Healing training dummy?

coop500

So I had a idea as I do laundry at a random place, would a training dummy for healers help? Something we can buff and heal and see what our healing numbers are at? We have one for DPS but we can't heal it far as I know so....

Psyonico

No

If you can keep people alive, your healing is fine

KittehWinks

I help my friends practice by going out and acting like a dummy and stand in red. They also get to practice yelling at me. It's a win-win!

Destruent

No

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

Runefang

No

I heal dummies all the time.

SirAndy

Runefang wrote: »

I heal dummies all the time.

Thank you for your service!

LadyNalcarya

No

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

ZioGio

Yes

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

Destruent

No

ZioGio wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

As a DPS you need a fixed rotation to get good damage, as healer you can't have that.
Noone needs a healer who spams healing springs bc its in his rotation, but noone gets damage at this time...

in other words: you can't simulate the flexibility you need to perform well as heal. Every group and every fight is different.

edit: as a healer you don't need the bigges heals possible or fancy armor with statboost...you need group support, just enough healing to pretend anyone from getting killed and put the rest into damage.

Rickter

Yes

This is actually a pretty unique and great idea!!

Have the dummy lose health at a Trials dmg modifier and force the player to heal through it.

account for critical hits as well!

Destruent

No

Rickter wrote: »

This is actually a pretty unique and great idea!!

Have the dummy lose health at a Trials dmg modifier and force the player to heal through it.

account for critical hits as well!

this would only create healbots...not real healers...

i repeat another time: big healing-done numbers are useless.

FloppyTouch

No

I rather you focus on dps try a rotation with damage and sustain with adding healing spell if you want to be a better healer. I can’t stand healers that don’t dps

Runefang

No

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I rather you focus on dps try a rotation with damage and sustain with adding healing spell if you want to be a better healer. I can’t stand healers that don’t dps

What if it was next to the normal training dummy? So you could practice doing DPS while keeping the healing dummy alive?

Now that would be a good idea in my opinion.

VaranisArano

No

Good healing is determined by the content. In some content, good healing might be keeping your group topped off so you can buff them and do damage. In some content, you might need a mix of constant heals + big bursts.

Unlike DPS, which is initiated by the player in both PVE and PVP, healing is reactive. Healing mostly happens after the damage has occurred in proportion to the damage received. So a healing training dummy would have to mimic all sorts of damage spikes and the healer react to that, except that would be really hard without any visual indicators of damage, so why not just go practice healing a dungeon group and watch your heals per second?

Alchemical

Yes

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

VaranisArano

No

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

Can I get a tanking dummy that yells insults at my character if I don't keep it taunted every 15 seconds?

Runefang

No

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

And a tanking dummy? It can throw a few heavy attacks, random one-shots that need to be avoided and so forth.

Alchemical

Yes

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

Can I get a tanking dummy that yells insults at my character if I don't keep it taunted every 15 seconds?

Runefang wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

And a tanking dummy? It can throw a few heavy attacks, random one-shots that need to be avoided and so forth.

Do the dummies not already hit back? I thought they did. I do not DPS to any serious degree, so I do not have one, but for some reason I thought they did. I know I used tanking dummies in other MMOs, seems strange they're not in ESO. Accurately gauging your mitigation/self-heals is an important part of tanking.

zaria

You can train on yourself in seeing healing effects,

Destruent wrote: »

ZioGio wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

As a DPS you need a fixed rotation to get good damage, as healer you can't have that.
Noone needs a healer who spams healing springs bc its in his rotation, but noone gets damage at this time...

in other words: you can't simulate the flexibility you need to perform well as heal. Every group and every fight is different.

edit: as a healer you don't need the bigges heals possible or fancy armor with statboost...you need group support, just enough healing to pretend anyone from getting killed and put the rest into damage.

This, in some settings you have to heal for your life (not an just an saying), other times you just buff and DD.
An healer has an priority tree 1) keep all alive 2) buff: ele drain, combat prayer in dungeons.
3) DD but don't run low on magic, suddenly you need to heal and the rest of the group will run on to next fight once last enemy is down

That you should do is knowing who skills are there as muscle memory, this get seriously confusing then running multiple alts of different classes. Trials require another setup to increase confusion.

phileunderx2

Yes

I have found a good place to practice healing is the arena world boss in the Gold coast. There are almost always people doing it and most of the time they have no idea what to do and need all the healing they can get.

Danksta

No

We have the 52M dummy to test group DPS which won't have great results without the support roles doing their part.

DMuehlhausen

Yes

Psyonico wrote: »

If you can keep people alive, your healing is fine

So do you believe as long as stuff is dying people are DDing fine?

DMuehlhausen

Yes

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

#HLM

Alchemical

Yes

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Psyonico wrote: »

If you can keep people alive, your healing is fine

So do you believe as long as stuff is dying people are DDing fine?

But it's generally understood that a DPS also has to perform mechanics, because the healer's role is impeded by having to to perform high mobility mechanics. A good healer is healing/supporting and has to position themselves in a way that most compliments that role (not that you should chase stupid people though). There's some flexibility, but usually it's agreed that a DPS handles secondary/non-tank mechanics (with some exceptions, like the final boss in RoM).

Generally as long as no one is dying, a healer is fine. Numbers really do not matter as much as instinct. If no one is dying you are healing adequately. And even if they are, you're probably still fine if they're the breed of idiot that runs OUT of giant healing light circles on the ground. If you out of range heals, that's on you, I'm not putting the rest of the group in peril to chase your suicidal hide.

VaranisArano

No

Alchemical wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

Can I get a tanking dummy that yells insults at my character if I don't keep it taunted every 15 seconds?

Runefang wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

And a tanking dummy? It can throw a few heavy attacks, random one-shots that need to be avoided and so forth.

Do the dummies not already hit back? I thought they did. I do not DPS to any serious degree, so I do not have one, but for some reason I thought they did. I know I used tanking dummies in other MMOs, seems strange they're not in ESO. Accurately gauging your mitigation/self-heals is an important part of tanking.

No, the dummies in ESO are pure damage sponges. The different types mimic the health and resistances of different bosses, all the way from a public dungeon boss, normal group dungeon bosses to vet hardmode trials bosses. But if you want to accurately figure out how much you hit, heal, or tank in combat there's no substitute for fighting an actual boss.

Alchemical

Yes

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

Can I get a tanking dummy that yells insults at my character if I don't keep it taunted every 15 seconds?

Runefang wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

I agree with all the points the 'no' crowd have made, but on the other hand I just want one, even if it is pointless, because I demand equal role representation among dummies.

And a tanking dummy? It can throw a few heavy attacks, random one-shots that need to be avoided and so forth.

Do the dummies not already hit back? I thought they did. I do not DPS to any serious degree, so I do not have one, but for some reason I thought they did. I know I used tanking dummies in other MMOs, seems strange they're not in ESO. Accurately gauging your mitigation/self-heals is an important part of tanking.

No, the dummies in ESO are pure damage sponges. The different types mimic the health and resistances of different bosses, all the way from a public dungeon boss, normal group dungeon bosses to vet hardmode trials bosses. But if you want to accurately figure out how much you hit, heal, or tank in combat there's no substitute for fighting an actual boss.

No, there's not, but it's still good to 'get a feel' for it. If you can't take two heavy attacks from a tanking trial dummy you know you're not ready to tank a trial and need to seriously reevaluate your gear/rotation/etc before you subject 11 other people to playing with you.

Caligamy_ESO

There are tons of these out there already, standing around in banks across Tamriel.

j/k.. don't do that its highly obnoxious

LadyNalcarya

No

ZioGio wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

This is different, though.
The rotation you would use to kill a dummy is pretty much the same as you would use in actual combat.
If the dummy would just generate incoming damage... I would be able to beat any "test" just by spamming healing springs and maybe even templar or warden ultie lol. But in real combat its more about buff uptimes than spamming heals. Even more so, theres no need to spam them so hps is not that important (all encounters where you have heavy damage phases can be outhealed just by stacking healing springs).
In this game, its extremely easy to "just heal". Anyone can do that with 1-2 buttons. Buff/debuff uptimes, though, is a completely different beast.

xSkullfox

Runefang wrote: »

I heal dummies all the time.

kargen27

Destruent wrote: »

ZioGio wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

As a DPS you need a fixed rotation to get good damage, as healer you can't have that.
Noone needs a healer who spams healing springs bc its in his rotation, but noone gets damage at this time...

in other words: you can't simulate the flexibility you need to perform well as heal. Every group and every fight is different.

edit: as a healer you don't need the bigges heals possible or fancy armor with statboost...you need group support, just enough healing to pretend anyone from getting killed and put the rest into damage.

My healer has a rotation. Shard in front of tank to start because it does some damage and is good extra AoE. Then I go Combat Prayer, Healing Springs, bar swap, Elemental drain, little floaty balls (usually 2 of em), Purifying Light on boss and bar swap. If the groups health is still good I start with the shard again. In trials if I am healing group and not the tank I drop the shards so they hit as many evil doers as possible.

If someones health drops I get out of my rotation and heal exclusively until they are good to go again. Also some fights there is a moment where the mechanics calls for some big healing. I try to be aware of those and be sure I will have the magicka to get the group through it. If everybody is good I will sneak in a heavy attack before I swap back to the restoration staff. Should someone take a hard hit in the middle of my heavy attack bar swap interupts it and healing springs is ready to go.
Depending on the situation I can work in War Horn, a nova or the destro ult.

I try to place myself so that the DPS is between me and the tank and get close enough one healing springs will hit all of us when doing dungeons. In trials that is a bit harder to do so I just position to reach as many as possible without having to run all over the place.

kargen27

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ZioGio wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Healing is not about your own big numbers, it's about good group performance. If you help your group performing better (i.e more dps, don't need selfheals and so on) you are good. How can a dummy simulate that?

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

It would be pointless.
Being a good healer is more than just outhealing damage.

Being good at DPS is also about group performance, but we don't question their need or wants to swap armor and points to test which combination gives them the biggest bang for their buck or to test if expected damage matches the actual output.

Why should it be any different with healers wanting to test and amplify their skills' output?

This is different, though.
The rotation you would use to kill a dummy is pretty much the same as you would use in actual combat.
If the dummy would just generate incoming damage... I would be able to beat any "test" just by spamming healing springs and maybe even templar or warden ultie lol. But in real combat its more about buff uptimes than spamming heals. Even more so, theres no need to spam them so hps is not that important (all encounters where you have heavy damage phases can be outhealed just by stacking healing springs).
In this game, its extremely easy to "just heal". Anyone can do that with 1-2 buttons. Buff/debuff uptimes, though, is a completely different beast.

In this game it is also easy to "just DPS". A few fights have a DPS check other than those a Templar just jabbing will eventually get the job done.