So NO OPTION to buy the Mages Guild Sentry Cat. It's Crown CRATES ONLY this game.

RANKK7

I'm very much disappointed about the Mages Guild Sentry Cat, not even for sale for 3 days or one! Directly in the Crown Crates.

Now this is my feedback: you can keep your crate and shove it. That was an item that really interested me but there is no way I'm going to feed this low practice, paying to have a chance to get the item I like, no way.

I would have gladly bought the Cat in the Store, I pay for what I like, not random items!

And the gems are not an option, the return from basic items is just ridiculous and a pet would likely end up costing like a manor! That's the plan after all, isn't it?


I will check the Store if you still will bother to put in there something for the customers that don't like to throw earned money to the wind and that's it.

Suit yourself with your awful business model, I hope it will bite you in the arse soon or later.

That's all, MY FEEDBACK.



On a side note:
opened the free crates and found a mount worth 100 gems I totally DISLIKE and I won't use EVER. Obviously there is no way I can recover some gems or even gift that mount to another player, someone who like that and would have enjoyed it, because greed.
At least people could be allowed to gift crates items to others, that's just a wasted mount sitting in there, another player could have been happy to have it.
But why I'm even writing this? It's completely useless, go ahead with the greed.

Hanokihs

For the record, the only reason your post would be useless is because they clearly advertised that cat as part of the crate system. Not sure why you'd wait until now to be confused/outraged about it...

Cpt_Teemo

You can get it with gems

Alchemical

Write your lawmakers about how loot crates are gambling and you want them banned.

Not even being sarcastic. If you hate it, financially punish the people perpetuating it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

+1 what Alchemical said. Last I checked Belgium, Australia, and a couple representatives from Hawaii were starting the push against the practice; now is the time to speak up about it.

billp_ESO

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

CyborgPlatypus

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

It's really not. Having a non-combat pet won't make you a better player.

scipionumatia

To confirm, you CAN purchase the flame atro mounts with gems right? They should be 400 correct?
cant log in right now, wanna make sure

Alchemical

scipionumatia wrote: »

To confirm, you CAN purchase the flame atro mounts with gems right? They should be 400 correct?
cant log in right now, wanna make sure

Yep, it's just the Shadow Senche, Frostfire Horse, and Stonefire Wolf mounts you can't buy with gems.

Wreuntzylla

What the heck are you talking about???

Oh, maybe you mean this.

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2017/nov/24/gambling-regulators-to-investigate-loot-boxes-in-video-games

resdayn00

Can't all Crown Crate haters just shut up and not open/buy any crates? Countless threads have been made about how people hate Crown Crates yet here we go, another one. It's boring, everyone hates it by now. Alchemical said it well, if you have a problem with it, make moves in the appropriate way. The forum is not the place where you can do something about it.

scipionumatia

@Alchemical thank you been really looking forward to the flame atro bear

RANKK7

resdayn00 wrote: »

Can't all Crown Crate haters just shut up and not open/buy any crates? Countless threads have been made about how people hate Crown Crates yet here we go, another one. It's boring, everyone hates it by now. Alchemical said it well, if you have a problem with it, make moves in the appropriate way. The forum is not the place where you can do something about it.

Don't worry, we are getting a special treatment having our threads moved very fast to the appropriate section while the "show your beautiful crates rewards" are there in the General one to get all the possible views.

Speaking of which, why are you even here? Hurry up and go post there, no need to read these kind of threads, nor participate. And the forum IS a place we can speak about what we like or dislike about the game management, if you think it shouldn't be allowed to give feedback, this thread is not the place where you can do something about it.

monktoasty

It does suck yes..obviously the practice needs t9 be looked at especially now while it's under fire

O_LYKOS

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

Gamble to win? What in these crates enables someone to "win"?

Raideen

O_LYKOS wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

Gamble to win? What in these crates enables someone to "win"?

This has been said probably over 100 times on these forums but part of the appeal of an RPG (ROLE playing game) is collecting armor, outfits, weapons, mounts etc. This goes as far back as Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) and has been commonplace in every single MMORPG made to date.

Gating mounts, outfits, and other special collectable items behind a cash shop is bad, but its worse when this is practices for people who pay a monthly sub to the game. It reeks of greed, which is why people are upset.

When customers start feeling like they are being taken advantage of (regardless of what you think that entails), they will move on and take their wallet with them.

ZOS knows this and yet they still press forward with the cash shop and loot crates. Almost feels like they are going for a cash grab.

monktoasty

I have no loyalty here because I'm just a dollar sign not a player..pretty sure that's how a lot of people feel and the next best thing to come along...

Eso has little competition at the moment due to its uniqueness but that won't last much longer

SecretAtoz

resdayn00 wrote: »

Can't all Crown Crate haters just shut up and not open/buy any crates? Countless threads have been made about how people hate Crown Crates yet here we go, another one. It's boring, everyone hates it by now. Alchemical said it well, if you have a problem with it, make moves in the appropriate way. The forum is not the place where you can do something about it.

You can't tell me what to do. If I want to open my free crates, I will open them.

TelvanniWizard

RANKK7 wrote: »

I'm very much disappointed about the Mages Guild Sentry Cat, not even for sale for 3 days or one! Directly in the Crown Crates.

Now this is my feedback: you can keep your crate and shove it. That was an item that really interested me but there is no way I'm going to feed this low practice, paying to have a chance to get the item I like, no way.

I would have gladly bought the Cat in the Store, I pay for what I like, not random items!

And the gems are not an option, the return from basic items is just ridiculous and a pet would likely end up costing like a manor! That's the plan after all, isn't it?


I will check the Store if you still will bother to put in there something for the customers that don't like to throw earned money to the wind and that's it.

Suit yourself with your awful business model, I hope it will bite you in the arse soon or later.

That's all, MY FEEDBACK.



On a side note:
opened the free crates and found a mount worth 100 gems I totally DISLIKE and I won't use EVER. Obviously there is no way I can recover some gems or even gift that mount to another player, someone who like that and would have enjoyed it, because greed.
At least people could be allowed to gift crates items to others, that's just a wasted mount sitting in there, another player could have been happy to have it.
But why I'm even writing this? It's completely useless, go ahead with the greed.

I totally agree with you.

Hokiewa

Raideen wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

ZOS knows this and yet they still press forward with the cash shop and loot crates. Almost feels like they are going for a cash grab.

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

Elsonso

resdayn00 wrote: »

Can't all Crown Crate haters just shut up and not open/buy any crates? Countless threads have been made about how people hate Crown Crates yet here we go, another one. It's boring, everyone hates it by now. Alchemical said it well, if you have a problem with it, make moves in the appropriate way. The forum is not the place where you can do something about it.

I am actually rather sad for the people who are just joining the game.

All this Crown Crate exclusive stuff saves me money. No Mage Guild cat in the store, as the OP has mentioned, no reason to buy said cat, no reason to spend the requisite Crowns, and less pressure to buy Crowns. I have spent less money on Crowns this year than last year. A lot less, all because of Crown Crate exclusive items. When I take your advice, I simply don't need them as much.

The new players, though, they have nothing. I already have a cat, but in 12 days the only cat in the Crown Store will be the ones in Crown Crates. That is, unless December adds a new cat. I have Senche mounts, but they are only available in Crown Crates, now. The Pocket Mammoth was already in the Store, for us older players, but for newer players, the only way to get one is to buy Crown Crates. They have to go to the Crown Crates to get a lot of the stuff they see in the game.

That is the intention of the Crown Crates, I figure. They want the new players to be greeted by Pacrooti as soon as they arrive. To get much of the stuff that they see everyone else in the game has, they have to sit down before the Khajiit and gamble away their Crowns. For an RPG game, that is actually pretty despicable.

I feel sad for the new players.

Raideen

Hokiewa wrote: »

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

I never said I was against companies making money, in fact I said I want them to make money as I am happy that they employ a good team of artists, I also said I am happy, and PREFER to pay a monthly subscription to a game (so devs have a constant stream of reliable income). But something you failed to mention is the product or service they are selling. Customers have a RIGHT to complain and its in the companies best interest to listen to the customers. Ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right". You know where that comes from? Its the basic premise that a companies income comes from customers. No customers = no money. Very simple concept.

There are ethical ways of doing business, and unethical. Loot crates play on the gambling addiction that many people have which is also very similar to the collectors mindset/hoarders. Many CUSTOMERS feel this is an unethical practice.

I own my own business. I would not employ shady tactics in the first place, its a sure fire way to *** off your customer base and lose your clientele, which is exactly what is happening with this game at the moment and why people are voicing their opinion and why people have left the game.

Hokiewa

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

I never said I was against companies making money, in fact I said I want them to make money as I am happy that they employ a good team of artists, I also said I am happy, and PREFER to pay a monthly subscription to a game (so devs have a constant stream of reliable income). But something you failed to mention is the product or service they are selling. Customers have a RIGHT to complain and its in the companies best interest to listen to the customers. Ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right". You know where that comes from? Its the basic premise that a companies income comes from customers. No customers = no money. Very simple concept.

There are ethical ways of doing business, and unethical. Loot crates play on the gambling addiction that many people have which is also very similar to the collectors mindset/hoarders. Many CUSTOMERS feel this is an unethical practice.

I own my own business. I would not employ shady tactics in the first place, its a sure fire way to *** off your customer base and lose your clientele, which is exactly what is happening with this game at the moment and why people are voicing their opinion and why people have left the game.

I never stated customers don't have a right to complain, in fact I've never stated an opinion one way or the other on how I feel about crates. Ethical is subjective as well. Loot crates may pray on some with addiction issues but unless you are suggesting that the vast majority of people buying crates are addicts (which is amusingly ridiculous), that statement is meaningless. The adage that the customer is always right is one of the most fallacious statements that people utter. Not all customers are right and as a business owner, you should know this.

Raideen

Hokiewa wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

I never said I was against companies making money, in fact I said I want them to make money as I am happy that they employ a good team of artists, I also said I am happy, and PREFER to pay a monthly subscription to a game (so devs have a constant stream of reliable income). But something you failed to mention is the product or service they are selling. Customers have a RIGHT to complain and its in the companies best interest to listen to the customers. Ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right". You know where that comes from? Its the basic premise that a companies income comes from customers. No customers = no money. Very simple concept.

There are ethical ways of doing business, and unethical. Loot crates play on the gambling addiction that many people have which is also very similar to the collectors mindset/hoarders. Many CUSTOMERS feel this is an unethical practice.

I own my own business. I would not employ shady tactics in the first place, its a sure fire way to *** off your customer base and lose your clientele, which is exactly what is happening with this game at the moment and why people are voicing their opinion and why people have left the game.

I never stated customers don't have a right to complain, in fact I've never stated an opinion one way or the other on how I feel about crates.

And yet you are here arguing with customers voicing complaints.

Ethical is subjective as well.

In the grand scheme or understanding that we are a small part of the universe, absolutely. In regards to modern society subjective or not majority rules. Zenimax is losing customers, many euro players have moved to US servers because of the declining population. If this is in part due to cash grabbing (which loot crates are) Europeans would be hit harder by this than USA due to Europe having more poor families.

Loot crates may pray on some with addiction issues but unless you are suggesting that the vast majority of people buying crates are addicts (which is amusingly ridiculous), that statement is meaningless.

Loot crates are designed to exploit weaknesses in human psychology. That is a fact and why so many are against them.

The adage that the customer is always right is one of the most fallacious statements that people utter. Not all customers are right and as a business owner, you should know this.

I don't think you understand what that saying means. Obviously the customer is not always right, hell I would argue in many cases they are in the wrong. The POINT is are you willing to throw that in their face and lose the customer/money? Or are you willing to swallow your pride and retain the client which helps your livelihood. If you are going to make the smart decision most of the time to retain your customer, you treat them as if they have merit in their complaint. Ergo, they are right.

Hokiewa

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

I never said I was against companies making money, in fact I said I want them to make money as I am happy that they employ a good team of artists, I also said I am happy, and PREFER to pay a monthly subscription to a game (so devs have a constant stream of reliable income). But something you failed to mention is the product or service they are selling. Customers have a RIGHT to complain and its in the companies best interest to listen to the customers. Ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right". You know where that comes from? Its the basic premise that a companies income comes from customers. No customers = no money. Very simple concept.

There are ethical ways of doing business, and unethical. Loot crates play on the gambling addiction that many people have which is also very similar to the collectors mindset/hoarders. Many CUSTOMERS feel this is an unethical practice.

I own my own business. I would not employ shady tactics in the first place, its a sure fire way to *** off your customer base and lose your clientele, which is exactly what is happening with this game at the moment and why people are voicing their opinion and why people have left the game.

I never stated customers don't have a right to complain, in fact I've never stated an opinion one way or the other on how I feel about crates.

And yet you are here arguing with customers voicing complaints.

Ethical is subjective as well.

In the grand scheme or understanding that we are a small part of the universe, absolutely. In regards to modern society subjective or not majority rules. Zenimax is losing customers, many euro players have moved to US servers because of the declining population. If this is in part due to cash grabbing (which loot crates are) Europeans would be hit harder by this than USA due to Europe having more poor families.

Loot crates may pray on some with addiction issues but unless you are suggesting that the vast majority of people buying crates are addicts (which is amusingly ridiculous), that statement is meaningless.

Loot crates are designed to exploit weaknesses in human psychology. That is a fact and why so many are against them.

The adage that the customer is always right is one of the most fallacious statements that people utter. Not all customers are right and as a business owner, you should know this.

I don't think you understand what that saying means. Obviously the customer is not always right, hell I would argue in many cases they are in the wrong. The POINT is are you willing to throw that in their face and lose the customer/money? Or are you willing to swallow your pride and retain the client which helps your livelihood. If you are going to make the smart decision most of the time to retain your customer, you treat them as if they have merit in their complaint. Ergo, they are right.

I'm not arguing in the least bit. I'm countering incorrect assertions and faulty judgments. In fact, I've never stated my opinion on loot crates in general, one way or the other. Nobody is throwing anything in anybody's face and to suggest that is occuring is simply amusing. Not capitulating to a segment of a customer base is not refusing to listen, you understand that right?

esp1992

For Kyne’s sake,
Can’t we ALL Just Get Along?

I for one am indifferent with the Crates...
In fact, it depends on the season or theme that intrests me, even wish for Frost Attro Crates with Frost momentos for my Warden character.

For those of you against the crates, you have my upmost respect, and you have every right to state your opinion and also be unhappy. Kyne watch over you, and PAWS too.

I’m just tired of people fighting and going at each other’s throats like Wolves and Bears over wether to buy a silly box or not or who’s right or wrong! Shor’s Bones, it’s getting out of hand.

JiKama

I dislike the crates as well, because you could spend 1000$ and never get what you want. I wish we could just get the items within reasonable prices in the crown store. There's been a few times I've tossed a few bucks in hopes of getting something I wanted. Sadly I never do, but I would prefer to just straight up buy what I want. Not pray to RNGesus that maybe I'm a lucky boy today. Oh.. and before someone brings up "gems" you don't get much in return for swapping items for gems.

Raideen

Hokiewa wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Without a true opinion on "loot boxes", I find terms like "cash grab" and "greedy" amusing when discussing a business whose SOLE purpose is to generate profit. Businesses are CONSTANTLY in cash grab mode, it's the sole purpose of the company (despite what you think, it's not to make you happy). People cry corporations are evil but generally have no idea how profit benefits them (unless directly employed by that company). If Zenimax were a publicly traded company in your retirement portfolio it would be against your own self interest to argue against profit driven mechanics.

I never said I was against companies making money, in fact I said I want them to make money as I am happy that they employ a good team of artists, I also said I am happy, and PREFER to pay a monthly subscription to a game (so devs have a constant stream of reliable income). But something you failed to mention is the product or service they are selling. Customers have a RIGHT to complain and its in the companies best interest to listen to the customers. Ever hear the phrase "The customer is always right". You know where that comes from? Its the basic premise that a companies income comes from customers. No customers = no money. Very simple concept.

There are ethical ways of doing business, and unethical. Loot crates play on the gambling addiction that many people have which is also very similar to the collectors mindset/hoarders. Many CUSTOMERS feel this is an unethical practice.

I own my own business. I would not employ shady tactics in the first place, its a sure fire way to *** off your customer base and lose your clientele, which is exactly what is happening with this game at the moment and why people are voicing their opinion and why people have left the game.

I never stated customers don't have a right to complain, in fact I've never stated an opinion one way or the other on how I feel about crates.

And yet you are here arguing with customers voicing complaints.

Ethical is subjective as well.

In the grand scheme or understanding that we are a small part of the universe, absolutely. In regards to modern society subjective or not majority rules. Zenimax is losing customers, many euro players have moved to US servers because of the declining population. If this is in part due to cash grabbing (which loot crates are) Europeans would be hit harder by this than USA due to Europe having more poor families.

Loot crates may pray on some with addiction issues but unless you are suggesting that the vast majority of people buying crates are addicts (which is amusingly ridiculous), that statement is meaningless.

Loot crates are designed to exploit weaknesses in human psychology. That is a fact and why so many are against them.

The adage that the customer is always right is one of the most fallacious statements that people utter. Not all customers are right and as a business owner, you should know this.

I don't think you understand what that saying means. Obviously the customer is not always right, hell I would argue in many cases they are in the wrong. The POINT is are you willing to throw that in their face and lose the customer/money? Or are you willing to swallow your pride and retain the client which helps your livelihood. If you are going to make the smart decision most of the time to retain your customer, you treat them as if they have merit in their complaint. Ergo, they are right.

I'm not arguing in the least bit. I'm countering incorrect assertions and faulty judgments. In fact, I've never stated my opinion on loot crates in general, one way or the other. Nobody is throwing anything in anybody's face and to suggest that is occuring is simply amusing. Not capitulating to a segment of a customer base is not refusing to listen, you understand that right?

You are not countering incorrect assertions. Based on current industry standards, ESO is greedy with their offerings. Simply put they charge more for less than their competition, they also gate much of their desired content behind hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a single purchase, those are facts.

As far as countering "cash grab", I never said they WERE cash grabbing, I said and I quote "Almost feels like they are going for a cash grab". There is a difference between asserting that statement as fact, and as opinion. You can't counter "incorrect" opinions. So, again no you were not just "countering incorrect assertions and faulty arguments". In fact, your entire engagement into this thread reeks more as PR than it does a concerned gamer/customer.

You realize ESO's player base is dying in Europe. One would have to think if ESO was listening to customers, that they do more to retain their customers than raise prices. Raising prices is not how you win customers back, you understand that right?

LadyAstrum

lordrichter wrote: »

resdayn00 wrote: »

Can't all Crown Crate haters just shut up and not open/buy any crates? Countless threads have been made about how people hate Crown Crates yet here we go, another one. It's boring, everyone hates it by now. Alchemical said it well, if you have a problem with it, make moves in the appropriate way. The forum is not the place where you can do something about it.

I am actually rather sad for the people who are just joining the game.

All this Crown Crate exclusive stuff saves me money. No Mage Guild cat in the store, as the OP has mentioned, no reason to buy said cat, no reason to spend the requisite Crowns, and less pressure to buy Crowns. I have spent less money on Crowns this year than last year. A lot less, all because of Crown Crate exclusive items. When I take your advice, I simply don't need them as much.

The new players, though, they have nothing. I already have a cat, but in 12 days the only cat in the Crown Store will be the ones in Crown Crates. That is, unless December adds a new cat. I have Senche mounts, but they are only available in Crown Crates, now. The Pocket Mammoth was already in the Store, for us older players, but for newer players, the only way to get one is to buy Crown Crates. They have to go to the Crown Crates to get a lot of the stuff they see in the game.

That is the intention of the Crown Crates, I figure. They want the new players to be greeted by Pacrooti as soon as they arrive. To get much of the stuff that they see everyone else in the game has, they have to sit down before the Khajiit and gamble away their Crowns. For an RPG game, that is actually pretty despicable.

I feel sad for the new players.

As one of the new players, I agree. Despite my 2014 join date (I tried beta and disliked the game back then). Been playing two months and already see the financial hoops ZoS expects people to go through to obtain nice costumes, mounts and pets, since the in-game offerings are paltry. The shine has already diminished. A potentially good game (except for the half-done functions and bugs) smeared by blatant greed.

BloodWolfe

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

I don't agree with the loot crates and will never support them but how are mounts, pets and costumes (all cosmetic stuff and some crap potions) "gamble to win"? You aren't at any sort of advantage with them compared to not having them so it's nowhere close to being a "pay/gamble to win" system. Stop spewing that nonsense! Nothing in this game is P2W.

On this topic though, I would love to see these gamble loot boxes banned, these are the WORST things to happen to gaming and microtransactions (aside from P2W BS in other games of course). These are the main reason I have started to shift away from MMO's and generally a lot of multiplayer games lately and go back to strictly single player because I hate paying full price for a game then having to buy all this extra crap (some of which should have been included, looking back at multiplayer coop in RE5.. or was it RE6 that required a separate purchase) but it's getting ridiculous!

Anyway, bit off topic lol but I'm playing through Doom and Skyrim again (this time on my Switch) and loving it. No worry about microtransaction and gamble box BS is such a nice relief and change of pace. I don't mind expansion packs and stuff but some (like R.E. mentioned above as example) is very shady and I stopped buying Capcom games after that so Capcom and EA are on my forever "No buy" list which sucks too because I love the Bioware games but well... EA now so I don't buy. The recent issues with Battlefront 2 reminded me and made my glad I haven't supported anything EA in many years and will continue to avoid EA like the plague that it is.

Elsonso

BloodWolfe wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

So now it's "gamble to win".

Sigh.

I don't agree with the loot crates and will never support them but how are mounts, pets and costumes (all cosmetic stuff and some crap potions) "gamble to win"? You aren't at any sort of advantage with them compared to not having them so it's nowhere close to being a "pay/gamble to win" system. Stop spewing that nonsense! Nothing in this game is P2W.

A lot of people come from the competitive side of the MMO games where better armor and weapons make it easier to beat others. This is how they "win" the game, and this is the "standard" by which they judge Pay To Win.

While this definition holds true for shooters, it really gets diluted when you talk about RPG games. In an RPG game, it is not all about beating other players. Yes, you can do that, but it is not the only purpose for the game. People play for different reasons. Goals in the game become varied and diverse, and so does the concept of "winning".

Players of CSGO would probably find it insane for a player to be picking flowers during the game. There are players in ESO that regularly do exactly that, and there may be characters in the game that do nothing but that.

Players in many MMO shooter games buy skins to customize themselves. They know that buying a pink weapon isn't going to make them win the game. In this RPG game, we complain in all caps because some of our weapons are pink and we cannot recolor them.

As much as people might not want it to be, the standard MMO definition of "Pay To Win" is not a good fit for an RPG game. ZOS and Bethesda know this. I am sure they know that, for RPG games, cosmetics hold a much more profitable position because many of the players view having more of them as "winning". There are probably shooter studios out there that wish their players were more like RPG players.

So, yeah, in an RPG, certain cosmetics can be considered Pay To Win by players. Not in the traditional MMO sense that will trigger people who read that, of course. In the RPG sense where appearance is as important, or maybe even more important, than beating other players in combat.