100% of the time, weave in burst, and never die in a 1v1. The difference between dizzying swing and rune prison/petrify/fear is that you can block my dizz swing. You can keep your shields up and even when ccd your shields will be there..

When one of those abilities is used on someone they are unblockable. So meteor takes about 2 seconds to come down.. You hit meteor and fear me the split second before meteor hits me, i take a direct hit.. At the same time your spectral bow goes off (burst timing) and that hits me at the same time the meteor does. No block. That ends the fight. I have been dealing with this stuff for a while now, i dont really care im just getting opinions on it from daily pvp players/dueling players. But that is the difference, you can block my DB or my dizz swing. And not every class has an un dodge-able CC..

You don't need to justify yourself. People are trying to play issues down.
You are right with what you say, it's simply a fact. There is basically nothing you do against it.
A shieldstack Sorc that doesn't want to die, will never die in a 1v1 and if they wish, they can easily set up a combo like this and 1 shot you in medium armor. I honestly can only recommend you, considering how unfair the odds are, to slot a full magicka poison and try to drain and outsustain them.

I as a magicka build could not imagine greater horror, than not being able to shut down a slippery medium armor target which keeps poking and draining my ressources.

LOL its funny to hear a mag sorc player say that.. I would never use mag poisons though. Its just not in me, and honestly its the only thing in the game i will not use (mag or stam poisons) just because i truly feel like it has no place in this game. But ya a good mag sorc can go forever against most people.. A good sorc vs a good player who knows how to survive against a good sorc pretty much comes down to who gets sloppy out of boredom first.. But ya with that combo theres nothing you can do..

Now i have fought people who can pull off the combo but arent very good so their builds are sub par and they dont kill me with it.. But any decent mag dk/mag sorc/ mag nb that has good damage and knows their build can wipe you with that combo.. And for many people, especially a medium build, you are done.

Oh and just so you know i noticed you can make stealth detect poisons, that damage health or give minor defile, recently.. Might help with those slippery nigthblades lol.

I have never been a shieldstacker though, I despise shieldstacking as much as you do and think it should be removed entirely.
And I obviously know about detection potions and all this kind of stuff, I drink them like my beauty water in the morning It works vs bad NBs. However should they survive this short time, they are fine. I think the very best way vs Nightblades is wall of elements. Best reveal aoe in my opinion, I wish the Warden's winters revenge wouldn't have this annoyingly long animation and was as instant as wall of elements.

Ya i mean its annoying but effective.. I can never fault someone for doing something effective, even if its OP.. Personally i like to challenge myself, thats the real fun.. Although with the lag on console, that has become more agitating than fun like it used to be...

eso_lags

Dracane wrote: »

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itzTJ wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

This is something i wanted to point out and possibly get some opinions on. There is no counterplay when it comes to meteor and abilities like rune prison, petrify and fear.. It used to be where if someone hit you with a meteor into petrify (at the last second) you could just keep holding block and come out of the petrify blocking. This is now gone for some reason. The only suggestion i have is to bring this back and add the same effect to these 3 abilities, although i will admit that im not sure if this is the right move (or how it could work with fear).. But im curious to know what others think?

Im not saying that everyone can time this right, but when people do time meteor into a petrify/fear/rune prison, there is no counterplay. On a medium armor build you are going to get destroyed, even some heavy builds. A little while ago i got hit with this combo from a sorc.. Im on a stam dk with 25k spell resist in medium armor (21k on front bar).. I was at full health and got hit with a meteor, last second rune prison so i couldnt block the meteor, and a frag at the same time.. This took me from 23k health to death... I am in medium armor.. This combo is pretty easy to do on a magblade, mag sorc, or mag dk.. This happened to me yesterday with a mag dk.. Meteor with petrify at the last second and a whip.

Templars can do this as well with toppling charge, however you can block the toppling charge.. Like i said before i think the way to fix this is to make it like petrify used to be when it comes to unblockable CC's. If you are hit while in the CC then you are immediately taken out of the CC and can block the attack or at least the next attack... Im not saying that this is the only option or that this may be the 100% right option but like i said before i want to know how others feel about this...

All I can say is that i have fought all 3 classes like this that will nuke you with this combo and there is ZERO counterplay unless you are running immovable/immovable pots. Magblade: meteor-fear-bow. Magsorc: meteor-rune prison-frag. MagDK: meteor-petrify-whip... So ya any thoughts? thanks.

The fear+meteor+merciless combo has been in the game since whenever Haste got changed to Grim Focus early on in the game's life. The counter is just to keep them at range since Fear has a smaller range than Dizzying Swing; I'm not sure what the counter is to a 28m Rune Cage.

Ya for sure, i said that in one of my earlier posts.. Or at least i think i did -_- but ya the Nb is the easiest to deal with.. Petrify and rune cage, not so much.. On my stam sorc, ill streak away from the magblade the second i see the meteor so they cannot fear me.. Other melee stam builds arent as lucky.

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Or hell, I'll do you one better! Become a vampire and slot mist form on your second bar. Let them try it then

By far the best advice yet!!!

Omg of course, mistform. Indeed a very good advise, I have removed it from my bar, because I realised spamming a damage shield is actually better and more efficient than the damage reduction.

lol that comment made my night.. Just the way it was said lmao.. I mean most of the time i could never fit it in, and then if its a mag dk i am gonna get DESTROYED by flame damage, however i think i might try to make a build that can run mistform.. I do love the vamp skill line and that its probably the best counter yet, besides spamming the immovable skill in heavy..

Cously

Give DKs easy mode execute like sorcs then you can take away our combo, thank you very much.

SodanTok

To be fair, why there needs to be undodgeable and unblockable CC in one skill. Why people should accept being stunned at the moment of attacker choosing without any chance to counter it (bar immovable pots) or even possibility of missplay.
This is just brain dead gameplay that removes any strategy in fights. Even better that you cant use these CC when they are immune. Cant even waste the resources.

Lag and stupid people are literally the only thing that makes these abilities not OP currently.

Lord_Eomer

Hold block or dodgeroll!

Its one of easier ultimate to counter!

Dracane

itzTJ wrote: »

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Dracane wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

This is something i wanted to point out and possibly get some opinions on. There is no counterplay when it comes to meteor and abilities like rune prison, petrify and fear.. It used to be where if someone hit you with a meteor into petrify (at the last second) you could just keep holding block and come out of the petrify blocking. This is now gone for some reason. The only suggestion i have is to bring this back and add the same effect to these 3 abilities, although i will admit that im not sure if this is the right move (or how it could work with fear).. But im curious to know what others think?

Im not saying that everyone can time this right, but when people do time meteor into a petrify/fear/rune prison, there is no counterplay. On a medium armor build you are going to get destroyed, even some heavy builds. A little while ago i got hit with this combo from a sorc.. Im on a stam dk with 25k spell resist in medium armor (21k on front bar).. I was at full health and got hit with a meteor, last second rune prison so i couldnt block the meteor, and a frag at the same time.. This took me from 23k health to death... I am in medium armor.. This combo is pretty easy to do on a magblade, mag sorc, or mag dk.. This happened to me yesterday with a mag dk.. Meteor with petrify at the last second and a whip.

Templars can do this as well with toppling charge, however you can block the toppling charge.. Like i said before i think the way to fix this is to make it like petrify used to be when it comes to unblockable CC's. If you are hit while in the CC then you are immediately taken out of the CC and can block the attack or at least the next attack... Im not saying that this is the only option or that this may be the 100% right option but like i said before i want to know how others feel about this...

All I can say is that i have fought all 3 classes like this that will nuke you with this combo and there is ZERO counterplay unless you are running immovable/immovable pots. Magblade: meteor-fear-bow. Magsorc: meteor-rune prison-frag. MagDK: meteor-petrify-whip... So ya any thoughts? thanks.

The fear+meteor+merciless combo has been in the game since whenever Haste got changed to Grim Focus early on in the game's life. The counter is just to keep them at range since Fear has a smaller range than Dizzying Swing; I'm not sure what the counter is to a 28m Rune Cage.

Ya for sure, i said that in one of my earlier posts.. Or at least i think i did -_- but ya the Nb is the easiest to deal with.. Petrify and rune cage, not so much.. On my stam sorc, ill streak away from the magblade the second i see the meteor so they cannot fear me.. Other melee stam builds arent as lucky.

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Or hell, I'll do you one better! Become a vampire and slot mist form on your second bar. Let them try it then

By far the best advice yet!!!

Omg of course, mistform. Indeed a very good advise, I have removed it from my bar, because I realised spamming a damage shield is actually better and more efficient than the damage reduction.

lol that comment made my night.. Just the way it was said lmao.. I mean most of the time i could never fit it in, and then if its a mag dk i am gonna get DESTROYED by flame damage, however i think i might try to make a build that can run mistform.. I do love the vamp skill line and that its probably the best counter yet, besides spamming the immovable skill in heavy..

Be not too worried about the flame damage. I don't know, how much magicka you must use all the time.
But you can decide to stay V1 Vampire and take 0 additional damage, but also don't profit from vamp passives and cost reduction. However, you can still use mistform. it will be very expensive, but I assume you will only really need to block a metero combo once every 200 ult points. It's an option

If you choose to use this method, I recommend getting the "Bloody-Mara" drink. It's a golden drink and when you consume it, it will reduce your vampire stage by one every time (because mistform cast will progress your vampire stage by 30 minutes or so on each cast). After you have drunken this to reduce your stage, you may activate your regular buffood again. It's silly, but an option, I actually use it for dungeons where I must expect hard fire bosses, like the Planetar Inhibitor.

Blobsky

To be honest, fast reactions are the simple counter. I PvP daily on multiple classes, have done since beta and have 2.5 Grand Overlords Ap total

The changes to petrify only put it as a weaker fear. Rune prison is the same. It is ALWAYS possible to CC break before meteor. If you block whilst doing so you are good to go.

Keep in mind that the "block" registers even 'during' the cc break, so unless they land it 0.0000 seconds before meteor actually lands it is just a case of awareness. Meteor has an incredibly obvious sound q so be ready to instabreak when you see or hear it.

I know its not what you want to hear, but you asked for an experienced PvPer and that is exactly what I am

Lord-Otto

I got nearly crucified recently by this charming community when I suggested Mistform as a counter to Soul Assault. Expect backlash.

A meteorfrag won't kill you. You're looking at 10k from met and 8k from frag. It's the weakened hp bar and the execute that pushes you over the edge. And those can be countered by healing up BEFORE the meteor drops, so anticipation, and blocking or dodging the execute, yes you can cancel break free into a dodge or block.

It's an extremely powerful combo that matches its cost, ult cost and preparation skills and timing, but it is not more dangerous than a leap combo or an instant 10k dawnbreaker/incap nuke - which cost SIGNIFICANTLY less.

Also, break LoS to screw with the timing.

Lord-Otto

Oh, and Dracane, did you just recommend getting rid of our beautiful stage four skin and eyes?
NO!!!
\(ò.ó)/

Dracane

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, and Dracane, did you just recommend getting rid of our beautiful stage four skin and eyes?
NO!!!
\(ò.ó)/

They are not beautiful at all I must shroud my face in order to hide. (still waiting for something that hides vampire appearance, an illusion spell like this exists in the lore)
But really all I was saying, is that you get 0 additonal fire damage as a stage 1 vampire, because OP was worried about the DK flame damage.

Mayrael

itzTJ wrote: »

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Mayrael wrote: »

Um counter play to Dawnbreaker? Incap from stealth? Theater? Take a flight? Do we have any? These are all instant burst ultimates that can be countered only when used by some rookie, good player will land them with full damage on us 90-95% as all they need to do is to stun us and use ultimate. With meteor its a bit diferent, it requires first usage of ulti then stun but in general result is the same so where is the problem? Huh?

I want to point out the difference here also. Any good mag build has shields up 100% of the time. I know mag sorcs who can shield stack 100% of the time, weave in burst, and never die in a 1v1. The difference between dizzying swing and rune prison/petrify/fear is that you can block my dizz swing. You can keep your shields up and even when ccd your shields will be there..

When one of those abilities is used on someone they are unblockable. So meteor takes about 2 seconds to come down.. You hit meteor and fear me the split second before meteor hits me, i take a direct hit.. At the same time your spectral bow goes off (burst timing) and that hits me at the same time the meteor does. No block. That ends the fight. I have been dealing with this stuff for a while now, i dont really care im just getting opinions on it from daily pvp players/dueling players. But that is the difference, you can block my DB or my dizz swing. And not every class has an un dodge-able CC..

1. Nothing prevents you from using mentioned unblockable cc's on stam build, magicka have to slot skill just for cc, you can do the same thing.
2. You can pop Vigor while meteor is about to drop on you and you can... drums... cc's your opponent, ta da! Maybe it wont prevent all damge but will break the combo of your opponent - its l2p issue.
3. Shields are a) aviable to any magicka class, sorcs have just one more b) to kill magicka shield user you need to presure his stamina by ccing him constantly, sooner or later he will run out of stamina and then its just 1-2 sec to kill him.
4. Once again building a burst is a skill of player not in game ability. It doesn't matter is it NB, Warden or Sorc. These are burst classes that need to time its burst correctly - its how they are meant to be played, when mastered all are extremly dangerous (NB combo - ambush, incap, surprise, selene isn't less deadly at all). Countering them can not be based just on pure defense, to survive such fights you need to be agresive, presure your enemy so they will be forced to break their combos to heal/shield up, you need to soft and hard cc them to burn their resources. The best defense is offense. I feel a bit that stamina users finaly understand with what magicka builds needs to deal all the time as stamina is all about burst. But Im one biased magicka a$$hole

TLDR: Meteor combos are the same as any other chained combos (NB incap, surprise, selene or warden fissure, dawnbreaker) it doesn't deserve any special treatment, you just can't be careless anymore when fighting some magicka classes.

eso_lags

Blobsky wrote: »

To be honest, fast reactions are the simple counter. I PvP daily on multiple classes, have done since beta and have 2.5 Grand Overlords Ap total

The changes to petrify only put it as a weaker fear. Rune prison is the same. It is ALWAYS possible to CC break before meteor. If you block whilst doing so you are good to go.

Keep in mind that the "block" registers even 'during' the cc break, so unless they land it 0.0000 seconds before meteor actually lands it is just a case of awareness. Meteor has an incredibly obvious sound q so be ready to instabreak when you see or hear it.

I know its not what you want to hear, but you asked for an experienced PvPer and that is exactly what I am

I hear you @Blobsky and that may be the case. I've played for about 2 years and its always been pvp for me since the beginning. I've seen it all and im pretty good at countering and predicting thingss.. Before CWC i always used to hold block straight through a petrify and come out blocking and alive. But even still if what you're saying is true it may be just a lack of awareness..

Ill admit ive become more sloppy since the game has become so laggy on console.. Its very hard to play so specifically and calculated when the game is constantly fighting you with lag and skills/bar swap/animations not going off when you intend them to.. It gets frustrating and tiring to actually try... I guess i just have to be more careful. I suppose i will try and be react to it as fast as possible.. Ill also admit that most of the time when this happens its because i block the meteor and sometimes dont realize im CCd right away. By then its too late. So i suppose you might be right, i may just have to be faster about it.

Although it could be that i just jump around too much during my fights

eso_lags

Mayrael wrote: »

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itzTJ wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Um counter play to Dawnbreaker? Incap from stealth? Theater? Take a flight? Do we have any? These are all instant burst ultimates that can be countered only when used by some rookie, good player will land them with full damage on us 90-95% as all they need to do is to stun us and use ultimate. With meteor its a bit diferent, it requires first usage of ulti then stun but in general result is the same so where is the problem? Huh?

I want to point out the difference here also. Any good mag build has shields up 100% of the time. I know mag sorcs who can shield stack 100% of the time, weave in burst, and never die in a 1v1. The difference between dizzying swing and rune prison/petrify/fear is that you can block my dizz swing. You can keep your shields up and even when ccd your shields will be there..

When one of those abilities is used on someone they are unblockable. So meteor takes about 2 seconds to come down.. You hit meteor and fear me the split second before meteor hits me, i take a direct hit.. At the same time your spectral bow goes off (burst timing) and that hits me at the same time the meteor does. No block. That ends the fight. I have been dealing with this stuff for a while now, i dont really care im just getting opinions on it from daily pvp players/dueling players. But that is the difference, you can block my DB or my dizz swing. And not every class has an un dodge-able CC..

1. Nothing prevents you from using mentioned unblockable cc's on stam build, magicka have to slot skill just for cc, you can do the same thing.
2. You can pop Vigor while meteor is about to drop on you and you can... drums... cc's your opponent, ta da! Maybe it wont prevent all damge but will break the combo of your opponent - its l2p issue.
3. Shields are a) aviable to any magicka class, sorcs have just one more b) to kill magicka shield user you need to presure his stamina by ccing him constantly, sooner or later he will run out of stamina and then its just 1-2 sec to kill him.
4. Once again building a burst is a skill of player not in game ability. It doesn't matter is it NB, Warden or Sorc. These are burst classes that need to time its burst correctly - its how they are meant to be played, when mastered all are extremly dangerous (NB combo - ambush, incap, surprise, selene isn't less deadly at all). Countering them can not be based just on pure defense, to survive such fights you need to be agresive, presure your enemy so they will be forced to break their combos to heal/shield up, you need to soft and hard cc them to burn their resources. The best defense is offense. I feel a bit that stamina users finaly understand with what magicka builds needs to deal all the time as stamina is all about burst. But Im one biased magicka a$$hole

TLDR: Meteor combos are the same as any other chained combos (NB incap, surprise, selene or warden fissure, dawnbreaker) it doesn't deserve any special treatment, you just can't be careless anymore when fighting some magicka classes.

Eh i dont buy it. IMO that combo is one of the strongest in the game and i think you are over estimating some things.. I dont deny some of the things you are saying but for starters not all classes have an unblockable cc. Also not all stam builds want to use a mag cc.. And i said in an earlier post that yes you can CC them before they CC you but if you are running a melee CC and the opponent moves away then it gets tough.

Regardless i think you are underestimating this combo.. It is very very strong. Other combos in the game are strong as well, i agree.. Example, heavy armor DW stamblades are RIPPING me right now.. They still have dodge chance, tankiness, and some real high damage. Like i said before, incap needs a cost increase. At least to 100-110.. But the combo i mean is a fear-incap-bow.. The thing about incap is you can CC break the fear right away, and hold block, but the incap still hits you. So yes nightblades are tough.

Also i always try to have a sustained build with burst.. If im playing a build its made for solo pvp. That means i need to be able to self heal damn good, burst people, and sustain (and have speed). So any build i make is solid for that. Regardless i think im going to do what someone else mentioned and try and be quicker about what i do in this situation. But ill say it again, i have seen every combo in this game. Fought every kind of build. I know about burst combos, and imo this is one of the strongest when done 100% correctly.