Let’s talk penetration

pteam

Firstly, does adding penetration through CP have jump points? Where in other cp your damage won’t go up til you hit the next round percentage, does spell penetration work the same way?

Let’s say everybody has 100 base penetration
Light armor passives adds 4884
Pierce Armor from the tank or elemental drain will get you 5280 penetration
= 10,264 penetration

I assume most groups are not running extra penetration but some may.

Maeslstrom:
ARENAS 1,6 and 9: requires 9k penetration;
ARENAS 2,3, and 5 requires 12k penetration;
ARENAS 4,7 and 8 requires 18k penetration.

I’ve read that 500 penetration = 1% more damage in pve and I’ve read it’s 660.

And then there’s this thread which says putting points into penetration is very ineffectiveness because it takes 7 points just to get 1% more damage - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/361402/cp-stars-that-are-never-useful

So what is the bare minimum spell penetration you should have in pve and are there jump points?

TheNorthernDragon

That forum post has out-of-date information, by 1 or 2 updates. Champion points, and their jump points, have been altered at least twice in the past 12 months.

This is one of the more recent guides: https://dottzgaming.com/2017/10/12/eso-cp-jump-points-explained/

Wizball1987

penetration is a flat number so no jump points...and is more useful to buff a bit with cp since they nerfed sharpened

FakeFox

Penetration is not percentage based, so it has no jumppoints. Penetration reduces resistance by it's exact point value. CP have diminishing returns, so putting too much points into penetration is indeed not effective, as penetration is pretty much always the best DPS source as long as there is something to penetrate however the diminishing returns on CP at some point negate that.

For Magicka in PUGs I would use 40pt or something in penetration and that's it. This isn't cap with bad support but shouldn't matter too much and you don't really have any other good source of penetration. You could also add sharpened weapons if you wan't but I think it's not worth doing.

TheYKcid

Edit: nevermind, Sixty5 provided a more accurate answer

Sixty5

Resistance scales to level. In the case of Monsters, there are all effectively level 50, so for them 500 armour is equal to 1% damage reduction. In the case of players, at max you are effectively level 66 (level 50 plus 16 Vet ranks through CP) and thus 660 armour is equal to 1% damage reduction.

As far as the amount of penetration you need, it is heavily dependent on the group you are playing in.

In my group our Tank runs Infused Torugs with crusher, meaning that their taunts will remove about 8k resistances from bosses, meaning that in order to hit pen cap, I need about 10k penetration from gear and CP, as Dungeon monsters all have 18200 resists.

CP penetration has no jump points, and the amount that you allocate is going to depend on your setup, and group.
For instance, if I was playing a stam build with Spriggans and Night Mothers, I am getting about 7.5k penetration from my two sets, and then the Tank is removing 8k resistances from the boss, so I should allocate enough CP to get 2.5k penetration to cap me out.

Basically as a rule of thumb, you'll want to aim for about 10k pen in your PVE setup, with 2-4k of that in CP. That 2-4k is important, given that it allows you to drop some in the event of playing with people who are providing additional resistance debuffs, such as Power of the Light, or Roar of Alkosh.

SaintSubwayy

As you compare it with vMA, I assume you want to know about PVE.

as Sixty5 already mentioned, it depends on your group, and which debuffs they apply.

Here's a list of all Penetration sources which your group, and you have access too:

Physical Penetration:

Infused Crusher: 2107 pen
Infused Crusher with Torug: 2740 pen
Roar of Alkosh: 3010 pen
NMG : 2580 pen
Sunderflame: 3440 pen
Spriggans: 3450 pen
TFS: 4300 pen
Kragh's: 1487 pen
Unfathmoble Darkness set: 1487 pen
Sharpened Weapontrait 1h: 1326 pen
Sharpened 2h: 2752 pen
Major Fracture: 5280 pen
Minor Fracture: 1320 pen
CP's: Variable, dependiing of sets and debuffs in use.


Spell Penetration:

Infused Crusher: 2107 pen
Infused Crusher with Torug: 2740 pen
Roar of Alkosh: 3010 pen
Light Armor Passive 4884 pen
Spinners set: 3450 pen
Sharpened 2h: 2752 pen
Major Breach: 5280 pen
Minor Breach: 1320 pen
CP's: Variable, dependiing of sets and debuffs in use.

So, since you made an example which included light armor passive, Im gona make a Magicka example aswell.

Boss has 18200 Resistance, and your group is using, Major Breach, Light Armor Passive, Infused Crusher (no Torugs) and Roar of Alkosh...this gives you a total of 15372 Penetration

18200-5280-4884-2107-3010= 2828 Resistance left.

those 2828 Resistance, can be Penetrated by CP's or even more Penetration skills. As I said, try to not over Penetrat.

MyrddinEmrys

I would like to add my 2 cents to this discussion.

If you would like wonderful primer on damage calculation in ESO, check out Asayre's work on the matter here:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/
(Its actually updated for HotR and CWC didn't make any significant changes to damage calculations)

He also coded the best CP optimizer on the internet: http://asayre.mygamesonline.org/HoTRoptimisation/CPOptimisation.html#

If you find this tool to your liking and need an better explanation of how to use it, I can provide one.

Online resources aside, the most important thing to know about penetration is that it is entirely dependent on you group.
You want to have 18200 Penetration and not a single point more. You have to make up for the difference by using the lover mundus or CPs.

It is worth noting that up until somewhere around CP640, for a Magicka DPS (with 7 divines) without a well coordinated group (There is a crusher enchantment and Major Breach in play, but no other bonuses) you are actually better off to take the Lover mundus than the apprentice, because the number of CP you need to spend into spell penetration can give you a larger damage bonus being used elsewhere than the extra spell damage from the apprentice does.

This changes with a well coordinated group. For vHM trials, you will likely have a group that is very well coordinated in terms of penetration, to the point that if you tank is running tourges infused crusher along with Alkosh, and you have a templar in your group who can provide minor breach during boss fights (and you personally have the destro passive), you need a whopping 9 CP into penetration and so can really push the limits of your DPS.

MyrddinEmrys

accidental reply. please remove.