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Purge needs this change
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technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.0 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs.
And yet somehow MagDKs have survived templars running with their enormous glowy circle that doesn't cleanse just one person. O.o
(Which I am not suggesting be nerfed btw, give NBs back some more cloak utility!)0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭skinny.mindeb17_ESO wrote: »My solution would be making purge self-only (only in PvP areas). Also, retreating maneuver needs the same treatment. No more blobs being immune to all negative effects just because a couple of monkeys bash their heads on the keyboard.
Yeah, right, so you basically want to remove any counter play that smallscale or organized groups have against zergs? It'll encourage people to just stack more numbers, and /y "More people more fun".
Your organized group already has a large advantage from being organized. It does not also need the large advantage of being completely immune to all debuffs except a negate.2 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »Purge at this moment acts like a spammable ability. However, it adversely impacts PVP resulting in unkillable zerging.
I suggest treating Purge with the same cost increase per cast as Bolt Escape and morphs. Which has a 50% cost increase if casted again within 4 seconds.
Now the cost increase doesn't have to be 50% and the time doesn't have to be 4 seconds. It is just an idea.
Echoing what others are saying, this would just leave the ball groups having a few more people slot purge and casting them every 4 seconds in a pseudo "purge rotation" manner.
It would neuter small groups who need the utility of purge but can only afford one purge monkey.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »Purge at this moment acts like a spammable ability. However, it adversely impacts PVP resulting in unkillable zerging.
I suggest treating Purge with the same cost increase per cast as Bolt Escape and morphs. Which has a 50% cost increase if casted again within 4 seconds.
Now the cost increase doesn't have to be 50% and the time doesn't have to be 4 seconds. It is just an idea.
Echoing what others are saying, this would just leave the ball groups having a few more people slot purge and casting them every 4 seconds in a pseudo "purge rotation" manner.
It would neuter small groups who need the utility of purge but can only afford one purge monkey.
And further remove mobilty from the Templar. But if they want to neuter purge, it can only be done if templars receive a huge buff to their defense/mobilty options.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs.
And yet somehow MagDKs have survived templars running with their enormous glowy circle that doesn't cleanse just one person. O.o
(Which I am not suggesting be nerfed btw, give NBs back some more cloak utility!)
MagDKs have not survived cloaking NBs, which is the main reason it got drastically changed back then.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
It's been suggested before, but I've always thought one of the DK dots (it being the dottiest class) should have a penalty when purged a la inevitable det. Something like "if purged, deals 1/2 the remaining DOT damage instantly." Would be pretty interesting and add cool decision tree when purging.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yvesfouquet4 wrote: »Imagine zenimax implements every nerf suggestion from every random pleb crying here on the forums, then we can all go play tetris on alessia bridge.
Maybe remove sieges and implement snowballs ok
Reversed ESO-IMBA xD0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
It's been suggested before, but I've always thought one of the DK dots (it being the dottiest class) should have a penalty when purged a la inevitable det. Something like "if purged, deals 1/2 the remaining DOT damage instantly." Would be pretty interesting and add cool decision tree when purging.
Some form of penalty, yes!0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
Says the shield stacking streaking sorcerer. Roll a templar someday and be without your mobility, without your unpurgable and uncritable and undefileable double wall of artificial health, without your CC that ignores block and roll-dodge, and without your on demand insane burst.6 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
Says the shield stacking streaking sorcerer. Roll a templar someday and be without your mobility, without your unpurgable and uncritable and undefileable double wall of artificial health, without your CC that ignores block and roll-dodge, and without your on demand insane burst.
And passive execute that procs on lighting/physical DMG use.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Jawasa✭✭✭Here is to hoping zos never listens to the forums. Game would be 3 blobs moving from keep to keep sieges that never ends because every1 is just sittning on ballistas left clicking.2
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DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭I read all your comments. Some of which are very constructive and contain good points. Others are just blaming me of zerging (I don't see how that is relevant to my initial post and how a group of 6-10 experienced players in considered a zerg, but let's just ignore those people) and chain pulling, which is legit the only Magicka-based MagDK gap closer and only option for the major expedition buff for the MagDK. But that is not related to the post at all.
It is indeed true that Purge had a lot of nerfs and changes already. The best point made is about the pseudo-rotation zergs and organised raids would do to keep Purge up 100% of the time. I agree with that. My suggested change would not change a lot in terms of zerging or large scale organised ball groups.
My point is that Purge, in its current state, allows organised ball groups and zergs to counter all negative effects with ease. It renders all DoT's and siege equipment useless. Maybe my change suggestion isn't the ideal solution, some would argue not even close to ideal. But I believe most of us want to have fun in PVP (and PVE) and not be killed repeatedly by (nearly) unkillable zergs or organised ball groups. There is a reason people (in zone chat) talk about cheatsquads, cheatzergs etc. because it feels like a cheat. There also is no real counter to them, other than being more players or having more burst damage (which relates to the first counter). Either Purge needs to change or a strong counter to zerging needs to be implemented. It would be great if the latter would not be something zergs and ball groups can use to become even stronger. Like they (ZOS) did with introducing Vicious Death set and Proximity Detonation, but that may be another topic.Edited by DTStormfox on December 13, 2017 7:20PM0 -
Jawasa✭✭✭Or maybe balling up is a legot counter to the faction stacking? Because EP on sotha is mainly zerging and facyion stacking. There is a reason why many EP guilds left sotha for vivec.
The only counter We have to 60 player stacks atm is when 1-2 ok guilds show up with 12-16 players and kite them into a small space and blow them up. I dont want that counter removed.1 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭Do you guys also have something constructive to add to the discussion or are you just here to complain and whine?
@Jawasa @Trinity_Is_My_Name1 -
Jawasa✭✭✭Yes my feed back is that purge dont need any change at all it's fine. Because i think we need counters to snare and siege spam.1
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lets make eso a 3 button game, one is rock, one is paper other is scissors
Every time you meet someone in the field you go into a 1v1 instance and see who wins.
All problems solved.
Lag will also be gone.
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nah, the reason you cant kill people is because you hit 20 of them with 3 AoE and if you are lucky at least one person in the whole stacks actually receives full damage from 2 of them. And then he gets healed double by healers smart heal.
No, the reason is tactics, or the lack of them.
It is better that the 7th target takes 75% damage than have the AoE capped at 6 targets and that 7th take no damage.
Well that is true. But even better is if dealing a lot of damage to group could actually kill people and not spread the damage all over the place
And that has more to do with tactics and a group being well organized and directed.
The OP is most certainly not an issue in either case.0 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Lets make eso a 3 button game, one is rock, one is paper other is scissors
Every time you meet someone in the field you go into a 1v1 instance and see who wins.
All problems solved.
Lag will also be gone.
That joke just never gets old.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Interesting. I have heard stories of a certain someone using purge and a few other sets on a sap tank to really *** off pact militia. He knows who he is.Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Make the purge not effect someone already sporting the buff applied by purge.
Done!1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The thing is, if youre actually interested in and actively taking part in "smallscale" it's very unlikely that a destro ulti train with dedicated purge spammers would want to come after you. You're only playing with a few people, so they probably have juicier targets to hit.
It's not unreasonable for people to wonder what kind of perspective this request is really coming from.Edited by Valencer on December 13, 2017 12:03AM5 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭The only counter there is, or ever has been or ever will be to the strategies implemented by these groups is to do the same thing, better.
You can make all the Nerf's or buffs you want. The outcome won't change. Organized raids will always come out on top of disorganized numbers.
The counter is to build a guild of your own and start practicing. Or to avoid that kind of combat as suggested in the above statement.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
How is it lopsided?I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.
It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.
Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.
This solution sounds pretty lopsided against Templars and debuff build while favoring DOT builds. Kind of picking winners and losers here.
Maybe they should change it to where the limit of number of effects purged include targets as well. Say if the ability purges 5 effects; that’s for everyone it hits. Make purges that requires synergy do what they do on the caster but limited to only one use of the synergy.
Temps can purge the Defile, what more do they need? I claim that purging DoTs is actually very imbalanced, and purging Siege is just the tip of the iceberg.
Says the shield stacking streaking sorcerer. Roll a templar someday and be without your mobility, without your unpurgable and uncritable and undefileable double wall of artificial health, without your CC that ignores block and roll-dodge, and without your on demand insane burst.
You mean the purgable Curse-Fury burst? That procs Skoria so well?
The three shields that equal one wave of BoL?
The insane permanently-snared-by-Ritual mobility?
The shields that don't consider my armor rating?
The CC that goes through block and dodge, just like Drain Essence?
Sorry, bro, but if you complain about temps in Cyro at the moment, I can only advise you to do your homework better. They are incredibly strong at the moment.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The thing is, if youre actually interested in and actively taking part in "smallscale" it's very unlikely that a destro ulti train with dedicated purge spammers would want to come after you. You're only playing with a few people, so they probably have juicier targets to hit.
It's not unreasonable for people to wonder what kind of perspective this request is really coming from.
Well, you know a lot of trains will chase small scale groups, because they know their chances aren't that great if the latter attack them when they're spread out.
This is one of the greatest problems in Cyrodiil imo, if you specialize your build for group play, you are useless in small scale scenarios and vice versa, which leads to large groups frantically sticking together and fewer or less organized enemies feeling like they don't have a fighting chance.Vilestride wrote: »The only counter there is, or ever has been or ever will be to the strategies implemented by these groups is to do the same thing, better.
You can make all the Nerf's or buffs you want. The outcome won't change. Organized raids will always come out on top of disorganized numbers.
The counter is to build a guild of your own and start practicing. Or to avoid that kind of combat as suggested in the above statement.
Organized groups should have an advantage, just not to the point where their opponents don't have a fighting chance unless they outnumber them heavily.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭The thing is, if youre actually interested in and actively taking part in "smallscale" it's very unlikely that a destro ulti train with dedicated purge spammers would want to come after you. You're only playing with a few people, so they probably have juicier targets to hit.
It's not unreasonable for people to wonder what kind of perspective this request is really coming from.
Well, you know a lot of trains will chase small scale groups, because they know their chances aren't that great if the latter attack them when they're spread out.
This is one of the greatest problems in Cyrodiil imo, if you specialize your build for group play, you are useless in small scale scenarios and vice versa, which leads to large groups frantically sticking together and fewer or less organized enemies feeling like they don't have a fighting chance.Vilestride wrote: »The only counter there is, or ever has been or ever will be to the strategies implemented by these groups is to do the same thing, better.
You can make all the Nerf's or buffs you want. The outcome won't change. Organized raids will always come out on top of disorganized numbers.
The counter is to build a guild of your own and start practicing. Or to avoid that kind of combat as suggested in the above statement.
Organized groups should have an advantage, just not to the point where their opponents don't have a fighting chance unless they outnumber them heavily.
What are the other advantages you are referring to? if you mean rapids and purge only affecting group members I will agree with you that that was a nerf that had the opposite effect compared to the intent and I too would be happy to see reverted.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vilestride wrote: »The thing is, if youre actually interested in and actively taking part in "smallscale" it's very unlikely that a destro ulti train with dedicated purge spammers would want to come after you. You're only playing with a few people, so they probably have juicier targets to hit.
It's not unreasonable for people to wonder what kind of perspective this request is really coming from.
Well, you know a lot of trains will chase small scale groups, because they know their chances aren't that great if the latter attack them when they're spread out.
This is one of the greatest problems in Cyrodiil imo, if you specialize your build for group play, you are useless in small scale scenarios and vice versa, which leads to large groups frantically sticking together and fewer or less organized enemies feeling like they don't have a fighting chance.Vilestride wrote: »The only counter there is, or ever has been or ever will be to the strategies implemented by these groups is to do the same thing, better.
You can make all the Nerf's or buffs you want. The outcome won't change. Organized raids will always come out on top of disorganized numbers.
The counter is to build a guild of your own and start practicing. Or to avoid that kind of combat as suggested in the above statement.
Organized groups should have an advantage, just not to the point where their opponents don't have a fighting chance unless they outnumber them heavily.
What are the other advantages you are referring to? if you mean rapids and purge only affecting group members I will agree with you that that was a nerf that had the opposite effect compared to the intent and I too would be happy to see reverted.
Like I said, the discrepancy in effectiveness between builds specialized for organized group play and other playstyles is a big part of it. In game mechanics, things like smart healing and AoE caps add to that. I don't want to write a long text now, but generally ESO has a lot of uncommon/unique mechanics leading to these problems but lacks either the will or competence to do something about it.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2