Im not a tank if I dont use S/B, LULZ welcome to video games...

T4T2FR34K

...there are many ways to tank...one of them being S/B.

Defilted

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

Morvane

I'm tired with frost staff tank experiments, new ways to be tank? Bow tank, 2h tank, unarmed tank? No, thnx, and return pls Frost staff to dps

CaffeinatedMayhem

Defilted wrote: »

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

This. Don't forget to crack armor too - lowering phys/spell resist really helps DPS.

Sadly, in ESO, the only skill that does all three (taunt, lower phys resist, and lower spell resist) is pierce armor, a S/B skill. It's not a "video games" thing, it's an ESO thing.

T4T2FR34K

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

This. Don't forget to crack armor too - lowering phys/spell resist really helps DPS.

Sadly, in ESO, the only skill that does all three (taunt, lower phys resist, and lower spell resist) is pierce armor, a S/B skill. It's not a "video games" thing, it's an ESO thing.

No it is a video game thing...the ONLY thing you need to do is hold agro...via, taunts, dps, etc...AND not die in the process.

Defilted wrote: »

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

EXACTLY, thank you!! +1

ajcorbell

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

This. Don't forget to crack armor too - lowering phys/spell resist really helps DPS.

Sadly, in ESO, the only skill that does all three (taunt, lower phys resist, and lower spell resist) is pierce armor, a S/B skill. It's not a "video games" thing, it's an ESO thing.

No it is a video game thing...the ONLY thing you need to do is hold agro...via, taunts, dps, etc...AND not die in the process.

The only thing you need to tank, sure. The only thing you need to tank well? Not so much.

T4T2FR34K

Ughh...right, like the tank that taunts and shield blocks is "better" than the tank who taunts AND does DPS...hmmm...don't think so, next...

ajcorbell

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Ughh...right, like the tank that taunts and shield blocks is "better" than the tank who taunts AND does DPS...hmmm...don't think so, next...

The tank who taunts, debuffs the target and buffs his group is the best kind of tank.

coop500

Sadly with how this game is, Sword and Shield is pretty much required to be a good tank, though you can be a decent tank with anything as long as you have inner fire taunt/frost staff heavy attacks, you'll need to work harder to be a good tank this way.

People underestimate debuffs and CC, DPS is not the only important thing in the game, buffs, debuffs and CC help the DPS land more hits, yes, but it doesn't mean you have to do DPS yourself nor will it be better if you ignore giving debuffs and CC to throw in your DPS.

coop500

Let me boil down the 3 main tank choices, regardless of equipment.

A basic tank: Taunts and keeps boss still
A good tank: Taunts, keeps boss still, CCs adds and debuffs boss
A off-tank: Taunts, keeps boss still, then focuses on DPS

Samadhi

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Defilted wrote: »

As long as you can taunt a boss and not die after doing it, then you can tank in dungeons.

This. Don't forget to crack armor too - lowering phys/spell resist really helps DPS.

Sadly, in ESO, the only skill that does all three (taunt, lower phys resist, and lower spell resist) is pierce armor, a S/B skill. It's not a "video games" thing, it's an ESO thing.

So tired of Sword and Board tanks with their 1-button iTank key


For serious tho,
personally have come to feel that the Crusher enchantment is more valuable
because it is unlikely anyone else in the group will provide that
whereas Major Breach comes from any healer (or potentially yourself, if using Frost Staff) applying Elemental Drain
and Fracture can come off of a Stam DPS (DK, Warden or NB) depending on their rotation
Hell, a Stam Warden with Subterranean Assault is applying both debuffs
so team composition can play into this

Sword and Board is a 'safe' bet when using the Finder to group up with randoms

there is certainly fair concern to be given with regards to the most valuable resource in the game (skill slot availability) when not in a group where someone else is debuffing tho
For instance, a Nightblade tank running ice staff for a taunt (and maybe Wall of Frost for AoE Maim and Immobilize chance) + unconventional weapon
let's say...Dual Wield, stacking heal-on-damage skills to mitigate load on the healer
either needs to run Mark Target in an extra slot,
or have Surprise Attack in rotation and an Ice Staff for Elemental Drain on the back bar
it is less neat than a single sword-jab, but it can be functional

but this does play into a couple of other factors that make tanking feel less flexible
Pierce Armour feels like the only morph worth considering, because taking Ransack for a minor Armour buff means having to slot a second skill for Breach
and then the significant cost difference between Pierce Armour and the Undaunted taunt which makes only one of the two really viable for picking up a bunch of trash
also compared to Frost Staff having a cast time on heavy attacks making taunting groups more cumbersome than just spinning around hammering a single key to taunt all the things

r3turn2s3nd3r

coop500 wrote: »

People underestimate debuffs and CC, DPS is not the only important thing in the game, buffs, debuffs and CC help the DPS land more hits, yes, but it doesn't mean you have to do DPS yourself nor will it be better if you ignore giving debuffs and CC to throw in your DPS.

I agree with this right here. Just started vDSA with 3 friends. Our tank has went Torug's w/crusher, obviously applies major breach and fracture, templar healer giving us minor breach and fracture and I must say the difference in which everything melts is beyond noticeable.

Can you tank with just a taunt? Absolutely, and i have no problem running with a tank that only has a taunt so long as i know i have to apply major breach myself.

But are runs / clears faster and smoother with all debuffs up as much as possible with the tank / healer handling these duties? 100% yes.

T4T2FR34K

Yeah...ok, no one is saying there isn't an ideal, max efficiency BiS tank out there...my point is...its not the only way.

kojou

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Ughh...right, like the tank that taunts and shield blocks is "better" than the tank who taunts AND does DPS...hmmm...don't think so, next...

I suppose you could use "Mark Target" on a Nightblade or Noxious Breath on a DK and tank with any weapon you wanted...

I had a DK tank build I used a while back with Black Rose, Vicious Ophidian, and Kr'agh, where I would taunt with the 1h and shield (Pierce Armor), but I backbar'ed a bow to apply Endless Hail and Poison Injection. I applied Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath and rearming trap as well, and even used Power Slam as kind of a spammable in between taunts. It was kind of fun to out DPS the DPS on a tank build.

You could theoretically tank with other weapons, but 1 hand and shield has the best taunt/debuff skill in Pierce Armor, so it is pretty hard to give up as a tank, but as long as you find other ways to taunt and apply Major Fracture and Major Breach then it doesn't matter. If you are running an all magicka group you could even apply Elemental Drain instead.

I have a Warden tank build that I use SPC on since she puts out so much healing...

These are all 4 man content tank builds though, for trials you will need to run a legitimate tank build.

coop500

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Yeah...ok, no one is saying there isn't an ideal, max efficiency BiS tank out there...my point is...its not the only way.

Not the only way, but there are better ways than just taunting and DPSing. Sword and Shield is the easiest and most reliable way to be a GOOD tank.

T4T2FR34K

coop500 wrote: »

Not the only way, but there are better ways than just taunting and DPSing. Sword and Shield is the easiest and most reliable way to be a GOOD tank.

No point continuing with you...you believe what you believe and I know what I know.

kojou

coop500 wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Yeah...ok, no one is saying there isn't an ideal, max efficiency BiS tank out there...my point is...its not the only way.

Not the only way, but there are better ways than just taunting and DPSing. Sword and Shield is the easiest and most reliable way to be a GOOD tank.

The "Good" part is key here...

If your tank's DPS rotation is hitting 15K, but you are dropping your DDs DPS from 35 to 20k because you can't keep the boss in the ground DoT's then it would be an overall improvement in group DPS for you to be more "tanky" and hold your ground better. If you are able to keep the boss in the ground DoTs, pull in the adds, and contribute DPS then I say go for it.

Magdalina

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

...there are many ways to tank...one of them being S/B.

...but there're only so many ways to provide the Pierce Armor debuff. I think it's what, Pierce Armor or NB whatever-it-was?

It's not that you can't tank most content without s&b but nothing else will be as good as it is, simple as is. It has debuffs, it has ulti gen if needed, it has reflect for non DKs and it has gorgeous tanking passives. Also, the way minimaxing works in ESO right now, with no softcaps and insane buffs we get from CP, the general consensus is that a full support role is actually better than a hybrid "look I dps too" one. If your 2 dps do 30k each then you can make them do 40k each...or you can just taunt the boss and do your ~10k dps. Admittedly that's for a good group. For a 5k pug, well no support can help that.

I'm also not sure you could tank trials with no s&b and I definitely wouldn't want to try some vet dlc dungeons without that. Most everything else can be done with whatever, even if suboptimal. People will usually freak if they see a tank without s&b though and can't say I blame them. You can always run with like minded friends though.

Nelson_Rebel

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Not the only way, but there are better ways than just taunting and DPSing. Sword and Shield is the easiest and most reliable way to be a GOOD tank.

No point continuing with you...you believe what you believe and I know what I know.

lol Your cute little insinuation there was nice

“believe what you believe, But I know What I know”

Let me tell you what I know. I know I’ve been playing this game since launch, on all three roles. Tank, DPS, and Healer

And while the TECHNICAL answer here is yes you can TRY to tank on something other than S&B. But you will NEVER be as good as someone who effectively uses the S&B line passives and active skills.

Holding taunt is not the only duty of a tank, debuffs and add control is a HUGE part of tanking something I take a small amount of pride in that I can actually do to help the group as a tank. And I have tanked Veteran Aetherial Archive and most of Vet Maw Of Lorkhaj.

If you choose not to debuff boss and add control as a tank. You are a then just a glorified Taunt holder. Even bad tanks know to do debuffs and add control, not even BiS tanks

If you are ok with that, then that’s fine. Just as long as you know that you will be a huge liability to every single group you ever go in. *Shrugs*

Casul

Can you tank with other weapons and inner fire. Yes. Should you? No. Why. Cause it makes things much slower then they have to be. I understand the need to feel like you can play how you want, but that only applies to solo play. As soon as you start impacting my game negatively (forcing a 15 minute run to take an hour) that's when I draw the line. Everyone has to bring something to the table. And if you can't tank effectively and effeciently then I will treat you the same as a snipe spam dps or a regeneration healer. The trinity is not extremely specific in its purposes but there should be some common sense things related to the roles. Tank debuffs and holds target. Dps kills target. Healer buffs and heals dps/tank.

BlanketFort

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Yeah...ok, no one is saying there isn't an ideal, max efficiency BiS tank out there...my point is...its not the only way.

I thought your point was you expected that to be a good tank in ESO, all you had to do was aggro and not die. But that’s not all a tank is measured by in this game. Debuffs, CCs, positioning, aggro priority, and buffing your group contribute a lot, especially to a well-oiled and awesome group.

Yes, there are other ways to tank/Grab aggro, but it might be worth pondering the efficiency of it. Even the few proper Frost staff tanks I know have a SnB on their main bar.

Great Tanks do more than just hold block and taunt. What an insult to all the magnificent tanks I’ve come across.

If you just wanted to be a below average tank, then sure, carry on. But if you aspire to be better, perhaps listening to what others have said on here would be a good start

Haquor

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

...there are many ways to tank...one of them being S/B.

Im sure you can agro a boss and survive. Hell i do it in light armor with shields and heals. But not all bosses. You will be limited to the content you can control with non sword and board.

You are more like an armored car than a tank.

Sword and board is clearly superior to all other weapon types for tanking due to resistance, debuffs and passives.

Really depends on the content. I mean.. you can do runs of some content with 4 dps. So meh.

Moglijuana

I can hold agro and tank vet dungeon bosses on my mag sorc. Does that make me a good tank too?

SoLooney

puncture is the best reliable way to give major fracture and major breach while taunting.

what other skills can do that? there are several skills that can give major fracture or major breach but not many can do both. then you would have to use a taunt, which in your case, the only option is inner fire

youre doing your group a diservice but not using abilities from sword and board. youre missing out a taunt, no reliable major fracture and major breach, an easy source of minor maim, absorb magicka from the passives.

and lets see how you can take damage, i seen tanks try to use other set ups and cant take more than 3 hits from a boss.

so yea, play how you want, just be ready to deal with consequences

Jade1986

Morvane wrote: »

I'm tired with frost staff tank experiments, new ways to be tank? Bow tank, 2h tank, unarmed tank? No, thnx, and return pls Frost staff to dps

No, it is a perfectly viable magicka tank option. There are more than enough dps options.

Nelson_Rebel

Jade1986 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

I'm tired with frost staff tank experiments, new ways to be tank? Bow tank, 2h tank, unarmed tank? No, thnx, and return pls Frost staff to dps

No, it is a perfectly viable magicka tank option. There are more than enough dps options.

perfectly viable.... Ok let’s reevaluate your stance on this. Perfectly viable solo play? Sure. Semi-viable in vet dungeons? Depending on dungeon, then yes.

Viable in trials? No. Stop here lol.


Now in pvp the frost staff gave magicka a better option so this is good

T4T2FR34K

Ahhhh, look at all the salt on my table, yummy...you all sound like the dudes who used to tell me "OH you use snipe, your a garbage NB" lulz as ur laying there dead in the dirt. Don't get mad cause someone can do what you do effectively...and don't listen to these cookie cutter forum warriors copying and pasting...lol, get some and get back to me...

VaranisArano

As long as you taunt, can hold the boss reasonably still, and don't die, I won't care too much about the rest.

How you taunt is up to you:
Puncture - Onehaded & Shield
Ice Staff Heavy Attack, Trifocus Passive - Destruction Staff
Inner Fire - Undaunted skill line
Tormentor set - procs on a charge ability

I don't care which taunt you use, but holding boss aggro is my bare minimum requirement for a tank.

Gan Xing

coop500 wrote: »

Let me boil down the 3 main tank choices, regardless of equipment.

A basic tank: Taunts and keeps boss still
A good tank: Taunts, keeps boss still, CCs adds and debuffs boss
A off-tank: Taunts, keeps boss still, then focuses on DPS

If only some bosses actually kept still (despite being taunted).
You also have to worry about when you are running with a pug group who don't know the dungeon and die, or causes you to die.

Gan Xing

VaranisArano wrote: »

As long as you taunt, can hold the boss reasonably still, and don't die, I won't care too much about the rest.

How you taunt is up to you:
Puncture - Onehaded & Shield
Ice Staff Heavy Attack, Trifocus Passive - Destruction Staff
Inner Fire - Undaunted skill line
Tormentor set - procs on a charge ability

I don't care which taunt you use, but holding boss aggro is my bare minimum requirement for a tank.

And yet some pugs go into a dungeon claiming to be tank and end up light attacking with a bow the entire way through (this actually happened to me this past week). I gave up trying to be just dps and told him that I would be the tank (despite me not being set up as a tank)

Sigtric

Well

I mean I can successfully tank some vet dungeons with my fire/lit mDK DPS set up. On the flip side there's no way I'd let a no-shield-concerned-with-dps "tank" be the tank in one of my trials

It just depends the content.