Lets Talk werewolf
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Rmmichael95
✭✭
I would like to use this post to talk about the current state of WW in eso and how to improve it going forward.
This will primarily concern pvp, where WW is struggling. I feel WW is in a much better place in PvE as I can do maelstrom and 4 man content fine on a WW, although letting WWs use synergies would be good.
WW advantages:
-fast (unique speed buff when transformed)
-most actions have multiple affects
-easy to get high max stam, weapon damage, resistances (unique stam, resist, weapon damage buffs)
-high burst damage, high damage from free light/heavy attacks + bleed
-best major defile in the game
-furthest gap closer in the game
-more heavy attack resource return
-ability to set enemies off balance easily(exploiter)
-more stam recovery
-pets that auto resummon
-can be used as any class to adjust play style
WW disadvantages:
-new resource bar(WW timer)
-high ability cost(if howl is dodged it is a huge hit)
-burst heals from magic(can be considered an advantage)
-no viable hot
-high ult cost
-pets don't resummon after character death
-one ability bar
-losses weapon passives
-take more damage from fighters guild abilities and poison
-cannot use synergies (more for PvE)
-cannot rez allies
Expanding on some of the points above:
WW is very fast, and while it is very powerful to use this, especially with major expedition, it is not as powerful as snares are in the current game and one stampede will have you basically motionless as a giant target. I tried warden + orc to see if this was better but was still too slowed to use the speed as an advantage without a cleanse available. This is fine but increases the WWs need for a reliable way to get health back when pushed to the defensive or a need for an escape for a chance recover.
Although WWs only have one ability bar, all 5 abilities have multiple effects. Even tho WWs have limited skills, every button press can accomplish more.
WWs have a verity of unique buffs that will stack with other available buffs in the game: 15% stam recovery, 9966 resistances, 18% weapon damage + 10% from hircine's rage, 30% max stam
WWs have a 7m aeo major defile. I feel this is one of the best skills in the game and a huge way WWs get kills. This skill being so effective in pvp is one of the reasons claws of life is not a viable HoT
WWs get a 100% more resources from heavy attacks, this lets us get stamina back very quickly if we can get heavy attacks off, which is difficult on a WW, especially without a HoT
WWs cannot use synergies. This feels out of place with the game when synergies are so important. As you don't ever see humans running with wolf packs, I don't feel adding this would really effect pvp in any meta way.
Claws of life is a very effective skill in PvE, it allows me to very comfortable do maelstrom without only relying on magic for healing. In PvP, it can be a reasonable heal, 1-2k every 2 sec if it is on 3-4 people, but the low duration and difficulty of keeping it up when being focused by 4 players makes this much less effective, especially when rebuffing the enemies healing is so effective this patch.
The burst heal from magic can be very strong, especially with pelinals and a decent magic pool. The problem with this heal, more so then its cost, is that to use it, which in our case is healing at all on a WW, we have to stop attacking and cast it. Stam build are very effective healing with vigor because they can play evasively while it ticks of even burst heal with rally while it ticks. The WW heal cannot be effectively used in the same way and there are not viable hots to combo it with so one person running a heavy dot build means you cant do anything but cast heal.
What fixes these issues best now: Hint: Be a tank
There are a few things that could help that I have found when making WWs with less damage and more sustainability. Although it was possibly to make a WW that I could more or less play like any class, the resulting loss in damage meant that a player running a normal ult could burst more effectively and although I could now heal in a comparable way to really vigor, I couldn't kill good players.
I was able to raise my suitability reasonably well with troll kings although this alone was not enough be able to make much of a difference outside of duels.
lich and prisoners both enabled very good sustainability although prisoners is easily countered with snares, roots and stuns which can be used to render it useless.
raise max health/resist to withstand burst
gottbeards pelinals WW is also sustainable but the bust heal off WW naturally favors a tank.
What can we do:
WW has seen a lot of progress with the addition of sets like pelinals and shacklebreaker, so adding more sets that would help with the hybridization of resources is definitely a good and proven way to buff WW while enabling other players.
WWs have also seens buffs from food. Dubious Camoran Throne and Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch can both work great with the right sets. Even the new Clockwork Citrus Filet looks interesting, adding an accompanying max health & recov/max stam & recov would definitely buff WW.
Another possible buff to WW that would enable other players is adding an accompanying magic recovery for the stam recovery of a WW, but this would obviously be too powerful compared to vamp so we can throw that out.
Give WW some way to counter play snare to make better use of speed.
An accompanying health recovery buff can be added to WW. This could get too strong so it could be added in the transformed state. This makes sense vamps lose recovery and health recovery now has a counterplay with defile. I feel this would work well with troll king on a WW without being too strong as our burst heal hits for 5k+, it will heal too much to proc troll king unless used intelligently.
Recap:
Buff WW with some combination of sets added, food added, or direct change to class passives, WW passives, or lesser used WW skill morphs. Let WWs use synergies. Let WWs rez players.
If anyone has thought or additions please add them below. Lets start a discussion to help zos make WW great again.
P.S. I have not talked about transforming into a WW for burst and gong back because I feel the risk reward compared to a high damage build using another ult isn't worth it.
Side note, fear used to take NBs out of stealth, The WW fear has a cast time and slows the caster. Without this mechanic it is nearly impossible to fight a good NB without a detect pot. Please consider putting this effect back on the WW fear as most NBs can avoid it anyway.
Edited by Rmmichael95 on November 26, 2017 3:06AM This will primarily concern pvp, where WW is struggling. I feel WW is in a much better place in PvE as I can do maelstrom and 4 man content fine on a WW, although letting WWs use synergies would be good.
WW advantages:
-fast (unique speed buff when transformed)
-most actions have multiple affects
-easy to get high max stam, weapon damage, resistances (unique stam, resist, weapon damage buffs)
-high burst damage, high damage from free light/heavy attacks + bleed
-best major defile in the game
-furthest gap closer in the game
-more heavy attack resource return
-ability to set enemies off balance easily(exploiter)
-more stam recovery
-pets that auto resummon
-can be used as any class to adjust play style
WW disadvantages:
-new resource bar(WW timer)
-high ability cost(if howl is dodged it is a huge hit)
-burst heals from magic(can be considered an advantage)
-no viable hot
-high ult cost
-pets don't resummon after character death
-one ability bar
-losses weapon passives
-take more damage from fighters guild abilities and poison
-cannot use synergies (more for PvE)
-cannot rez allies
Expanding on some of the points above:
WW is very fast, and while it is very powerful to use this, especially with major expedition, it is not as powerful as snares are in the current game and one stampede will have you basically motionless as a giant target. I tried warden + orc to see if this was better but was still too slowed to use the speed as an advantage without a cleanse available. This is fine but increases the WWs need for a reliable way to get health back when pushed to the defensive or a need for an escape for a chance recover.
Although WWs only have one ability bar, all 5 abilities have multiple effects. Even tho WWs have limited skills, every button press can accomplish more.
WWs have a verity of unique buffs that will stack with other available buffs in the game: 15% stam recovery, 9966 resistances, 18% weapon damage + 10% from hircine's rage, 30% max stam
WWs have a 7m aeo major defile. I feel this is one of the best skills in the game and a huge way WWs get kills. This skill being so effective in pvp is one of the reasons claws of life is not a viable HoT
WWs get a 100% more resources from heavy attacks, this lets us get stamina back very quickly if we can get heavy attacks off, which is difficult on a WW, especially without a HoT
WWs cannot use synergies. This feels out of place with the game when synergies are so important. As you don't ever see humans running with wolf packs, I don't feel adding this would really effect pvp in any meta way.
Claws of life is a very effective skill in PvE, it allows me to very comfortable do maelstrom without only relying on magic for healing. In PvP, it can be a reasonable heal, 1-2k every 2 sec if it is on 3-4 people, but the low duration and difficulty of keeping it up when being focused by 4 players makes this much less effective, especially when rebuffing the enemies healing is so effective this patch.
The burst heal from magic can be very strong, especially with pelinals and a decent magic pool. The problem with this heal, more so then its cost, is that to use it, which in our case is healing at all on a WW, we have to stop attacking and cast it. Stam build are very effective healing with vigor because they can play evasively while it ticks of even burst heal with rally while it ticks. The WW heal cannot be effectively used in the same way and there are not viable hots to combo it with so one person running a heavy dot build means you cant do anything but cast heal.
What fixes these issues best now: Hint: Be a tank
There are a few things that could help that I have found when making WWs with less damage and more sustainability. Although it was possibly to make a WW that I could more or less play like any class, the resulting loss in damage meant that a player running a normal ult could burst more effectively and although I could now heal in a comparable way to really vigor, I couldn't kill good players.
I was able to raise my suitability reasonably well with troll kings although this alone was not enough be able to make much of a difference outside of duels.
lich and prisoners both enabled very good sustainability although prisoners is easily countered with snares, roots and stuns which can be used to render it useless.
raise max health/resist to withstand burst
gottbeards pelinals WW is also sustainable but the bust heal off WW naturally favors a tank.
What can we do:
WW has seen a lot of progress with the addition of sets like pelinals and shacklebreaker, so adding more sets that would help with the hybridization of resources is definitely a good and proven way to buff WW while enabling other players.
WWs have also seens buffs from food. Dubious Camoran Throne and Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch can both work great with the right sets. Even the new Clockwork Citrus Filet looks interesting, adding an accompanying max health & recov/max stam & recov would definitely buff WW.
Another possible buff to WW that would enable other players is adding an accompanying magic recovery for the stam recovery of a WW, but this would obviously be too powerful compared to vamp so we can throw that out.
Give WW some way to counter play snare to make better use of speed.
An accompanying health recovery buff can be added to WW. This could get too strong so it could be added in the transformed state. This makes sense vamps lose recovery and health recovery now has a counterplay with defile. I feel this would work well with troll king on a WW without being too strong as our burst heal hits for 5k+, it will heal too much to proc troll king unless used intelligently.
Recap:
Buff WW with some combination of sets added, food added, or direct change to class passives, WW passives, or lesser used WW skill morphs. Let WWs use synergies. Let WWs rez players.
If anyone has thought or additions please add them below. Lets start a discussion to help zos make WW great again.
P.S. I have not talked about transforming into a WW for burst and gong back because I feel the risk reward compared to a high damage build using another ult isn't worth it.
Side note, fear used to take NBs out of stealth, The WW fear has a cast time and slows the caster. Without this mechanic it is nearly impossible to fight a good NB without a detect pot. Please consider putting this effect back on the WW fear as most NBs can avoid it anyway.
Masters of the Imperial Harem
CP 660+
50 Magicka Dunmer Dragon Knight
50 Magicka Altmer Sorceror
50 Magicka Breton Templar
50 Magicka Altmer Templar
50 Stamina Orc Dragon Knight
50 Stamina Khajiit Night Blade
50 Stamina Redguard Sorceror
50 Argonian Sap Tank - retired
50 Templar Hybrid Redguard Werewolf
50 Magicka Altmer Proxy Night Blade
50 Argonian Balzing Shield
50 Stamina Bosmer Bow
50 Warden Argonian Tank Heals
50 Warden Hybrid Orc Werewolf
CP 660+
50 Magicka Dunmer Dragon Knight
50 Magicka Altmer Sorceror
50 Magicka Breton Templar
50 Magicka Altmer Templar
50 Stamina Orc Dragon Knight
50 Stamina Khajiit Night Blade
50 Stamina Redguard Sorceror
50 Argonian Sap Tank - retired
50 Templar Hybrid Redguard Werewolf
50 Magicka Altmer Proxy Night Blade
50 Argonian Balzing Shield
50 Stamina Bosmer Bow
50 Warden Argonian Tank Heals
50 Warden Hybrid Orc Werewolf
3
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Aztlan✭✭✭✭I would agree with most of this.
If you want to stay in form for an extended time, which requires letting class buffs drop off, the key is to run with a pack of other wolves. Nobody is going to focus you down when there are 3 or more other wolves around you, you can stay in form indefinitely, and you can also benefit from the Feeding Frenzy synergy. (Werewolves can at least activate that, right?)
The one change I'd like to see the most is allowing werewolves to rez other players, or even just other wolves. If I can pull out a pickaxe and gather ore while in form, I should also be able to rez.Edited by Aztlan on November 23, 2017 2:32PM2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My suggestions:
Note that I´m not implying that all of these suggestions should take place since that would be stupid in the sake of balance, I would be happy if like 2 or 3 were even considered. And before people call out that my suggestions would make WW´s OP or broken, ask yourself how many WW`s you see in PvP compared to other classes/setups. On PC/EU I see a WW player maybe once a month (Battlegrounds and Cyrodil). They´re rare because people see no use in playing them aside from the fun of playing something else for once, but speaking of pure performance WW´s are far behind. Only thing I can give WW´s are that they´re strong in a 1v1 situation, but that´s nothing unique for WW´s.
* Bring back the ability to be "perma-WW" while in a group with 4/5 other WW´s
* Change Howl so it´s not considered an projectile (aka --> non-reflectable)
* Change how Hircine´s Fortitude works. Instead of giving a mediocre HoT, it now removes X amount of snares and other negative effects on you. This way you´ll have to choose between more damage (Hircine´s Rage) or more survivability (Hircine´s Fortitude).
* Reduce the cost of WW´s abilities by 5-10%
* Make it possible to acquire ultimate in WW-form.
* Increased stealth-detection range. Add this to their passive. Let´s be real, you´re a werewolf, a predator, and dogs/WW´s in general have a very good sense of smell. Adding this to their passives would be nice as well.
* Another thing to add to passives: Increased HP-recovery with lesser HP. In Witcher 3 WW´s get more HP-recovery the less HP they´ve left, would be cool to see such a feature
@Wrobel Please consider some changes to Werewolfs in a near future. Would love to see some improvements
Edited by Qbiken on November 23, 2017 2:52PM5 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭Woof woof! Auum woof woo aumm, woof wooff woooof. Woof woooff wooffffff.
Aum woof, woof woof woo wooooo.
Did I do it right?Edited by Sneaky-Snurr on November 23, 2017 4:21PMThe Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just one comment: WW does not have an unique speed buff. WW is fast because a sprinting WW automatically gets major expedition applied to them. This does not stack with another source of major expedition. I tested this with that set that gives major expedition while sprinting(to anyone) - a WW sprinting with this set on is not any faster than without the set.Edited by Sharee on November 23, 2017 5:16PM4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of the disadvantages are real. Not able to grab a synergy and loss of the weapon passives for sure.
However, even OP suggests the heal he lists as a disadvantage may actually be an advantage and I think complaining because WW does not have a second heal that is a HoT is disingenuous.
Any skill that is dodged becomes a higher cost skill. Each of us in our builds likely have something that can be dodged.
Taking extra damage from poisons and FG skills (only when in WW form) is a disadvantage but an appropriate one.
As long as the WW is taking damage they stay in form. Have seen WWs stay in form for a very long time without doing anything but damaging their targets.
Technically the WW bar is a third bar. Also, I do not believe a WW can use non WW skills. May be wrong since I have not tested it. After all they are in WW form and cannot hold weapons.
I will stop there. Yes, a couple/few of the listed disadvantages are real, the rest are merely the OP would like it be different.
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Rmmichael95✭✭Great replies people, really liking some of the insight.I would agree with most of this.
If you want to stay in form for an extended time, which requires letting class buffs drop off, the key is to run with a pack of other wolves. Nobody is going to focus you down when there are 3 or more other wolves around you, you can stay in form indefinitely, and you can also benefit from the Feeding Frenzy synergy. (Werewolves can at least activate that, right?)
The one change I'd like to see the most is allowing werewolves to rez other players, or even just other wolves. If I can pull out a pickaxe and gather ore while in form, I should also be able to rez.
I think the time in WW is fine, with damage, and leaps I have no trouble staying in WW. I didn't think of rezing when writing this but great thought, I would say that is one of the best changes to make. I don't play with any other WWs so my perspective is from a WW with some humans.My suggestions:
Only thing I can give WW´s are that they´re strong in a 1v1 situation, but that´s nothing unique for WW´s.
* Bring back the ability to be "perma-WW" while in a group with 4/5 other WW´s
* Change Howl so it´s not considered an projectile (aka --> non-reflectable)
* Change how Hircine´s Fortitude works. Instead of giving a mediocre HoT, it now removes X amount of snares and other negative effects on you. This way you´ll have to choose between more damage (Hircine´s Rage) or more survivability (Hircine´s Fortitude).
* Reduce the cost of WW´s abilities by 5-10%
* Make it possible to acquire ultimate in WW-form.
* Increased stealth-detection range. Add this to their passive. Let´s be real, you´re a werewolf, a predator, and dogs/WW´s in general have a very good sense of smell. Adding this to their passives would be nice as well.
* Another thing to add to passives: Increased HP-recovery with lesser HP. In Witcher 3 WW´s get more HP-recovery the less HP they´ve left, would be cool to see such a feature
@Wrobel Please consider some changes to Werewolfs in a near future. Would love to see some improvements
I agree, if it is a duel I can make a WW that is competitive no issues an I have a lot of fun.
I definitely like the hp regen idea because as I said when I suggested doing something with hp regen, it just makes sense (lore wise, counter play wise, skillful game play wise).
The steal detect rage is a good idea although it may be overpowered. I liked the unstealth on fear because I already get fears off often on NBs when they gap close but when I'm chasing them it is more difficult so there is a lot of counter play.
The change to hircine's fortitude is another amazing one. As I said, it's not that it is a completely useless HoT (it is pretty dinky), it is that the other morph is so much better in every situation. It would also work very well at mitigating the drawbacks to using prisoners.Just one comment: WW does not have an unique speed buff. WW is fast because a sprinting WW automatically gets major expedition applied to them. This does not stack with another source of major expedition. I tested this with that set that gives major expedition while sprinting(to anyone) - a WW sprinting with this set on is not any faster than without the set.
Awesome catch. Thanks for sharing. I think all WW content I have seen has gotten that wrong.
However, even OP suggests the heal he lists as a disadvantage may actually be an advantage and I think complaining because WW does not have a second heal that is a HoT is disingenuous.
Technically the WW bar is a third bar. Also, I do not believe a WW can use non WW skills. May be wrong since I have not tested it. After all they are in WW form and cannot hold weapons.
I said the heal can be considered an advantage. Gottbeards build made very good use of it in thieves guild. I don't feel that saying they have no HoT is disingenuous. As I detailed above this shows itself in the form of having to stop and heal to heal, while taking more damage from 2 of the biggest and most used DoTs in the game (DB and PI), and being more susceptible to snares makes this disadvantage need some looking at.
As for your comments on some of the disadvantages that i did not quote, I didn't expand on any of those in my original post because I don't see a problem with them. I was merely trying to lists out the advantages and disadvantages of WW as I see them.
Yes but as I said in my post script I will be largely ignoring using WW to burst and focusing on combat in WW form. WWs cannot use non WW skills, when I said can use classes to adjust play style I was referencing passives and hinting at dk or stam sorc for transforming to burst.
Even if these are the only replies this thread was worth it. Some really cool ideas and info here.
Edited by Rmmichael95 on November 23, 2017 7:05PMMasters of the Imperial Harem
CP 660+
50 Magicka Dunmer Dragon Knight
50 Magicka Altmer Sorceror
50 Magicka Breton Templar
50 Magicka Altmer Templar
50 Stamina Orc Dragon Knight
50 Stamina Khajiit Night Blade
50 Stamina Redguard Sorceror
50 Argonian Sap Tank - retired
50 Templar Hybrid Redguard Werewolf
50 Magicka Altmer Proxy Night Blade
50 Argonian Balzing Shield
50 Stamina Bosmer Bow
50 Warden Argonian Tank Heals
50 Warden Hybrid Orc Werewolf1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WW's biggest issue is that WW heavy attacks didn't get their resource return buffed like every other heavy attack in the game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno0331
06023 -
Rmmichael95✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »WW's biggest issue is that WW heavy attacks didn't get their resource return buffed like every other heavy attack in the game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Funny, my first thought when reading the plans to make heavy attacks faster was, "Bet they don't put this on WW."Masters of the Imperial Harem
CP 660+
50 Magicka Dunmer Dragon Knight
50 Magicka Altmer Sorceror
50 Magicka Breton Templar
50 Magicka Altmer Templar
50 Stamina Orc Dragon Knight
50 Stamina Khajiit Night Blade
50 Stamina Redguard Sorceror
50 Argonian Sap Tank - retired
50 Templar Hybrid Redguard Werewolf
50 Magicka Altmer Proxy Night Blade
50 Argonian Balzing Shield
50 Stamina Bosmer Bow
50 Warden Argonian Tank Heals
50 Warden Hybrid Orc Werewolf0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just one comment: WW does not have an unique speed buff. WW is fast because a sprinting WW automatically gets major expedition applied to them. This does not stack with another source of major expedition. I tested this with that set that gives major expedition while sprinting(to anyone) - a WW sprinting with this set on is not any faster than without the set.
Not true, werewolf does not gain major expedition when sprinting...
What you are experiencing is hitting the speed cap (100% movement speed increase), before major expedition kicks in. They added this cap so speedsters wouldn't rule capture the relic in Battlegrounds.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not true, werewolf does not gain major expedition when sprinting...
What you are experiencing is hitting the speed cap (100% movement speed increase), before major expedition kicks in. They added this cap so speedsters wouldn't rule capture the relic in Battlegrounds.
I was doing this testing before the speed cap was introduced. Specifically, i was testing it at the time when the "get major expedition while sprinting" set was introduced. The speed cap came in a later patch.
Also, the character i was doing the testing on wasn't particularly speedy, so he wouldn't have hit the speed cap even if it was a thing already. It was just a stock redguard warden - no mundus speed, no orc, no windrunning etc. Just the basic sprinting+werewolf speed.
You can test this for yourself even today. Take a werewolf character with no other speed bonuses, and test sprint speed. This won't hit the speed cap(sprint is 40%, expedition is 30% - cap is 100%). Now equip Cowards' Gear set. If the speed bonus worked, you should see a 30% speed increase, but you won't - the speed will be the same.Edited by Sharee on November 24, 2017 6:50AM0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the wyrd tree set has helped me a whole bunch to deal with getting poisoned all the time...
need to finish putting together a barkskin set for the snares - although, both my active ww's now wear 7 heavy...
seeing how they have a very limited ranged game, high health and resistances was necessary for me to stay alive and fight up close in zergy situations...Edited by geonsocal on November 24, 2017 7:32AMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the wyrd tree set has helped me a whole bunch to deal with getting poisoned all the time...
need to finish putting together a barkskin set for the snares - although, both my active ww's now wear 7 heavy...
seeing how they have a very limited ranged game, high health and resistances was necessary for me to stay alive and fight up close in zergy situations...
I solved this by wearing 2 different monster set pieces, both that give physical/magical resistance as their 1 piece bonus (pirate skeleton etc.). That way i can wear medium armor while still having the resistances as if i was using heavy.2 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always thought werewolf needed an escape like vampire has . A escape charge that knocks down people around them and gives 6 seconds snare / damage immunity and speed increase . I thought something like that would balance it out for backing out and recovering resources in a fight . No healing while charging out for balance .Edited by Rohamad_Ali on November 24, 2017 8:55AM1 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I was doing this testing before the speed cap was introduced. Specifically, i was testing it at the time when the "get major expedition while sprinting" set was introduced. The speed cap came in a later patch.
Also, the character i was doing the testing on wasn't particularly speedy, so he wouldn't have hit the speed cap even if it was a thing already. It was just a stock redguard warden - no mundus speed, no orc, no windrunning etc. Just the basic sprinting+werewolf speed.
You can test this for yourself even today. Take a werewolf character with no other speed bonuses, and test sprint speed. This won't hit the speed cap(sprint is 40%, expedition is 30% - cap is 100%). Now equip Cowards' Gear set. If the speed bonus worked, you should see a 30% speed increase, but you won't - the speed will be the same.
Tested it today... you get major expedition buff and werewolf buff speed...
Numbers will be slightly inaccurate due to human inconsistency but no doubt that the numbers tell the truth... could do some longer range testing to even out the numbers better but don't really need to...
HUMAN RUN: 21 sec
WEREWOLF RUN: 17 sec
HUMAN RUN W/Major Ex: 17 sec
WEREWOLF RUN W/Major Ex: 13 sec
HUMAN SPRINT: 14 Sec
WEREWOLF SPRINT: 12 sec
HUMAN SPRINT W/Major Ex: 11s
WEREWOLF SPRINT W/Major Ex 10s
Looks like my wolf dropped 2 seconds with the speed pot.
Maybe cowards is broken... didn't test that...
Trust me when running with a pack of werewolves, 1/2 using my build, you can tell when someone pops a speed pot.
We're you wearing medium armor if so you have to take the 15% into consideration for 5, and 21% for 7.Edited by Chrlynsch on November 24, 2017 4:35PMCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Rmmichael95✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »I always thought werewolf needed an escape like vampire has . A escape charge that knocks down people around them and gives 6 seconds snare / damage immunity and speed increase . I thought something like that would balance it out for backing out and recovering resources in a fight . No healing while charging out for balance .
I agree. If the WW had a more reliable way of escaping to get a second to think like a non wolf it would be great. I used to love my wolf in IC back in the day because of all the builds making the wolf more maneuverable. I don't like being on a super fast dps and feeling like I can only play a tank with some dps. I love my wolf tank, he poops on block knights, but I was to be able to play WW some other style and not need a full pack.
Tested it today... you get major expedition buff and werewolf buff speed...
Numbers will be slightly inaccurate due to human inconsistency but no doubt that the numbers tell the truth... could do some longer range testing to even out the numbers better but don't really need to...
HUMAN RUN: 21 sec
WEREWOLF RUN: 17 sec
HUMAN RUN W/Major Ex: 17 sec
WEREWOLF RUN W/Major Ex: 13 sec
HUMAN SPRINT: 14 Sec
WEREWOLF SPRINT: 12 sec
HUMAN SPRINT W/Major Ex: 11s
WEREWOLF SPRINT W/Major Ex 10s
Looks like my wolf dropped 2 seconds with the speed pot.
Maybe cowards is broken... didn't test that...
Trust me when running with a pack of werewolves, 1/2 using my build, you can tell when someone pops a speed pot.
Could someone at zos just check the code and tell us. lol. I agree tho, cowards was worthless but I do notice speed pots. I always assumed it was because cowards needed sprinting.Edited by Rmmichael95 on November 24, 2017 4:35PMMasters of the Imperial Harem
CP 660+
50 Magicka Dunmer Dragon Knight
50 Magicka Altmer Sorceror
50 Magicka Breton Templar
50 Magicka Altmer Templar
50 Stamina Orc Dragon Knight
50 Stamina Khajiit Night Blade
50 Stamina Redguard Sorceror
50 Argonian Sap Tank - retired
50 Templar Hybrid Redguard Werewolf
50 Magicka Altmer Proxy Night Blade
50 Argonian Balzing Shield
50 Stamina Bosmer Bow
50 Warden Argonian Tank Heals
50 Warden Hybrid Orc Werewolf1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Tested it today... you get major expedition buff and werewolf buff speed...
Numbers will be slightly inaccurate due to human inconsistency but no doubt that the numbers tell the truth... could do some longer range testing to even out the numbers better but don't really need to...
HUMAN RUN: 21 sec
WEREWOLF RUN: 17 sec
HUMAN RUN W/Major Ex: 17 sec
WEREWOLF RUN W/Major Ex: 13 sec
HUMAN SPRINT: 14 Sec
WEREWOLF SPRINT: 12 sec
HUMAN SPRINT W/Major Ex: 11s
WEREWOLF SPRINT W/Major Ex 10s
Looks like my wolf dropped 2 seconds with the speed pot.
Maybe cowards is broken... didn't test that...
Trust me when running with a pack of werewolves, 1/2 using my build, you can tell when someone pops a speed pot.
We're you wearing medium armor if so you have to take the 15% into consideration for 5, and 21% for 7.
I will test with a speed pot.
But one comment: I did not test the time, instead i tested the distance.
I activated wolf form, then sprinted along a set track until WW form ran out. Then i equipped coward's gear, and repeated the exercise. In both cases, WW form ran out at approximately the same spot.
Since you can run a fairly long distance as a sprinting WW, a relatively small difference in speed would translate into a much more noticeable difference in distance between the two runs(much more noticeable to "naked human eye" than the difference between 10s and 12s, is what i mean). During my test, the difference was a couple of steps at best, easily attributable to not following the track exactly.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay, so new test results in.
It appears that major expedition indeed does increase werewolf sprinting speed, altho to a much lesser degree than i would expect.[edit: might be due to hitting the speed cap! This one was an orc] This image shows the difference between the distances a sprinting werewolf can cover with and without major expedition before WW form runs out:
And this is the map of the whole track i ran:
The test was done both with a speed potion and with coward's gear (one after another) - the results are the same.
As a side note, this is the exact same spot where i tested WW speed just after Coward's Gear came out. In both cases (with and without it) my test ended exactly in the middle of the bridge you see on the screenshot. So something definitely changed between back then and now.Edited by Sharee on November 24, 2017 6:36PM2 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Okay, so new test results in.
It appears that major expedition indeed does increase werewolf sprinting speed, altho to a much lesser degree than i would expect.[edit: might be due to hitting the speed cap! This one was an orc] This image shows the difference between the distances a sprinting werewolf can cover with and without major expedition before WW form runs out:
And this is the map of the whole track i ran:
The test was done both with a speed potion and with coward's gear (one after another) - the results are the same.
As a side note, this is the exact same spot where i tested WW speed just after Coward's Gear came out. In both cases (with and without it) my test ended exactly in the middle of the bridge you see on the screenshot. So something definitely changed between back then and now.
Funny I did a similar test as well glad you did the test so I didn't have to figure out the how to upload a side by side video. Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On another note,
I am a vet werewolf player that has used over a hundred build combinations, with hundreds of hours of werewolf gameplay. Here is some insight, and opinions to the current state of the werewolf, primarily focusing on PVP elements.
- It is too confusing. At least for new players. It has buffs, passives, removal of passives, stats increasing, increased damage from certain damage types, removal of base gameplay mechanics... the whole thing has an uneasyfeeling of dealing with a shortchange artist. Let's look at a couple of examples.
1. How much Stamina do you gain in form? No where is it listed in game... but cool let's roll with it because increasing stamina will increase our damage. Oh but wait the werewolf ability costs are among the highest in the game. Didn't I just pay 300 ulti to gain access to these abilities, now I gotta shell out massive amounts of resources to use them?
2. Persuit Passive increases your heavy attack return by 100% ! Awesome!! Bet you didn't know that the base stamina return is the lowest in the game... so instead of a real passive, we got this... just increase the stamina base return to its current place and give us a real passive.
3. Werewolves are Fast! Right up until they hit the speed cap, don't worry they won't be there long... because they have no natural way to shake snares, snares that exist on every other ability in the game that can stack without . Don't worry none of the werewolf's abilities have a snare of their own, meaning you can kite them pretty easily.
4. Devour your fallen enemies, except all the NPC disappear within moments (to combat lag), and players can rez in the middle of a devour leaving you nothing for your effort even though their gluteus maximus is inside very much inside the werewolf's tummy.
5. Heal Scales from Magic... huh? Their primary form of survival, and it scales from the stat that werewolf or any stamina character for that matter has no place putting gear or stats into.
6. No sneaking, no placing siege, no rezzing? Wait why? And where does it say that we can't do that anymore? We just can't.
I will stop there for now.
Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA6 -
RouDeR✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Broke with the Clockwork City
That's not nice. Strange it used to work when it granted a free stamina ability, wonder how that broke... 0 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭After all these years, still no way to shake snares... at this point I'd just be happy to have them updated it aesthetically.0 -
RGvolterra✭✭✭As a matter of fact the WW abilities and passives need a re-shape to make the WW a competitive candidate in the battlefield. I’ve beeb playing ESO since day one and one of the things that motivated me to remain till now was the possibility to become part of all my childhood fantasies. I’ve always been passionate about werewolves and therefore have watched all its related films. I remember how many WW dedicated build players we used to have back to the first and second year of ESO. Most of those players just lost the interest and the motivation to carry on playing as they came to the conclusion that their dream to see their wolves rise from the ashes and turn out to be what they were meant to be a delusion. I’ve been part of a great pack and most of my guild mates have applied plenty of efforts and time about designing a WW build that could endure the heat of the war in cyrodil since their adversaries were powerful players ignited by an unbalanced PVP system where being a vampire would safeguard their intents. Only those who are really passionate about Werewolves have remained..., obviously most of players always go for mechanisms that can empower them therefore the number of wolves in the battlefield is just insignificant. Let’s make our wolf be a real beast, let’s push for a better and more balanced pvp system, let’s fight for a stronger, competitive and more rewarding Werewolf.1
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a question regarding WW: Does the Hunt leader set procs on the summned wolves?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
kessik221✭✭✭Werewolf is OP, nerf werewolf.
OP listed all the strengths of being a werewolf, I would like someone to list an ult that gives you everything a werewolf does. It doesn't exist. Werewolves are niche brawlers and small group pvpers. They excel at that, it ain't broke just because you want to run herpaderp zergs in cyrodil.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Werewolf is OP, nerf werewolf.
OP listed all the strengths of being a werewolf, I would like someone to list an ult that gives you everything a werewolf does. It doesn't exist.
Another ultimate that carries as many disadvantages as the werewolf one doesn't exist either.
Edited by Sharee on November 30, 2017 7:56AM1
