Snipe cast time is to long
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IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Heh reduce the snipe cast time? Ok, but reduce its damage adequately. Cast time reduced by 50%? Reduce its damage by 50%.
There are some builds that use snipe with success - LA targets get hits 15-17k with just one hit, (I should mention that when cought they die faster than their targets) imagine now that they can spam it...
Eh, frag gets bonus damage for no cast time.
How about we not be selective with information?
Snipe also applies major defile and has nearly twice the range of frags, which only has a 20% chance to be insta cast with a measly 10% damage boost. I'll gladly take Major Defile over 10% damage on a skill that is highly telegraphed both before and after it is used.
You can see a frag a mile away and forever before it's actually fired, even in a 1vx. But unless you see the sniper fire the shot during a 1vx (unlikely, since they should be in stealth) you're most likely not going to dodge it without MIAT.
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IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Another idea to follow in game design would be to turn Snipe into Quick Shot. Quick Shot would be slighty cheaper but deal much less damage, akin to Silver Bolt or a dodgeable version of Dive.
Then have Quick Shot proc a "Snipe" based on other conditions. Such as: "must be stationary for at least 6 seconds" or "after landing 4 quick shots on the same target"
I like the stationary condition for snipe a lot. However, while the quick shot concept is a good idea, it's counter initiative to a "snipe" skill. What sniper fires off 4 shots and then sets up to snipe?
OP stated their issue is that the target is out of range by the time snipe is cast.
If you flip your idea around it potentially solves everything.
0.5 second cast time for snipe which then gets changed into quick shot for 4 shots or 8 seconds. First snipe has the regular tool tip, second snipe (first quick shot) has say 50% damage but less range, second quick shot 60% damage but less range etc. The damage/range will update so that at 8 seconds quick shot has the shortest range but deals 100% damage again.
No more mindless snipe spams and it would open up viable bow builds (not create them just a starting point). Snipe builds as they are now are simply not conducive to healthy gameplay.
*If you play with MIAT you simply don't have the experience to comment on snipe spam, especially if you only ever play on PC.Edited by IAVITNI on December 25, 2017 9:06AM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heh reduce the snipe cast time? Ok, but reduce its damage adequately. Cast time reduced by 50%? Reduce its damage by 50%.
There are some builds that use snipe with success - LA targets get hits 15-17k with just one hit, (I should mention that when cought they die faster than their targets) imagine now that they can spam it...
Eh, frag gets bonus damage for no cast time.
How about we not be selective with information?
Snipe also applies major defile and has nearly twice the range of frags, which only has a 20% chance to be insta cast with a measly 10% damage boost. I'll gladly take Major Defile over 10% damage on a skill that is highly telegraphed both before and after it is used.
You can see a frag a mile away and forever before it's actually fired, even in a 1vx. But unless you see the sniper fire the shot during a 1vx (unlikely, since they should be in stealth) you're most likely not going to dodge it without MIAT.
You dont get to say "How about we not be selective with information?"
And then say stuff like this when:- Only one morph of snipe applies Major Defile
- Snipe has 17% more range than frag near keep and 19% when far from keep
- Snipe has visible arc and sound cue something that can be actually seen and heard (when working) from afar with very obvious cast time animation while frag travels through terrain and people without sound
And stop kidding yourself. No sorc would ever pick up hard casted frag even with Major Defile. I dont get how its keep looping to this part. There is one skill that is important part of skillset of every magsorc, one of the better setups in the game in open world pvp and then there is snipe, skill nearly nobody uses outside Xv1. If you come here to complain how snipe is somehow better than frag, you picked fight to lose.
If snipe is still somehow problem for people, because 20 people are using at them, maybe its time to look at reasons why it is bad for single user but useful for 20. Like reason why there are never 20 sorcs spamming frags from zerg, because they can actually play the game normally. If you are total newbie and use bow as your main weapon you will never kill anyone outside Xv1. You literally need to be protected by zerg and let spamming one long range skill to do anything. Second, Major Defile. Major Defile is obviously important part for any bow ganking same as it is for incap ganking, but who says it has to be on the hardest hitting skill with the longest range. Well, except that little part where bar poison injection all other bow skills are rubbish with small range in PVP and outside putting in on venom arrow (which would still nobody use) it cant be anywhere else (well it could be on the bow CC, if it had range or bow ulti if it had much much cheaper cost)Edited by SodanTok on December 25, 2017 9:30AM5 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Heh reduce the snipe cast time? Ok, but reduce its damage adequately. Cast time reduced by 50%? Reduce its damage by 50%.
There are some builds that use snipe with success - LA targets get hits 15-17k with just one hit, (I should mention that when cought they die faster than their targets) imagine now that they can spam it...
Eh, frag gets bonus damage for no cast time.
How about we not be selective with information?
Snipe also applies major defile and has nearly twice the range of frags, which only has a 20% chance to be insta cast with a measly 10% damage boost. I'll gladly take Major Defile over 10% damage on a skill that is highly telegraphed both before and after it is used.
You can see a frag a mile away and forever before it's actually fired, even in a 1vx. But unless you see the sniper fire the shot during a 1vx (unlikely, since they should be in stealth) you're most likely not going to dodge it without MIAT. You dont get to say "How about we not be selective with information?"
And then say stuff like this when:- Only one morph of snipe applies Major Defile
- Snipe has 17% more range than frag near keep and 19% when far from keep
- Snipe has visible arc and sound cue something that can be actually seen and heard (when working) from afar with very obvious cast time animation while frag travels through terrain and people without sound
And stop kidding yourself. No sorc would ever pick up hard casted frag even with Major Defile. I dont get how its keep looping to this part. There is one skill that is important part of skillset of every magsorc, one of the better setups in the game in open world pvp and then there is snipe, skill nearly nobody uses outside Xv1. If you come here to complain how snipe is somehow better than frag, you picked fight to lose.
If snipe is still somehow problem for people, because 20 people are using at them, maybe its time to look at reasons why it is bad for single user but useful for 20. Like reason why there are never 20 sorcs spamming frags from zerg, because they can actually play the game normally. If you are total newbie and use bow as your main weapon you will never kill anyone outside Xv1. You literally need to be protected by zerg and let spamming one long range skill to do anything. Second, Major Defile. Major Defile is obviously important part for any bow ganking same as it is for incap ganking, but who says it has to be on the hardest hitting skill with the longest range. Well, except that little part where bar poison injection all other bow skills are rubbish with small range in PVP and outside putting in on venom arrow (which would still nobody use) it cant be anywhere else (well it could be on the bow CC, if it had range or bow ulti if it had much much cheaper cost)
TBF there are pleebs hardcasting frags from zergs. They are pretty similar in that regard.
What I'd do with snipe is make it a narrow long targeted shot with no cast time and faster travel time. It'd be hard to hit for scrubs, but against PvE bosses with big hitboxes it could be used as a spammable. I'd also make it go through block if its targeted.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭[[*] Only one morph of snipe applies Major Defile
And only 1 morph gives the 10% damage boost. You brought up one morph, so I only brought up one morph. I have no issues with the concept of snipe. I just don't think it's properly implemented.[*] Snipe has 17% more range than frag near keep and 19% when far from keep
I'll admit I misspoke here. Didn't care enough to actually look at the ranges of the skills.
[*] Snipe has visible arc and sound cue something that can be actually seen and heard (when working) from afar with very obvious cast time animation while frag travels through terrain and people without sound
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And stop kidding yourself. No sorc would ever pick up hard casted frag even with Major Defile. I dont get how its keep looping to this part. There is one skill that is important part of skillset of every magsorc, one of the better setups in the game in open world pvp and then there is snipe, skill nearly nobody uses outside Xv1. If you come here to complain how snipe is somehow better than frag, you picked fight to lose.
Honestly, the thought of hard casting frags never occurred to me since I almost never do it and I run dual wield on my magicka sorc for the aesthetics. But again on the selective information, I specifically stated I was referring to 1vx and I supposed chaotic combat could be inferred to an extent. You can see when a sorc has a frag proc'd before they actually fire it and it's a purple missile flying at you at a relatively slow speed. Much easier to spot than a greyish/greenish arc streaking through the air in a 1vx. I've dodged/blocked frags from peripherals because it's a very visible skill. I'm not looking in the air during a 1vx for snipes 100% of the time. If I'm aware that theirs a sniper sure. But the point is that it is much easier to react to a frag than a snipe. Snipe requires more proactive awareness.
Add to that that any experienced player has a general sense, even without visual cues, when a sorc will use a frag since the rotation is very rigid. The current state/meta of frag is far from OP. Snipe itself is not an op skill but the snipe meta on console is insanely annoying. If I get hit by a snipe in a 1vx I immediately go defensive. The real issue is that after taking a 7-12k hit I also have to deal with Major Defile while having 2-3 zerglings spamming execute. And I only refer to the fights where I know I have a huge skill advantage that is greater than potato number advantage. That skill advantage is immediately negated by a single snipe that drops a third of my health and prevents me from healing. For reference, I run full impen and heavy on most characters (of which I have 14, all PvP oriented)
Back to your point of Defile, I was comparing the Major Defile specifically to the 10% damage boost. If I could choose 10% or Major Defile on a proc'd frag it's Major Defile all the way.
I do agree with the rest of your post, but you were the one that brought frags into a snipe forum for comparison. In retrospect I see the tone in my post. That said you're initial post sounded like a "nerf sorc" qq. Frag is strong in the sorc kit whereas snipe is weak in the bow kit, but that has less to do with frag itself and more to do with skill lines. I could easily argue that snipe is a stronger skill using the fact that 1 snipe spammer and 1 frag spammer walking towards each other from max range (of snipe) while casting will result in the sniper (with Major Defile) always winning the fight (assuming similar stats), but that is being selective with information, thereby skewing the results.
I and most other players have few gripes with the morph that applies Major Fracture. However, in the current meta, Major Defile is just too strong on snipe. The primary problem is that Snipe applies Major Defile which is an incredibly debilitating debuff. The other issues with snipe are more lag/exploit related, it's really just the Major Defile. The secondary issue is that it's not fun to fight someone who fires off a snipe and than runs away while their 2 friends snare/cc you on their low damage block tanks. But again, this secondary issue is more about the meta than skills themselves.
For context, If asked I do say I'm a sorc main but I've shelfed my magicka sorc since homestead. All my guildies who I met after homestead thought I was a stamina main. This also means that majority of my experiences with Snipe are from the perspective of a stam character.0 -
Hixtory✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Wrobel can you reduce the cast time of snipe it takes way to long to cast by the time you are trying to if you aint at a long distance the player has already dodged it snipe is the only skill the bow and arrow has that does any real damage if you can't connect with it then it's basically useless
NO, this is clearly a L2P issue. The cast time is exactly what it must be for the damage it does and the debuff it applies.0 -
Jake1576✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Wrobel can you reduce the cast time of snipe it takes way to long to cast by the time you are trying to if you aint at a long distance the player has already dodged it snipe is the only skill the bow and arrow has that does any real damage if you can't connect with it then it's basically useless
NO, this is clearly a L2P issue. The cast time is exactly what it must be for the damage it does and the debuff it applies.
It isn't a learn to play issue you have no idea what your even talking about1 -
Jake1576✭✭✭✭✭Heh reduce the snipe cast time? Ok, but reduce its damage adequately. Cast time reduced by 50%? Reduce its damage by 50%.
There are some builds that use snipe with success - LA targets get hits 15-17k with just one hit, (I should mention that when cought they die faster than their targets) imagine now that they can spam it...
Eh, frag gets bonus damage for no cast time.
How about we not be selective with information?
Snipe also applies major defile and has nearly twice the range of frags, which only has a 20% chance to be insta cast with a measly 10% damage boost. I'll gladly take Major Defile over 10% damage on a skill that is highly telegraphed both before and after it is used.
You can see a frag a mile away and forever before it's actually fired, even in a 1vx. But unless you see the sniper fire the shot during a 1vx (unlikely, since they should be in stealth) you're most likely not going to dodge it without MIAT. You dont get to say "How about we not be selective with information?"
And then say stuff like this when:- Only one morph of snipe applies Major Defile
- Snipe has 17% more range than frag near keep and 19% when far from keep
- Snipe has visible arc and sound cue something that can be actually seen and heard (when working) from afar with very obvious cast time animation while frag travels through terrain and people without sound
And stop kidding yourself. No sorc would ever pick up hard casted frag even with Major Defile. I dont get how its keep looping to this part. There is one skill that is important part of skillset of every magsorc, one of the better setups in the game in open world pvp and then there is snipe, skill nearly nobody uses outside Xv1. If you come here to complain how snipe is somehow better than frag, you picked fight to lose.
If snipe is still somehow problem for people, because 20 people are using at them, maybe its time to look at reasons why it is bad for single user but useful for 20. Like reason why there are never 20 sorcs spamming frags from zerg, because they can actually play the game normally. If you are total newbie and use bow as your main weapon you will never kill anyone outside Xv1. You literally need to be protected by zerg and let spamming one long range skill to do anything. Second, Major Defile. Major Defile is obviously important part for any bow ganking same as it is for incap ganking, but who says it has to be on the hardest hitting skill with the longest range. Well, except that little part where bar poison injection all other bow skills are rubbish with small range in PVP and outside putting in on venom arrow (which would still nobody use) it cant be anywhere else (well it could be on the bow CC, if it had range or bow ulti if it had much much cheaper cost)
TBF there are pleebs hardcasting frags from zergs. They are pretty similar in that regard.
What I'd do with snipe is make it a narrow long targeted shot with no cast time and faster travel time. It'd be hard to hit for scrubs, but against PvE bosses with big hitboxes it could be used as a spammable. I'd also make it go through block if its targeted.
Are you kidding me roll dodge is already out of control just no there are ppl that can already dodge snipe just from stand still I don't know how but they doEdited by Jake1576 on December 28, 2017 8:34PM0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heh reduce the snipe cast time? Ok, but reduce its damage adequately. Cast time reduced by 50%? Reduce its damage by 50%.
There are some builds that use snipe with success - LA targets get hits 15-17k with just one hit, (I should mention that when cought they die faster than their targets) imagine now that they can spam it...
Eh, frag gets bonus damage for no cast time.
How about we not be selective with information?
Snipe also applies major defile and has nearly twice the range of frags, which only has a 20% chance to be insta cast with a measly 10% damage boost. I'll gladly take Major Defile over 10% damage on a skill that is highly telegraphed both before and after it is used.
You can see a frag a mile away and forever before it's actually fired, even in a 1vx. But unless you see the sniper fire the shot during a 1vx (unlikely, since they should be in stealth) you're most likely not going to dodge it without MIAT.
You can hear it 3 secs before it hits listen for a whistle noise.Power Wealth And Influence.1