Werewolf Improvements Please

dsalter

updating the stam return on heavy attacks to these days would be nice... it's restoring values before the whole stam rework
give them CC immunity (not not snare)
allow WW form to benefit from ALL of the currently slotted weapons passives
scale the heal off of stamina but retain the magicka cost
improve animations to be less clunky+more responsive

and bam. fun werewolves for all.

Tirps

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

He’s saying that warden doesn’t make the best WW but that warden gets into WW form the easiest because of shimmering shield.

I’m surprised no one has posted the “Meta” WW build of MK + PA + PR

I don't know those Acronyms, sorry.

MK = Molag kena, PA = Pelinal's Aptitude and PR means Prisoner's Rags.

Ertthewolf

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Sinolai wrote: »

I'd like to see a magicka based "Buffer werewolf" so not all WW's should be stamina. eg. Make the heal affect you and all allies in colse proximity, make leap morph that give major ward & resolve to you and allies around the launch & landing zone, roar that gives major & minor berserk, howl that gives major endurance & fortitude and claws that apply major maim to enemies... or something similar.

You could have a functional werewolf party with 1-2 buff wolves to keep the party alive and a bunch of damage wolves to tear enemies into pieces. Maybe also a skill with taunt so the WW team could have full raid team? (and maybe we wouldn't need to face-palm every time the tank turns into a werewolf in a dungeon)

Oh my.

The following is a long rant, but if you don't understand werewolf mechanics, and most posters here don't, y'all should read.

This probably doesn't include the poster I am responding to as they carefully selected buffs not naturally available to a werewolf. However, the suggestion to add major and minor berserk, is well, crazy talk. Try the short duration buff from the armor set to see why...

Werewolf doesn't need any effectiveness buffs or spin-off versions. If you know how to build a WW, you will get stellar results. It could use a couple of QoL improvements, but that's about it.

Werewolf transformation is not intended to be used solo, because, well, wolves run in packs. In fact, you need about 3 werewolves to keep the transform up continuously without worrying about it constantly. But realistically, if you are a roleplayer, you would say ZoS nailed it with werewolves.

Similarly, all the necessary tools become available when you have 2-3 werewolves in a group. The misconception that a pack is not self-sufficient usually comes from folks that haven't tested werewolf abilities and don't have a firm grasp on the underlying mechanics.

To be an effective werewolf, you need to run some sort of hybrid build. The best heal (steepest scaling) in the game is Hircine's bounty, it also buffs your weapon damage by 10%, and the buff is not on the major/minor buff system. It does, however, scale off of magicka and spell power. With a hybrid build, I have healed for as high as 15k in PvP, which would be 30k in PvE. And even if you have access to an AoE heal, the need is not high, because you will still have to use the skill periodically for the buff anyway.

If you are having issues, it's most likely not because you are running werewolf, it's your build.

You do NOT need to build solely for dps unless running in a trials group. Werewolf transform adds significant defense, stats and high base dps, as well as passives that buff your weapon damage, a passive basic attack bleed and dual purpose active abilities that buff you. Examples other than Hircine's Rage's include Rousing Roar's AoE weapon damage buff (major brutality) and Ferocious Roar's AoE off-balance (which I give special attention to near the end). Most of the morphs provide complementary buffs.

Werewolves would not be remotely balanced if they could also have the buffs listed in the quoted post and run all werewolves. Right now, if I build solely for dps, I can reach 40k sustained PvE dps solo using only light attack and periodically other skills just for the buffs. The damage is close to 50/50 between light attack and bleed, with light attack damage edging slightly higher than bleed damage, but bleed damage being more consistent as it ignores mitigation. As to burst, Mammoths last about 4.5 seconds, and if sets are proc'd, under 3sec... With a hybrid build I cap out at ~28k sustained using only light attack. With 28k dps there are few groups that will turn you away, and with 40k without external buffs, I dare say none will.

The only light attack thing has a reason - stam regen, as a full dps werewolf, is low. I have seen all sorts of different race suggestions on the forums, and I disagree with them all, I think the best race is Bosmer for the huge stam regen buff. You don't necessarily need more weapon/spell power, more stam, more health or more resists. You do need more stam regen to keep your buffs up.

I also typically disagree with class choice. People typically pick Sorc because what goes with you into the transform is limited. For example, any passive that grants a bonus "while slotted" (except perhaps the werewolf ulti) does not transfer. Sorc typically is chosen because of the passive damage buff. But again, you don't necessarily need more damage. I prefer Warden, because if you build to be a werewolf, out of werewolf you will usually be terrible, and you want to get back into werewolf form as fast as possible. The shield that provides major heroism when struck by a projectile is not only beastly defense, it also can put you back in WW form in seconds rather than minutes.

ZoS has added multiple sets that are not only directly complementary to werewolves, but in some cases only useful to a werewolf. The best example is Kvatch Gladiator. I tried this set on a non-werewolf when it first came out and was dissapointed at the lackluster results, to the point of believing it was broken. On a werewolf, the set effectively provides a passive execute. Another example is bloodroot, the 20% to bleed damage is huge. I reach 40k dps solo using bloodroot, molag kena and ravager.

Synergistic sets include armor of truth. Currently, off balance is not on an immunity. Roar fear causes off balance. Ferocious roar causes off balance with fear and then again if you kill an enemy that is feared. Pounce stuns off balanced targets.

Mark of the Pariah is not only synergistic, the name fits. Werewolf transform adds ~10k to physical and spell resist, and Pariah 3k to 11k, scaling up as your health decreases. It is simple to overcap resists with Pariah. For PvP, you can also double up on defense by using impregnable armor and as long as you invest in heal debuffs, still perform... let's say well. The high base damage is key to every effective build.

Finally, see Jack Daniel's hybrid build video from I think may or june. When you watch the video, it will instantly click why some are perfectly suited for a ww that wants big heals and big dps.

So, in summary, if we were given effectiveness improvements, you'd just be looking at a nerf down the road. I also think if they made it easier to stay in form, it would come with a lowering of base damage.

----


So, what QoL improvements do I want the most?

I mostly PvP and my number one gripe is that it's difficult or impossible to tell when you block, roll dodge, etc. I would like these graphical effects to be made as noticeable as they are when not in werewolf form.

I would also like to see a fix to the target skelly. Werewolf form bugs horribly at the point you should lose transform. You keep the transform but all sorts of other screwy things come with it.

I would like to be able to somehow have a practice arena or something where you stay permanently in werewolf form so that you can practice your skill combinations continuously. Could be as simple as fixing the skelly bug so that you actually stay in werewolf form the entire time.

This post nails it exactly.

I have taken so many people who have said werewolf is weak and turned their whole world upside down when they see mine perform. It's always met with a head scratch and a flurry of questions as to "how" my wolf is so strong.

Have done all PvP modes, including winning countless duels, all Vet dungeons, flawless vMA run, solo world bosses like cake, all on the same werewolf character. Do you think it needs buffed now?

My GT on Xbox is ErtTheWolf55. Been playing wolf since release and have one of the strongest most respected werewolf guilds on Xbox. If you all wanna know how the wolf works in depth and play on Xbox hit me up.

My werewolf skills are lackluster, could be because I don't play or I am not thinking the correct way to build a beast. What is your build for your werewolf character? Do you think the Warden class can make a fearsome werewolf?

I run Salvation, Shackle Breaker and Mighty Chudan on my stam Dk. Imperial race.

Warden would work fine. All classes have some passives to benefit. Reduced snare and minor toughness work nice with a Warden werewolf. Werewolf builds work best by adding utility vs pure dps.

Wildberryjack

I was mainly talking about the visuals and animations but y'all have piqued my interest greatly with the suggestions on how to play WW correctly, especially what Wreuntzylla said. I have a question about that in regard to race for a WW Warden as well as the allocation of points into stamina and magicka.

Right now my Warden WW is a High Elf, and for the moment I'm all in on Magicka as I found that playstyle a bit more fun. But if I wanted to maximize my Warden's performance as a WW would I need to split my points between stamina and magicka, as well as split my abilities between some stamina and some magicka? What about enchants? Same, split?

Basically, how would you set up a hybrid Warden Werewolf other than the gear? And what buff food/drink is best?

Also, in case anyone is wondering why in the world I made a High Elf a WW, I turned a corner and ran smack into the WW NPCs that infect you. It was an accident but I decided at the time to just run with it.

Wreuntzylla

DjinnRa wrote: »

I was mainly talking about the visuals and animations but y'all have piqued my interest greatly with the suggestions on how to play WW correctly, especially what Wreuntzylla said. I have a question about that in regard to race for a WW Warden as well as the allocation of points into stamina and magicka.

Right now my Warden WW is a High Elf, and for the moment I'm all in on Magicka as I found that playstyle a bit more fun. But if I wanted to maximize my Warden's performance as a WW would I need to split my points between stamina and magicka, as well as split my abilities between some stamina and some magicka? What about enchants? Same, split?

Basically, how would you set up a hybrid Warden Werewolf other than the gear? And what buff food/drink is best?

Also, in case anyone is wondering why in the world I made a High Elf a WW, I turned a corner and ran smack into the WW NPCs that infect you. It was an accident but I decided at the time to just run with it.

I hadn't actually heard of the prisoner's rag version of the pellinal build (a friend has a version using coward's). However, there are a number of fantastic builds in the following video. My favorite is the stam-necropotence build for PvP performance in or out of WW (stam dps with stupidly large shields). The original Pellinal meta build is also in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3LaYfNTaU




EDIT: Note that if you use a necropotence build, you will need to run Pack Leader to proc the 5th piece bonus.

ScardyFox

At least give us our group perma wolf back....

profound sadness

BloodStorm

Werewolves ingame and in most exaggerated myth are half biologically human AKA half Primate so the APE thing is not wrong somewhat :P. it is what is. Though In real life Werewolves/ Vampires come from the same thing, Ancient times especially but basiclaly abused or people with a rough beginning in life/ brutal who evolve to survive and are outcasts/ people. They are based off serial killers and people who were betrayed by humanity which drives evolution and creates a being whos brain sees humans as potential enemies often and or prey/ inferior. The Psyhology is fun and true but anyway went off topic .

Xoelarasizerer

Anyone brought up that Werewolves should be able to rez team mates yet?
Cos if not, Werewolves should be able to rez team mates. Seriously.
If Werewolves can lockpick chests, they can hold a soul gem over a dead body.

DuskMarine

this doesnt need an improvement........improvements normally means buffing something. you cant buff something thats so broken it doesnt work correctly at all they just need to rework the poor thing. it was overnerfed forever ago and never got a real decent buff