Absolutely no Morrowind motifs from thieving & dailies

Darethran

I have pickpocketed over two hundred times, looted safeboxes, rummaged through cupboards and chest, with not a single house motif page. And the dailies are no better, I've done them over twenty times, and not one god damn page. Talked to a crafter friend, and he's had the exact same outcome.

So what's going on? Are the motif drops broken?

Taleof2Cities

I have a high suspicion that you’re over-exaggerating the number of times you think you’ve done these tasks without a drop.

Regardless of what I think, there are some areas of improvement to better refine your search:

- Morrowind House motifs don’t drop in containers like cupboards, dressers, and barrels. They can only be found by pickpocketing citizens and looting chests & lockboxes.

- Having your Legerdemain skill line passives unlocked goes a long way in terms of forcing locks and improving your pickpocket chances.

- You can only pickpocket a citizen twice before they will no longer have anything lootable in their pockets. To speed up the loot reset, it’s recommended that you kill the NPC (and check for motifs) after the second pickpocket attempt. Rinse and repeat.

- You can improve your chances for daily drops by doing all the dailies on each character. I think you’re aware already ... but other players can share the remaining dailies that your character didn’t pick up already (both world boss and daily delves; both Hall of Justice and Ald’ruhn).

- Save looking for Buoyant Armiger motifs (chests) for last. ZOS has made the drop rate on these obnoxiously low ... and that is well-documented in the forums. On top of that, it’s not really one of the better-looking motifs to craft for your characters.

Darethran

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I have a high suspicion that you’re over-exaggerating the number of times you think you’ve done these tasks without a drop.

Regardless of what I think, there are some areas of improvement to better refine your search:

- Morrowind House motifs don’t drop in containers like cupboards, dressers, and barrels. They can only be found by pickpocketing citizens and looting chests & lockboxes.

- Having your Legerdemain skill line passives unlocked goes a long way in terms of forcing locks and improving your pickpocket chances.

- You can only pickpocket a citizen twice before they will no longer have anything lootable in their pockets. To speed up the loot reset, it’s recommended that you kill the NPC (and check for motifs) after the second pickpocket attempt. Rinse and repeat.

- You can improve your chances for daily drops by doing all the dailies on each character. I think you’re aware already ... but other players can share the remaining dailies that your character didn’t pick up already (both world boss and daily delves; both Hall of Justice and Ald’ruhn).

- Save looking for Buoyant Armiger motifs (chests) for last. ZOS has made the drop rate on these obnoxiously low ... and that is well-documented in the forums. On top of that, it’s not really one of the better-looking motifs to craft for your characters.

I'm not exaggerating, I've gone from level 12 to level 14 and 1/2 just by pickpocketing and selling the junk. I've also cleared out the WB dailies (group shares from zone) and a few delves. So far? Just Morag Tong style mats and that junk set.

Doing alts for daily farming isn't my kinda thing. I main one character, and have alts acting as storage.

Cireous

I was having the same problem and after asking about it in map chat, I was advised by multiple people farming there that you must have your legerdemain maxed (to rank 20) if you want to see any of the motifs from pickpocketing or any other means. It's apparently very very rare for them to drop otherwise. I have yet to see one drop on my non-maxed character. I went there on a maxed character and the first person I pickpocketed dropped a motif. Same for thieves guild, if you want to see motifs drop from troves, you have to max thieves guild.

For Bouyant Armiger, you need to complete the main quest line and receive the Champion of Vivec achievement for a slightly better chance for those motifs to drop from chests.

Darethran

Cireous wrote: »

I was having the same problem and after asking about it in map chat, I was advised by multiple people farming there that you must have your legerdemain maxed (to rank 20) if you want to see any of the motifs from pickpocketing or any other means. It's apparently very very rare for them to drop otherwise. I have yet to see one drop on my non-maxed character. I went there on a maxed character and the first person I pickpocketed dropped a motif. Same for thieves guild, if you want to see motifs drop from troves, you have to max thieves guild.

For Bouyant Armiger, you need to complete the main quest line and receive the Champion of Vivec achievement for a slightly better chance for those motifs to drop from chests.

Aww for real? It's going to take a good couple weeks of grinding to get that leveled up.

Urgh.

Cireous

Yeh, it sucked for leveling up there, but I guess it gives incentive to come back.

Taleof2Cities

Cireous wrote: »

I was having the same problem and after asking about it in map chat, I was advised by multiple people farming there that you must have your legerdemain maxed (to rank 20) if you want to see any of the motifs from pickpocketing or any other means. It's apparently very very rare for them to drop otherwise. I have yet to see one drop on my non-maxed character. I went there on a maxed character and the first person I pickpocketed dropped a motif.

This is actually false.

Having your Legerdemain passives unlocked does improve your chance for a successful pickpocket attempt, yes. However, after the successful pickpocket attempt, the motif drop is still a random chance ... not influenced by your Legerdemain skill rank or passives invested.

I have had experience with successful pickpocket motif drops on my Stam DK ... who had a lower than 20 Legerdemain skill and not all pickpocket passives unlocked.

Cireous wrote: »

Same for thieves guild, if you want to see motifs drop from troves, you have to max thieves guild.

This is true.

Cireous wrote: »

For Bouyant Armiger, you need to complete the main quest line and receive the Champion of Vivec achievement for a slightly better chance for those motifs to drop from chests.

This is also true.

Cireous

Successful pickpockets with lower legerdemain are rare, not impossible. I'm just going by what the people in chat said who were farming the stuff every day and my own experiences. Level 18 Legerdemain is still affording me no motif drops on my Warden, at least not yet.

duendology

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I have a high suspicion that you’re over-exaggerating the number of times you think you’ve done these tasks without a drop.


- Morrowind House motifs don’t drop in containers like cupboards, dressers, and barrels. They can only be found by pickpocketing citizens and looting chests & lockboxes.

But they do?.... I found mine in an urn when I broke into one of the houses...

duendology

I also think the drop is very low BECAUSE EVERYBODY goes to Morrowind for both furniture and gear motifs. Needless to say, it's now a "starting point" for everyone who got the Morrowind DLC (I refuse calling it "chapter)

Nocturnal_Annoyance

I never really had an issue getting the Morag Tong and Ashlander motifs... A friend and myself would group and run 2 sets of dailies on a few characters and we both got our sets pretty quickly. I think I bought the last two of each because I'm impatient like that. Now as far as getting purple housing plans... I've gotten 1 from an urn, the empty redoran cup (freaking really...). I've farmed the urns so many times... and pick pocketed well over 200 Redoran/Hlaalu/Telvanni motifs. I even got a skooma bubbler design from the drunk in Vos... and never a single cool purple Morrowind plan. And getting BA pages is just another beast in itself. Never found one from a wild chest... but have found several from treasure maps.

patrick_smyth

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

- You can only pickpocket a citizen twice before they will no longer have anything lootable in their pockets. To speed up the loot reset, it’s recommended that you kill the NPC (and check for motifs) after the second pickpocket attempt. Rinse and repeat.

You have the option of pickpocketing an NPC a third time and getting loot. This is useful for the occasional NPC that is either unkillable or too close to others to kill without a bounty. If you try for a fourth time you get "(empty)" come up instead of a chance%. Soon after the third successful pickpocket the character will make a random comment about something they cannot find.

Azurya

MajinCry wrote: »

I have pickpocketed over two hundred times, looted safeboxes, rummaged through cupboards and chest, with not a single house motif page. And the dailies are no better, I've done them over twenty times, and not one god damn page. Talked to a crafter friend, and he's had the exact same outcome.

So what's going on? Are the motif drops broken?

here the same, I am wondering where ppl get those motifs from!

mrdiamond666

Go to vivec city, I get 1 motif every 45 min or so... Pickpocketing

Darethran

mrdiamond666 wrote: »

Go to vivec city, I get 1 motif every 45 min or so... Pickpocketing

That's what I've been doing since I was level 12 in Legedermain. Now I've got it to level 15, with 40% left until 16. Not one single motif.

Darethran

And I just got my first motif, Hlaalu chest. That's about...Ooh, 600 or so items in? So 0.16% drop rate.

Feric51

You need to target the more difficult npcs if you want a higher chance at motifs. Knocking over the beggars and riff-raff will provide you with junk. Going after the royals/mages/etc will give you a better chance at the good stuff (including motifs).

Darethran

Feric51 wrote: »

You need to target the more difficult npcs if you want a higher chance at motifs. Knocking over the beggars and riff-raff will provide you with junk. Going after the royals/mages/etc will give you a better chance at the good stuff (including motifs).

Aye, I've been doing that actually. Made sure to target the harder NPCs, the ones that go down to 35% chance to pickpocket (with Light Fingers 3/4).

Katahdin

You don't need ledgerman maxed to get the house (Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni) motifs. I farmed them on 6 characters when Morrowind first came out and some of those characters were not max ledgerman yet.
Got motifs on every character almost every time.
The hardest part was getting a successful pick if that line was not maxed yet.

Nocturnal_Annoyance

I always farm Vos and Tel Mora, there are 12 npcs in a perfect loop and 90% of the time I get my motif in the first round. My ledgerdemain is maxed (it wasnt when i started) and I have a lot of the achievements for Morrowind. Plus there are only 3 guards up there so it's easy to avoid getting caught. And not many others farm up there. Motifs have a 30 minute cool down, so once ya get one go do something else. There aren't many higher target npcs up there (one mage, one scholar... the rest are farmers/beggars and one drunk). In my experience though for getting motifs it hasn't mattered who the npc was. If by chance you're on ps4, I will gladly show you my farming loop because I'm done up there for a while.

Darethran

Nocturnal_Annoyance wrote: »

I always farm Vos and Tel Mora, there are 12 npcs in a perfect loop and 90% of the time I get my motif in the first round. My ledgerdemain is maxed (it wasnt when i started) and I have a lot of the achievements for Morrowind. Plus there are only 3 guards up there so it's easy to avoid getting caught. And not many others farm up there. Motifs have a 30 minute cool down, so once ya get one go do something else. There aren't many higher target npcs up there (one mage, one scholar... the rest are farmers/beggars and one drunk). In my experience though for getting motifs it hasn't mattered who the npc was. If by chance you're on ps4, I will gladly show you my farming loop because I'm done up there for a while.

I'm on PC EU. I've had no trouble actually pickpocketing the NPCs, I've now got an inventory full of green and blue treasures. Just no motifs.

disintegr8

I've given up trying to get motifs through grinding and just buy them now. Was doing the Mages/Fighters guild dailies for a while to try and get the motifs that drop, but with a ridiculously low drop rate, on a quest you can only do once per character per day, too much hassle.

At last count my main crafter knows about 36 complete crafting styles and there are only about 8 that I am still working on.

Darethran

As an update, now that I got all of the levels in Light Fingers, I've found two motifs. I guess Legedermain affects how many you get.

victoriana-blue

There isn't cool down on motifs, I've gotten two within fifteen minutes on the same character, no relogging involved. I have a theory that the number of skill points spent in legerdemain affects the quality of the drops you get, but that might be superstition.

Anyway, I get most of my House motifs when I'm doing my crafting dailies. I do a quick round of Vivec City and the battleground area, pickpocketing once, then do my dailies, then do another circuit of the city to finish pickpocketing/woeing. This works for me because if you pick a pocket - even once - and someone else kills that npc, you can loot the body for the "remaining" pickpocket drops; I don't have to worry about respawn timers while I craft, and then I can go finish my thieving once the crafting is done. (And if the npc has the default first-attempt pickpocket chance when I do my second circuit, that's a sign someone else has been pickpocketing/killing and that I should look around for body.)

Uriel_Nocturne

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

- Morrowind House motifs don’t drop in containers like cupboards, dressers, and barrels. They can only be found by pickpocketing citizens and looting chests & lockboxes.

Yes, but I've been Thieving my little undead ass off since this was implemented, and have yet to find even a -SINGLE- page of the Telvanni/Redoran/etc. Motif Pages. And I do Thieving runs in Vvardenfell every single day, until I just can't take it anymore.

Edit = I should also add that I have the "Savior of Morrowind" achievement and title, so I've cleared enough of the content that the Motif Pages should be (literally) jumping into my inventory.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

- Having your Legerdemain skill line passives unlocked goes a long way in terms of forcing locks and improving your pickpocket chances.

Legerdemain is maxed. Thieves Guild Skill Line is maxed. Not sure if it helps, but my Dark Brotherhood Skill line is maxed as well. STILL have not seen a single page.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

- You can only pickpocket a citizen twice before they will no longer have anything lootable in their pockets. To speed up the loot reset, it’s recommended that you kill the NPC (and check for motifs) after the second pickpocket attempt. Rinse and repeat.

I do this every time.

Pickpocket twice, Blade of Woe the victim, then loot for the third chance. STILL not a single page of ANY of the House Motif's since the House Motif's and the ability to steal them has been implemented.

At this point, ANY argument that "it's just RNG and your luck sucks" is hollow and holds no merit.

After this amount of time, and doing these activities DAILY, it must be that the drop rate/loot chance for these House Motif's has either been stealth nerfed, or is weighted ignorantly low enough that they drop at the same rate as Gold Motif Books.

Either of those is absurd, but there's far more to this than just "RNG-sus hates you".

I apologize if this post sounds pissy or angry, but it is. I'm not upset at you, this isn't your fault. But it's damn frustrating to have been "playing by the rules" for getting these Motif pages, for this amount of time, and to strike out every single day.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert Care to shine any light on this? How rare are these damn Motif Pages, that I haven't been able to get even a single page?

Is there a numbers issue in the RNG loot tables? Have the Motif pages been weighted so lightly in those same Loot Tables that this is the real rare chance of getting any of them?

All I want is the Telvanni Motif, but nooooooo...

Rouven

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

(...)

All I want is the Telvanni Motif, but nooooooo...

Stupid random though - and I don't know if this would affect anything - but is your thief also your crafter?

I haven't tried any of this yet myself so I don't have other feedback.

Asardes

I have 2 chars with 20 ledgermain and I do find motifs quite often when pickpocketing. You can in fact pickpocket any NPC at least 3 times if no other player has done so before, and more than 3 times if drops consist of style fragments - those only seem to take 1/2 of a slot. I've noticed that pickpocketing yields items of increasing quality and motif pages are often the last thing you get from an NPC before it's empty. Also harder NPCs like nobles have a higher chance than beggars or sailors. The overall drop rate is probably something like 1.5-2% overall but there seems to be a cooldown as well. Once you get one you will not get another sooner than about half hour.

I've been doing the CWC dailies on 2 characters and some of the crow ones do ask for stolen items of some specific type (ex. toys, cookware, grooming). I always get those from pickpocketing NPCs in Vvardenfell. I often find a page before the item quota is filled. So the OPs experience seems to be in stark contrast to my own.

Uriel_Nocturne

Rouven wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

(...)

All I want is the Telvanni Motif, but nooooooo...

Stupid random though - and I don't know if this would affect anything - but is your thief also your crafter?

I haven't tried any of this yet myself so I don't have other feedback.

Yep.

He's my Main, so I've got him at 50 on every Crafting Skill except for Enchanting.

davey1107

I heavily thieve in Morrowind. I’ll offer some tips, I get a house motif within a half hour most ever time.

Working up Legerdemain

It’s uncertain how your leger level affects the motif drops exactly. A lot of thieving rng is just guessing by the community. However, ZOS has said in patch notes that a higher leger DOES improve quality of drops. This might or might not affect motifs, but either way if you’re going to thieve with a toon you might as well invest in leveling leger, which is actually faster than you think.

Invest one skill point in the passive that allows 220 fence transactions per day...just one point in that passive. Then, once per day go on a looting route. Here are two great routes with few npcs. One, the Inn complex in orsinium. Two, the two ships in harbor in Daggerfall (don’t foget below deck on both!) Steal everything...either route provides ~180 items. Launder the cheapo ingredients and crap, sell everything else. This is about 15 minutes worth of work, and in a dozen or so runs you can max leger. You can even speed it up if you play in the evenings...the fences flip at 7 or 8 pm pacific time. When I level leger, I do my stealing around this time and max a fence session, let it flip, then max it again.

Once your leger is up, there are some good passives in the line if you’re going to be a thief. EVERY toon should invest in reducing sneak cost 40%, especially if you ever pvp. The pickpocket passive is essential if you want to do a lot of this. And if you’re going to steal a lot, boost the value of items sold. Why not? Skill points are plentiful. I also investmin bounty reduction on my thieving toons.

Tip: you can also work on leger and thieves guild together by running the thieves den repeatable, which open after you start thieves guild. If you’re not good at picking yet, you can drop the quest and pick up the respawn until you get the easier safe box quest. Doing these level the thieves guild skill line, but they also provide some pardons that you might be needing on your thieving adventures.


Morrowind pick-pocketing

The three house motifs come from pickpocketing npcs. To boost success rates, it helps to understand how pickpocketing works. Each NPC has three items to steal, and as you progress it gets harder. However, as you move from pick 1 to 2 to 3, the quality of items increases. You can nab a blue quality treasure on the first pick, but it’s a lot more likely on the third. Motifs seem to follow the same logic. They are extremely rare on the first pick, and more common on the third.

Note that murdering an NPC on the third item seems to produce the same rng as a third pick.

I personally have the most success away from Vivec. I go to the cities in the upper right and upper left. I have routes in either...stopping in each house where there’s an npc and picking them all three times. I often kill them on the third item so I can steal other stuff without worrying about them. There are maybe eight npcs I focus on in the upper left city, and six in the upper right. I usually get a motif doing this...I’m going to say if I pickpocket for a half hour through these routes I get a house motif 2 trip of 3.

When you do nab a house motif, you be done for a while. There seems to be a “cool down” timer to discourage farming. When you get your page, go do something else. When I framed them I did one page per day. The timer is faster than that, but I wasn’t in a rush.

Rouven

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

(...)

All I want is the Telvanni Motif, but nooooooo...

Stupid random though - and I don't know if this would affect anything - but is your thief also your crafter?

I haven't tried any of this yet myself so I don't have other feedback.

Yep.

He's my Main, so I've got him at 50 on every Crafting Skill except for Enchanting.

Let's grasp the last straw! It's because you are inflicted with Noxiphilic Sanguivoria!



Seriously though I'm usually in the same boat, hope you situation get's better one way or the other.

Asardes

I have a pretty well optimized "thief" build on one of my characters, but the results don't seem to be different from the other, just the bounty at the end is much smaller. Both have maximized Ledgermain and 4/4 Light Fingers. Both have finished all the Morrowind quests, and have all quest & exploration related achievements - I've heard that those may affect motif drop rates. The unoptimized build is a Nord Stamina DK with 1/5/1 armor setup, and no special set buffs, optimized is a Khajiit Stamina NB with 7 medium, 5 Night Mother's Embrace, 3 Night Terror (jewels) and also a point in Thieves Guild: Veil of Shadows. I can basically sit right by an NPC and pickpocket another without triggering a bounty. The eye is almost closed even when sitting on top of the target NPC. The average bounty is ~500 after around 100 pickpocketted objects.