Sorcerer Combat Pets NOT Affected by Spell Power

GrumpyDuckling

Sorcerer pets are NOT being affected by spell power. This means that sets that give spell power bonuses, and skills that buff spell power, are NOT affecting pet damage.

For example, Rattlecage 3, 4, and 5 piece buffs do not affect pets:


Platform: All
Server: All

Beardimus

I think that's standard / as intended

Magika pool for pets, hence the Necro set etc.

RattleCage is quite a niche setup for a Sorc FYI I'm.guessing you struggling with skill slot space on a dual pet build and want the free Maj Sorc...

GrumpyDuckling

Beardimus wrote: »

I think that's standard / as intended

Magika pool for pets, hence the Necro set etc.

RattleCage is quite a niche setup for a Sorc FYI I'm.guessing you struggling with skill slot space on a dual pet build and want the free Maj Sorc...

I haven't found any information from ZOS saying that it was an intended decision for pets to ignore spell damage from sets and buffs. Every other damage skill in the game scales with weapon/spell damage and max stat, unless otherwise stated - which leads to the conclusion that it would be standard for pets to also be affected by spell damage.

It has to be a bug.

Edit: typo

GrumpyDuckling

It would be much appreciated if you could take a look at this, ZOS.

Mystrius_Archaion

Every pet and multiple skills that change after original use are not affected by spell damage buffs. The problem is they are considered as not being triggered by your character but instead being triggered by the enemy or some other placeholder effect.

The worst is the heal from the sorcerer pets. It's not changing either from spell damage.

I think they really need a combat system overhaul to make things just work more simply so they can change things, if they need or want to, without breaking dozens of other things by just looking at something slightly in the same zip code.

GrumpyDuckling

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Every pet and multiple skills that change after original use are not affected by spell damage buffs. The problem is they are considered as not being triggered by your character but instead being triggered by the enemy or some other placeholder effect.

The worst is the heal from the sorcerer pets. It's not changing either from spell damage.

I think they really need a combat system overhaul to make things just work more simply so they can change things, if they need or want to, without breaking dozens of other things by just looking at something slightly in the same zip code.

I agree with your statement that change needs to happen.

The precedent that ZOS has created with skills is that any skill that damages and/or heals should be affected by:
1) max stat
2) spell/weapon damage

Unless otherwise stated in the tooltip. The pets do damage and heal... so, uh ZOS? What's going on here?

GrumpyDuckling

This has to be a bug because I can't find any information anywhere that says pets are supposed to ignore spell power.

GrigorijMalahevich

Why would you run rattledage on a magsorc anyway? Power surge is a must.

P.S. it is common knowledge that spell damage doesn’t apply to pets...

GrumpyDuckling

Valera Progib wrote: »

Why would you run rattledage on a magsorc anyway? Power surge is a must.

P.S. it is common knowledge that spell damage doesn’t apply to pets...

Not the point, but Rattlecage is being used as an example.

Can you please provide a source in which has ZOS has stated that it was intended for spell damage to ignore pets? I don't care how many people are aware. I care if it is a bug or not.

Zander98

I've been playing since beta and it has always been this way.
Pets, like shields, scale only off of max magical.
Pets got a major buff a few updates ago by allowing CPs to finally effect them.
And an update before that the buffed them to where they attack with their casters crit number.
I am not saying it's right. I am not saying it's wrong. But it's been like that since day 1. And has never been different.

SupremeRissole

I thought one of the patches this year made it that pets inherited all buffs on the player? Sounds like a bug

Magdalina

It's been this way since launch. I don't think you could find an official statement from ZOS on the matter because it's never been changed and they never felt a need to clarify, just like they never explicitly stated that shields only scale with max magicka as well yet most everyone knows that.

It's a bit odd but I think it's safe to say it is indeed intended or/and Zenimax is perfectly content leaving it this way.

It's also why Necro is max magicka*5. Given that pets STILL provide best dps on a magsorc even while ignoring spelldamage, in order for them to take spelldamage into account they'd have to be nerfed/rebalanced, and Necro set probably would need to be reworked as well, all of which knowing ZOS would result in a disaster where either pets would be doing 50k dps on their own or pets would go back to 100% waste of a slot.

Tl;dr - it's okay where it is, and it is there to stay. Chill

GrumpyDuckling

Magdalina wrote: »

It's been this way since launch. I don't think you could find an official statement from ZOS on the matter because it's never been changed and they never felt a need to clarify, just like they never explicitly stated that shields only scale with max magicka as well yet most everyone knows that.

It's a bit odd but I think it's safe to say it is indeed intended or/and Zenimax is perfectly content leaving it this way.

It's also why Necro is max magicka*5. Given that pets STILL provide best dps on a magsorc even while ignoring spelldamage, in order for them to take spelldamage into account they'd have to be nerfed/rebalanced, and Necro set probably would need to be reworked as well, all of which knowing ZOS would result in a disaster where either pets would be doing 50k dps on their own or pets would go back to 100% waste of a slot.

Tl;dr - it's okay where it is, and it is there to stay. Chill

It's not okay where it is because it makes spell damage slots on sets wasted spots and skill buffs less irrelevant on any pet or semi-pet build.

Also, why is the current formula "there to stay?" We don't have any evidence to suggest that this isn't a bug.

FrancisCrawford

One man's bug is another man's "undocumented feature".

Metafae

Power of the light scales only off max stamina. It's not unheard of to have skills that scale only off max stat.

Magdalina

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

It's been this way since launch. I don't think you could find an official statement from ZOS on the matter because it's never been changed and they never felt a need to clarify, just like they never explicitly stated that shields only scale with max magicka as well yet most everyone knows that.

It's a bit odd but I think it's safe to say it is indeed intended or/and Zenimax is perfectly content leaving it this way.

It's also why Necro is max magicka*5. Given that pets STILL provide best dps on a magsorc even while ignoring spelldamage, in order for them to take spelldamage into account they'd have to be nerfed/rebalanced, and Necro set probably would need to be reworked as well, all of which knowing ZOS would result in a disaster where either pets would be doing 50k dps on their own or pets would go back to 100% waste of a slot.

Tl;dr - it's okay where it is, and it is there to stay. Chill

It's not okay where it is because it makes spell damage slots on sets wasted spots and skill buffs less irrelevant on any pet or semi-pet build.

Also, why is the current formula "there to stay?" We don't have any evidence to suggest that this isn't a bug.

Because it's been this way for what, 4 years by now, Zenimax is more than aware of this and there is even a set aimed at pet builds reflecting that?

I'm not saying it's perfect or even logical but it is what it is, and they would have to change way too many things to "fix" that "bug" without either destroying pet builds or making them godmode op.

FrancisCrawford

Metafae wrote: »

Power of the light scales only off max stamina. It's not unheard of to have skills that scale only off max stat.

There are also skills that scale only on health.

Mystrius_Archaion

Metafae wrote: »

Power of the light scales only off max stamina. It's not unheard of to have skills that scale only off max stat.

That's a bug that will be fixed with update 17 like all the other class abilities that should be buffed by Innate Axiom set bonus according to this post:

ZOS_KNowak wrote: »

In Update 17, we've updated all Class abilities to make sure they are properly categorized. Item Sets like Innate Axiom or Overwhelming Surge should interact with these abilities correctly.

Note that in Innate Axiom's case, it only increases Spell and Weapon Damage of Class abilities. Class abilities that do not scale with either of these stats (such as Impaling Shards which scales with your Max Health, or Lotus Flower which scales with your Level) will not see any benefit from this Item Set.

Shields do not scale with spell damage buffs, but that should be a bug as well. There is nothing saying they shouldn't. That's one of those very hidden details that is not friendly to newer players or those players that don't thoroughly test and just expect to play a game and have fun without getting a college degree just in ESO stats.
Let's hope the above quoted fix affects shield abilities also.

WrathOfInnos

I had always just accepted that various skills scale differently off of stats. For sorcerer pets specifically, I am starting to wonder if it is an oversight that these were never changed to scale like most skills. The warden bear, for example, scales with both spell damage and max magicka. I'm not sure I have a strong opinion which way it should be, but scaling is a little unclear and should be added to the tooltip if its atypical (not ~10.5:1).

For data on how every skill scales, take a look at this page: https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php

It will answer a lot of questions.

Vaoh

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

GrumpyDuckling

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

How do you know it's intended?

Why do Warden pets scale on spell power but not Sorcerer pets?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Of course this is a general rule. Steadfast ward and its morphs from the resto staff are increased by spell Damage.

Vaoh

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

How do you know it's intended?

Why do Warden pets scale on spell power but not Sorcerer pets?

Not necessarily true.

A Warden’s pet refers to their Bear, which is an Ult. That’s the exception. The same can be said for the Storm Atro Sorc Ult.

Warden Netches don’t scale off either of them.

Scorch/Cliff Racer have the visuals of pets but aren’t actually pets (although they proc the first passive in the Animal Companions tree referring to pets).

Vaoh

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Of course this is a general rule. Steadfast ward and its morphs from the resto staff are increased by spell Damage.

I didn’t know that Ofc the healing aspect of Steadfast Ward(+morphs) scales off both Spell Damage and Max Mag, but are you sure the damage shield itself works the same way?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Of course this is a general rule. Steadfast ward and its morphs from the resto staff are increased by spell Damage.

I didn’t know that Ofc the healing aspect of Steadfast Ward(+morphs) scales off both Spell Damage and Max Mag, but are you sure the damage shield itself works the same way?

yes, i use it all the time on my warden, the ward ally morph so no actual heals, healing ward is the only morph that actually heals, Steadfast ward and its morphs also scale with healing done percentages too( that is blessed from the CP tree, the 5% increase in resto heals with a restoration master passive and the trait powered(9%) .


Come to think of it, the only two wards the game that only scale with max magic are annulment and morphs and conjured Ward and morphs. There are more wards in the game that scale with max health then anything ( sun sheild, igneous Shield, bone Shield)

Mystrius_Archaion

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Actually, the tooltip on your character sheet when you highlight max magicka says "stave weapon damage is based on max magicka".

Also, heals and magicka skill damage does scale with spell damage and max magicka both.
Shields and pets are the odd exception to the rule that has nothing in game saying they are an exception so you have to figure it out, if you even notice a problem, rather than it being obvious and stated in the tooltip like it should be.

Magdalina

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Actually, the tooltip on your character sheet when you highlight max magicka says "stave weapon damage is based on max magicka".

Also, heals and magicka skill damage does scale with spell damage and max magicka both.
Shields and pets are the odd exception to the rule that has nothing in game saying they are an exception so you have to figure it out, if you even notice a problem, rather than it being obvious and stated in the tooltip like it should be.

I believe staves scale - at least used to scale - off both, but with very high preference to spell damage(it has much more of an effect), but don't quote me on that.

And it kind of is an exception, but at this point it's an exception that the game is balanced around. Changing it to "not be an exception" would require heavy re-balancing of those skills that ZOS would likely screw up hardcore like they usually do so it's better to consider this a feature

Vaoh

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Actually, the tooltip on your character sheet when you highlight max magicka says "stave weapon damage is based on max magicka".

Also, heals and magicka skill damage does scale with spell damage and max magicka both.
Shields and pets are the odd exception to the rule that has nothing in game saying they are an exception so you have to figure it out, if you even notice a problem, rather than it being obvious and stated in the tooltip like it should be.

Eh, don’t trust it. You also get “Tips” when you die that tells you to try casting player skills (like Blinding Flashes) which no longer exists in the game. The writing on stuff like that has *never* been updated since the original PC launch. It is a totally different game since then.

I’m sure Staff Light/Heavy attacks used to scale different, but at least since console launch (when I started playing) they only scales off Spell Dmg. Whatever ratio they use to scale with Max Mag is extremely small and totally negligible in builds (apparently they scale at 40/1 as opposed to 10.5/1 according to @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO).

The general rules to follow on this stuff (unless specified otherwise by the tooltip) is:
• Ultimates -> scales off your highest Max and Damage stats (includes Pet Ults)
• Shields and Pets -> scales off Max Magicka
• Staff Light/Heavy Attacks -> scales off Spell Damage, restores Mag
• 1H/S, 2H, DW, Bow Light/Heavy Attacks -> scales off Weapon Damage, restores Stam
• Stam Cost skills -> scales off Max Stamina and Weapon Damage stats
• Mag Cost skills -> scales off Max Magicka and Spell Damage stats

There are plenty of exceptions to this. ESO should really write on each skill how it scales and update all of the writing that has been drastically changed since launch.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Actually

He is wrong on both accounts. I put out the ward thing and did bother to correct him on the light/heavy attack thing because I thought it was common knowledge that they scale at a 40/1 ratio, where most skill are 10.5/1.

Mystrius_Archaion

Vaoh wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

That’s intended.

Damage Shields/Pet Damage only scales off Max Magicka.

Staff Light/Heavy Attacks only scale off Spell Damage.

Actually, the tooltip on your character sheet when you highlight max magicka says "stave weapon damage is based on max magicka".

Also, heals and magicka skill damage does scale with spell damage and max magicka both.
Shields and pets are the odd exception to the rule that has nothing in game saying they are an exception so you have to figure it out, if you even notice a problem, rather than it being obvious and stated in the tooltip like it should be.

Eh, don’t trust it. You also get “Tips” when you die that tells you to try casting player skills (like Blinding Flashes) which no longer exists in the game. The writing on stuff like that has *never* been updated since the original PC launch. It is a totally different game since then.

I’m sure Staff Light/Heavy attacks used to scale different, but at least since console launch (when I started playing) they only scales off Spell Dmg. Whatever ratio they use to scale with Max Mag is extremely small and totally negligible in builds (apparently they scale at 40/1 as opposed to 10.5/1 according to @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO).

The general rules to follow on this stuff (unless specified otherwise by the tooltip) is:
• Ultimates -> scales off your highest Max and Damage stats (includes Pet Ults)
• Shields and Pets -> scales off Max Magicka
• Staff Light/Heavy Attacks -> scales off Spell Damage, restores Mag
• 1H/S, 2H, DW, Bow Light/Heavy Attacks -> scales off Weapon Damage, restores Stam
• Stam Cost skills -> scales off Max Stamina and Weapon Damage stats
• Mag Cost skills -> scales off Max Magicka and Spell Damage stats

There are plenty of exceptions to this. ESO should really write on each skill how it scales and update all of the writing that has been drastically changed since launch.

Then why isn't this a popup explaining this when you press a brightly colored exclamation point on the character sheet? Why is this hidden on the forums that most people don't visit until they've already played quite a while and then has to be searched for so they have to know they are looking for this explanation of an issue they found by expecting the intuitive result and not getting the intuitive result?


My point is that they want us to all be super omniscient like some godly being telling you "if you immediately know the candle light is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago" and asking you to figure it out. Kudos if you get the reference.

Urza1234

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

Power of the light scales only off max stamina. It's not unheard of to have skills that scale only off max stat.

There are also skills that scale only on health.

Most of which, to be fair, are at this point clearly stated. Obsidian shield is an exception to that I guess, are there any other max-health skills that arent explicit?