Stam nb pvp heavy armor help

Icy_Waffles

I would like to take my nightblade into pvp. I need suggestions for some gear.

Was thinking dual weild for front bar and s&b for back. Since nb have gap closer etc. Heavy armor seems more needed than before.

Redguard.
Stam.

Suggestions?

Izaki

Heavy Armor Stamblade just feels wrong IMO. You don't have the innate tankiness of the other classes: no Major/Minor Healing Done/Received buffs, no Healing passives, no extra class heal, no extra resistances or blocking passives. But it can work since it has something other classes don't: Mirage/Double Take.

Frankly, you have a lot of options at this point. I'd still suggest sticking to the classic, 2H/Bow playstyle since that's what works best for Stamblades in general. All other setups just pale in comparison most of the time.

Now if you were to go down the 2H/Bow route this is what I would personally suggest:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager, 3 Agility, 2 Bloodspawn, Asylum 2H, Master's Bow. All tri-stat enchants, 2 weapon damage 1 recovery on the jewelry, and you'd want the Lava foot-soup and Saltrice food (Max Stam and Stam Recovery).
As far as skills go:
2H bar: Executionner, Crit Rush, Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Rally, Incap
Bow bar: Mirage, Shadow Image, Poison Injection, Vigor, Relentless Focus/Leeching Strikes, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista.
Playing without Cloak would be your best bet. The only downside of this build is the fact that you can't remove snares (which is also why Cloak will be useless most of the time).

The other option, and I've seen this work very well, is the DW/2H setup:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager (body and weapons), 5 Bone Pirate (jewelry and body), 2 Troll King (both in Heavy). Same thing as the 2H/Bow setup in terms of enchantments, the only thing that changes is the food: use Dubious drink.
DW Bar: Ambush, Mass Hysteria, Vigor, Surprise Attack, Deadly Cloak, Incap
2H Bar: Mirage, Forward Momentum, Shadow Image, Shadowy Disguise, Leeching Strikes/Relentless Focus, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista
The main benefit of this is the fact that you retain the mobility due to Forward Momentum, which allows you to use Cloak, which in turn allows you to heal better (since all your Vigor ticks will crit while in Cloak). Another benefit is the fast Heavy Attacks. I'd recommend going for the Tactitian CP passive to get the most benefit out of that, since HAs do 75% more damage to Off-Balance targets on top of the 10% extra damage from the Exploiter CP passive.
The only downside is the lack of a burst heal.

You could do a similar thing as the DW/2H setup with a SnB/2H setup, just replace Deadly Cloak with Relentless Focus (and run Leeching on the back bar) OR replace it with Killer's Blade (and run Relentless on the back bar). Keep everything else the same.

With both the DW and the SnB setups, you'd want to run the Immovable, Expedition and Stam pots. With the 2H/Bow setup, you'd want to run Immovable, Weapon Crit and Stam pots (or just tri-stats, but I doubt you'll need them considering your magicka consumption isn't very high.

Betsararie

Considering medium armor is unplayable you have no choice. Anyone who is still saying medium armor stamblade is viable in PvP is wrong. Flat out wrong it's garbage. Medium armor stamblade is the easiest to kill class in PvP by far, not even close. Staying alive is not possible, it has nothing to do with skill, your only option is dying but you may get some kills along the way if you find bad players.

There is nothing worse you can do for yourself than run medium armor, which is unplayable.

The only viable way to play stamblade is to wear heavy. This is not debatable. Stamblade in heavy currently performs very well in the right hands.

The only conceivable way to run medium would be some combination of chudan, fortified brass etc, but you will be sacrificing a lot of damage just to get your resistances in the heavy armor range. You aren't sacrificing damage running heavy if you build correctly.

davey1107

Stamblade player with >500 hrs pvp experience. I tend to agree with Izaki more than Blanco and lean toward medium armor, with perhaps 1 large piece heavy.

Being a good stamblade in pvp is more about avoiding damage than mitigating damage. You don’t need to survive a hit, you need to learn to never take the hit at all. Players who don’t learn the NB play style (which is very distinct from other classes) might find they need the heavier armor as a crutch. But the players who really adapt to how a stamblade plays tend to favor medium.

Avoiding damage means being better at hiding. 90% of the players I encounter are not good at sneaking and stealth. If you’re a DK or Templar you can stupidly run up to a flag or enemy or objective. A NB should not be seen until they’re in the process of killing someone. They should be able to hide in a resource tower with five other players hunting them without being discovered. They should know where to crouch so that they won’t be found, and if they are seen they can duck behind cover, cloak, and move away, confusing enemies.

It also means when you are in battle you duck the hits. You have shuffle or mirage to help with this. You should also use your dodge roll well...this is where medium becomes more useful. If a player doesn’t know how to dodge roll well, then they’re missing out on a major benefit of medium.

I think Blanco is half right. He says medium is unplayable. It probably is...for him...because his attitude stinks and he doesn’t sound like he’s willing to learn the play style.

Anyway, if you’ve never pvp’d with your stamblade before or if you’re a newer pvp player, then I might suggest starting with a ranged build. I know this isn’t a redguard’s forte, and I’m not saying it should be your long term build, but if you’re looking to get your sea legs in pvp a good old bow / 2h build is a start. You can do marksman / Hundings or marksman / hawks eye. Use this build to practice ganking, hiding, cloaking and escaping. Fight from walls and get a sense of how hard you hit and how hard you get hit. Practice your evasion. Taunting five players below you is a great way to practice surviving an onslaught.

When you get ready for a more melee focused build, you can look at other sets like bone pirate, eternal hunt, spriggans, etc.

Note - while I still favor 6+ medium pieces on a stamblade, I do look to boost resistance with 4+ pieces of impen and optimal CP allocation, especially the red line.

Good luck!

Lexxypwns

Izaki wrote: »

Heavy Armor Stamblade just feels wrong IMO. You don't have the innate tankiness of the other classes: no Major/Minor Healing Done/Received buffs, no Healing passives, no extra class heal, no extra resistances or blocking passives. But it can work since it has something other classes don't: Mirage/Double Take.

Frankly, you have a lot of options at this point. I'd still suggest sticking to the classic, 2H/Bow playstyle since that's what works best for Stamblades in general. All other setups just pale in comparison most of the time.

Now if you were to go down the 2H/Bow route this is what I would personally suggest:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager, 3 Agility, 2 Bloodspawn, Asylum 2H, Master's Bow. All tri-stat enchants, 2 weapon damage 1 recovery on the jewelry, and you'd want the Lava foot-soup and Saltrice food (Max Stam and Stam Recovery).
As far as skills go:
2H bar: Executionner, Crit Rush, Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Rally, Incap
Bow bar: Mirage, Shadow Image, Poison Injection, Vigor, Relentless Focus/Leeching Strikes, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista.
Playing without Cloak would be your best bet. The only downside of this build is the fact that you can't remove snares (which is also why Cloak will be useless most of the time).

The other option, and I've seen this work very well, is the DW/2H setup:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager (body and weapons), 5 Bone Pirate (jewelry and body), 2 Troll King (both in Heavy). Same thing as the 2H/Bow setup in terms of enchantments, the only thing that changes is the food: use Dubious drink.
DW Bar: Ambush, Mass Hysteria, Vigor, Surprise Attack, Deadly Cloak, Incap
2H Bar: Mirage, Forward Momentum, Shadow Image, Shadowy Disguise, Leeching Strikes/Relentless Focus, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista
The main benefit of this is the fact that you retain the mobility due to Forward Momentum, which allows you to use Cloak, which in turn allows you to heal better (since all your Vigor ticks will crit while in Cloak). Another benefit is the fast Heavy Attacks. I'd recommend going for the Tactitian CP passive to get the most benefit out of that, since HAs do 75% more damage to Off-Balance targets on top of the 10% extra damage from the Exploiter CP passive.
The only downside is the lack of a burst heal.

You could do a similar thing as the DW/2H setup with a SnB/2H setup, just replace Deadly Cloak with Relentless Focus (and run Leeching on the back bar) OR replace it with Killer's Blade (and run Relentless on the back bar). Keep everything else the same.

With both the DW and the SnB setups, you'd want to run the Immovable, Expedition and Stam pots. With the 2H/Bow setup, you'd want to run Immovable, Weapon Crit and Stam pots (or just tri-stats, but I doubt you'll need them considering your magicka consumption isn't very high.

How do you feel about 5/5/1 setups with masters bow/vAS 2h? Something like Bone Pirate+7th?

Betsararie

davey1107 wrote: »

*Quote*

I think my attitudes pretty good, but that aside.

I'm just not onboard with your suggestion of a non-viable playstyle.

If that is what you consider a good suggestion, I don't agree with you.

Recommending a new player a build that is one shotted in nearly every scenario is not beneficial.

By the way, you're talking to the roll dodge King. I'm the king of roll dodge. I have great roll dodging ability with stamblade.

The issue is that when you inevitably do get hit, you are likely to die unless it is in a 1v1.

So heavy armor really does complement the nightblade playstyle because you need that extra defense for tough opponents. Attacks do far too much damage now. I was hit with repeated 12K Warden Birds on my medium stamblade. (That is what drove me over the edge to switch to heavy). So all he has to do is hit me with 2 birds and I'm dead? Medium armor is literal garbage. I'd rather my toon go nude.

On my main I drop medium armor stamblades in roughly .00001 seconds, never seen anything die that fast and it is truly the worst spec in Cyro at this point. Not something to recommend to a newbie !!

Jjitsuboy98

Heavy armor is great. I like it way better than medium. I have 28 k resist on my shackle and bone pirate setup. 11 k surprise attacks and 20k merciless resolve.

Betsararie

One more thing to add and yet another massive issue I have with your post.

Having dodging/avoiding damage as your only means of mitigating damage, is absolutely not viable. That is the very reason that medium armor stamblade is a literal pile of garbage.

Everyone already knows that you should try to avoid damage as much as possible. Everyone more or less does try to do this. Of course, heavy builds won't be roll dodging as much as medium builds and they don't have shuffle, but they still do roll dodge sometime, and will make an attempt to avoid damage.

The greater issue is, it is not possible to avoid 100% of damage. You will get hit. And in the case of medium stamblade (sometimes referred to as garbo-spec), it's basically 2 shots and you're down. You can't really withstand more than that. And the 2 shots can be in rapid succession.

So, that is why good stamblades all now run heavy. No matter how good you are at dodging, cloaking (cloak is garbage by the way), it's just not enough you're bound to get hit or CCd, and then you're done. That is the precise reason why it is NOT a viable playstyle. There is no arguing this. I have taken on groups of 5 in Cyro on my medium stamblade build and killed them all, I still say the build isn't viable. You want to know why? Because none of those people were good. Face a decent player in medium and you will find yourself at a severe disadvantage. Good nightblades are all in heavy now, been that way for a while.

Icy_Waffles

I used to run a solo gankbuild with this nightblade. I never was one for proc sets, other than maybe velidreth. I understand some positioning and the idea of playing a nightblade with stealth.

However, due to the tankyness of most players, the gank stealthy playstyle seems to be not applicable. i was curious as to if i would be able to play my nightblade, which has a gap closer, and a moveset that I enjoy, while being able to take more hits. I had considered bone pirate and 7th legion. Regain, survival, and hopefully decent damage.

I havent gone intp pvp with my nightblade aince shadow pf the hists and i enjoyed the class for pvp. 690 cp.

Kram8ion

Heavy is more team oriented play style and medium is better solo gank

Publius_Scipio

I am a stam NB since the beginning. Only one character, haven’t even played the other classes. I think many of the posts in this thread are right, and there isn’t necessarily a wrong since it comes down to presonal preference.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I enjoy Cyrodiil big battles. I am solo but I like to jump into the rumble. I don’t like the wait and gank type of play. I use medium armor and there is no doubt about it, it can be rough when going up against groups of enemies. All the stuns, and knockbacks you get hit with. Not to mention cloak breaking for x amount of reasons.

ZOS made good effort with the most recent armor weight tweaks, but the benefits of heavy armor still outweigh those of medium. The simple act of equipping heavy armor makes life a lot easier for the player. Check out Gilliam the Rogue’s heavy armor DW stam NB in his YouTube channel.

Betsararie

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I am a stam NB since the beginning. Only one character, haven’t even played the other classes. I think many of the posts in this thread are right, and there isn’t necessarily a wrong since it comes down to presonal preference.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I enjoy Cyrodiil big battles. I am solo but I like to jump into the rumble. I don’t like the wait and gank type of play. I use medium armor and there is no doubt about it, it can be rough when going up against groups of enemies. All the stuns, and knockbacks you get hit with. Not to mention cloak breaking for x amount of reasons.

ZOS made good effort with the most recent armor weight tweaks, but the benefits of heavy armor still outweigh those of medium. The simple act of equipping heavy armor makes life a lot easier for the player. Check out Gilliam the Rogue’s heavy armor DW stam NB in his YouTube channel.

Yup, that build is insane. I've seen him absolutely wreck everyone within immediate vicinity with that build as well. He's acknowledged the advantage running heavy has given him on multiple occasions.

KingJ

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Heavy Armor Stamblade just feels wrong IMO. You don't have the innate tankiness of the other classes: no Major/Minor Healing Done/Received buffs, no Healing passives, no extra class heal, no extra resistances or blocking passives. But it can work since it has something other classes don't: Mirage/Double Take.

Frankly, you have a lot of options at this point. I'd still suggest sticking to the classic, 2H/Bow playstyle since that's what works best for Stamblades in general. All other setups just pale in comparison most of the time.

Now if you were to go down the 2H/Bow route this is what I would personally suggest:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager, 3 Agility, 2 Bloodspawn, Asylum 2H, Master's Bow. All tri-stat enchants, 2 weapon damage 1 recovery on the jewelry, and you'd want the Lava foot-soup and Saltrice food (Max Stam and Stam Recovery).
As far as skills go:
2H bar: Executionner, Crit Rush, Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Rally, Incap
Bow bar: Mirage, Shadow Image, Poison Injection, Vigor, Relentless Focus/Leeching Strikes, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista.
Playing without Cloak would be your best bet. The only downside of this build is the fact that you can't remove snares (which is also why Cloak will be useless most of the time).

The other option, and I've seen this work very well, is the DW/2H setup:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager (body and weapons), 5 Bone Pirate (jewelry and body), 2 Troll King (both in Heavy). Same thing as the 2H/Bow setup in terms of enchantments, the only thing that changes is the food: use Dubious drink.
DW Bar: Ambush, Mass Hysteria, Vigor, Surprise Attack, Deadly Cloak, Incap
2H Bar: Mirage, Forward Momentum, Shadow Image, Shadowy Disguise, Leeching Strikes/Relentless Focus, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista
The main benefit of this is the fact that you retain the mobility due to Forward Momentum, which allows you to use Cloak, which in turn allows you to heal better (since all your Vigor ticks will crit while in Cloak). Another benefit is the fast Heavy Attacks. I'd recommend going for the Tactitian CP passive to get the most benefit out of that, since HAs do 75% more damage to Off-Balance targets on top of the 10% extra damage from the Exploiter CP passive.
The only downside is the lack of a burst heal.

You could do a similar thing as the DW/2H setup with a SnB/2H setup, just replace Deadly Cloak with Relentless Focus (and run Leeching on the back bar) OR replace it with Killer's Blade (and run Relentless on the back bar). Keep everything else the same.

With both the DW and the SnB setups, you'd want to run the Immovable, Expedition and Stam pots. With the 2H/Bow setup, you'd want to run Immovable, Weapon Crit and Stam pots (or just tri-stats, but I doubt you'll need them considering your magicka consumption isn't very high.

How do you feel about 5/5/1 setups with masters bow/vAS 2h? Something like Bone Pirate+7th?

I used 5 bone 5 7th master bow.Don't have a group to get a perfect 2h with but I liked it.Only could test it in duels and BGs.

Publius_Scipio

Blanco wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I am a stam NB since the beginning. Only one character, haven’t even played the other classes. I think many of the posts in this thread are right, and there isn’t necessarily a wrong since it comes down to presonal preference.

Trying to be as objective as possible, I enjoy Cyrodiil big battles. I am solo but I like to jump into the rumble. I don’t like the wait and gank type of play. I use medium armor and there is no doubt about it, it can be rough when going up against groups of enemies. All the stuns, and knockbacks you get hit with. Not to mention cloak breaking for x amount of reasons.

ZOS made good effort with the most recent armor weight tweaks, but the benefits of heavy armor still outweigh those of medium. The simple act of equipping heavy armor makes life a lot easier for the player. Check out Gilliam the Rogue’s heavy armor DW stam NB in his YouTube channel.

Yup, that build is insane. I've seen him absolutely wreck everyone within immediate vicinity with that build as well. He's acknowledged the advantage running heavy has given him on multiple occasions.

Gilliam is no ordinary soul walking Tamriel. Probably aedra having taken corporeal form.

doslekis

Blanco wrote: »

Considering medium armor is unplayable you have no choice. Anyone who is still saying medium armor stamblade is viable in PvP is wrong. Flat out wrong it's garbage. Medium armor stamblade is the easiest to kill class in PvP by far, not even close. Staying alive is not possible, it has nothing to do with skill, your only option is dying but you may get some kills along the way if you find bad players.

There is nothing worse you can do for yourself than run medium armor, which is unplayable.

The only viable way to play stamblade is to wear heavy. This is not debatable. Stamblade in heavy currently performs very well in the right hands.

The only conceivable way to run medium would be some combination of chudan, fortified brass etc, but you will be sacrificing a lot of damage just to get your resistances in the heavy armor range. You aren't sacrificing damage running heavy if you build correctly.

I respectfully disagree. In open world cyrodiil pvp medium armor is definitely viable. You just have to play smart, and not play like your wearing heavy armor.

Mobility, with constant movement, along with strong situational awareness is the way to play medium. With the bow roll dodge, great sustain, and especially cloak, you have the ability to stay on the outside of battles, and choose the right time and target to strike. Quickly go in and burst, and if you don't succeed you have many great defensive tools such as fear, shuffle, and roll dodge to get back to the outskirts of the fight.

Even in 1v1 in open world, the mobility of medium armor allows you to run circles around the majority of slow, mobility lacking, heavy armor opponents, whose only sustain is based around heavy attacks most of the time. If they can't land a heavy attack, and you keep dwindling their stamina through fear and Incaps, you will be able to finish the fight.

The only place I have trouble with, and don't believe medium is a great choice is battlegrounds. The objective based game modes, and lack of open spaces to run around in makes medium a poor choice in a game where standing your ground wins the fight. This is why you see so many heavy armor, permablock type builds, who win games by camping objectives and simply surviving.

KingJ

I say its playstyle preference I like to play a brawler type fighter and heavy allows me to do that while Meduim on the otherhand doesn't allow me to do that.

Betsararie

doslekis wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Considering medium armor is unplayable you have no choice. Anyone who is still saying medium armor stamblade is viable in PvP is wrong. Flat out wrong it's garbage. Medium armor stamblade is the easiest to kill class in PvP by far, not even close. Staying alive is not possible, it has nothing to do with skill, your only option is dying but you may get some kills along the way if you find bad players.

There is nothing worse you can do for yourself than run medium armor, which is unplayable.

The only viable way to play stamblade is to wear heavy. This is not debatable. Stamblade in heavy currently performs very well in the right hands.

The only conceivable way to run medium would be some combination of chudan, fortified brass etc, but you will be sacrificing a lot of damage just to get your resistances in the heavy armor range. You aren't sacrificing damage running heavy if you build correctly.

I respectfully disagree. In open world cyrodiil pvp medium armor is definitely viable. You just have to play smart, and not play like your wearing heavy armor.

Mobility, with constant movement, along with strong situational awareness is the way to play medium. With the bow roll dodge, great sustain, and especially cloak, you have the ability to stay on the outside of battles, and choose the right time and target to strike. Quickly go in and burst, and if you don't succeed you have many great defensive tools such as fear, shuffle, and roll dodge to get back to the outskirts of the fight.

Even in 1v1 in open world, the mobility of medium armor allows you to run circles around the majority of slow, mobility lacking, heavy armor opponents, whose only sustain is based around heavy attacks most of the time. If they can't land a heavy attack, and you keep dwindling their stamina through fear and Incaps, you will be able to finish the fight.

The only place I have trouble with, and don't believe medium is a great choice is battlegrounds. The objective based game modes, and lack of open spaces to run around in makes medium a poor choice in a game where standing your ground wins the fight. This is why you see so many heavy armor, permablock type builds, who win games by camping objectives and simply surviving.

Right, the thing with running medium in Cyro is it is doable, you do have to stay on the outskirts of fights and pick your opponents, go in the for the burst and then go out quick. True 1v1s are your bread and butter, that is one of the scenarios with the best possible odds of you winning. Cloak can/will work wonders.

This is the "classic" nightblade playstyle, and can be done it's something I've done many times. The problem is if just one person is able to land a hit on you or CC, you're dead in many instances.

I also enjoy brawling which is impossible on medium.

I may have gotten carried away in hyperbole, in Cyro it can be done but again I argue it is not viable because if one person lands a hit on you, you have too great a chance of dying compared to every other popular setup. I would grant it 35% viability in Cyro in the hands of a skilled player. (with pet sorc, stamden being 100%).

I would grant it 0% viability in BGs- impossible and unplayable.

Lexxypwns

KingJ wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Heavy Armor Stamblade just feels wrong IMO. You don't have the innate tankiness of the other classes: no Major/Minor Healing Done/Received buffs, no Healing passives, no extra class heal, no extra resistances or blocking passives. But it can work since it has something other classes don't: Mirage/Double Take.

Frankly, you have a lot of options at this point. I'd still suggest sticking to the classic, 2H/Bow playstyle since that's what works best for Stamblades in general. All other setups just pale in comparison most of the time.

Now if you were to go down the 2H/Bow route this is what I would personally suggest:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager, 3 Agility, 2 Bloodspawn, Asylum 2H, Master's Bow. All tri-stat enchants, 2 weapon damage 1 recovery on the jewelry, and you'd want the Lava foot-soup and Saltrice food (Max Stam and Stam Recovery).
As far as skills go:
2H bar: Executionner, Crit Rush, Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Rally, Incap
Bow bar: Mirage, Shadow Image, Poison Injection, Vigor, Relentless Focus/Leeching Strikes, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista.
Playing without Cloak would be your best bet. The only downside of this build is the fact that you can't remove snares (which is also why Cloak will be useless most of the time).

The other option, and I've seen this work very well, is the DW/2H setup:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager (body and weapons), 5 Bone Pirate (jewelry and body), 2 Troll King (both in Heavy). Same thing as the 2H/Bow setup in terms of enchantments, the only thing that changes is the food: use Dubious drink.
DW Bar: Ambush, Mass Hysteria, Vigor, Surprise Attack, Deadly Cloak, Incap
2H Bar: Mirage, Forward Momentum, Shadow Image, Shadowy Disguise, Leeching Strikes/Relentless Focus, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista
The main benefit of this is the fact that you retain the mobility due to Forward Momentum, which allows you to use Cloak, which in turn allows you to heal better (since all your Vigor ticks will crit while in Cloak). Another benefit is the fast Heavy Attacks. I'd recommend going for the Tactitian CP passive to get the most benefit out of that, since HAs do 75% more damage to Off-Balance targets on top of the 10% extra damage from the Exploiter CP passive.
The only downside is the lack of a burst heal.

You could do a similar thing as the DW/2H setup with a SnB/2H setup, just replace Deadly Cloak with Relentless Focus (and run Leeching on the back bar) OR replace it with Killer's Blade (and run Relentless on the back bar). Keep everything else the same.

With both the DW and the SnB setups, you'd want to run the Immovable, Expedition and Stam pots. With the 2H/Bow setup, you'd want to run Immovable, Weapon Crit and Stam pots (or just tri-stats, but I doubt you'll need them considering your magicka consumption isn't very high.

How do you feel about 5/5/1 setups with masters bow/vAS 2h? Something like Bone Pirate+7th?

I used 5 bone 5 7th master bow.Don't have a group to get a perfect 2h with but I liked it.Only could test it in duels and BGs.

Should be ~5300 weapon damage on targets with poison injection and you’ll have good Max Stam and recovery. Constitution should help sustain your magika I’d think.

KingJ

Lexxypwns wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Heavy Armor Stamblade just feels wrong IMO. You don't have the innate tankiness of the other classes: no Major/Minor Healing Done/Received buffs, no Healing passives, no extra class heal, no extra resistances or blocking passives. But it can work since it has something other classes don't: Mirage/Double Take.

Frankly, you have a lot of options at this point. I'd still suggest sticking to the classic, 2H/Bow playstyle since that's what works best for Stamblades in general. All other setups just pale in comparison most of the time.

Now if you were to go down the 2H/Bow route this is what I would personally suggest:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager, 3 Agility, 2 Bloodspawn, Asylum 2H, Master's Bow. All tri-stat enchants, 2 weapon damage 1 recovery on the jewelry, and you'd want the Lava foot-soup and Saltrice food (Max Stam and Stam Recovery).
As far as skills go:
2H bar: Executionner, Crit Rush, Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Rally, Incap
Bow bar: Mirage, Shadow Image, Poison Injection, Vigor, Relentless Focus/Leeching Strikes, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista.
Playing without Cloak would be your best bet. The only downside of this build is the fact that you can't remove snares (which is also why Cloak will be useless most of the time).

The other option, and I've seen this work very well, is the DW/2H setup:
5 Seventh Legion or 5 Armor of Truth or 5 Ravager (body and weapons), 5 Bone Pirate (jewelry and body), 2 Troll King (both in Heavy). Same thing as the 2H/Bow setup in terms of enchantments, the only thing that changes is the food: use Dubious drink.
DW Bar: Ambush, Mass Hysteria, Vigor, Surprise Attack, Deadly Cloak, Incap
2H Bar: Mirage, Forward Momentum, Shadow Image, Shadowy Disguise, Leeching Strikes/Relentless Focus, Soul Tether/Flawless DB/Ballista
The main benefit of this is the fact that you retain the mobility due to Forward Momentum, which allows you to use Cloak, which in turn allows you to heal better (since all your Vigor ticks will crit while in Cloak). Another benefit is the fast Heavy Attacks. I'd recommend going for the Tactitian CP passive to get the most benefit out of that, since HAs do 75% more damage to Off-Balance targets on top of the 10% extra damage from the Exploiter CP passive.
The only downside is the lack of a burst heal.

You could do a similar thing as the DW/2H setup with a SnB/2H setup, just replace Deadly Cloak with Relentless Focus (and run Leeching on the back bar) OR replace it with Killer's Blade (and run Relentless on the back bar). Keep everything else the same.

With both the DW and the SnB setups, you'd want to run the Immovable, Expedition and Stam pots. With the 2H/Bow setup, you'd want to run Immovable, Weapon Crit and Stam pots (or just tri-stats, but I doubt you'll need them considering your magicka consumption isn't very high.

How do you feel about 5/5/1 setups with masters bow/vAS 2h? Something like Bone Pirate+7th?

I used 5 bone 5 7th master bow.Don't have a group to get a perfect 2h with but I liked it.Only could test it in duels and BGs.

Should be ~5300 weapon damage on targets with poison injection and you’ll have good Max Stam and recovery. Constitution should help sustain your magika I’d think.

I'll have to check again in the morning but its around that.It hits really hard.The magic sustain is iffy at times.I can usually manage unless in really long fights or BG IVX when enemy teams can quickly get back into the fight.

RouDeR

My khajit NB werewolf wearing Willols Path in Invigorating trait + Trainee 5 piece and troll king is doing outstanding . But this is Specificaly For WW .

GrumpyDuckling

Blanco wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

*Quote*

I think my attitudes pretty good, but that aside.

I'm just not onboard with your suggestion of a non-viable playstyle.

If that is what you consider a good suggestion, I don't agree with you.

Recommending a new player a build that is one shotted in nearly every scenario is not beneficial.

By the way, you're talking to the roll dodge King. I'm the king of roll dodge. I have great roll dodging ability with stamblade.

The issue is that when you inevitably do get hit, you are likely to die unless it is in a 1v1.

So heavy armor really does complement the nightblade playstyle because you need that extra defense for tough opponents. Attacks do far too much damage now. I was hit with repeated 12K Warden Birds on my medium stamblade. (That is what drove me over the edge to switch to heavy). So all he has to do is hit me with 2 birds and I'm dead? Medium armor is literal garbage. I'd rather my toon go nude.

On my main I drop medium armor stamblades in roughly .00001 seconds, never seen anything die that fast and it is truly the worst spec in Cyro at this point. Not something to recommend to a newbie !!

Such hyperbole.

Of course you would rather wear medium armor than no armor.

KingJ

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

*Quote*

I think my attitudes pretty good, but that aside.

I'm just not onboard with your suggestion of a non-viable playstyle.

If that is what you consider a good suggestion, I don't agree with you.

Recommending a new player a build that is one shotted in nearly every scenario is not beneficial.

By the way, you're talking to the roll dodge King. I'm the king of roll dodge. I have great roll dodging ability with stamblade.

The issue is that when you inevitably do get hit, you are likely to die unless it is in a 1v1.

So heavy armor really does complement the nightblade playstyle because you need that extra defense for tough opponents. Attacks do far too much damage now. I was hit with repeated 12K Warden Birds on my medium stamblade. (That is what drove me over the edge to switch to heavy). So all he has to do is hit me with 2 birds and I'm dead? Medium armor is literal garbage. I'd rather my toon go nude.

On my main I drop medium armor stamblades in roughly .00001 seconds, never seen anything die that fast and it is truly the worst spec in Cyro at this point. Not something to recommend to a newbie !!

Such hyperbole.

Of course you would rather wear medium armor than no armor.

Well he right cloak does allow you to deal with all theBS Meduim has to deal with which is why only stamblade can really use it.With shade being broken you have to rally on cloak which still break because of stupid crap at times.When you can't cloak you have to deal with all the hard hitting undodgeable attacks.

Which is why i say heavy is better overall even without shuffle.

Izaki

Blanco wrote: »

Considering medium armor is unplayable you have no choice. Anyone who is still saying medium armor stamblade is viable in PvP is wrong. Flat out wrong it's garbage. Medium armor stamblade is the easiest to kill class in PvP by far, not even close. Staying alive is not possible, it has nothing to do with skill, your only option is dying but you may get some kills along the way if you find bad players.

There is nothing worse you can do for yourself than run medium armor, which is unplayable.

The only viable way to play stamblade is to wear heavy. This is not debatable. Stamblade in heavy currently performs very well in the right hands.

The only conceivable way to run medium would be some combination of chudan, fortified brass etc, but you will be sacrificing a lot of damage just to get your resistances in the heavy armor range. You aren't sacrificing damage running heavy if you build correctly.

What a load of crap. Unless of course you willingly exaggerated every single point that you made to ridiculous proportions.

Just the fact that you mention Chudan makes me laugh. Why? Because it provides a Major Resistance buff that EVERY class has access to. What's even funnier, is that NBs get those buffs through a passive, which works based on the activation of Surprise Attack (your spammable damage ability), Mass Hysteria (your main CC), Shadow Image (your getaway) and Cloak. Safe to say that Major Resolve and Major Ward are up 100% of the time or very close to it, without any need for Chudan. No class needs to run Chudan, its a terrible set. And by the way, with Blood Spawn proc'ed (which is about 90% of the time when outnumbered), I have 27k resistances. That's just as much as you'd have in heavy armor. And it also helps your burst when outnumbered since it gives you 14 ultimate every time it procs, which means you get your Incap quicker, which means you have more quick kill opportunities.

If you can't play medium armor Stamblade, I get it. But claiming that its the absolute best? Hell no. Both playstyles have their benefits, but they are fundamentally different, therefore, there is no such thing as an absolute best. There is however the fact that one fits the class much better than the other.

And roll dodge is far from being the only defense. Medium armor builds can block too, you know. In fact, with 3k recovery, one would be a fool not to utilise it to your advantage and "tap-block" often. On top of that, you have Major Evasion, Shadow Image and of course Cloak. Now, obviously, Shadow Image and Cloak are bugged at the moment, but that's a different discussion.

And adding on to that: I play BGs every day, in medium armor without a gap closer. Its more than fine.

Betsararie

KingJ wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

*Quote*

I think my attitudes pretty good, but that aside.

I'm just not onboard with your suggestion of a non-viable playstyle.

If that is what you consider a good suggestion, I don't agree with you.

Recommending a new player a build that is one shotted in nearly every scenario is not beneficial.

By the way, you're talking to the roll dodge King. I'm the king of roll dodge. I have great roll dodging ability with stamblade.

The issue is that when you inevitably do get hit, you are likely to die unless it is in a 1v1.

So heavy armor really does complement the nightblade playstyle because you need that extra defense for tough opponents. Attacks do far too much damage now. I was hit with repeated 12K Warden Birds on my medium stamblade. (That is what drove me over the edge to switch to heavy). So all he has to do is hit me with 2 birds and I'm dead? Medium armor is literal garbage. I'd rather my toon go nude.

On my main I drop medium armor stamblades in roughly .00001 seconds, never seen anything die that fast and it is truly the worst spec in Cyro at this point. Not something to recommend to a newbie !!

Such hyperbole.

Of course you would rather wear medium armor than no armor.

Well he right cloak does allow you to deal with all theBS Meduim has to deal with which is why only stamblade can really use it.With shade being broken you have to rally on cloak which still break because of stupid crap at times.When you can't cloak you have to deal with all the hard hitting undodgeable attacks.

Which is why i say heavy is better overall even without shuffle.

yeah.... you can't rely on cloak. It's too broken. If you want a solid reliable build with nightblade, all things considered I don't see medium being the answer.

You can make a glass cannon ganker build, like I did and get some kills here and there even some 1vXs, but it doesn't mean anything because as soon as you're faced with a real challenge or 'overwhelming' odds, you'll likely get bodied, lest you stay in the shadows and bide your time for an opportune gank. And then you're not even really in the fight, you're just that annoying nightblade hiding in the shadows hoping to prey on someone who is in the fight, which by the way with Miat's is something that is increasingly easy to prevent.

With heavy you can be in the fight, you can cloak, get out, replenish and go back in. You have so many more options. You can totally play a classic nightblade style in heavy if you spec correctly- and you'll have survivability. That is why I'm firmly against medium, I really do struggle with seeing a solid argument for running it. The advantage of reduced roll dodge cost just does not make up for the squishiness, not even remotely.

Vizier

Depends on what you are trying to do.

If you are going with a bow gank or melee gank, hit n run you can get big hits using some medium armor sets. I really like Spriggans and Hundings Rage. You can experiment with other set combinations using Morag Tong and Marksman. If you have an elusive play style with good situational awareness and are OK with picking and choosing your targets you can have a great deal of fun with a Stamblade Bow/2H or DW/DH build. You just have to be very fluid and disciplined not to be caught. If you are you will die. I'll spend hours at a time soloing my Khajiit NB, getting kills and rarely die. Maybe 1 or 2 a night. Stealth, speed and situational awareness are your friends. Cloak, Vampirism, double_take and use of a magicka potion to get a couple more casts of cloak off will keep you out of LOS most times.

If you want to be a more in your face, survivable NB, some of the above suggestions are very good and practical advice.

Betsararie

Izaki wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Considering medium armor is unplayable you have no choice. Anyone who is still saying medium armor stamblade is viable in PvP is wrong. Flat out wrong it's garbage. Medium armor stamblade is the easiest to kill class in PvP by far, not even close. Staying alive is not possible, it has nothing to do with skill, your only option is dying but you may get some kills along the way if you find bad players.

There is nothing worse you can do for yourself than run medium armor, which is unplayable.

The only viable way to play stamblade is to wear heavy. This is not debatable. Stamblade in heavy currently performs very well in the right hands.

The only conceivable way to run medium would be some combination of chudan, fortified brass etc, but you will be sacrificing a lot of damage just to get your resistances in the heavy armor range. You aren't sacrificing damage running heavy if you build correctly.

What a load of crap. Unless of course you willingly exaggerated every single point that you made to ridiculous proportions.

Just the fact that you mention Chudan makes me laugh. Why? Because it provides a Major Resistance buff that EVERY class has access to. What's even funnier, is that NBs get those buffs through a passive, which works based on the activation of Surprise Attack (your spammable damage ability), Mass Hysteria (your main CC), Shadow Image (your getaway) and Cloak. Safe to say that Major Resolve and Major Ward are up 100% of the time or very close to it, without any need for Chudan. No class needs to run Chudan, its a terrible set. And by the way, with Blood Spawn proc'ed (which is about 90% of the time when outnumbered), I have 27k resistances. That's just as much as you'd have in heavy armor. And it also helps your burst when outnumbered since it gives you 14 ultimate every time it procs, which means you get your Incap quicker, which means you have more quick kill opportunities.

If you can't play medium armor Stamblade, I get it. But claiming that its the absolute best? Hell no. Both playstyles have their benefits, but they are fundamentally different, therefore, there is no such thing as an absolute best. There is however the fact that one fits the class much better than the other.

And roll dodge is far from being the only defense. Medium armor builds can block too, you know. In fact, with 3k recovery, one would be a fool not to utilise it to your advantage and "tap-block" often. On top of that, you have Major Evasion, Shadow Image and of course Cloak. Now, obviously, Shadow Image and Cloak are bugged at the moment, but that's a different discussion.

And adding on to that: I play BGs every day, in medium armor without a gap closer. Its more than fine.

But if you would just run heavy, you'd find that it works even better.

You are so quick to jump the gun, I am referring only to 1 piece chudan which is useable for any build.

It may be viable on EU, but I can tell you that I do not take medium armor stamblades seriously. They are too squishy. I generally kill them extremely quickly.

After playing a medium stamblade with 3k recovery. 4.2k weapon damage 38k stam, I can tell you it is seriously awful.

I've run blood spawn, selene's, and tried different combinations all are sub optimal. There is a very good reason why heavy armor is the meta. Best to slot heavy, gives you more options for playstyle without sacrificing damage.

Publius_Scipio

@Gilliamtherogue explains armor weight differences the best imo. More specifically why heavy armor is still outperforming medium in many situations.

SmellyUnlimited

Blanco wrote: »

One more thing to add and yet another massive issue I have with your post.

Having dodging/avoiding damage as your only means of mitigating damage, is absolutely not viable. That is the very reason that medium armor stamblade is a literal pile of garbage.

Everyone already knows that you should try to avoid damage as much as possible. Everyone more or less does try to do this. Of course, heavy builds won't be roll dodging as much as medium builds and they don't have shuffle, but they still do roll dodge sometime, and will make an attempt to avoid damage.

The greater issue is, it is not possible to avoid 100% of damage. You will get hit. And in the case of medium stamblade (sometimes referred to as garbo-spec), it's basically 2 shots and you're down. You can't really withstand more than that. And the 2 shots can be in rapid succession.

So, that is why good stamblades all now run heavy. No matter how good you are at dodging, cloaking (cloak is garbage by the way), it's just not enough you're bound to get hit or CCd, and then you're done. That is the precise reason why it is NOT a viable playstyle. There is no arguing this. I have taken on groups of 5 in Cyro on my medium stamblade build and killed them all, I still say the build isn't viable. You want to know why? Because none of those people were good. Face a decent player in medium and you will find yourself at a severe disadvantage. Good nightblades are all in heavy now, been that way for a while.

Have to go with Blanco. Nightblade main, and I’ve tried all the popular 5 piece medium sets. Not only am I doing more damage in heavy, but I can survive a CRAP TON of damage. Yes, still dodge roll to win, and I keep Mirage up (only class that can wear heavy armor and STILL have access to minor evasion WITH minor ward). You need look no further than Gilliam the Rogue for nightblade PvP goodness. He is the top nightblade player on PC NA, and has builds for stam, mag, and even sap tank, that are the cream of the crop.

For the guy with 500 hours in PvP with a medium stamblade....how many of those hours were spent dead/riding back to your group?

SmellyUnlimited

Quick question - how are Shadow image and cloak broken? I heard surprise attack was also broken. Do ANY NB skills work!? Lol

geonsocal

RouDeR wrote: »

My khajit NB werewolf wearing Willols Path in Invigorating trait + Trainee 5 piece and troll king is doing outstanding . But this is Specificaly For WW .

party foul for having a unique and interesting build

KingJ

Blanco wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

*Quote*

I think my attitudes pretty good, but that aside.

I'm just not onboard with your suggestion of a non-viable playstyle.

If that is what you consider a good suggestion, I don't agree with you.

Recommending a new player a build that is one shotted in nearly every scenario is not beneficial.

By the way, you're talking to the roll dodge King. I'm the king of roll dodge. I have great roll dodging ability with stamblade.

The issue is that when you inevitably do get hit, you are likely to die unless it is in a 1v1.

So heavy armor really does complement the nightblade playstyle because you need that extra defense for tough opponents. Attacks do far too much damage now. I was hit with repeated 12K Warden Birds on my medium stamblade. (That is what drove me over the edge to switch to heavy). So all he has to do is hit me with 2 birds and I'm dead? Medium armor is literal garbage. I'd rather my toon go nude.

On my main I drop medium armor stamblades in roughly .00001 seconds, never seen anything die that fast and it is truly the worst spec in Cyro at this point. Not something to recommend to a newbie !!

Such hyperbole.

Of course you would rather wear medium armor than no armor.

Well he right cloak does allow you to deal with all theBS Meduim has to deal with which is why only stamblade can really use it.With shade being broken you have to rally on cloak which still break because of stupid crap at times.When you can't cloak you have to deal with all the hard hitting undodgeable attacks.

Which is why i say heavy is better overall even without shuffle.

yeah.... you can't rely on cloak. It's too broken. If you want a solid reliable build with nightblade, all things considered I don't see medium being the answer.

You can make a glass cannon ganker build, like I did and get some kills here and there even some 1vXs, but it doesn't mean anything because as soon as you're faced with a real challenge or 'overwhelming' odds, you'll likely get bodied, lest you stay in the shadows and bide your time for an opportune gank. And then you're not even really in the fight, you're just that annoying nightblade hiding in the shadows hoping to prey on someone who is in the fight, which by the way with Miat's is something that is increasingly easy to prevent.

With heavy you can be in the fight, you can cloak, get out, replenish and go back in. You have so many more options. You can totally play a classic nightblade style in heavy if you spec correctly- and you'll have survivability. That is why I'm firmly against medium, I really do struggle with seeing a solid argument for running it. The advantage of reduced roll dodge cost just does not make up for the squishiness, not even remotely.

Completely agreed you get more damage and can outlive most other Nightblades.