Random odd questions to Zos ?

victoriana-blue

Try talking about grape jelly in zone chat, just once. Watch all the reactions: the lovers, the haters, the confused, the trolls, all of it. Consider if you're willing to deal with that every time you wear your guild tabard or do a protest.

(Moreover, protesting irl stuff in a social game might not be wrong, but it's certainly rude. We're playing a fantasy game, not a commentary on society, and bringing up irl stuff breaks the unspoken norms/mores of the game. There's a reason trolls like to bring up politics and people roll their eyes about Stonefalls chat, y'know?)

Cloudless

idk wrote: »

If players found it offensive then it could be an issue. Grape jelly, probably not.

I beg to differ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1RkRxnAOs

WeylandLabs

@victoriana-blue Im willing to merely help educate and bring awarness people on ( grape jelly ) that some people like to ingore in real life.

Doesn't matter the haters or trolls or confussed, or lovers. Its all like the real world anyways, the haters ( strawberrys ) the trolls (blueberrys) the lovers ( raspberries ).

I put on a guild tarbard and im automatically judged without no reason. Maybe i am the first to write this and maybe i want to see progress ingame and in the real world.

We are playing a fantasy game correct, and i respect your opinion on this. Unfortunately nobody cannot tell me or others what is rude. By stating facts intellectually in a polite and sophisticated way is not rude at all.

CapnPhoton

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

So let me get this straight a lot of people that play ESO want to ingore real problems in the world why is that ?

If i am not violating any tos why do certain people feel this is harmful to them ? Its just factual real world knowledge that i and other people would be providing. Along with helping people ingame and discussing problems.

Hypothetically people can debate, ridicule and a argue over in game problems they see fit. But we/you or cannot stand for the addressing of real world problems ?

Is it me or is something wrong here, and im seeing a fear peoples lifestyles at risk not facing reality even in a game ?

Perhaps you are taking what people are saying too literally. I don't think people want to ignore real world problems, but for the vast majority, they just want their game time. There are /ignore and report options for a reason, thankfully. However, if you are in zone chat or even group, it may be an issue for you if people don't want to hear it:

From TOS:

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but are not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [i.e., all text in capitals] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [i.e., posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities;

It seems to me, more can be done for a real world cause or some sort of concern...in the real world. What would be the goal and positive result of doing it in game? Make a difference in the real world instead. From memory, these things never stay civil and unheated anyway. If they are disruptive, which they usually are, then they are reportable.

I get involved things to try to make the world a better place all the time with good actions and intentions, etc, but not in game.

Appleblade

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@victoriana-blue Im willing to merely help educate and bring awarness people on ( grape jelly ) that some people like to ingore in real life.

Doesn't matter the haters or trolls or confussed, or lovers. Its all like the real world anyways, the haters ( strawberrys ) the trolls (blueberrys) the lovers ( raspberries ).

I put on a guild tarbard and im automatically judged without no reason. Maybe i am the first to write this and maybe i want to see progress ingame and in the real world.

We are playing a fantasy game correct, and i respect your opinion on this. Unfortunately nobody cannot tell me or others what is rude. By stating facts intellectually in a polite and sophisticated way is not rude at all.

And you keep digging the hole deeper. You’re not interested in debate. You wish to stride amongst the unelightened (according to you) and dispense wisdom and facts (again, according to you), and any disagreement is just hate from the unsophisticated and anti-intellectual, all in a place where people go to get a break from the relentless politicalization of every facet of real life by ideological fanatics who like to pretend they hold some sort of specious moral high ground.

Your fruit based analogies are not fooling anyone.

Elsonso

Appleblade wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@victoriana-blue Im willing to merely help educate and bring awarness people on ( grape jelly ) that some people like to ingore in real life.

Doesn't matter the haters or trolls or confussed, or lovers. Its all like the real world anyways, the haters ( strawberrys ) the trolls (blueberrys) the lovers ( raspberries ).

I put on a guild tarbard and im automatically judged without no reason. Maybe i am the first to write this and maybe i want to see progress ingame and in the real world.

We are playing a fantasy game correct, and i respect your opinion on this. Unfortunately nobody cannot tell me or others what is rude. By stating facts intellectually in a polite and sophisticated way is not rude at all.

Your fruit based analogies are not fooling anyone.

They are fooling me, I guess. I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

All I want to know is whether it is OK for me to believe in (peanut butter) without having to deal with (grape jelly).

WeylandLabs

@CapnPhoton I respectively commend you with your intent to educate me on this matter. However i do have to be literal with my comments, i do not want people to take it out of context. Your copy and paste bolded wording of what you wanted me to read, i feel you maybe misunderstood what i am saying.

I will answer your bolded highlights sir. In order to be disruptive that means I would have the intent to cause damage to norm in any form.

So lets ask what is normal gameplay ? Is it when i lose random a duel and called obscenities. Or maybe when im in cyrodiil trying to communicate with my faction and the entire text chat is vulgar language, spamming emotes. Is this normal gameplay today, because if it is, i can tell you or anybody our cause is 100% not going to be disruptive in any form of gameplay.

By posting the Zos TOS i understand that you were trying to make a statement and a great argument. One small thing you missed on your posting and thats the other paragraph above that one.

ZOS TOS:

Take any action, organize, transmit any Content, effectuate or participate in any activity, group, or guild that is harmful, tortuous, abusive, hateful (including "hate speech"), racially, ethnically, religiously or otherwise offensive, obscene, threatening, bullying, vulgar, sexually explicit, defamatory, libelous, infringing, invasive of personal privacy or publicity rights, encourages conduct that would violate a law or is, in a reasonable person's view, objectionable and/or deemed to be in the sole discretion of ZeniMax inappropriate.

I will not bold it out though.

Appleblade

lordrichter wrote: »

They are fooling me, I guess. I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

All I want to know is whether it is OK for me to believe in (peanut butter) without having to deal with (grape jelly).

But peanut butter and jelly is one of the best combos out there for Stam characters!

Hippie4927

@Shokasegambit1 What is your cause? The fact that you won't say what your cause is, makes me suspicious of you and your cause. Guess that's the cynic in me coming out.

Judas Helviaryn

Appleblade wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@victoriana-blue Im willing to merely help educate and bring awarness people on ( grape jelly ) that some people like to ingore in real life.

Doesn't matter the haters or trolls or confussed, or lovers. Its all like the real world anyways, the haters ( strawberrys ) the trolls (blueberrys) the lovers ( raspberries ).

I put on a guild tarbard and im automatically judged without no reason. Maybe i am the first to write this and maybe i want to see progress ingame and in the real world.

We are playing a fantasy game correct, and i respect your opinion on this. Unfortunately nobody cannot tell me or others what is rude. By stating facts intellectually in a polite and sophisticated way is not rude at all.

And you keep digging the hole deeper. You’re not interested in debate. You wish to stride amongst the unelightened (according to you) and dispense wisdom and facts (again, according to you), and any disagreement is just hate from the unsophisticated and anti-intellectual, all in a place where people go to get a break from the relentless politicalization of every facet of real life by ideological fanatics who like to pretend they hold some sort of specious moral high ground.

Your fruit based analogies are not fooling anyone.

I can only second this. OP isn't the first to operate under this guise on the forum. It's a little painful to watch, because I used to be like this when I was just around 18.

I'm not proud of it, and OP won't be in a few years either.

Pheefs

Hippie4927 wrote: »

@Shokasegambit1 What is your cause? The fact that you won't say what your cause is, makes me suspicious of you and your cause. Guess that's the cynic in me coming out.

Agreed! I sense a trap


but I'll pretend for a minute that this is about something random... I choooooooose..... pencils.
You'd do better to have a Demonstration to Raise Pencil Awareness than a "Pencil Protest"
What is your ultimate purpose, to outreach or to outrage?

There are definitely ways to bring out-world issues into a virtual space and make it interesting & relevant to the members/citizens... like how the Global Relay For Life has a HUGE presence in SecondLife.

WeylandLabs

@Hippie4927 straightforwardness i like that... I will say what it is, as soon at somebody at ZOS can help me understand if this is possible. Or is the TOS going to change again because of my reasoning.

WeylandLabs

Again i appreciate everybody's input

Thank you very much. I have not said nothing that doesn't violate ZOS TOS. I apologize if anybody feels i am trying to ridicule be harmful threatening or impolite within REASON. But i guess i will ridiculed for my ideas instead. Not trying to play the victim, just please be aware of what your saying.

victoriana-blue

Let me try another angle.

Where I'm from, it's rude to bring up topics you know are contentious when you're in public. Things like politics, religion, and human rights are very important and very personal, and even well-intentioned discussions & awareness-raising will start unpleasant arguments (human rights issues are especially difficult because they can end up taking about a group's right to exist and that's really upsetting for group members). Heck, I don't even talk about tattoos around my grandmother because she still associates tattoos with criminals; it would be rude for me to talk about tattoos at dinner - when we're in a mixed social situation - knowing that it would end up in an argument.

There are different mores for different situations. In-person protests, I can walk around if I want; on Twitter I can say whatever I want in my space. Talking about politics in a group that agrees to have a debate is fine; talking about politics in zone is rude, because people can't opt out of the discussion unless they leave zone, and that's really disruptive when someone wants to find a group or discuss the game.

The existence of rude people does not excuse one's own rudeness. Trolling doesn't excuse rudeness. If lots of people are agreeing that something is rude, it's probably rude.

Don't be rude.

ETA: Also, facts can conflict. The sky is blue; the sky is clear and the light scattering only makes it look blue. "Sophisticated" phrasing can be impolite and condescending, depending on the audience. If you want to raise awareness and push your idea of progress, ESO is the wrong place to do it.

Cadbury

lordrichter wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

What is the REAL thing you wanna protest about? NN? Trump? LGBTQ+? Christmas?

Supposedly it is something PC players would not care about, but I am curious, as well.

^this

As a console player, I'm curious if this is something that's even relevant to me. I can't imagine any real life issue that's so vitally important to console players only.

WeylandLabs

@victoriana-blue Thank you again for your concern about this.

Let me point out first that i have not posted anything about the subjects you chose to mirror and, replace it with my ( grape jelly ) that you have stated numerous times previously in your posts. Also the word argument is said a lot and giving me a reason to understand your experience and association with that word.

Let me reasonably please explain the difference.

DEBATE:
More formal, more intellectual normally concerns factual events, or theories.
Concerned with persuading the opposing party to an alternate viewpoint

To argue however is not the same as an arguement. Nor is the logical definition of argue the same as what is commonly referred in public. One can argue the case of XYZ say in law or physics, or one can argue on the street ( in which case bickering would be a more appropriate word ).

ARGUMENTS:
Informal and usually personal, though not always. And not always concerned with the factual correctness it can be about things both parties are aware of, thus no opposing viewpoints. A row between a man and wife who have cheated on each other, would not be a debate, as they are both aware and agree that adultery took place.

In most of the cases of arguments one could substitute another word such as bickering, and various other words. Where debate is concerned, one could use the word arguement, but not words such as bicker.

Debates has methods and arguments does not necessarily. See this isnt really isnt problematic in peoples minds, but there are cues, and distinctions to be made.

You also made a fantastic example about tattoos and your grandmother i agree. I would never at her morale wishes, at her dinner table and talk about something that she would disagree with. Also conflicting views about the scientifical factual evidence about the atmosphere and a persons view on the color i also agree. But i do have to disagree with your view of "If lots of people are agreeing that something is rude, it's probably rude." Quote.

There are a lot of topics and things that people unreasonably agreed with in the vast majority throughout history, and in this current day and age. But that does not necessarily, within reason make them right. I am not pushing any ideas on anybody. Just like this post i have gave an alternative way for you to respectively see your what you have said.

From your perspective do i not make reasonable sense ?

geonsocal

stop being a tease, just come clean - now that you have a captive audience - what is this really about

is this some kind of dunmer/argonian thing?

Cadbury

geonsocal wrote: »

stop being a tease, just come clean - now that you have a captive audience - what is this really about

is this some kind of dunmer/argonian thing?

Something pertaining to us console players, so my guess is something with Sony/MS.

Elsonso

Cadbury wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

stop being a tease, just come clean - now that you have a captive audience - what is this really about

is this some kind of dunmer/argonian thing?

Something pertaining to us console players, so my guess is something with Sony/MS.

I doubt we will ever find out.

geonsocal

Cadbury wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

stop being a tease, just come clean - now that you have a captive audience - what is this really about

is this some kind of dunmer/argonian thing?

Something pertaining to us console players, so my guess is something with Sony/MS.

ah...

not that much in tune with the world outside of sportscenter - are sony and/or microsoft making grape jelly at the expense of other less fortunate folks...

no need to answer, for any corporation of that size it would be pretty near impossible to be sinless...

isn't part of the whole protest thing: not seeking approval...sacrificing yourself to the consequences of your actions, based on your strongly held beliefs...

OP - if you really cared - you wouldn't care...

victoriana-blue

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@victoriana-blue Thank you again for your concern about this.

Let me point out first that i have not posted anything about the subjects you chose to mirror and, replace it with my ( grape jelly ) that you have stated numerous times previously in your posts. Also the word argument is said a lot and giving me a reason to understand your experience and association with that word.

Let me reasonably please explain the difference.

DEBATE:
More formal, more intellectual normally concerns factual events, or theories.
Concerned with persuading the opposing party to an alternate viewpoint

To argue however is not the same as an arguement. Nor is the logical definition of argue the same as what is commonly referred in public. One can argue the case of XYZ say in law or physics, or one can argue on the street ( in which case bickering would be a more appropriate word ).

ARGUMENTS:
Informal and usually personal, though not always. And not always concerned with the factual correctness it can be about things both parties are aware of, thus no opposing viewpoints. A row between a man and wife who have cheated on each other, would not be a debate, as they are both aware and agree that adultery took place.

In most of the cases of arguments one could substitute another word such as bickering, and various other words. Where debate is concerned, one could use the word arguement, but not words such as bicker.

Debates has methods and arguments does not necessarily. See this isnt really isnt problematic in peoples minds, but there are cues, and distinctions to be made.

You also made a fantastic example about tattoos and your grandmother i agree. I would never at her morale wishes, at her dinner table and talk about something that she would disagree with. Also conflicting views about the scientifical factual evidence about the atmosphere and a persons view on the color i also agree. But i do have to disagree with your view of "If lots of people are agreeing that something is rude, it's probably rude." Quote.

There are a lot of topics and things that people unreasonably agreed with in the vast majority throughout history, and in this current day and age. But that does not necessarily, within reason make them right. I am not pushing any ideas on anybody. Just like this post i have gave an alternative way for you to respectively see your what you have said.

From your perspective do i not make reasonable sense ?

Honest question: are you aware how condescending you sound? (I don't know if this a language barrier thing or not.) Instead of asking for clarification you're giving me dictionary definitions of common English words and telling me what I mean, using formal, obfuscating language even though this forum is an informal setting. (Not to mention that those definitions are incomplete: for example, an academic argument is based on facts and can be both civil & pleasant.) This means that while your reply is reasoned, it is not reasonable: it argues semantics instead of discussing the substance of my post, and does so in a way that prioritises logic over exchange or discussion.

From the context of "real life events" in one of your first posts and the phrasing around "jelly," I assumed jelly is code for one of the examples I gave above - politics, human rights, etc - because those are the kinds of things that usually get protested in Canada & the US and which start shitstorms in zone chat. If that's my cultural blinders getting in the way, my bad.

Social norms are group things, not decided by an objective observer, and I don't understand what part of "If lots of people are agreeing that something is rude, it's probably rude" you disagree with. As well, it is possible to be rude while being correct. (I'm using "rude" in the sense of "impolite," not "ignorant" or "rough.") I'm not a fan of jelly, but even if I had some good studies about how awful jelly is it would be rude to go to a meeting of jelly-lovers uninvited and start talking about the health risks of jelly - they'd be correct to throw me out on my ear because their space was for jelly-loving, not hating, and I'd be going against the norms & standards of their space. Likewise, ESO is a place for gaming & socializing between lots of people, including people who are wrong. It's easier to be polite and kind if contentious issues are avoided; intentionally bringing irl issues into the game makes it harder for everyone to put aside their differences and interferes with our enjoyment of the game.

(I'm still assuming good faith, but interacting with trolls can be fun too. ┐(´∇｀)┌ )

WeylandLabs

@victoriana-blue Hello again,


It seems that you maybe frustrated at me, and I apologize if you or anybody feels that way. My intentions is just to know if i can peacefully protest.

I was trying to have a pleasent debate about how you were using the word "argument" in social dynamics. The copy and paste method in your case is very noticable, it shows frustration a bit. I suggest to be original in examples btw. And of course, it is not complete because i did not state the following verbatim. I gave an orginal debatable example. Your argument is based on saying i was and qoute.

"you're giving me dictionary definitions of common English words and telling me what I mean, using formal, obfuscating language even though this forum is an informal setting."

However it can also be respectively formal, as that is not against ZOS forum TOS.

Please understand i am not trying to make you or anybody feel inferior. I simply just want to know the main statment matter above.

Also your assumptions of understanding how arguments and helping you understand my viewpoint maybe semi flawed. And has to do with your individual morals rather than social dynamics and an educational barrier.

I would also like to point out your quote.

"ESO is a place for gaming & socializing between lots of people, including people who are wrong. It's easier to be polite and kind if contentious issues are avoided; intentionally bringing irl issues into the game makes it harder for everyone to put aside their differences and interferes with our enjoyment of the game."

Now as i partially agree with this, but a contradiction is being made with. "Including people who are wrong" Let me take an example such as online bullying. It is wrong and against ZOS policy, but yet it happens every day in eso. We have all seen it in chat and people decides to do nothing. Because why ? Its is the norm ? It shouldn't be but it is. I feel that maybe the difference between you and me. I stand up for what i believe in EVERY aspect of my life.


Your last comment about your good faith and trolls. Goodtalk

Unfortunately i cannot take your statments serious enough now, due to the plagiarized sentences in your comment. And lack of own self debatable thoughts on this matter.

Hippie4927

It is starting to sound like the OP is writing a paper for Sociology class or something. Are we being tested?

Merlin13KAGL

If it impeded someone else's gameplay in some manner, I'd say no.

With that out of the way:

1. Give us an example of some protest-worthy in game thing, please.
2. What are you going to do, RP someone to death?

Minyassa

I will just simplify what I said before.

There are appropriate places for real life hotbutton issues.

Open forum environments where people are there purposefully to discuss real life matters would be an appropriate place.

A game where people are there to focus on the game is not the appropriate place.

WeylandLabs

@Merlin13KAGL I can say It would follow all ZOS TOS in the game, and is reasonable.

Also I would love to give an example of protesting real life events in a game. Unfortunately nobody has ever done this before and I guess I am the first. So i am just trying to find common ground and different views on this.

I understand that people don't want to see certain things in the game that has to do with real life events because they are playing that game for a reason.

However there are people that want to see certain awareness issues in real life events that also play games.

@Minyassa Hotbutton issues ?

Im sorry im looking at a lot of angles in comments to try and bring out my purpose to peacefully protest in the game. By trying to redirect me to another forum to alienate my view purposely is not helping. And very impolite as i see it. A game that i play, that people violate ZOS-tos everyday shouldn't be the appropriate place. But when i say i would like to peacefully protest within ZOS-tos guidelines in the game.

I get ridiculed and mocked, i do understand the difference between what people are saying in language as a joke and when i am being made fun of. Making a valid point is great, but looking at your argument and true purpose is invalid.

victoriana-blue

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

@victoriana-blue Hello again,


It seems that you maybe frustrated at me, and I apologize if you or anybody feels that way. My intentions is just to know if i can peacefully protest.

I was trying to have a pleasent debate about how you were using the word "argument" in social dynamics. The copy and paste method in your case is very noticable, it shows frustration a bit. I suggest to be original in examples btw. And of course, it is not complete because i did not state the following verbatim. I gave an orginal debatable example. Your argument is based on saying i was and qoute.

"you're giving me dictionary definitions of common English words and telling me what I mean, using formal, obfuscating language even though this forum is an informal setting."

However it can also be respectively formal, as that is not against ZOS forum TOS.

Please understand i am not trying to make you or anybody feel inferior. I simply just want to know the main statment matter above.

Also your assumptions of understanding how arguments and helping you understand my viewpoint maybe semi flawed. And has to do with your individual morals rather than social dynamics and an educational barrier.

I would also like to point out your quote.

"ESO is a place for gaming & socializing between lots of people, including people who are wrong. It's easier to be polite and kind if contentious issues are avoided; intentionally bringing irl issues into the game makes it harder for everyone to put aside their differences and interferes with our enjoyment of the game."

Now as i partially agree with this, but a contradiction is being made with. "Including people who are wrong" Let me take an example such as online bullying. It is wrong and against ZOS policy, but yet it happens every day in eso. We have all seen it in chat and people decides to do nothing. Because why ? Its is the norm ? It shouldn't be but it is. I feel that maybe the difference between you and me. I stand up for what i believe in EVERY aspect of my life.


Your last comment about your good faith and trolls. Goodtalk

Unfortunately i cannot take your statments serious enough now, due to the plagiarized sentences in your comment. And lack of own self debatable thoughts on this matter.

Tone on the internet, a difficult thing!

If you want a debate you should say that in the first post: wanting a debate and wanting information are (obviously) two different things, so no wonder you aren't getting the kind of interactions you expected.

I'm not particularly frustrated, just trying to be helpful in case you're not aware of how you're coming across. I seriously cannot tell if you're ESL or a student, because you're misusing concepts and rhetorical strategies in a way that was really common in the undergraduate classes I taught. Either way, I'm trying to help. /shrug

What do you mean by "copy-paste method?" Reiterating a point =/= copying or plagiarizing.

As I said a few comments ago, the existence of trolls doesn't excuse rudeness, and that includes trolls who bully. Yes, it happens, but being common isn't the same as being a norm.

victoriana-blue

Hippie4927 wrote: »

It is starting to sound like the OP is writing a paper for Sociology class or something. Are we being tested?

Heh, I've been thinking OP sounds like someone who has just discovered ~Philosophy~(TM). Maybe we're being used for a project?

kylewwefan

Why do Khajit like pumpkins?

geonsocal