Can we disassociate snares from damage?

Strider__Roshin

Snares in this game are miserable, and not fun. Not only do I think they need to be toned down, but if you're going to have them they need to from non-damaging attacks. Right not it feels like snares are attached to everything just because.

ak_pvp

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

DeadlyRecluse

Daus wrote: »

Snares in this game are miserable, and not fun. Not only do I think they need to be toned down, but if you're going to have them they need to from non-damaging attacks. Right not it feels like snares are attached to everything just because.

Agreed. Far too many skills give "free" snares, it's pretty rare that a skill is used specifically to apply a snare.

I had a long rant on this that I'm not going to bother reposting, but basically if you are fighting a templar, DK, or nightblade you are living in constantly reapplied snares.

I main magplar. I have access to some incredible free snares AND two of the best snare removal options (mistform and extended ritual) and I don't like the snareiness of the game.

It also further disadvantages small group and solo players (who won't get group rapids+purges ameliorating the issue nearly as much), but even disregarding that, it's frustrating design.

raasdal

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

Major / Minor "Hindrance" is the best solution IMO as well. And setting it up to match Major/Minor Expedition is actually a no-brainer in my mind. I think Snares are one of the only debuffs left, that are not within the Minor/Major system right? If they did that, they could keep all the skills as they are.

If you want to stand any chance for survival as a Stam character, you need to use either Shuffle or FM. That locks everyone but Stamplar into either Medium or 2H, unless they like to be permanetly doing the slowmo. It is ***.

Baconlad

I would rather puncturing sweeps give a speed boost than snare. So many players in PvP are stamina. They are the ones i try to lock down with snares...but they are snare imune 90% of the time. Only find snares to work good against other magplars...

CatchMeTrolling

To be honest snares, roots and ccs aren't typically attached to anything that does decent damage so I don't know what the devs were thinking.

Strider__Roshin

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

That would be the most logical solution.

Waffennacht

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

Ankael07

Removing snares would remove a layer of depth from the combat. Give magicka players a proper snare resist/purge instead. Since stamina already has retreating maneuver, forward momentum and gap closers.

Something like snare resistance or speed bonus to Streak and DK Chains would be a nice start.

idk

Daus wrote: »

Snares in this game are miserable, and not fun. Not only do I think they need to be toned down, but if you're going to have them they need to from non-damaging attacks. Right not it feels like snares are attached to everything just because.

I had thought most snares can be removed. As long as their is a counter I do not see the issue with this. Stam builds probably have it better for countering snares.

Besides, In most games I have seen skills that snare commonly have a damage component tied to the skill.

Derra

100% agreed.
If a skills primary function is to impair movement it should only deal minimal dmg.
A skill that deals high dmg or provides other debuffs/combat perks (especially gapclosers) should not provide additional snare.

BaByDontHurtMe

Snares are fine, helps kill the trains starting from the back

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

well think the argument can go both ways; if a snare removal can't be tied to damage, it shouldn't be tied to defensive abilities either. Rapids is a great example of a spamable snare removal tool that isn't DMG or defensive. Same goes for forward momentum, but it does give a major buff, but at least it doesn't do any DMG and you have to give up the burst heal.

I think we can give both Stam and mag classes reasonable snare protection without being DMG or defensive. Mist form counters forward momentum for both architypes.

Waffennacht

Minno wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

well think the argument can go both ways; if a snare removal can't be tied to damage, it shouldn't be tied to defensive abilities either. Rapids is a great example of a spamable snare removal tool that isn't DMG or defensive. Same goes for forward momentum, but it does give a major buff, but at least it doesn't do any DMG and you have to give up the burst heal.

I think we can give both Stam and mag classes reasonable snare protection without being DMG or defensive. Mist form counters forward momentum for both architypes.

If the costs weren't so darn high for mag spec's

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

I don´t agree with this statement because most good players argue not for the complete removal of snares but rather advocade snares shouldn´t be added on top of every skill just because.

As a sorc to get a proper CC i have to slot runeprison. I have to give up a skillslot for that + it is insanely expensive - and that´s how it should be for powerful snares aswell.
You want a powerful snare you give up something else for it. Right now you just get it for free added on top of already useful abilities (vampires bane, lowslash, fear, assassins will, warmth, lotusfan, stampede - especially the latter two because an ability that instantly gets you into melee range does imho not also need to provide you with a snare that ensures your target never gets out of melee range ever again).

gabriebe

I would be happy with removing snares from every single NPC in PvE land.

In PvP... I don`t know. The LoS BS is alrdy high enough, I don`t think we need any nerf to what can slow tree huggers and tower runners.

Wreuntzylla

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

To be honest snares, roots and ccs aren't typically attached to anything that does decent damage so I don't know what the devs were thinking.

The same thing they were thinking when they decided that defense should be based on the primary dps stat.

idk

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

A good player knows how to deal with and counter snares. They have no reason to complain about snares.

Some players that have yet to figure it out search for the answer. Others ask for a nerf.

Waffennacht

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

Drummerx04

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

Waffennacht

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

All that's cool and all, but when you face players like @zParallaxz @Lexxypwns Gessner etc, you NEED to impair their movement or it's gg

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

All that's cool and all, but when you face players like @zParallaxz @Lexxypwns Gessner etc, you NEED to impair their movement or it's gg

I run some form of snare immunity on all my builds, it’s a must.

Nerfing snares would just detach my stam build from forward momentum

idk

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

All that's cool and all, but when you face players like @zParallaxz @Lexxypwns Gessner etc, you NEED to impair their movement or it's gg

I run some form of snare immunity on all my builds, it’s a must.

Exactly the point I was making. There are counters to the snares. Use them or enjoy the snare.

There is not need for the nerf OP is calling for. Use skills to protect and remove snares. They are available for magicka and stamina.

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

Because you understand how snares work.

Nerfing snares would absolutely destroy class balance. Snares are a prerequisite both for doing melee dmg as well as for avoiding melee dmg, and they’re selectively given to the classes that need them..

TheDoomsdayMonster

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

100% agreed...

pieratsos

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling this thread is mostly good players that know snares is what hinders their ability to avoid attacks and LoS and are advocating a change that'll make them nearly impossible to kill?

Because you understand how snares work.

Snares are a prerequisite both for doing melee dmg as well as for avoiding melee dmg, and they should be carefully given to the classes that need them to promote skillful gameplay. Not midlessly given to prety much every single build in the entire game by having them attached on every single skill line and abilities that make zero sense to have snares attached to them in the first place.

There, fixed it for you.

CatchMeTrolling

I don’t think anyone said nerf snares but to not add them to skills that does decent damage, snares, ccs and roots should be in the damage range as talons if anything. You should have to make a choice to apply these when you’re doing your rotation, as it is right now you can spam a damage ability to snare someone.

I don’t know how many of you played other mmos or mobas but the way zos goes about introducing these is pretty silly in comparison, this is not even including the fact we have no cool downs. You don’t have to nerf them, you need to change how they’re used and make it more skillful.

Zos need to follow this model if they want to associate them with damage.

Snare = Ritual

Root = Talons

Cc = Invigorating drain

Thogard

Prekiting is not a thing in this game because short range attacks and melee focused classes apply snares, and long range stuff doesn’t.

The few exceptions to this usually do trade off damage or sacrifice a gap closer.

I can’t think of any snare that doesn’t belong on an ability atm.

If they gave ranged casters snares or if they removed snares from close range, it would seriously imbalance the game’s currently amazing balance between range and melee. The only one that’s a little out of place is hidden blade IMO, but that skill is far too expensive to spam anyway.

Datthaw

idk wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

All that's cool and all, but when you face players like @zParallaxz @Lexxypwns Gessner etc, you NEED to impair their movement or it's gg

I run some form of snare immunity on all my builds, it’s a must.

Exactly the point I was making. There are counters to the snares. Use them or enjoy the snare.

There is not need for the nerf OP is calling for. Use skills to protect and remove snares. They are available for magicka and stamina.

Not all classes have access to snare removal though. Not saying we need to nerf but not everyone can pop shuffle or drop an aoe clense like a templar. Magnb my only snare removal is pots or mist and mist is not ideal when other classes have such easy access to a purge.
Pots however seem to be broken. I was popping them last night in cyro trying to break vamps bane and get away from a ball zerg. They couldn't cc me anymore but the initial long slow from vamps bane snare remained. Maybe I'm missing something but that resulted in a dirt nap

Lord-Otto

You mean Immo pots? They only prevent hard CCs like stuns. Soft CCs like roots and snares are not affected.

Lexxypwns

Datthaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

As a mag warden... I really wanna snare you

But can't

So you settle for undogeable ranged spam skills, AoE conal high damage CC, projectile shields, powerful heals, and like every buff available in the game?

ak_pvp wrote: »

A maj/min snare of 30% and 10% (counter to expedition) should be a decent change. Would allow better purging, and limit the cancer.

No more 70% bollocks, or make it only working whilst an active ability is on you. (i.e. soul assault and inside eruption)

Also add more mag snare removals. Mist is trash.

The main reason I have mist form on my bar is for snare removal, but it's effectively just a delaying turtle tactic when trying to outrun snare spam. I'd be happy to see baleful mist replaced with an insta cast 5 second buff that just provides snare immunity and minor protection or something.

Snares are beyond annoying. At least I can dodge roll out of roots and be immune for 2 seconds. No such mechanic for snares.

All that's cool and all, but when you face players like @zParallaxz @Lexxypwns Gessner etc, you NEED to impair their movement or it's gg

I run some form of snare immunity on all my builds, it’s a must.

Exactly the point I was making. There are counters to the snares. Use them or enjoy the snare.

There is not need for the nerf OP is calling for. Use skills to protect and remove snares. They are available for magicka and stamina.

Not all classes have access to snare removal though. Not saying we need to nerf but not everyone can pop shuffle or drop an aoe clense like a templar. Magnb my only snare removal is pots or mist and mist is not ideal when other classes have such easy access to a purge.
Pots however seem to be broken. I was popping them last night in cyro trying to break vamps bane and get away from a ball zerg. They couldn't cc me anymore but the initial long slow from vamps bane snare remained. Maybe I'm missing something but that resulted in a dirt nap

Wrong, all classes have access to snare/root removal AND immunity without mist form.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

You mean Immo pots? They only prevent hard CCs like stuns. Soft CCs like roots and snares are not affected.

Poisons