Stamina Trial Weapon Testing

Masel

Hello fellow ESO-Players, it's time for an analysis of trial weapons for stamina DPS as i have all weapons i need for it on the live server now, including two perfected asylum daggers:

First of all, concerning my methodology:

I did 9 robust dummy parses on all four setups, and then took the median parse out of these to actually show the average dps i got and rule out crit luck.

The general setup i based all this on:



And the median damage:



My rotation was to just light attack weave all skills on the bow bar, and heavy attack weave all skills on the front bar and cast ballista whenever it is ready.

So standard stuff, i used dubious throne for the robust dummy tests in order to be able to infinitely sustain.

Now the first test i did was the perfected asylum DW weapons, i changed the setup to the following:



And got this median damage as a result:



I altered my rotation in the way that i put flawless dawnbreaker on the back bar, rend on the front bar and every second rotation when i wouldve been casting rending slashes and blade cloak, i used two steel tornadoes instead.

So comparing the two parses, we can see that they single target damage is similar, so the asylum dual wield is not worse than a standard setup, which is good news! But on top of similar damage, asylum dual wield actually has more AoE due to more steel tornado casts in your rotation, but also a lot more selfhealing due to the strong uptime on rend.

As a third parse, i did use dual master daggers instead of asylum daggers:



Now here we see that the flat damage increase from the master daggers is significant, BUT it is not as much of a DPS-increase as the asylum daggers or the standard setup with Automaton and Sunder.

Last and sadly least, i tried out Maelstrom Daggers:




In order to test these, i had to change the setup a lot:

As you cannot empower Ballista, i switched to rend again and used rapid strikes instead of steel tornado. As posion injection is STILL BUGGED and consumes cruel flurry on every tick, i had to leave it out in order to actually get reliable results, you can technically add about 2k dps from the injection that we now miss here. on the front bar i heavy attack weaved rapid strikes, then used rending slashes to empower it immediately, heavy attack weave rapid strikes and then use trap, heavy attack weave blade cloak. If i had rend ready, i included a light attack weave rapid strikes > rend, and then blade cloak before going back to the bow bar.


So TL;DR

Perfected Asylum Dual wield is actually not bad, if you need more selfheals and have a bossfight with adds, you can definetely use them, rend will outparse ballista with these weapons, especially with multiple targets hit (thinking of vHoF 4th Boss). But I still think that they should actually outparse a standard setup.

Master Weapons are still too weak, sadly, to compete. Even in single target (which they should excel at) they get outparsed by Asylum weapons and the standard 2 5piece setup.

Maelstrom weapons are bugged, and even if they werent, they underperform as you simply cannot sustain it without sacrificing too much. As of now, fixing them and actually putting the weapon damage back to 3000 OR making them empower all debuff dots within a certain timeframe would be beneficial.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

SaintSubwayy

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Masel

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

SaintSubwayy

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

they arent as bad as we thougt they'll be yes, but they're not great (compared to old vMA daggers)
maybe if you use DW ulti, it will come close. but most ppl use Dawnbreaker on their DW bar for the Weapondmg buff.

I agree that the Perfected daggers are great to keep your debuffs up (Twin shlashes, Deadly Cloack and Rend if you use DW ult)
however the problem with them is, that ppl who are really good at their rotation dont get as much from the duration increase those dagger provide.

I personally would prefer a Monsterset over those 2 Daggers beacause i dont need the increased duration on my Twin slashes or deadly Cloack (i dont use Rend as a DK). And i get 2 Setbonis from a Monsterset.

kojou

Considering Parse 1 Includes 5 piece VO, and Asylum didn't add any DPS then I would take 5 VO, 5 Sunderflame, over 3 VO, 2 Asylum, 5 Sunderflame.

My reasoning would be that VO would give you better stamina sustain. Not that heavy attack stamina builds need that much help with sustain, but there are situations where you get drained, or are doing a lot of AoE. Also, it complicates the rotation for no significant gain in DPS. If I have to deal with a more complicated rotation I want some DPS gain for it.

I kind of agree with you on the VMA dual wield except I don't want them to be BiS, so I don't have to run VMA anymore.

At least that is my 2 cents...

Masel

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

they arent as bad as we thougt they'll be yes, but they're not great (compared to old vMA daggers)
maybe if you use DW ulti, it will come close. but most ppl use Dawnbreaker on their DW bar for the Weapondmg buff.

I agree that the Perfected daggers are great to keep your debuffs up (Twin shlashes, Deadly Cloack and Rend if you use DW ult)
however the problem with them is, that ppl who are really good at their rotation dont get as much from the duration increase those dagger provide.

I personally would prefer a Monsterset over those 2 Daggers beacause i dont need the increased duration on my Twin slashes or deadly Cloack (i dont use Rend as a DK). And i get 2 Setbonis from a Monsterset.

I'm gonna do a 2 5p+ Perfected asylum set parse and see what that is gonna do under the same circumstances. I think it might be better than using a Monsterset after all. In dungeons where monsters don't live long enough I wouldn't use them, but in a trial scenario it might be very very useful.

SaintSubwayy

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

they arent as bad as we thougt they'll be yes, but they're not great (compared to old vMA daggers)
maybe if you use DW ulti, it will come close. but most ppl use Dawnbreaker on their DW bar for the Weapondmg buff.

I agree that the Perfected daggers are great to keep your debuffs up (Twin shlashes, Deadly Cloack and Rend if you use DW ult)
however the problem with them is, that ppl who are really good at their rotation dont get as much from the duration increase those dagger provide.

I personally would prefer a Monsterset over those 2 Daggers beacause i dont need the increased duration on my Twin slashes or deadly Cloack (i dont use Rend as a DK). And i get 2 Setbonis from a Monsterset.

I'm gonna do a 2 5p+ Perfected asylum set parse and see what that is gonna do under the same circumstances. I think it might be better than using a Monsterset after all. In dungeons where monsters don't live long enough I wouldn't use them, but in a trial scenario it might be very very useful.

maybe its better then a monsterset, try it out.
IMO it really depends on you average uptimes of Cloak and Twin Slashes. Aswell as it depends on the class you're playing.
on a Stamsorc, NB or Stamplar they are "more viable" then on a DK, which has no spammable.

Masel

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Considering Parse 1 Includes 5 piece VO, and Asylum didn't add any DPS then I would take 5 VO, 5 Sunderflame, over 3 VO, 2 Asylum, 5 Sunderflame.

My reasoning would be that VO would give you better stamina sustain. Not that heavy attack stamina builds need that much help with sustain, but there are situations where you get drained, or are doing a lot of AoE. Also, it complicates the rotation for no significant gain in DPS. If I have to deal with a more complicated rotation I want some DPS gain for it.

I kind of agree with you on the VMA dual wield except I don't want them to be BiS, so I don't have to run VMA anymore.

At least that is my 2 cents...

The first parse doesn't include 5 VO, it includes 5 sunder and 5 automaton, which is the setup that nets me the highest single target damage overall. 2 asylum+3 VO nets you the same dps as 5 automaton, which is pretty nice after all.

jakeedmundson

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

Nice write up and info...i have to agree most with that last sentence.

Its EXTREMELY disappointing to have farmed soooo long to get maelstrom weapons with good traits just to find out they get nerfed to death. Those parses above show almost a 3k difference and STILL with sustain problems.

People paid for that content... we worked hard to earn the rewards... and look what happened. Maelstrom is easily the most difficult farming in the game. Not just the content itself.. but the RNG of the rewards.

Masel

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

they arent as bad as we thougt they'll be yes, but they're not great (compared to old vMA daggers)
maybe if you use DW ulti, it will come close. but most ppl use Dawnbreaker on their DW bar for the Weapondmg buff.

I agree that the Perfected daggers are great to keep your debuffs up (Twin shlashes, Deadly Cloack and Rend if you use DW ult)
however the problem with them is, that ppl who are really good at their rotation dont get as much from the duration increase those dagger provide.

I personally would prefer a Monsterset over those 2 Daggers beacause i dont need the increased duration on my Twin slashes or deadly Cloack (i dont use Rend as a DK). And i get 2 Setbonis from a Monsterset.

I'm gonna do a 2 5p+ Perfected asylum set parse and see what that is gonna do under the same circumstances. I think it might be better than using a Monsterset after all. In dungeons where monsters don't live long enough I wouldn't use them, but in a trial scenario it might be very very useful.

maybe its better then a monsterset, try it out.
IMO it really depends on you average uptimes of Cloak and Twin Slashes. Aswell as it depends on the class you're playing.
on a Stamsorc, NB or Stamplar they are "more viable" then on a DK, which has no spammable.

Actually they are more viable on a DK and a Sorc than the others because they actually have a slot to put them on.

On DK, Noxious breath is a very weak dot that you don't need and Slotting steel tornado does more damage than it even if casting it once per rotation. Stamblades and stamplars have good spamables and should be using war machine with a cheap ultimate anyway.

SaintSubwayy

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please fix Maelstrom Weapons and consider making the Master Weapons even stronger. DoTs are not that dangerous in PvP, so that wouldnt be bad at all.

ehm...you never fought a Stam Sorc with bleed build?
he's gona drain you like a vampire
Buffing the Master Dagger even more would end in Ridicoulus high Bleeddmg.
The "Problem" if you so will is that bleeddmg isnt affected by Resistances, and the blooddrinker set, which boosts Bleeddmg by 20%.

IF they should buff those daggers even more, then Bleed needs to be reduced by Resistances.

to the Perfected Daggers...
Well since stamina is more or less a Single Target playstyle (atm) the steeltornado isnt that great, and IMO loosing a 5pcs bonus for those daggers is just not worth it. A 5,5,2 setup still outperforms the vAS daggers.

Did you read the post? I literally compared a monster set+2 5p to the asylum daggers and both lead to the same mean dps. Also you can use 2 5-piece sets and asylum daggers to get out even more. Asylum daggers will likely net you more dps than a monster set

they arent as bad as we thougt they'll be yes, but they're not great (compared to old vMA daggers)
maybe if you use DW ulti, it will come close. but most ppl use Dawnbreaker on their DW bar for the Weapondmg buff.

I agree that the Perfected daggers are great to keep your debuffs up (Twin shlashes, Deadly Cloack and Rend if you use DW ult)
however the problem with them is, that ppl who are really good at their rotation dont get as much from the duration increase those dagger provide.

I personally would prefer a Monsterset over those 2 Daggers beacause i dont need the increased duration on my Twin slashes or deadly Cloack (i dont use Rend as a DK). And i get 2 Setbonis from a Monsterset.

I'm gonna do a 2 5p+ Perfected asylum set parse and see what that is gonna do under the same circumstances. I think it might be better than using a Monsterset after all. In dungeons where monsters don't live long enough I wouldn't use them, but in a trial scenario it might be very very useful.

maybe its better then a monsterset, try it out.
IMO it really depends on you average uptimes of Cloak and Twin Slashes. Aswell as it depends on the class you're playing.
on a Stamsorc, NB or Stamplar they are "more viable" then on a DK, which has no spammable.

Actually they are more viable on a DK and a Sorc than the others because they actually have a slot to put them on.

On DK, Noxious breath is a very weak dot that you don't need and Slotting steel tornado does more damage than it even if casting it once per rotation. Stamblades and stamplars have good spamables and should be using war machine with a cheap ultimate anyway.

Well yes, noxious breath isnt a good dot, but when you attack a boss, which cannot be debufft by a tank (vHof 4th boss, for example. adds ect.) its better to get a Breath on them than a tornado, very situational. (with Morag tong in the grp Noxious Breath is as strong as Twin slashes)

The reason i had in mind is that when you use steeltornado to increase the duration, then you'd get 1 skill free during your rotation, which cannot be filled with a spamable, due to dk not having a stamina spamable.