macro slicing /animation cancel

mook-eb16_ESO

would any one else like to see this go? ok it nice for pvers to be able to do lots of dps but surely there has be a better way implement the actions than current. $In pvp you have some character who just stands in front of you makes no movement then your dead for 30k, its anti gaming you need addon to tell when to do stuff. would be so nice to actually have a fight where you had visual clues of what people are doing instead to counter. visually it just looks stupid its no epic at all. There's still a lot of good stuff in eso just a shame combat is not really well realized.

Phelaen

i agree

jkolb2030

For one - what you are describing as "macro slicing" is not actually anything to do with animation cancelling..

Macro slicing is lag on the game client side that makes you get stuck in a certain animation while still registering the inputs of any other skills you press during said lag.. At the end, they all come out at once simultaneously resulting in your 30k death recap.

i personally do not mind animation cancelling, and dont find it to be the reason for me dying in PvP..

Foxic

jkolb2030 wrote: »

For one - what you are describing as "macro slicing" is not actually anything to do with animation cancelling..

Macro slicing is lag on the game client side that makes you get stuck in a certain animation while still registering the inputs of any other skills you press during said lag.. At the end, they all come out at once simultaneously resulting in your 30k death recap.

i personally do not mind animation cancelling, and dont find it to be the reason for me dying in PvP..

Exactly. I'm getting awfully tired of these threads where ignorant or uninformed players say they can get attacked many times at once with animation cancelling

SirAndy

jkolb2030 wrote: »

For one - what you are describing as "macro slicing" is not actually anything to do with animation cancelling..
Macro slicing is lag on the game client side that makes you get stuck in a certain animation while still registering the inputs of any other skills you press during said lag.. At the end, they all come out at once simultaneously resulting in your 30k death recap.

The problem is that ESO's client/server code allows *you* to create lag for the other players around you.

Those who know how to do that have a distinct advantage ...

DHale

No, animation cancelling is a sign of skill acquired after considerable practice. You should acquire the skill and get better or not pvp. Otherwise you can join EP and Zerg around in groups of thirty and then t bag that person while thinking you are good. Oh... my bad I sorta got off topic.

VaranisArano

Animation Canceling and Macro Slicing aren't the same thing. Are you sure you know what you are complaining about?

As I understand it, Macros allow certain key press combinations to be automated - that's why they're banned by the TOS and you are free to report the players you think are using them. Successful Animation Cancellers actually do press all the keys, so its allowed by ZOS (its a feature, not a bug).

Further complicating the matter is Cyrodiil's everpresent lag, which can make it look like a bunch of abilities hit at once. I've died to 5 cliff races in about 1 second from the same person before, but I'm 99.99% positive that it was lag on my end, not the enemy player.

Gilvoth

i agree with you that animation canceling should not exist here in eso, and the people using macro are also cheating the system and getting away with it and zenimax allows this.

but i also think that the only thing this thread is going to do is bring out allot of people who will do anything, say anything, write anything on this thread to make it look as if there is nothing wrong with animation canceling and that macro, and hyper macro usage does not even exist in eso pvp.

VaranisArano

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i agree with you that animation canceling should not exist here in eso, and the people using macro are also cheating the system and getting away with it and zenimax allows this.

but i also think that the only thing this thread is going to do is bring out allot of people who will do anything, say anything, write anything on this thread to make it look as if there is nothing wrong with animation canceling and that macro, and hyper macro usage does not even exist in eso pvp.

Animation cancelling exists. ZOS can't figure out how to stop it, so they've allowed it. Deal with it.

Macros are against the TOS so this is actually cheating. If you see someone you think is using one, report them so ZOS can investigate. You probably won't see the end results because ZOS doesn't work that way.

KRBMMO

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i agree with you that animation canceling should not exist here in eso, and the people using macro are also cheating the system and getting away with it and zenimax allows this.

but i also think that the only thing this thread is going to do is bring out allot of people who will do anything, say anything, write anything on this thread to make it look as if there is nothing wrong with animation canceling and that macro, and hyper macro usage does not even exist in eso pvp.

I guess ultimately the main problem is that some games have the ability to detect keypressses that are repeated at exactly the same interval down to the millionth of a second, but ESO doesn't not have this capability and can't even contemplate implementing it with lag as bad as it already is.

Gilvoth

KRBMMO wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i agree with you that animation canceling should not exist here in eso, and the people using macro are also cheating the system and getting away with it and zenimax allows this.

but i also think that the only thing this thread is going to do is bring out allot of people who will do anything, say anything, write anything on this thread to make it look as if there is nothing wrong with animation canceling and that macro, and hyper macro usage does not even exist in eso pvp.

I guess ultimately the main problem is that some games have the ability to detect keypressses that are repeated at exactly the same interval down to the millionth of a second, but ESO doesn't not have this capability and can't even contemplate implementing it with lag as bad as it already is.

that sounds reasonable and believable.
but like i said this thread will be filled with comments trying to prove it doesnt even exist.
they are addicted to doing it and it really is the only way they can play PvP.
hyper animation canceling along with hyper macro usage.

Gilvoth

and just to answer ahead of the question i am sure will be asked by some one, i am going to go ahead and both ask the question and also answer it best i can.
Q: what is hyper animation canceling along with hyper macro usage in pvp?

A:
hyper animation canceling along with hyper macro usage is when keys on the keyboard, mouse, or game pad used in eso are animated by a computer program to react within multi millionth of a seconds reaction so fast that it is not even possible to see the actions taking place in the battle field.
i have a few pictures here to show some of what it may look like and i also have videos of it happening but if i display them here on this forum it will be called out and reported for naming and shaming, so all i can give to represent what it may look like is these 2 GIF's below.

VaranisArano

And there, in your example, the problem is the Macro which is against TOS, not the animation cancelling which is allowed by ZOS because its an unintended feature they can't remove so they okayed it.

So report the macro user and learn to live with the animation cancelling.

Zordrage

VaranisArano wrote: »

And there, in your example, the problem is the Macro which is against TOS, not the animation cancelling which is allowed by ZOS because its an unintended feature they can't remove so they okayed it.

So report the macro user and learn to live with the animation cancelling.

the animation cancelling is what really allows this whole super fast macro crap..

and ZoS CAN fix it they just don't want to because money and time or just outright lazyness...

Juhasow

Seriously some people got stucked in 2014...

Savos_Saren

Animation Cancelling wouldn't be so bad if EVERY class had its own abilities/skills that they could cancel to the same effect/damage as other classes.

We all know that stam builds can use very powerful animation cancelling combos with a 2H weapon.

...what the equivalently powerful animation cancelling attack that an mDK can do? If any certain builds can't benefit from animation cancelling the same way that other builds can- then it's not a fair gameplay tactic.

ak_pvp

Animation cancelling can only meld light attacks/blocks/bashes/rolls and swaps into abilities. It cannot change how abilities hit due to GLOBAL COOLDOWN. Nothing in game, not animation cancelling, not even macros can surpass this.

A macro slice has nothing to do with macros itself, Just the fact that when it is used it makes it look as if macros are being used within another game. Its due to lag.

Vapirko

Macro slice is a bug/exploit. The easiest way is to spam crit charge until your toon is stuck with the sword over their shoulder. Then queue up some other moves and wait till it unleashes. Imo video evidence of that should be bannable. Unfortunately it does happen by accident sometimes so proving intention is hard.

ak_pvp

Vapirko wrote: »

Macro slice is a bug/exploit. The easiest way is to spam crit charge until your toon is stuck with the sword over their shoulder. Then queue up some other moves and wait till it unleashes. Imo video evidence of that should be bannable. Unfortunately it does happen by accident sometimes so proving intention is hard.

From the other persons viewpoint its not a macroslice iirc.

Biro123

It was tested a while back. The target saw skills firing normally. Only the attacker saw the stuck animation.
There's a thread here detailing it with video evidence, but I'm sure you've seen it and decided to ignore it.

Honestly, I havnt seen this happen for a long, long time.

I have seen lag, where everything freezes up for a couple of seconds. And by everything, I mean all players on screen, then it instantly catches up and you get hit with multiple attacks at the same time.
I think this is an overloaded server. It gets a glut of processing to do in a short time, probably due to a large scale fight with lots of aoes to calculate.. Abilities queue up waiting to process, and by the time the server gets over that glut, to process these queued abilities, it sees the timestamp on them telling the server that they should have already fired, so it fires the all at once.

Server lag. Just learn to live with it.

Gilvoth

Zordrage wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

And there, in your example, the problem is the Macro which is against TOS, not the animation cancelling which is allowed by ZOS because its an unintended feature they can't remove so they okayed it.

So report the macro user and learn to live with the animation cancelling.

the animation cancelling is what really allows this whole super fast macro crap..

and ZoS CAN fix it they just don't want to.

that is correct.
we don't know the reasons why, but we do know they have not corrected it.
it is my belief they have not fixed it because they don't know how, or that the code for all forms of fighting would have to be re-written.

Biro123

Its obvious why they havnt fixed it.

If blocking or dodging had to wait for your animation to finish, you'd never be able to reactively block or dodge anything.
It would ruin the whole 'active defence' gameplay.

idk

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

would any one else like to see this go? ok it nice for pvers to be able to do lots of dps but surely there has be a better way implement the actions than current. $In pvp you have some character who just stands in front of you makes no movement then your dead for 30k, its anti gaming you need addon to tell when to do stuff. would be so nice to actually have a fight where you had visual clues of what people are doing instead to counter. visually it just looks stupid its no epic at all. There's still a lot of good stuff in eso just a shame combat is not really well realized.

I suggest recording that. A player just standing their with no movement yet still kills you. That would have to require some sort of cheat engine and would have nothing to do with animation canceling.

Even with lag one would still notice movement of the other character at some point. Additionally, any action that would occur after the first skill used would have a required minimum 1 second delay with the GCD hard codes into every instant skill.

Also, as some have pointed out, with the active defense design we have in ESO if animation canceling was removed it would cause a big mess with the defensive game play and guaranteed it would lead to more deaths for OP, and many others.

But again, OP's suggestion of what he/she has experienced is very unlikely. 30k damage and zero movement from the attacker just does not describe animation canceling and whatever he means by macro slicing.

MehrunesFlagon

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

and just to answer ahead of the question i am sure will be asked by some one, i am going to go ahead and both ask the question and also answer it best i can.
Q: what is hyper animation canceling along with hyper macro usage in pvp?

A:
hyper animation canceling along with hyper macro usage is when keys on the keyboard, mouse, or game pad used in eso are animated by a computer program to react within multi millionth of a seconds reaction so fast that it is not even possible to see the actions taking place in the battle field.
i have a few pictures here to show some of what it may look like and i also have videos of it happening but if i display them here on this forum it will be called out and reported for naming and shaming, so all i can give to represent what it may look like is these 2 GIF's below.

a macro will not bybass the global cooldown.

ihazzit

[/quote]

But again, OP's suggestion of what he/she has experienced is very unlikely. 30k damage and zero movement from the attacker just does not describe animation canceling and whatever he means by macro slicing.[/quote]

I agree with you here as this happened to me in PvE and that is not animation canceling nor macro slicing. To your point, I was playing solo in a group instance boss fight and for a couple seconds nothing was moving, my character was away and on the side of the boss who was facing my combat pet, then suddenly I got the blue screen of git gud with the boss directly in front of me and the recap showed damage that never animated on the screen. Yesterday I took an alt through Reaper's to get to Hircine's shrine and the whole way it was a 1 sec gallop and sound followed by 1 sec of jittery lag, repeat the whole way, but then in Hircine's realm there were no problems. I leave Hircine's and jittery lag starts again.

I usually have very little occurrences of that happening save a few times in PvP where there was a mess of action and that was months ago. I played at the peak times in all of the past events since April and never had a single issue, however, since the start of the New Life event I've experienced some serious lag/jitter - even in the non-peak hours (10 pm est pc-EU) - that has made the game very difficult to play.

So I tend to think as others stated here that it might be a coding and server issue that is part of the problem. Apart from user hardware, it seems in certain instances the algorithms used to develop accurate latency produce inaccurate latency at best where there is plausible high server usage maybe couple with the fact that ZOS simply cannot handle the increase of traffic from an ISP point of view.

KanedaSyndrome

Would love to see animation cancelling gone. It was originally a bug that got promoted to a "feature" when ZOS gave up on fixing it. Same thing with the infinite sprint on mounts.

Gilvoth

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Would love to see animation cancelling gone. It was originally a bug that got promoted to a "feature" when ZOS gave up on fixing it. Same thing with the infinite sprint on mounts.

well said! it is true but many that use it love to defend it and claim it is an intended action. but you are correct that "it is not"

Dragath

Macros can't ignore the GCD of Light Attacks and Abilities.
Animation Cancelling is needed to some degree to make sure you can stop an Ability to Block/Dodge.
Light Attack weaving makes the Combat a bit more interesting and is quite easy to learn.
Macro Slicing is a bug, but it doesn't store all the Attacks and releases them together. You just don't see them happening, which is annoying and should get fixed.
Light Attack Weaving was not intended and is a consequence of the fact that ESO was using a Auto-Attack System like WoW in its early Alpha Stage. This was then changed to the System we now have, which doesn't allow a "fix" for the issue.

James-Wayne

Animation canceling should go because here in Australia on a ping of 450+ you cant ever do animation canceling so to make it fair across the globe this needs to be fixed.

Dragath

James-Wayne wrote: »

Animation canceling should go because here in Australia on a ping of 450+ you cant ever do animation canceling so to make it fair across the globe this needs to be fixed.

if you start arguing like that, you open a can of worms.
some people have bad pcs.
some people have bad eyes.
some people have slow reactions.
we are all different and we all have different issues.

Gilvoth

James-Wayne wrote: »

Animation canceling should go because here in Australia on a ping of 450+ you cant ever do animation canceling so to make it fair across the globe this needs to be fixed.

Amen, and Well said!