Crown crates = stopped recommending ESO to friends

DieAlteHexe

starkerealm wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Slyjinxy wrote: »

The whining about crown crates has become totally ridiculous.

1) They don't give anyone a game play advantage

2) They are 100% optional

3) Why are people so concerned with how other people spend their money?

4) To discourage people from playing because of something so inconsequential and again OPTIONAL is childish

I have never spent a single dime on crates, they don't interest me. The only time I even think about them is when people start these stupid threads.

It is most certainly not something that detracts from the game in any way.

And yet, through all this apology, two countries are still looking at taking the legislative axe to them, following -outrage- over a issue persistant for years.

The gravy train is over, apologist.

Stretched that a bit. Some people in two countries have come out recently to make statements that they think this should be looked into. Neither country has actively started looking into it, so far as I can see. A politician in Belgium and one (or was it two) in Hawaii.

France and Australia have both started to investigate as well. Last time the UK's government got poked about it, they said it was currently legal, but that could change (though this was before BF2.)

Investigate, yes. That's a loooooooooong step from actually doing anything. This is a bandwagon (atm). I'll be more convinced if it actually goes beyond the "we're investigating" stage and into "we're actually going to DO something aside from lip-service" stage.

starkerealm

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Slyjinxy wrote: »

The whining about crown crates has become totally ridiculous.

1) They don't give anyone a game play advantage

2) They are 100% optional

3) Why are people so concerned with how other people spend their money?

4) To discourage people from playing because of something so inconsequential and again OPTIONAL is childish

I have never spent a single dime on crates, they don't interest me. The only time I even think about them is when people start these stupid threads.

It is most certainly not something that detracts from the game in any way.

And yet, through all this apology, two countries are still looking at taking the legislative axe to them, following -outrage- over a issue persistant for years.

The gravy train is over, apologist.

Stretched that a bit. Some people in two countries have come out recently to make statements that they think this should be looked into. Neither country has actively started looking into it, so far as I can see. A politician in Belgium and one (or was it two) in Hawaii.

France and Australia have both started to investigate as well. Last time the UK's government got poked about it, they said it was currently legal, but that could change (though this was before BF2.)

Investigate, yes. That's a loooooooooong step from actually doing anything. This is a bandwagon (atm). I'll be more convinced if it actually goes beyond the "we're investigating" stage and into "we're actually going to DO something aside from lip-service" stage.

Belgium has already resolved their investigation. So, it's distinctly possible you put way too many Os in your long step.

You are correct, it's a bandwagon. But, you're actually missing just how significant that is. Investors are already nervous about these aggressive microtransaction systems, and as I recently found out, EA actually put out an investor call last week trying to convince their shareholders that the current situation wouldn't affect BF2's sales. (We'll see soon how well that plays out.)

Beyond that, for a government investigation to be resolved this quickly, it's highly likely that further actions are imminent. And yes, since we're talking about governmental action, "imminent," means in a matter of months, not days or weeks.

So, yes, this is a situation where publishers have been overplaying their hand for awhile, and we're now watching this go off in their faces. The immediate consiquences you can expect won't be from governments, however. It's the investors, (and in the case of BF2, Disney not wanting its IP associated with this mess.)

MornaBaine

starkerealm wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Slyjinxy wrote: »

The whining about crown crates has become totally ridiculous.

1) They don't give anyone a game play advantage

2) They are 100% optional

3) Why are people so concerned with how other people spend their money?

4) To discourage people from playing because of something so inconsequential and again OPTIONAL is childish

I have never spent a single dime on crates, they don't interest me. The only time I even think about them is when people start these stupid threads.

It is most certainly not something that detracts from the game in any way.

And yet, through all this apology, two countries are still looking at taking the legislative axe to them, following -outrage- over a issue persistant for years.

The gravy train is over, apologist.

Stretched that a bit. Some people in two countries have come out recently to make statements that they think this should be looked into. Neither country has actively started looking into it, so far as I can see. A politician in Belgium and one (or was it two) in Hawaii.

France and Australia have both started to investigate as well. Last time the UK's government got poked about it, they said it was currently legal, but that could change (though this was before BF2.)

Investigate, yes. That's a loooooooooong step from actually doing anything. This is a bandwagon (atm). I'll be more convinced if it actually goes beyond the "we're investigating" stage and into "we're actually going to DO something aside from lip-service" stage.

Belgium has already resolved their investigation. So, it's distinctly possible you put way too many Os in your long step.

You are correct, it's a bandwagon. But, you're actually missing just how significant that is. Investors are already nervous about these aggressive microtransaction systems, and as I recently found out, EA actually put out an investor call last week trying to convince their shareholders that the current situation wouldn't affect BF2's sales. (We'll see soon how well that plays out.)

Beyond that, for a government investigation to be resolved this quickly, it's highly likely that further actions are imminent. And yes, since we're talking about governmental action, "imminent," means in a matter of months, not days or weeks.

So, yes, this is a situation where publishers have been overplaying their hand for awhile, and we're now watching this go off in their faces. The immediate consiquences you can expect won't be from governments, however. It's the investors, (and in the case of BF2, Disney not wanting its IP associated with this mess.)

All of this. I am cautiously optimistic about the outrage brewing over BF2. Publishers have finally actually managed to tick off CUSTOMERS enough that they made enough noise to draw official attention to this gamble box nonsense. At the very least, my hope is that gamemakers will scale back this horrible practice as a PR move if nothing else.

ChaosWotan

@Slick_007

I don't mind paying 200 dollars for a cool mount if good DLCs and Cyrodiil upgrades make it worth it, and even though this price is insane, I can justify it because I have - or now "had" - ESO as a hobby. Enjoying both rpg and Cyrodiil I want the best items and the coolest mounts, when riding crosscountry. Having a variety of mounts in Cyrodiil is actually nice if you play there a lot, especially since the map is basically unchanged since 2014 - almost 4 years ago!

I didn't mind supporting ESO. Continued to sub for example when I took a pause from the game after the horrible IC grind. Because I thought the devs would make large enough DLCs that made regular playing (not binge gaming) interesting and fun, in terms of new storyline content. But see now that combined DLCs through a year amount to only 40-50 hours of storyline content. Then I rather recommend serious rpg gamers to use money on the best solo rpg games, like Nier Automata, that have good stories and better graphics than ESO.

Also feel a bit cheated by the devs because the game was marketed as an mmo rpg, and not a gambling game. In an rpg game you expect all the coolest items to be available as achievements or purchases, but not hidden behind a wall of gambling. Actually wonder if this might violate some countries gambling or marketing laws. Norway for example is pretty strict in this regard.

Slick_007

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Also feel a bit cheated by the devs because the game was marketed as an mmo rpg, and not a gambling game. In an rpg game you expect all the coolest items to be available as achievements or purchases, but not hidden behind a wall of gambling. Actually wonder if this might violate some countries gambling or marketing laws. Norway for example is pretty strict in this regard.

all this fake outrage. cheated? the game is still what you started playing. just because they added some cosmetics via crates doesnt change that. stop with all this fake outrage, lying to your friends, and abusing the game and the devs.

you dont mind supporting eso? by lying to your friends and telling them they shouldnt play it? yes, thats how you support the game. by misrepresenting it to potential new players such that they do not join it. And yes, you already admitted you do this so forget about denying it.

if you were truly outraged, you would have left already. so im done responding to you and ignoring you now. you're just trolling and as such, dont deserve any attention. Either be quiet, or leave. I bet you wont leave, proving everything i said is true.

Raideen

I think you missed his point when he said " rpg game you expect all the coolest items to be available as achievements or purchases, but not hidden behind a wall of gambling". I agree with ChaosWotan. Traditionally this is in part what RPG's are about, even going back to D&D. One of the fun aspects was getting some rare loot. In ESO much of that loot is hidden behind an additional paywall (on top of a sub) and is not obtainable in game.

I share his outrage, and there is nothing fake about it.

Elsonso

Slick_007 wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Also feel a bit cheated by the devs because the game was marketed as an mmo rpg, and not a gambling game. In an rpg game you expect all the coolest items to be available as achievements or purchases, but not hidden behind a wall of gambling. Actually wonder if this might violate some countries gambling or marketing laws. Norway for example is pretty strict in this regard.

all this fake outrage. cheated? the game is still what you started playing. just because they added some cosmetics via crates doesnt change that. stop with all this fake outrage, lying to your friends, and abusing the game and the devs.

you dont mind supporting eso? by lying to your friends and telling them they shouldnt play it? yes, thats how you support the game. by misrepresenting it to potential new players such that they do not join it. And yes, you already admitted you do this so forget about denying it.

if you were truly outraged, you would have left already. so im done responding to you and ignoring you now. you're just trolling and as such, dont deserve any attention. Either be quiet, or leave. I bet you wont leave, proving everything i said is true.

People can feel cheated by them.

When playing a shooter that has cosmetic loot boxes, the cosmetics are nothing. Yes, they can hand those out as rewards for things that happen in the game, but shooters usually want better weapons, not a pink Uzi. If they want a pink Uzi, they can go to the cash shop/

Role playing games are built on character and player rewards for doing activities in the game. You do a quest, you get the reward. You kill a monster, you get the reward. More than shooters, and a lot of other games, RPG games are all about the different things that the character and player can collect, and that includes cosmetics.

For every costume, pet, and mount in the game, there is a lost opportunity to earn that item as a reward in the game. As the studio drives the cash store and scales back on development, it ends up being more and more that the cash shop is the only place to get new cosmetic rewards in the game.

For an RPG game, this can be described as being cheated out of the opportunity to earn these things in the game. It is fair to tell friends that the ESO cash store takes away some of the potential for in-game rewards. It is fair to tell them that the game will not reward them with a mount at the end of a story. It is fair to tell them that character customization is largely cash-only. For an RPG, character customization is a big thing, so if a prospective player is looking for that, they need to know that they should keep their credit card handy, if they want to play ESO that way.

That they lock a lot of this stuff behind loot crates simply makes it worse.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

R4TTIUS wrote: »

I'm still rocking the piebald

That's like riding a rare mount now, isn't it.

Reventius

Still the same game with our without crown crates. Watched Deltia open 100 of the things and I still remain unperturbed by their existence. Crappy cosmetics, mounts and potions aint really changing any ones over all experience imo. If you care about having the next shiny mount to impress randoms and guild mates then you are vapid, especially if because of this you choose to boycott the game.

fallentemplar

i got a free crown store mount :P but ive spent about 50+ AUD on them so ehh

Raideen

Reventius wrote: »

Still the same game with our without crown crates. Watched Deltia open 100 of the things and I still remain unperturbed by their existence. Crappy cosmetics, mounts and potions aint really changing any ones over all experience imo. If you care about having the next shiny mount to impress randoms and guild mates then you are vapid, especially if because of this you choose to boycott the game.

This is blatantly false. Much of the appeal in an MMO, ESPECIALLY the Elder Scrolls universe ARE the cosmetics, the art.

ESO would be terribly bland if all the "cosmetics" in the cash shop were taken out of the game.

Imagine that for the most part, all you see are the 4 horses sold in game, most of which would be the 10,000 gold horse because by your admission, cosmetics are pointless so no one would see the need to spend 50k on a horse that is no different in function.

Hell, by your estimation armor in game has no purpose other than function. I guess we should just dress everyone in the same armor, it does not change game play right?

So many holes in your theory there is not enough time in the day to dispute them.

ChaosWotan

@Slick_007

Learn to read.

Grew up with D&D and C of C in the 80s, and only started with computer games when the graphics, storylines and character development became advanced enough to replace some of that original roleplaying atmosphere. So, yeah, cosmetics = aestethics = beautiful game.

Cyrodiil is a horse simulator. Therefore it's laughable but not funny when the devs suddenly demand gambling in order to get the best mounts. Soon they will probably put other things in the gambling category of "extremely rare items", like the best houses for example.

It was kind of "tolerable" when one had the option to buy the best mounts with gems, making crown crates into a hybrid of a regular store and a casino, but now they have turned CC into pure gambling, and that was not the game I paid for.

Another relatively interesting question: Is perhaps ESO's crate gambling a lawsuit waiting to happen? With millions of players, in a global market, where countries have different laws, it's not unthinkable that an 18 years old teenager buys the disc version of ESO, not seeing any gambling warning on the cover, and gets addicted to gambling. If he has a rich and vindictive father, his parents might take ESO to court, perhaps not to win but only to ruin the reputation of ESO.

But the above is just very speculative atm. The main issue is that ESO has become very expensive without good enough DLCs to justify it. Being a thief quickly becomes boring, and being an assassin is boring too. Housing is far from optimal. A good mmo rpg must have a great variety of activities that are fun to do, again and again. Like challenging ways of breaking into houses all over the map.

That being said, ESO in 2014/15 - two or three years ago - was the best gaming experience I have had since BF1942 revolutionized online gaming. It still has so much potential. But it's no longer a game for serious rpg people who wants to play regularly through the whole year, without binge gaming. And, to use a cliche, it has lost the "wow factor". If a game isn't awesome anymore, it will simply not occur to me to recommend it.

I fully respect, of course, that others still recommend ESO, but don't appreciate being accused of lying about ESO just because I loved this game and miss its former glory - enough to spend time writing about serious issues that needs to be adressed if ESO wants to be outstanding.

Slick_007

Raideen wrote: »

Imagine that for the most part, all you see are the 4 horses sold in game, most of which would be the 10,000 gold horse because by your admission, cosmetics are pointless so no one would see the need to spend 50k on a horse that is no different in function.

why should i have to imagine that? there are 10 mounts available right now in the crown store. + the ones you get with gold.

i have 12 mounts, and i only have 1 of the buy with gold. only 2 were also, yes also, available in crates. i didnt get them via crates though. there are plenty of mounts available without using crates. you wanna talk about holes in theories, check your own first.

Raideen

Slick_007 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Imagine that for the most part, all you see are the 4 horses sold in game, most of which would be the 10,000 gold horse because by your admission, cosmetics are pointless so no one would see the need to spend 50k on a horse that is no different in function.

why should i have to imagine that? there are 10 mounts available right now in the crown store. + the ones you get with gold.

i have 12 mounts, and i only have 1 of the buy with gold. only 2 were also, yes also, available in crates. i didnt get them via crates though. there are plenty of mounts available without using crates. you wanna talk about holes in theories, check your own first.

There are 4 mounts available for sale in game, PERIOD. Any thing else comes from crates, from promotions (limited time offers) or deluxe purchase expansions. NONE of which are offered to players on a consistent basis.

My point still stands correct. Based on your logic, this game would be like Cryodil, nothing but horse mounts as far as they eye can see.

Check your theory again, its still riddled with holes.

anadandy

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a horse simulator. Therefore it's laughable but not funny when the devs suddenly demand gambling in order to get the best mounts.

Best mounts? I don't understand this - not being facetious either. How are they the "best mounts" - are they faster? more stamina? No - they just look different - and aesthetics is all in the eye of the beholder.

Raideen

anadandy wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a horse simulator. Therefore it's laughable but not funny when the devs suddenly demand gambling in order to get the best mounts.

Best mounts? I don't understand this - not being facetious either. How are they the "best mounts" - are they faster? more stamina? No - they just look different - and aesthetics is all in the eye of the beholder.

Actually aesthetics are measurable and more objective than subjective. Fibonacci numbers can prove this.

But outside of that, @ChaosWotan has a point. What is more pleasing. To see a game populated with various armors, mounts, styles, looks or to see everyone in the same outfits, same mounts, same styles, same looks?

Elsonso

anadandy wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a horse simulator. Therefore it's laughable but not funny when the devs suddenly demand gambling in order to get the best mounts.

Best mounts? I don't understand this - not being facetious either. How are they the "best mounts" - are they faster? more stamina? No - they just look different - and aesthetics is all in the eye of the beholder.

I think @ChaosWotan is mistaken about what the Crown mounts can do. They might be talking about riding lessons, though.

ChaosWotan

@lordrichter

My main is a Praetorian in Cyrodiil (after two long pauses of not playing ESO because of lack of new content) so I know what the mounts can do

I meant "best" in terms of both rpg value and having something cool to look at during endless riding in Cyrodiil.

Elsonso

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@lordrichter

My main is a Praetorian in Cyrodiil (after two long pauses of not playing ESO because of lack of new content) so I know what the mounts can do

I meant "best" in terms of both rpg value and having something cool to look at during endless riding in Cyrodiil.

Ok. I am not sure that a flashy mount really helps in PVP, though. If it does, watch out Johnny Bravo!

ChaosWotan

@lordrichter

Those new flame mounts are gank magnets in Cyrodiil

Nogawd

Let's be honest here, a lot of the hate from the crown items is because they don't have the money to spend, and hate how cool the players look that can. Instead of get money, it's easier to complain and whine about it on a public forum.

I feel good when I buy what I want. I make my character look unique and I support the game. The game needs income. Any business needs income.

Slick_007

Raideen wrote: »

There are 4 mounts available for sale in game, PERIOD. Any thing else comes from crates, from promotions (limited time offers) or deluxe purchase expansions. NONE of which are offered to players on a consistent basis.

My point still stands correct. Based on your logic, this game would be like Cryodil, nothing but horse mounts as far as they eye can see.

Check your theory again, its still riddled with holes.

have you even been to the crown store? in eso? you are talking about eso arent you? because you sure dont seem to be.

Elsonso

Slick_007 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

There are 4 mounts available for sale in game, PERIOD. Any thing else comes from crates, from promotions (limited time offers) or deluxe purchase expansions. NONE of which are offered to players on a consistent basis.

My point still stands correct. Based on your logic, this game would be like Cryodil, nothing but horse mounts as far as they eye can see.

Check your theory again, its still riddled with holes.

have you even been to the crown store? in eso? you are talking about eso arent you? because you sure dont seem to be.

It is interesting, though, when people start to think Crown Store = Crown Crates. Right?

Balamoor

Nogawd wrote: »

Let's be honest here, a lot of the hate from the crown items is because they don't have the money to spend, and hate how cool the players look that can. Instead of get money, it's easier to complain and whine about it on a public forum.

I feel good when I buy what I want. I make my character look unique and I support the game. The game needs income. Any business needs income.

Yeah I often use the analogy of the kid I use to go to high school with....he would go into this homicidal rage every time some other student drove by in a nicer car.


Since crown crates were introduced......
I have received tells asking me why I didn't spend my money on charities, one guy told me that I was going to be drug out on the street and shot one day with all the other rich <Expletive> and those two are the minor incidents, and that's nothing compared to what happend to three of my former guild mates, and to this very day one of my guildies will not ride her Plague Husk mount in any city because she knows she will get harassed.

And if you bring it up on the forums the very people that belongs to the group who are doing this calls you a liar.

The sad part of all this is it happens because the CM's allow it, they flat out refuse to address it and one day sadly that is going to bite them in the rear after some nutter goes too far. There are a few simple things that can be done that will make this community less toxic, but for whatever reason it's not a priority.

ChaosWotan

@Balamoor

Sorry to hear about harrasment directed at specific individuals, especially because of cosmetics. That is envy, jealousy and just mean. ESO, however, should not have created this situation in the first place, with a huge divide bewteen the 0.2 percenters and the rest of population in Tamriel. You don't need to be Freud to predict that this increasing inequality in the game will breed toxicity, no matter whether one thinks it's justified or not.

@Nogawd

I started this thread, and I didn't do it out of envy. If you don't believe me, meet me in the game and you can visit my tropical island and see my humble "garage" of apex mounts. I only react now because no rpg game should put the coolest items behind a wall of pure gambling, like ESO did with the radiant mounts. If this practice continues, we will soon see "radiant estates", "radiant furniture" and other radiant items that are only available to people who can afford to gamble in Vegas and Monaco. If ESO needs those kind of people to survive, then the game isn't fun anymore. It will only alienate 99.8 of us gamers each time we see items that will always be out of reach. The situation is already bad enough with the apex mounts and luxury estates.

This is a game remember, which people use in order to dream and take a pause from the often ruthless competition in real life. Like it or not, the social atmosphere in the game will only get worse if ESO now attracts rich gamblers flashing their wealth in the game.

KanedaSyndrome

ChaosWotan wrote: »

H...200 dollars for an "extremely rare" apex mount...

It's probably closer to 5000 dollars.

Ryvyr

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I've never bought a single loot box in any game I play, and they are in almost every game I play. Guess what, that decision didn't affect my gameplay in any way. These are cosmetic items. Who gives a *** if someone else has them? Play the game as if those items aren't available to you (and they aren't, if you choose not to buy them). There are plenty of cool things you can unlock in game or for straight cash purchases.

Just a critique on that limited framing, it doesn't account for the social pressure which business driven people are fully aware their potential profit. Of course, there's no mandate to purchase crates, and mentioning it seems more like a trope at this point, perhaps thinking it unspoken. The persistence on "it's not forced therefor" appears similar to claiming "it's legal therefor," which addresses the technicality but not the core behind why it's there at all. In this and many games' case, profit is the drive, and quite easily ethics can be disregarded and rationalized using such mentioned trope arguments.

From the sociological perspective, some people appear to thrive on lording over others whilst other people prefer enjoying the game without bells and whistles. Aside the psychological primers, games constantly strive to blend temptation of the micros with a seamlessly pleasant gaming experience, not really having to try to keep a steady stream of ancillary income from people who will eagerly spend vast amounts of working class money on in-game content.

Social weaving in games is not new, though in ZOE's case, it seems like they really push for the most profit whilst overtly pushing the bounds of what the player base will likely begrudgingly bear. Per their RNG algorithms at least aware of, it feels like punishing people for daring to drop money on crates.

Anyways, I hope in vain that the trope of "it's not required" will eventually be understood as unspoken so that more fruitful substance can be pursued as to the whys and balance ratios.

Brrrofski

Edit: just realized this was a necro

duendology

So here we go again...whining about crates...

To the OP:

You have interesting friends, I'd say. Who confuse mmos with shopping? Crowns store is all about cosmetics. You don't need them to enjoy the game. I don't need them but sometimes I do have some extra cash to "waste" on cosmetics. And I do not play ESO to impress other players what cool mount or costume I bought or "rng-ed" lol.

I too got a few people already into ESO and they all enjoy the game. One of them, being a former W.o.W, player, even praised that unlike in WOW you don't have to pay monthly to even be able play the game. But most importantly, they understand the nature and function of in-game stores. And they do understand the nature of loot boxes / crown crates too.

EDIT:
apparently responded to a very old thread. Didn't start the "necroing" though. sorry, sorry