ZOS: Constant Microtransactions

TheImpaler101K

I'm getting so sick of all these loot crates; years ago when I learned that an Elder Scrolls MMO was being made, I imagined it could come out in so many different ways.
However I never expected that most of the updates for the game would just be constant store additions, at a certain point it becomes highly insulting to the customer.

I really don't expect ZOS or many people to take this seriously, but at a point some customers have to stand up an speak out against the practices that aren't only affecting this game, but MANY others.

I highly recommend that ZOS starts distancing themselves from this practice, it is only a matter of time before another company like EA draws enough media attention for this form of "soft-gambling" to be drawn into the public eye and begin to face regulation.

Apache_Kid

What boggles my mind is how it is legal to purchase crown crates in many states where it is illegal to gamble, open a casino, etc. It's only a matter of time before this stuff is going to be legislated against specifically by lawmakers.

ak_pvp

Its cosmetics and trash stuff only, don't cry. If it funds the game, and isn't P2W alls good, honestly one of the best business models out there, I mean the EA stuff is still there, things like BDO exist, but you ree about this?

I will say that the focuses on aspects this game is abysmal, and the fact that cosmetics get more resources dedicated to them than all of PvP is laughable. (I know they are different teams but they could definitely hire more for full PvP revamps on the levels of QOL updates like 1T and HS.)

IMO All proceeds from CCs should go solely towards balance and cyro. One can dream eh.

Qbiken

Hey, at least ZOS isn´t EA xD

TheBonesXXX

Everyone knew the quality of this game was going down the shitter from the start, the greater problem is that the entertainment industry is a plague in Western culture.

But its also the rampant consumerism, people aren't craftsmen anymore, they do not care about quality.

JD2013

It’s all cosmetic and you don’t need it to play. We could go back to a mandatory sub if you’d like? I’d be fine with that.

Kiralyn2000

Apache_Kid wrote: »

What boggles my mind is how it is legal to purchase crown crates in many states where it is illegal to gamble, open a casino, etc. It's only a matter of time before this stuff is going to be legislated against specifically by lawmakers.

In most legal systems, various "chance" things are considered to be different. So, gambling at a casino (real money wagered to get real money back, with a high chance to get nothing at all), is different than a grab bag (pay to pull something out of a prize pool), or a sweepstakes, or a door prize, or a raffle....

The majority of game loot boxes don't fit in the same category as casino gambling, because there's no chance of "nothing" (you might get something you don't want, but that's not "nothing"), nor are you receiving cash or real/physical goods.

----

As for the main topic... eh, one loot box every three months doesn't seem like "all these loot boxes". At least not compared to some games I've played, which have multiple ones available at a time and/or change them out monthly. Every three months is easy to ignore. Probably helps that I don't care about 99% of the stuff they've had in them yet.

Microtransactions in general... well, you're playing a game without a required sub. They're going to keep putting out costumes/dyes/mounts/etc so that they can make some money. Just the way it is. And like I said - compared to some of the games I've played, the cash shop here doesn't feel terribly intrusive. But that's just my opinion, so.... /shrug

Shardan4968

I don't like crown crates and I don't like gambling, but I prefer it instead of required subscription or P2W. So there's nothing to complain about, really.

THWIP71

JD2013 wrote: »

It’s all cosmetic and you don’t need it to play. We could go back to a mandatory sub if you’d like? I’d be fine with that.

No kidding....it would certainly weed out a ton of the people whining about frivolous crap.

Apache_Kid

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

What boggles my mind is how it is legal to purchase crown crates in many states where it is illegal to gamble, open a casino, etc. It's only a matter of time before this stuff is going to be legislated against specifically by lawmakers.

In most legal systems, various "chance" things are considered to be different. So, gambling at a casino (real money wagered to get real money back, with a high chance to get nothing at all), is different than a grab bag (pay to pull something out of a prize pool), or a sweepstakes, or a door prize, or a raffle....

The majority of game loot boxes don't fit in the same category as casino gambling, because there's no chance of "nothing" (you might get something you don't want, but that's not "nothing"), nor are you receiving cash or real/physical goods.

----

As for the main topic... eh, one loot box every three months doesn't seem like "all these loot boxes". At least not compared to some games I've played, which have multiple ones available at a time and/or change them out monthly. Every three months is easy to ignore. Probably helps that I don't care about 99% of the stuff they've had in them yet.

Microtransactions in general... well, you're playing a game without a required sub. They're going to keep putting out costumes/dyes/mounts/etc so that they can make some money. Just the way it is. And like I said - compared to some of the games I've played, the cash shop here doesn't feel terribly intrusive. But that's just my opinion, so.... /shrug

I see your point about how games always give you at least something. I don't see the distinction between physical versus non-physical in terms of the reward. You are still gambling for a chance to get something to own on your account that uses real money. I still stand by my point that we start to see legislation about this in the near-future.

Sygil05

I don't have any problem with the microtransactions in ESO - they're just superficial items that don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. I've been playing for quite a while without ever having purchased a crown crate, and I get by just fine with max CP, all traits researched, max speed/stam/carry on my horse, etc.

I see no way that I'm losing out or impacted by not purchasing the crown crates they're always pushing....

Darkstorne

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I don't like crown crates and I don't like gambling, but I prefer it instead of required subscription or P2W. So there's nothing to complain about, really.

There really is something to complain about. If they need to improve profits with microtransactions, that's fine. But show me what the cosmetic options are (no pay to win please), tell me the price, and if I like both I'll buy it. ZOS get more money, I get exactly the item/s I want, everyone wins. But whale hunting with loot crates just to maximise profits at the expense of upsetting the majority of your playerbase, and deliberately intending to exploit the minority of gamers who can't distinguish between "I have spare cash in the bank" and "this is good value for my spare cash", is not okay. No one should be defending this practice. Anyone who feels happier gambling for cosmetics instead of buying them directly and fairly is exactly the kind of person ZOS is preying on here.

Crown Store - absolutely fine
Crown Crates - disgusting business practice

Kiralyn2000

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I see your point about how games always give you at least something. I don't see the distinction between physical versus non-physical in terms of the reward.

There definitely needs to be some thought given to "digital goods" and how they relate to ownership, real property, and similar issues. (Of course, with the way software is moving towards "as a service" vs purchase, I can't see things clarifying any time soon. I wonder if it'll have to wait for the court case in 20+ years when someone sues because their dead parent can't bequeath their massive library of Steam/PSN/etc games.)


edit: oof, and think about the potential issues, if digital goods are given wider definitions, when an online game shuts down for good, and people try to sue over the $$$value of all their "property" within that game's servers. (Thinking about Marvel Heroes getting it's license pulled and having to disappear in another month or two. People on the forums posting about how they have $hundreds in characters & costumes. Whee.)

TheImpaler101K

I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR MY POOR GRAMMER AND SENTANCE STRUCTURE, I AM TYPING THIS OUT ON A MOBILE PHONE

I should clarify a few things.
1. I don't find microtransactions and loot crates inherently bad, in fact I think they have their place but that place should be right next to free to play games.
2. I would be perfectly fine with a subscription based game that allowed me to earn mounts and cosmetics through in game feats and grinds. WoW is a great example of this.
3. Since I mentioned Wow, many are going to say, "well go play that then." Well I can't, we don't live in a magical land where everyone has financial access to whatever gaming experience they would prefer. I'm lucky enough to have an Xbox, but that means that the only legitimant MMO I can have is ESO.
4. It doesn't matter that the store offers mostly cosmetics, sure it would be much worse if it was pay to win. However that doesn't really justify the fact that it still exist, it's still a form of soft gambling that plays upon its consumers.
There are many people with addictive personalities who are the true targets of this system, and yes, spending $100+ is their choice and their fault. It still raises concerns though for the direction the market is heading in, afterall things tend to grow bigger overtime. It wouldn't be surprising for companies like ZOS to offer consumers the chance to just purchase max level characters in another decade. Assuming things keep heading the direction they are.

Apache_Kid

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I see your point about how games always give you at least something. I don't see the distinction between physical versus non-physical in terms of the reward.

There definitely needs to be some thought given to "digital goods" and how they relate to ownership, real property, and similar issues. (Of course, with the way software is moving towards "as a service" vs purchase, I can't see things clarifying any time soon. I wonder if it'll have to wait for the court case in 20+ years when someone sues because their dead parent can't bequeath their massive library of Steam/PSN/etc games.)


edit: oof, and think about the potential issues, if digital goods are given wider definitions, when an online game shuts down for good, and people try to sue over the $$$value of all their "property" within that game's servers. (Thinking about Marvel Heroes getting it's license pulled and having to disappear in another month or two. People on the forums posting about how they have $hundreds in characters & costumes. Whee.)

Wow. You've definitely given me a lot to think about. But yeah you are right maybe it will not come to a tipping point as soon as I think.

Narvuntien

Mircotransactions make a lot of money. It is as simiple as that. I want the companies that make games I like to make money, so they can afford to make more content for me to enjoy.

Mircotransactions benefit two types of players tremendously.

First you have players (often younger) that have lots of time to play but are unlikely to have lots of cash, certinaly not able to pay for a subscription, and are often not willing to put up a lot of money upfront for a game.

Secondly you have players that have plenty of money, often this money comes from working hard so they lack time to play the game. They can turn thier money into game value. Thankfully ZoS has avoided "Pay to win" which alienates the first group from thier game. But people with money certainly like to display it with beautiful costumes and mounts. Its thier money if they want to spend it on RNG loot boxes its up to them.

Clearly there is an issue when people without a lot of money are spending thier money ineffeciently on RNG products.. because it feels good to win. That is both expected and unexpected. The whole game is a massive RNG box I'd of expected that they could get thier fix just playing the game... but they play this game so I guess they like RNG wheel spinning.

Mircotransactions help fund the game. When you have players without disposable incomes that get to come play this game for free because it is funded by people with plenty of spare money to spend. This is beneficial to both players. It can't be an MMO without players to play it.

Mircotransactions are the present and future of gaming when it is done well it is good for everyone.

TheBonesXXX

JD2013 wrote: »

It’s all cosmetic and you don’t need it to play. We could go back to a mandatory sub if you’d like? I’d be fine with that.

I WISH they would go back to mandatory sub and nix the Crown Store. Then consumers have the power of the wallet again.

Everstorm

Was reading this thread and suddenly I wondered...



Gambling?

agingerinohio

Servers, internet, paying employees, etc.....They have to continue making money someway to fund the further production of this game. People have a choice to not purchase these cosmetic items. ZOS is not bending anyone's arm.

TheBonesXXX

Darkstorne wrote: »

Shardan4968 wrote: »

I don't like crown crates and I don't like gambling, but I prefer it instead of required subscription or P2W. So there's nothing to complain about, really.

There really is something to complain about. If they need to improve profits with microtransactions, that's fine. But show me what the cosmetic options are (no pay to win please), tell me the price, and if I like both I'll buy it. ZOS get more money, I get exactly the item/s I want, everyone wins. But whale hunting with loot crates just to maximise profits at the expense of upsetting the majority of your playerbase, and deliberately intending to exploit the minority of gamers who can't distinguish between "I have spare cash in the bank" and "this is good value for my spare cash", is not okay. No one should be defending this practice. Anyone who feels happier gambling for cosmetics instead of buying them directly and fairly is exactly the kind of person ZOS is preying on here.

Crown Store - absolutely fine
Crown Crates - disgusting business practice

The result of the crown store shows that they create cosmetics that could have been put into an achievement for players who like that sort of stuff, content rewards.

It just demonstrates to me the priority of the company.

Everstorm

agingerinohio wrote: »

Servers, internet, paying employees, etc.....They have to continue making money someway to fund the further production of this game. People have a choice to not purchase these cosmetic items. ZOS is not bending anyone's arm.

Nobody is bending the arm of an alcoholic to get him to down another bottle.
I never cared for gambling but I've seen research that conclude that a weakness for gambling/addiction is a gene thing.
Anyway, I think it's a cheap trick to get people to spend more money.

Kiralyn2000

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

It’s all cosmetic and you don’t need it to play. We could go back to a mandatory sub if you’d like? I’d be fine with that.

I WISH they would go back to mandatory sub and nix the Crown Store. Then consumers have the power of the wallet again.

Alas, mandatory sub games these days still have stores with cosmetics, services (name change/etc), and other things. The companies have no reason to avoid a possible revenue source.

Farscape76

It is a game. Chill. Also there is this great concept called free enterprise... where people can vote with their wallets if they don't like something.

idk

Apache_Kid wrote: »

What boggles my mind is how it is legal to purchase crown crates in many states where it is illegal to gamble, open a casino, etc. It's only a matter of time before this stuff is going to be legislated against specifically by lawmakers.

We do not have a chance to win money which is the reason it's legal in states where gambling is not.

Basically, it's no different that a game of chance at the fair/carnival where you can win a stuffed toy.

Uriel_Nocturne

While I am -COMPLETELY- against these Scam Crates in ESO (and all games to be honest), ESO's Scam Crate push isn't -NEARLY- as bad as it is in Battlefront 2...

But yeah, the Scam Crates need to go, ZOS.

Yesterday.

Skwor

TheImpaler101K wrote: »

I'm getting so sick of all these loot crates; years ago when I learned that an Elder Scrolls MMO was being made, I imagined it could come out in so many different ways.
However I never expected that most of the updates for the game would just be constant store additions, at a certain point it becomes highly insulting to the customer.

I really don't expect ZOS or many people to take this seriously, but at a point some customers have to stand up an speak out against the practices that aren't only affecting this game, but MANY others.

I highly recommend that ZOS starts distancing themselves from this practice, it is only a matter of time before another company like EA draws enough media attention for this form of "soft-gambling" to be drawn into the public eye and begin to face regulation.

TheImpaler101K wrote: »

I'm getting so sick of all these loot crates; years ago when I learned that an Elder Scrolls MMO was being made, I imagined it could come out in so many different ways.
However I never expected that most of the updates for the game would just be constant store additions, at a certain point it becomes highly insulting to the customer.

I really don't expect ZOS or many people to take this seriously, but at a point some customers have to stand up an speak out against the practices that aren't only affecting this game, but MANY others.

I highly recommend that ZOS starts distancing themselves from this practice, it is only a matter of time before another company like EA draws enough media attention for this form of "soft-gambling" to be drawn into the public eye and begin to face regulation.

TheImpaler101K wrote: »

I'm getting so sick of all these loot crates; years ago when I learned that an Elder Scrolls MMO was being made, I imagined it could come out in so many different ways.
However I never expected that most of the updates for the game would just be constant store additions, at a certain point it becomes highly insulting to the customer.

I really don't expect ZOS or many people to take this seriously, but at a point some customers have to stand up an speak out against the practices that aren't only affecting this game, but MANY others.

I highly recommend that ZOS starts distancing themselves from this practice, it is only a matter of time before another company like EA draws enough media attention for this form of "soft-gambling" to be drawn into the public eye and begin to face regulation.

I am going to guess you have been living under a rock. This sort of market stradegy has been around for a long time now and it pays for the game, removing the need for subs.

Also unlike some other games TESO crates are for the most part cosmetic, whereas some other games are literally pay to win using this method. There really is nothing to complain about here and in fact you should be thrilled with how ZEN has implemented micro-transactions.

You should have seen the original Diablo 3 marketplace, talk about abusing and manipulating microtransactions... it got so bad and obvious they had to kill it.

OutLaw_Nynx

http://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-reveals-overwatch-loot-box-drop-rates-in-china/

We need this

PlagueSD

Everstorm wrote: »

Was reading this thread and suddenly I wondered...



Gambling?

I loved those as a kid. I'd always beg my parents for money so I could get them.

Farscape76

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

While I am -COMPLETELY- against these Scam Crates in ESO (and all games to be honest), ESO's Scam Crate push isn't -NEARLY- as bad as it is in Battlefront 2...

But yeah, the Scam Crates need to go, ZOS.

Yesterday.

This kind of thinking is just so skewed. You have the right to have any opinion you want on any topic, but guess what...so does everyone else.

People seem to jump to this "I don't like this xyz so no one should have it" type of thinking.

I don't have a strong opinion about crown crates either way, however they shouldn't be taken away from the people that like them just because you don't. Its the same thing as saying I don't like this show or this radio station. Turn the channel don't lobby to get the station taken off the air.

Kurkikohtaus

ak_pvp wrote: »

If it funds the game, and isn't P2W alls good, honestly one of the best business models out there, I mean the EA stuff is still there, things like BDO exist, but you ree about this?.

P2W is not the issue. The issue is that crown crates feed off of addictive impulses and the gambler’s fallacy and are therefore immoral business practices.

Uriel_Nocturne

Farscape76 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

While I am -COMPLETELY- against these Scam Crates in ESO (and all games to be honest), ESO's Scam Crate push isn't -NEARLY- as bad as it is in Battlefront 2...

But yeah, the Scam Crates need to go, ZOS.

Yesterday.

This kind of thinking is just so skewed. You have the right to have any opinion you want on any topic, but guess what...so does everyone else.

People seem to jump to this "I don't like this xyz so no one should have it" type of thinking.

I don't have a strong opinion about crown crates either way, however they shouldn't be taken away from the people that like them just because you don't. Its the same thing as saying I don't like this show or this radio station. Turn the channel don't lobby to get the station taken off the air.

I really don't understand why there is hurt in your butt over my comment.

I didn't call anyone out. I didn't trash on anyone's opinion. I didn't call any one stupid or ignorant.

I literally kept my comment to what you suggest in your reply to me.

I have an opinion that "I don't like the Scam Crates" and "I think all Loot Boxes are Scams", and I voiced my desire to see them leave the Gaming Industry as a whole.

Are you really such a fan of the Scam Crates, that when I voiced my opinion, you were personally offended by it? I mean, really, is this where we're *** at as a community??? O.o

Calm down, son.

I just voiced my opinion, and I was even nice enough to leave other people out of it (for once).