FAKE TANKS everywhere - ZOS please TAUNT CHECK

Valykc

VaranisArano wrote: »

Look, we all know normal dungeons can be run with 4 DDs. I've done it. We all know normal dungoens can be soloed. I've done that too.

Its still EASIER and FASTER if someone slots a TAUNT!

The boss stays still! You wanna complain about low DPS? How about not letting the boss run out of all the ground-based AOE?
The boss doesn't go after other players! The DPS can damage without the boss chasing them when they didn't build for that. The healer can heal without the boss trying to smash them.

If your DPS is that amazing, just slot a taunt, and you'll get the best effectiveness out of your group. Or don't, and you'll never know how fast you could have gone. Holding the boss still and holding aggro makes even Normal dungeons go faster and easier!

Seriously, I'm at the point of slotting a taunt on my pure DPS and calling her a tank. I still think its poor form but at least I'll taunt.

Or you can save the slot and just stand still, but step out of red. Seriously, there’s no need for a taunt in a normal dungeon other than the debuff. With 4 DDs, in normal, adds and bosses melt in a seconds, so there really shouldn’t be time to worry about the boss moving around. If they are not dying in seconds then it because someone is trash at their role.

Dapper Dinosaur

Olgierd wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Random normal wihtout tank should be ok!

DPS are getting dungeon after an hour and these tanks are actually help getting dps a dungeon!

It shouldn't be ok. It's cheating in line to get faster group. If you want to play dps wiat in lne as a dps no matter what when i enter the dungeon with 4 random people i expect them to be loyal their roles. When i see fake tank/healer i immediately start a vote to kick that cheater.

You're just mad that you don't have the skill to slot a taunt, survive, and do the same thing. If people queue as tank and do the tank's role while being a DPS, what business is it of yours aside from being butthurt over arbitrary labels?

SoLooney

im sorry but non dlc normals are faceroll easy and if you cant heal the damage on normal, thats a lrn2play problem.

4 dps on normals goes by way faster than having a tank and a healer

BlanketFort

Ugh, I'm so sick of this. All these players justifying their fake roles in normal/vet dungeon because
"I can solo it anyway"
"You don't need heals/tank"
"I just want to get it over with"
"I didn't want to wait half an hour"
Jesus.
This event has made this whole thing even worse.

Wish ZOS would just buff or change up dungeons again, to a point that tank and heals are needed so that these DDs get put in their place. VR days difficulty?

MythicEmperor

If you're doing normals, then you can run 4 dps without a problem.

Dapper Dinosaur

BlanketFort wrote: »

Ugh, I'm so sick of this. All these players justifying their fake roles in normal/vet dungeon because
"I can solo it anyway"
"You don't need heals/tank"
"I just want to get it over with"
"I didn't want to wait half an hour"
Jesus.
This event has made this whole thing even worse.

Wish ZOS would just buff or change up dungeons again, to a point that tank and heals are needed so that these DDs get put in their place. VR days difficulty?

What are you so butthurt about? The dungeons get done and they get done quick. Are you actually mad that you're so bad at the game that you need tanks and heals in normal dungeons, perhaps?

Elsonso

Olgierd wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Random normal wihtout tank should be ok!

DPS are getting dungeon after an hour and these tanks are actually help getting dps a dungeon!

It shouldn't be ok. It's cheating in line to get faster group. If you want to play dps wiat in lne as a dps no matter what when i enter the dungeon with 4 random people i expect them to be loyal their roles. When i see fake tank/healer i immediately start a vote to kick that cheater.

I was just thinking today that ZOS should put a criteria into the group finder that slowly moves players down the list the more times they vote to kick someone in the first few minutes of dungeon.

BlanketFort

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

BlanketFort wrote: »

Ugh, I'm so sick of this. All these players justifying their fake roles in normal/vet dungeon because
"I can solo it anyway"
"You don't need heals/tank"
"I just want to get it over with"
"I didn't want to wait half an hour"
Jesus.
This event has made this whole thing even worse.

Wish ZOS would just buff or change up dungeons again, to a point that tank and heals are needed so that these DDs get put in their place. VR days difficulty?

What are you so butthurt about? The dungeons get done and they get done quick. Are you actually mad that you're so bad at the game that you need tanks and heals in normal dungeons, perhaps?

Ich much more butthurt about fake roles in vet because it's the healer that usually has to put in max effort if they get a fake tank and low group damage, but I do also get miffed seeing these in normals because of my imaginary principles and I will be a complete troll about it. Happy?

itsfatbass

I hope you're only referring to vet cause if you're referring to normals, then Get out! Normals can be soloed... And a good HALF of the vets you don't even need a tank. The whole "dps loss" is untrue, the only problem is the dps and or healer running around kiting like a scrub when 95% of the time they better to stand in place inside all the healing... So either way this is NOT A fake tank issue.

GabiAlex

I made many normals with groups of 4 DDs ranging from less than lvl 50 without any healing at all, or in some circumstances Vigor or the first skill on resto was more than enough. And because we are at elitist stuff, I finished trials with more than half of the group being less than level 50 and not yet at CP level on any character that went quite well without wipes and few deaths that were quickly resurrected.

But hey, tell me more about how fake tanks are a problem and not the player themselves and the lack of comunication and coordination. Have fun!

Loc2262

@VaranisArano : If you can taunt and survive oneshots, you're a better tank than many I've seen recently.

@Jade1986 : 50k health might seem excessive, and many builds don't have that much, but you can make high-health based builds too. Things like the Dragonknight shield scales off health, i.e. you'll give your whole group strong shields.

Maura_Neysa

xSkullfox wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Fake Tanks were always an issue, but since the #10MillionStories dungeon event they are getting out of control and appear everywhere. With all my toons, since yesterday I did not meet a single tank in random dungeons who could taunt, only people who select two or even three roles to find a dungeon faster.

The problem: Without a real, taunting tank, the group suffers much more damage. Then the healer alone has to carry the group. Result: my 690CP healers are often placed in games where former healer with less CPs could not handle the load.

It is not acceptable that healers have to leave because they do not have 690CP to heal against fake tanks who burden their load to the healers. ZOS, after months of complaints, please DO something about it.

SIMPLE basic solution: Do only allow people selecting a tank role who have a taunting skill equipped. This simple solution should already elimante 99% of fake tanks who do not even care learning a taunting skill.

Then do not allow Sorcs and Wardens to select as Healer....

@xSkullfox LMAO, I got Maz, Cradle and Faulk skins all with a Sorc Healer, she’s one bad ... healer. I kept forgetting and wondering who’s Twilight Matriarch that was. I run a DK healer and have been the group healer in vHRC HM and vAA HM. If someone is a bad healer, it’s all operator error.

Maura_Neysa

Edit: Not sure what I was actually trying to say here

CombatPrayer

This is what happens when ZOS does an event around something that was only barely functional to begin with. I like to soothe myself by saying that they're just trying to fix the system by overloading it and seeing what crops up, that it's been on their to do list for over a year and they really want to resolve all those nagging issues. But that's really just me trying to look on the bright side. I suspect they are hoping people will fall in love with doing dungeons and want to actually do them more. If so, this will turn most of them off dungeons completely.

Yesterday, I legit tanked a dungeon with no healer because the healer was a stamina toon that couldn't even bother to slot vigor. You think no tank is rough? I've done that blindfolded. Try no heals! Frankly, I have healer toons and it's pretty rare to really need to give more than one or two heals in these dungeons except DLC ones. I can dps through an entire dungeon without dropping more than a few heals with exception for vets and DLC where I actually need to heal.

Strider__Roshin

I'd rather fake tank, and carry three terrible DPS through a dungeon than come in on a legitimate tank and suffer playing with two trashy DPS and a healer.

Qbiken

eso_nya wrote: »

Meh, leave current gf as is and put in a checker "1337 only" which is locked for tanks below 50k health, dds below 50k dps and heals below 50k hps (or whatever numbers r cool nowadays).
If u activate it, u will be in seperate q with ppl who can activate it aswell.....

As for current event: If u cant solo normal dungeons, u shouldnt q for random normal and hope u find a carry.

@eso_nya omg, elitist 1k cp intensifies xD

Nogawd

Ok, maybe I won't go as far as to say a player is "bad" per say, maybe inexperienced? Maybe they really think they can play the game how they want? Fine. It does seem at the least that many players here want and need carried. From not being geared, not knowing a rotation, no food buffs, or of course even standing in the red stuff. They need their tank and healer to protect them. Cute.

In normals...

My main toon is a healer. I do NOT want a tank. Give me the extra dps or "fake tank" any day of the week.

My tank toon can keep 3 even bad dps alive if they all stay stacked on me.

My dps toon has a lot of sustain and damage that let me solo any normal dungeon so I don't care who I run with. They can hang out at the front of the dungeon for all I care.

In normals, stop the whining.

SugaComa

BalticBlues wrote: »

SIMPLE basic solution: Do only allow people selecting a tank role who have a taunting skill equipped. This simple solution should already elimante 99% of fake tanks who do not even care learning a taunting skill.

I agree, but by that shouldn't you also set DPS and healing the same way

N00BxV1

Surgee wrote: »

My only character is a full tank and my wife's a healer. Trust me it's not any better on our end. While we get grouped always instantly with 2 dps, most of them are complete idiots rushing everywhere, not waiting for my tank to get inside first and control the battlefield. It's so annoying and often leads to complete wipe on harder dungeons. Did I mention most of the random dps we encounter don't possess the skill of communication? We quit once for a year because we couldn't find a single dps (from matchmaking) for a fixed group that would actually try to cooperate and let the tank and healer do their job properly.

I agree, know your role and stop trying to commando. There's always that ~200-ish cp dps or healer who thinks they can do it all alone. But what they really do is rush in, kick the bee's nest and watch all enemies scatter while running in circles. If you have the deeps to burn it down quickly then be my guest. But if you have a tank with taunt, buffs/debuffs, CC, and some side deeps to boot then let them initiate the fights. It's annoying wasting resources because someone else has stirred the *** and then you have to clean it up.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

BalticBlues wrote: »

Fake Tanks were always an issue, but since the #10MillionStories dungeon event they are getting out of control and appear everywhere. With all my toons, since yesterday I did not meet a single tank in random dungeons who could taunt, only people who select two or even three roles to find a dungeon faster.

The problem: Without a real, taunting tank, the group suffers much more damage. Then the healer alone has to carry the group. Result: my 690CP healers are often placed in games where former healer with less CPs could not handle the load.

It is not acceptable that healers have to leave because they do not have 690CP to heal against fake tanks who burden their load to the healers. ZOS, after months of complaints, please DO something about it.

SIMPLE basic solution: Do only allow people selecting a tank role who have a taunting skill equipped. This simple solution should already elimante 99% of fake tanks who do not even care learning a taunting skill.

You realize that wouldn’t do anything right? I’m a DPS at max level with enough skill points to practically have all the skills I want so I could just slot a random taunt, get in dungeon and not tank.

I think if your max level and do a normal dungeon there is no need to care about role. I and most others can easily solo a normal dungeon, we just won’t get the box at the end therefore we must group for this mysterious box. I personally don’t like waiting 20 god damn minutes to get into a dungeon when I can que as every roll and literally get a group in under 20 seconds. Everyone benefits as the dungeon goes by fast and we all get the stupid boxes.

I can understand this if it only related to veteran dungeons. Vet dungeons are harder and most of the time (though not all) a real tank is needed. I honestly don’t even know why a person would que as every role for a vet dungeon when one could easily just que as every role for a normal dungeon and it’s win win for everyone.

Sarjako

Vote kick. If everyone in your party wants to kick them, they'll get kicked. SIMPLE. You should know when everyone loads in if it's a dungeon you'll need to votekick the Stamblade healer/tank.

UnversedNumber3

BalticBlues wrote: »

Fake Tanks were always an issue, but since the #10MillionStories dungeon event they are getting out of control and appear everywhere. With all my toons, since yesterday I did not meet a single tank in random dungeons who could taunt, only people who select two or even three roles to find a dungeon faster.

The problem: Without a real, taunting tank, the group suffers much more damage. Then the healer alone has to carry the group. Result: my 690CP healers are often placed in games where former healer with less CPs could not handle the load.

It is not acceptable that healers have to leave because they do not have 690CP to heal against fake tanks who burden their load to the healers. ZOS, after months of complaints, please DO something about it.

SIMPLE basic solution: Do only allow people selecting a tank role who have a taunting skill equipped. This simple solution should already elimante 99% of fake tanks who do not even care learning a taunting skill.

I think you are on the right track but here are some amendments that need to be made.

When doing speed runs people usually run 4 DPS. Since they are all DPS The may not be using a taunt or a group heal. These requirements should only be needed if you are using the group finder so it does not effect 4 man premades.

jaws343

I have to agree that queuing as a tank is ok for this event, if you can survive and do enough dps to make up for it. I was with a group last night that crushed ICP without a tank.

My only dps that I queue as tank and dps is my pvp mag warden. Slotted inner fire with 20k health and damage shields. Easy tanking and lots of dps.

DarcyMardin

Not everybody can solo normal dungeons. I got put into the final boss fight on a normal today on a high CP healer. Apparently the former healer had left. It was quick work to kill the boss and heal the group, but when I asked what had gone wrong, I was told that the tank had no taunt and one DPS apparently had no idea what they were doing. Thus they were stuck on an easy normal dungeon.

A lot of people who don’t usually run dungeons are trying them during this event. I think patience and tolerance are needed all around. But yeah...signing up for a role you can’t fulfill is not helping matters.

Elsonso

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Not everybody can solo normal dungeons. I got put into the final boss fight on a normal today on a high CP healer. Apparently the former healer had left. It was quick work to kill the boss and heal the group, but when I asked what had gone wrong, I was told that the tank had no taunt and one DPS apparently had no idea what they were doing. Thus they were stuck on an easy normal dungeon.

A lot of people who don’t usually run dungeons are trying them during this event. I think patience and tolerance are needed all around. But yeah...signing up for a role you can’t fulfill is not helping matters.

Not only are there people who are not usually running dungeons, on PC and PS4, we have new players that are just reaching Level 10 that have never even been in these dungeons. They are basically just following and shooting at anything that moves.

This is on top of the other players who never do dungeons and may not have been in a dungeon, or may not remember it.

This will probably persist for a few days after the event ends, until enough of the experienced players start booting them and they stop doing dungeons.

Bisbatron

I think the problem here isn't that it's harder doing normals without a tank/healer, because it isn't, 4 dd's is perfectly viable. The issue is when using the group finder, these people are essentially jumping the queue, by selecting all roles.

I'm not bothered by it, in a normal dungeon I don't care if there are 3 other people who know what they are doing or not, it's only normal, but for those who are new to the game and learning, normal dungeons is how they progress and learn how to do their roles. None of us started being able to solo all the normal and a lot of the vet dungeons, and while a lot of people will say, "you don't need a tank for most content." True, but for a lot of players, you do. There are more players in this game who need a tank and healer for vet content than players who don't.

montjie

I dont really think it should pose a real problem in normal dungs. But then again ive been max cp for awhile now so dont really recall how it is to not only have a low lvl toon but also lacking cp passives.

About the more stress on healer part. If every1 just slots a selfheal or a shield that should take away ALOT of the stress on the healer right because lets be honest, its not like those low level chars are pushing massive deeps in order to not reserve 1 barslot for a shield or heal.

Imza

@BalticBlues

Go to your guild and friends list and run with pre-made groups to solve your problem during the event.

During this event I tried group finder as a DPS and waited a whole hour - no group.

Then I went to my guild and got a pre-made group together and went to group finder - straight into the dungeons... so for the period of this event - that's what my guild is doing - we even run extra dungeons per character so everyone can get thier characters through and get as many mystery boxes as possible.

I am so lucky to have a very helpful guild!

We run fake tanks, healers and dps..... and it works for us cos we know what we are doing.

Edit: Spelling

Urza1234

VaranisArano wrote: »

Look, we all know normal dungeons can be run with 4 DDs. I've done it. We all know normal dungoens can be soloed. I've done that too.

Its still EASIER and FASTER if someone slots a TAUNT!

The boss stays still! You wanna complain about low DPS? How about not letting the boss run out of all the ground-based AOE?
The boss doesn't go after other players! The DPS can damage without the boss chasing them when they didn't build for that. The healer can heal without the boss trying to smash them.

If your DPS is that amazing, just slot a taunt, and you'll get the best effectiveness out of your group. Or don't, and you'll never know how fast you could have gone. Holding the boss still and holding aggro makes even Normal dungeons go faster and easier!

Seriously, I'm at the point of slotting a taunt on my pure DPS and calling her a tank. I still think its poor form but at least I'll taunt.

This.

99% of DPS monkeys never understand this, which is why they think fake tank is ok.

Yes the guy who has agro can just stand still, but unless all 4 players are standing on top of eachother when the boss swaps agro, which it does, it still moves. Then there is also the fact that Pierce Armor is a 10% bonus to the entire groups damage from M Frat/Breach, making it possibly the most valuable skill in the game, why would 1 person -not- slot it?

Also, the people who are queueing as fake tank arent pulling 40k dps, they're pulling 5k at best, same as the other lame dps. In reality most groups arent running around 1-shotting normal bosses.

If you want to run 4 DDs with your guild group then be my guest, I'm glad it works for you. However the issue is solo+ queue in the group finder. If you always run with a guild group and so your solution is basically to not actually use groupfinder then this topic has literally 0% to do with you So Please Shut Up Because Your Input Is Not A Valid Or Relevant Contribution.

Yes carrying a group through a normal dungeon with a fake tank is doable. No it is not fun, no it is not faster. Yes it is a problem.

Urza1234

To sum up the whole multi-month discussion so far.

Group A: "Fake tanking isnt a problem because I personally dont have to deal with it."
(ie the "let them eat cake" crowd)

Group B: "Fake tanking is great. I cAn SoLo EvErY dUnGeOn with 800k DPS."
(ie probably the problem people)

Group C: "I can heal through fake tanks, and I'd rather have fake tank than fake DPS"
(ie deflect using a false choice. Fake tanks and bad dps are not the same thing, and we dont have to compare them)

Group D : "I fake tank all the time with sword/shield and a taunt but with only 18k HP."
(ie people who are not the problem, clearly have no clue what most who have a problem mean by "fake tank", but decided to come here and tell us that they themselves personally are not the problem.)

Group E: The people who are using the groupfinder as intended, not as a full group, and not as a false role.
(ie the people who actually have a problem)