Purge needs this change

DTStormfox

Okay, so I am fed up with these zergballs in PVP and so are the people I play with.
We are currently trying to avoid them to have some small/medium scale PVP, instead of joining the meatgrinder (or should I say AP grinder?).

There are a lot of posts on nerfing destro ulti, steel tornado and other damaging abilities in the game. However, I believe this is not the main reason these zergs are (nearly) unkillable.
The main reason zergs can stay alive is PURGE, especially the efficient purge morph.
Zergs have the ability to constantly have the purge buff up: reducing the duration of negative effects by 50% for 6 seconds
Why? Because they have multiple healers spamming purge, and if one runs out of magicka, the other can take over the duty of purge spamming.

So what does that mean for gameplay in PVP?
It means that ALL negative effects in the game are rendered useless. Want to kill them with Dawnbreaker? Bad luck, they purged it. Want to kill them using siege equipment? Aaah, too bad, they just purged it. Want to ... the list continues. Some would argue that negates are the solution to zerging. However, remember that this is a stationary ultimate and they can (most of the time) just run out of it. Because, they all run immovable potions and speed potions, or have somebody in the group cast Retreating Manoeuvres.

What am I suggesting?
Purge at this moment acts like a spammable ability. However, it adversely impacts PVP resulting in unkillable zerging.
I suggest treating Purge with the same cost increase per cast as Bolt Escape and morphs. Which has a 50% cost increase if casted again within 4 seconds.
Now the cost increase doesn't have to be 50% and the time doesn't have to be 4 seconds. It is just an idea.

You don't have to agree with me, but this is just a suggestion I want to make to make ESO PVP more enjoyable.

technohic

Cost increase on consecutive cast hurts the solo to small groups with a single purger more than ball groups. It would be the same effect as Earthgore currently is better when many have it in a tight group with the 35 second CD. (Which is another piece of the issue since it trumps even negate)

Perhaps a start could be a recourse timer for how long before you can receive the effects rather than cost increase to recast it.

Rainraven

The range on purge and rapids is so small now - and confined to group members, of course - its utility is ironically pretty limited for small groups that don't stay in each other's pockets, so double frustration here. I don't know what the answer is, but I think you're right, this is part of the problem.

I'm not sure giving it the streak treatment is going to matter much with groups that run like a single organism, whereas it would certainly matter to people running solo. (And not just in PVP.)

Drakkdjinn

If you nerfed purge b/c of ball grow you'd ironically also be nerfing
Mag small scalers who use purge to escape their roots n DoTs to survive zergs and ball groups, More CC effectiveness is the last thing this game needs, they already over perform to the point that these "purgebot"s have become necessary to fight outnumbered effectively. You'd see less of them if CC wasn't on 50% of *** in this game

lolo_01b16_ESO

In my opinion it would be a better counter to those groups if ground based aoes like veil, nova or standart would become better at area denial again. Maybe change it so snares and other debuffs applied by ground target ultimates can't be purged, reduced or avoided as long as you are inside them. Having unpurgable major defile on them while they move through a breach with 70% snare should make it easier to kill some of them.

idk

OMG no.

Besides OP being completely wrong as to why his friends have trouble killing zergs, the chance would have negative impacts elsewhere and most importantly with small groups.

It's really way off the mark to think large groups are a challenge to kill because a skill that purges only 6 targets and those targets cannot be chosen nor is it guaranteed the purge will prioritize those with negative effects. Heck, the caster is not even guaranteed to be purged.

There are proven tactics that work for a well organized team and it should be expected that a well organized team would be more effective against larger, more challenging targets.

SodanTok

Nah, the reason you cant kill people is because you hit 20 of them with 3 AoE and if you are lucky at least one person in the whole stacks actually receives full damage from 2 of them. And then he gets healed double by healers smart heal.

Domander

I just want to say a "zerg" is a large group of weak enemies.

The OP is describing organized large scale pvp.

This is supported by the fact that purge is group only since a long time ago.



I'm not saying a change wouldn't be great though, I'd like to see it remove only 1 effect from group members and several from yourself while also being made cheaper to cast. Make the buff it gives self only.

WrathOfInnos

This would negatively affect PVE, it's hard enough to get purge to hit the correct 6 people in a 12 man trial. The proposed change would remove the ability of many groups to clear HoF. I vote no (to this and all PVP driven nerfs to PVE).

maxjapank

Purge is a tricky thing. You might say that it encourages grouping since it only effects group members. If you're talking about oils not doing damage to groups with rams, ask yourself, "why is it that they have 3 siege shields stacked on top of each other?"

idk

SodanTok wrote: »

Nah, the reason you cant kill people is because you hit 20 of them with 3 AoE and if you are lucky at least one person in the whole stacks actually receives full damage from 2 of them. And then he gets healed double by healers smart heal.

No, the reason is tactics, or the lack of them.

It is better that the 7th target takes 75% damage than have the AoE capped at 6 targets and that 7th take no damage.

Darethran

Isn't the counter to have multiple attackers use Dragon Leap, to split up the group? Add in a meatbag catapult, and you've got em.

Didgerion

I doubt that the purge is the reason of unkillable groups. If you adjust purge then the groups will use other defensive tactics.

The main reason of such groups forming and surviving is that there is no skills or siege that can burst down big groups of zergs.

They just need to add one type of siege with insta-damage that is scaling up based on the number of enemies hit. If it hits 12+ ppl then it should one shot groups.
Or they can add a siege that creates a chain reaction - like hidden blade does - but much more powerful - that would insta kill on the 10th+ chain hit - and the problem is solved.

Darethran

Didgerion wrote: »

I doubt that the purge is the reason of unkillable groups. If you adjust purge then the groups will use other defensive tactics.

The main reason of such groups forming and surviving is that there is no skills or siege that can burst down big groups of zergs.

They just need to add one type of siege with insta-damage that is scaling up based on the number of enemies hit. If it hits 12+ ppl then it should one shot groups.
Or they can add a siege that creates a chain reaction - like hidden blade does - but much more powerful - that would insta kill on the 10th+ chain hit - and the problem is solved.

That sounds like the perfect boost to the scattershot catapult. Each successful hit adds a stacking debuff, increasing the damage received from them.

SodanTok

idk wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Nah, the reason you cant kill people is because you hit 20 of them with 3 AoE and if you are lucky at least one person in the whole stacks actually receives full damage from 2 of them. And then he gets healed double by healers smart heal.

No, the reason is tactics, or the lack of them.

It is better that the 7th target takes 75% damage than have the AoE capped at 6 targets and that 7th take no damage.

Well that is true. But even better is if dealing a lot of damage to group could actually kill people and not spread the damage all over the place

Waffennacht

I wish efficient purge cost 3500 while wearing light armor

ToRelax

No. Purge was nerfed and is fine where it is now. Stacking cost would make it impossible for me to use it effectively in solo or small group scenarios because it often doesn't purge the effects you want to get rid of in one cast in the first place.

CatchMeTrolling

Can't believe any small scale player would suggest this for purge, you realize that would hurt small scale more right. Not to mention there's way too many snares in this game to implement something like that, no thanks.

skinny.mindeb17_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Can't believe any small scale player would suggest this for purge, you realize that would hurt small scale more right. Not to mention there's way too many snares in this game to implement something like that, no thanks.

You see, you assumed he's a smallscaler, but it's a known fact, that his guild are zerglings. I hope that explains alot stupidity of his suggestion.

DivineFirstYOLO

I don't know where to start, but this thread is gold!

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Can't believe any small scale player would suggest this for purge, you realize that would hurt small scale more right. Not to mention there's way too many snares in this game to implement something like that, no thanks.

Yeah, cause OP isnt small scaling, he is the type of guy that is cowardly hiding behind a red zerg and using chains to pull people into the zerg, i've seen him, i've felt his chains.

If you want to nerf Purge you may aswell nerf Earthgore, Maneuver, etc. (somebody even mentioned Speed Pots, yeah, lets nerf Pots, they are so stronk, too overpowerd, much wow lol)

By the way some background info...he is most likely talking about Sotha Sil, where sieges already hurt a lot.. but I agree, ZOS give us a one shot scatter shot please, cause getting one shotted by left clicking is so skillful, not cheesy at all and way more balanced than OP Purge !!1!!1

My suggestions: nerf everything, buff siege weapons, make the sotha pact great again.

Valencer

Sotha Sil EP smallscale is best smallscale

Draxys

Changes like this never have the outcome hoped. It will hurt the medium and small groups too, which means we’re right back where we started with the problem of the game design propping the mindless masses of 40 people up on crutches.

Jawasa

So is op EP on sotha PC EU?

skinny.mindeb17_ESO

Jawasa wrote: »

So is op EP on sotha PC EU?

Yes, his guild playing on PC EU Sotha

Jawasa

Hahaha i allways wondred what people wanted to nerf groups and suggest horrible changes to buff zergs and sieges. Now i know.

CrazYDunm3r

I'm in the guild of OP. I don't agree with his points about purge but there needs to be a counter indeed, not only for small scale players encountering this groups, but in general. I like the idea of a stronger siege that does bigger damage to groups. Also a counter could be if people in a big group get certain debuffs, but that's just me thinking out loud.

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

Yeah, cause OP isnt small scaling, he is the type of guy that is cowardly hiding behind a red zerg and using chains to pull people into the zerg, i've seen him, i've felt his chains.

Sure some of us might be only in big groups, but don't generalize a whole guild. Some of us do small scale PVP with or without guildmembers, but that is their way of playing. I don't see guys that are 70 years of age doing small scale just because you want it. Some play casual and I don't mind big groups. A chance to fix it tho could be what I said above, but I'm certainly not the guy with the solution. Big groups need to stay, it is war after all, but a better counter is needed without negative effects for solo players. I do small scale sometimes as light armor mag DK and it is difficult to say the least and I avoid big groups whilst being alone.

Sharee

My solution would be making purge self-only (only in PvP areas). Also, retreating maneuver needs the same treatment. No more blobs being immune to all negative effects just because a couple of monkeys bash their heads on the keyboard.

skinny.mindeb17_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

My solution would be making purge self-only (only in PvP areas). Also, retreating maneuver needs the same treatment. No more blobs being immune to all negative effects just because a couple of monkeys bash their heads on the keyboard.

Yeah, right, so you basically want to remove any counter play that smallscale or organized groups have against zergs? It'll encourage people to just stack more numbers, and /y "More people more fun".

Jawasa

Zerg play out in force. Only viable playstyle should be runnign small scale/solo builds but in a 24 man group stacked with 24 solo players.

Lord-Otto

I think the real problem is what actually is considered purgable.

It makes no sense that you can purge DoTs. When NBs could do that with Cloak, it destroyed MagDKs. The same goes for sorcs' Curse and Fury. Siege. And so on. Those are damaging abilities not status effects. It's simple logic, really, to understand how this can be bad for gameplay.

Leave Purge, maybe make it cheaper, make all damaging abilities un-purgable. Only status effects like Fracture and Mark and so on should be purgable.

yvesfouquet4

Imagine zenimax implements every nerf suggestion from every random pleb crying here on the forums, then we can all go play tetris on alessia bridge.

Maybe remove sieges and implement snowballs ok